Sonic Forces Leaked / Spoilers Discussion

[Seeya]

Then let them prove so?

I do not understand why people are falling over themselves to shit on Utopia as if anything Sonic Team has crapped out is any better.

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People are falling all over themselves to crap on anything that isn't Utopia when there's still a lot to be worked out. when people talk about Utopia solving 3D Sonic they often cite the element that isn't being carried forward: the large wide horizontal playground level design

I think you're being unfair to what is basically a very early fan project. It's not a complete game. It's just a basic prototype and I think it has a ton of potential.

I love me some Boost Sonic but I would love to see what these guys could do with more time, help and money. The concept is very interesting.

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The thing Is that the project is ongoing, and as you said it is more of a proof of concept, but one of the core things that people LOVED about it isn't going to be replicated from a design perspective for the final game. I'm very optimistic about it, but it's not like they'veproven the concept workable yet in a 'finished' product.

 

[Seeya]

Dp

 

[RobFox64tm]

What's more surprising than this game being trash is how there are actually people surprised this game is trash.

Obviously, I haven't played it, so I shouldn't make any definitive statements, but if we're all being honest, the writing's been on the wall for this one for a while now. Sonic Mania did a great job of reminding us why we fell in love with Sonic games in the first place, but apparently, Sonic Team developers didn't bother playing it.

 

[Vadara]

The thing Is that the project is ongoing, and as you said it is more of a proof of concept, but one of the core things that people LOVED about it isn't going to be replicated from a design perspective for the final game. I'm very optimistic about it, but it's not like they've proven the concept workable yet in a 'finished' product.

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I see far more criticism of Utopia's wide open design, actually.

Like shit, I wont deny the demo level is a fucking mess, it's just a random jumble of weird little platforming challenges. But the CORE GAMEPLAY, the physics-based platforming, is there, and it's the closest anyone has ever gotten to replicating 2D Sonic physics in 3D. I would like to see some wide-open levels, but I feel that utopia, even with much more linear and condensed level design, will still be fun just from how strong the base mechanics are.

One of the main reasons Mario is fun, for instance, is because just plain moving Mario around feels good, regardless of the level design (which is consistently excellent anyway). Utopia feels the same way to me.

 

[Metto]

Honestly the fact that some regard Utopia as some savior of Sonic and that everything else is garbage is what put me off from Utopia initially. When I beat Mania and was appreciating what Classic Sonic was when I looked into Utopia and honestly I am impressed and it seems like a cool translation of Classic Sonic into 3D. It's just the cult like reverence that some people have with it that makes getting into Utopia a bit off putting because often times the first time you hear about it is when people go like "THIS HOW TRUE SONIC SHOULD BE FUCK EVERYTHING ELSE AND FUCK SONIC TEAM!!!"

 

[MrBadger]

Funny you should say that, I recall plenty of complaining about Generations' level selection being almost comprised entirely of tropical paradise, city, and factory tropes.

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That's true, but Forces looks has so many grey/chrome base type levels with no interesting visuals whatsoever. You can't deny that Rooftop Run, City Escape and Speed Highway all look completely different, as do Green Hill, Seaside Hill and Planet Wisp. And it doesn't help that the Green Hill and Destroyed City tropes that the rest of Forces consists of were already present in Generations. Forces also has a really small pool of enemies and while most of the Generations badniks were essentially for show, at least there was a large variety of them.

Forces does have one really cool level

Spoiler

where you're running around a Grand Metropolis looking place with Giant Kaiju-like Infinites and other weird visual trickery as well as Egg Gate which was already linked

and I wish there was more of that kind of thing.

Spoiler

Infinite's powers were wasted on this game.

 

[Mark1]

Utopia only has true potential if it is utilised well in a tight, linear fashion with Mania quality design. If done and Sega decide to let this become a full game.

I would not bother with anything Sonic related except for Classic (should Sega decide to continue this flawed Forces style route)

Edit: for the record I don't plan to buy this. Mania has given me my (great) Sonic fix. This doesn't look inspired, generic with only a flawed story going for it (although having Shadow back playable is exciting though)

 

[DeVeAn]

Oh man, I did not expect this level of awful. I haven't played the full game yet but I plan too. I was hoping Generations 2 with gross story ugh.

 

[Nali]

Then let them prove so?

I do not understand why people are falling over themselves to shit on Utopia as if anything Sonic Team has crapped out is any better.

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It's not the first neat looking 3D physics demo to hit the scene. The best one, probably, but these things have come and gone before without ever managing to produce any coherent game design. It's good that they're trying to get there, but I'll save my excitement for when they actually do.

 

[RROCKMAN]

The problem with your statement is that 3D Mario was allowed to be different because 2S Mario is basically the Ur-Platformer. It's the essence of platforming distilled down to its barest basics--run and jump on shit and platforms--because it basically WAS the first platformer. So much so that when ported to 3D, Nintendo deemed it wasn't fleshed out enough, so it switched gears to inventive exploration.

2D Sonic is different. It's a physics based platformer based around large organic worlds. It's like basically no other platformer out there, and it's a basic concept that I want to see explored in 3D, because no one out there, not even Sonic Team, does it.

I have fun in Adventure 1 just fucking around with the physics and trying to sequence break with well-timed spindashes and jumps, and those are janky as shit and the level design is pretty damn linear! I want to see that expanded upon.

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Then let them prove so?

I do not understand why people are falling over themselves to shit on Utopia as if anything Sonic Team has crapped out is any better.

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Dude why didnt you quote me? I missed this post entirely. And its fine to want that. I only took issue with your post initially cause it seemed like you were saying thats the only way to do Sonic in 3d, which I vehemently dissagreed with. I'm also personally looking forward to Utopia's approach because I'm also interested in how that plays out too. I cant speak for anyone else in that regard though, but know I'm not crapping all over Utopia.


Also I loved doing that in adventure 2 actually. Final Rush and Pyramid Cave were some my favorite stages because of how much you could skip with well timed spindash, jump and bounce moves.

Yeah, the level design in Classic Sonic games (save CD, which also happens to be a trainwreck design-wise) has always amounted to Path A, Path B, and maybe Path C. The difference is that those paths are blended together in a way that is difficult to recreate in 3D. Personally, I think that the Lost World engine combined with incredibly meticulous level design could pull it off.

Of course, a game whose levels take after Modern Seaside Hill would be close enough for me.

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Indeed, I loved how different that level could be. Just get rid of the random elements and keep the many brancing paths and It would be my dream game.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Some guy on eBay was selling his Switch copy for $33 and somehow no one had already snapped it up. Only took two days to get here too, I'm usually not this lucky.

From some comments I saw, apparently people's problems with the story had to do with the ending and not much being resolved? So far it's at least a vast improvement over the utter crap we got with Generations and Lost World's stories, Infinite is suitably edgy and Sonic actually has some good lines.

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That's a relief to hear about the story. Colors was extremely cringe inducing, and almost entirely absent in Generations. I didn't actually mind Lost World's but it felt like a total jumble of ideas. Looking forward to some entertaining edge with Forces!

Apparently, no one at Sonic Team wants to make a Sonic game anymore who would have thought.

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While interesting, I do wonder what they meant by the Avatar being the bigger focus here. Did they mean that there would simply be more gameplay real estate devoted to the Avatar or expanded gameplay ideas? Besides upping the "wispons" or customization features, I'm not sure how much more they could do. Perhaps there was a version where you could choose to join Shadow and Eggman or Sonic and Co. who are battling it out with eachother for a true amalgamation of competing "Forces" you must choose between.

In addition, I don't know how you arrived at the conclusion that no one at Sonic Team wants to make a Sonic game from this. If anything they were too ambitious with the concept and were only able to achieve a percentage of what they wanted.

 

[its_Ditz]

.

 

[Why would you do that?]

I'm not a Sonic fan, though I loved many of the games I played (Adventure 2, Rush, Colors, and now Mania are my favorites). Even still, I'm disappointed in how this game is turning out to be, and I can't imagine how it feels if you're a lifelong Sonic fan.

Spoiler

SEGA should have Nintendo make 3D Sonic, I mean, they did just release a game complete with spin dashing and "Jun Senoue" music, that people seem to like. :p

 

[Deleted member 2474]

I'm not a Sonic fan, though I loved many of the games I played (Adventure 2, Rush, Colors, and now Mania are my favorites). Even still, I'm disappointed in how this game is turning out to be, and I can't imagine how it feels if you're a lifelong Sonic fan.

Spoiler

SEGA should have Nintendo make 3D Sonic, I mean, they did just release a game complete with spin dashing and "Jun Senoue" music, that people seem to like. :p

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Wait, Senoue music?

EDIT: Ah, I assume by your quotes you just mean stylistically.

 

[Akalance]

Is that a loose bag of microwave popcorn in his bag?

 

[Why would you do that?]

Wait, Senoue music?

EDIT: Ah, I assume by your quotes you just mean stylistically.

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lol yeah I just edited in those quotes because I realized what I said could be misconstrued. Sorry about that!

 

[Monorojo]

So what is the general consensus?

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

oops, wrong thread!

 

[HMS_Pinafore]

So what is the general consensus?

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Sonic was never good.



Or at least Forces isn't good, and thats coming from people who like the previous boost games.

 

[K-Cube90]

What's more surprising than this game being trash is how there are actually people surprised this game is trash.

Obviously, I haven't played it, so I shouldn't make any definitive statements, but if we're all being honest, the writing's been on the wall for this one for a while now. Sonic Mania did a great job of reminding us why we fell in love with Sonic games in the first place, but apparently, Sonic Team developers didn't bother playing it.

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I played the demo that was on the switch and its not looking good. I will still get the game just to see if I was wrong.

 

[AAMARMO]

Completed today it took me 4 hours. It feels unfinished :(

 

[Deleted member 5127]

Completed today it took me 4 hours. It feels unfinished :(

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Damn that's short.

Just started playing it myself, and I'm a bit surprised, the engine seems to be improved, Sonic controls better. And they added the new move from Sonic Mania to classic Sonic, pretty cool.


EDIT: Well, the first boss might just be the worst boss in Sonic's history, the green homing target just isn't showing up for me anymore, been at it for almost an hour....

 

[Camjo-Z]

EDIT: Well, the first boss might just be the worst boss in Sonic's history, the green homing target just isn't showing up for me anymore, been at it for almost an hour....

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Uh... that boss took me two and a half minutes. Are you jumping when he smashes the ground? Because you're supposed to stay still and let him bounce you up.

Edit: Unrelated but I absolutely love the song that plays in the second part of Modern Sonic's Chemical Plant. I need the OST released NOW!

 

[Deleted member 5127]

Uh... that boss took me two and a half minutes. Are you jumping when he smashes the ground? Because you're supposed to stay still and let him bounce you up.

Edit: Unrelated but I absolutely love the song that plays in the second part of Modern Sonic's Chemical Plant. I need the OST released NOW!

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I just figured that out on accident. Yeah, I was jumping the whole time and didn't understand why I couldn't reach him. Just finished the jungle casino level, this game reminds me of Sonic Colours.

 

[Meowmixez]

So what is the concensus view?

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

Completed today it took me 4 hours. It feels unfinished :(

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Good. Hopefully that's because they stopped working on it partway through development and are already working on their actual new Sonic game which happens to actually be good.

 

[The Almighty Tria]

I am getting the game, I don't give a fuck. No way it can be as bad as Sonic Adventure 1/2 and Sonic 06.

 

[The Archon]

Already seen some stuff on Youtube. Sonic kisses a human again in this one. It's pretty lingering too.

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I hope you're trolling us. SEGA can't be this stupid. I refuse to believe this.

 

[Camjo-Z]

Completed today it took me 4 hours. It feels unfinished :(

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Well, the day 1 patch adds Shadow and Super Sonic, so technically it is unfinished.

So what is the consensus view?

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Objectively speaking, the worst you can really say about it is that the gameplay is simpler and more on-rails/automated than Generations was. If that sounds bad to you, avoid. If it doesn't bother you, it's worth playing.

I hope you're trolling us. SEGA can't be this stupid. I refuse to believe this.

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He's trolling, Sonic doesn't kiss a human in Forces.

He kisses Big the Cat.

 

[slasherjpc]

Well, the day 1 patch adds Shadow and Super Sonic, so technically it is unfinished.

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Are these free for everyone?

 

[Camjo-Z]

Are these free for everyone?

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Shadow, yes. They haven't officially said anything about Super Sonic but I assume he'll also be free, would be weird to make people pay for that.

 

[RROCKMAN]

Wait, Super Sonic is a patch?


D:

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Well, the day 1 patch adds Shadow and Super Sonic, so technically it is unfinished.



Objectively speaking, the worst you can really say about it is that the gameplay is simpler and more on-rails/automated than Generations was. If that sounds bad to you, avoid. If it doesn't bother you, it's worth playing.



He's trolling, Sonic doesn't kiss a human in Forces.

He kisses Big the Cat.

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How has the post-game content been? Have you pretty much unlocked all of the accessories for the avatar stuff?

 

[TheOGB]

The Chaos Emeralds aren't even part of the story this time, right? I bet the Red Rings must unlock Super Sonic then.

 

[AAMARMO]

So is the Shadow DLC code working now?

Also, Ring recovery is a patch lol.

 

[Camjo-Z]

How has the post-game content been? Have you pretty much unlocked all of the accessories for the avatar stuff?

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I've been trying not to play too much since I don't want to 100% everything before the day 1 patch, but basically the post game content is:

- 5 Red Rings, Number Rings, and Silver Moon Rings to find in every stage. You have to find all the Red Rings before the Number Rings will appear, and so on.
- Secret and Extra stages, which are 2D-only Modern Sonic/Avatar levels themed around a specific gimmick such as rotating lasers or exploding blocks. I've unlocked 9 so far but I think there are 13 total.
- A crap ton of Avatar parts to unlock by doing missions, I'm not even close to getting them all. Early on they're all easy ones like "Quick Step in a Modern Sonic stage" or "Spin Attack in Stage 13" but there are also plenty for getting S ranks, beating stages in a certain amount of time, and getting medals with every Avatar species (which basically means replaying stages a lot to get XP, although you don't have to specifically play Avatar stages to do it.)

Also, Ring recovery is a patch lol.

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The fact that the Hedgehog Avatar has the traditional ring recovery system as its special ability suggests to me that they just intentionally didn't do it for the other characters as an attempt to increase the difficulty (which, considering there aren't even lives anymore, I can kind of understand). Still, it's too iconic to just ditch completely IMO.

 

[TheOGB]

Also, Ring recovery is a patch lol.

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Just like 100 rings for a 1up was a patch for Lost World... smdh

I don't want to automatically assume these decisions came from the same person, but if they did, they need to chill

 

[AAMARMO]

Just like 100 rings for a 1up was a patch for Lost World... smdh

I don't want to automatically assume these decisions came from the same person, but if they did, they need to chill

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Nah classic sonic style when get hit you can recover them

 

[TheOGB]

Nah classic sonic style when get hit you can recover them

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Right, Modern Sonic didn't have that at first but it was patched in, correct? I was noting how they did something similar with another ring mechanic in Lost World.

 

[Seeya]

Well, the day 1 patch adds Shadow and Super Sonic, so technically it is unfinished.



Objectively speaking, the worst you can really say about it is that the gameplay is simpler and more on-rails/automated than Generations was. If that sounds bad to you, avoid. If it doesn't bother you, it's worth playing.



He's trolling, Sonic doesn't kiss a human in Forces.

He kisses Big the Cat.

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Going back to Generations recently, it has so much jank with both modern and classic Sonic, because the SECOND it stops being on rails or propelled by a boost fest, or easy/obvious/linear in requiring a certain ability or quick reaction to reach a high place, the terrible physics movement and controls reck everything. Colors was a lot better in that regard because it never tried to reach beyond its limitations and instead focused on fun twists within that framework. If forces is more like Colors (minus good wisp intogration so I hear) I might still pick it up at the low price.

 

[Seeya]

It's not the first neat looking 3D physics demo to hit the scene. The best one, probably, but these things have come and gone before without ever managing to produce any coherent game design. It's good that they're trying to get there, but I'll save my excitement for when they actually do.

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This is exactly what I was trying to say earlier in the thread. Given how it controls based on the demo so far, they have a lot of work to do in my opinion to reach that lofty goal. It's one thing to make a fun sandbox it's another to refine the gameplay around it and create full game design. That's why I said that elements of Utopia are perfect for 3D Sonic but not necessarily Utopia itself

 

[Vadara]

This is exactly what I was trying to say earlier in the thread. Given how it controls based on the demo so far, they have a lot of work to do in my opinion to reach that lofty goal. It's one thing to make a fun sandbox it's another to refine the gameplay around it and create full game design. That's why I said that elements of Utopia are perfect for 3D Sonic but not necessarily Utopia itself

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The problem with this is that you haven't seen Utopia. You've seen a demo testbed for the physics, but the actual levels in Utopia won't look like the Green Hill demo, they'll be much less chaotic and sprawling.

 

[chip123]

Got the game earlier today and beat the story in about 3 hours. Only time i was enjoying it were the modern Sonic stages, everything else was just kinda bland.

 

[Camjo-Z]

Going back to Generations recently, it has so much jank with both modern and classic Sonic, because the SECOND it stops being on rails or propelled by a boost fest, or easy/obvious/linear in requiring a certain ability or quick reaction to reach a high place, the terrible physics movement and controls reck everything. Colors was a lot better in that regard because it never tried to reach beyond its limitations and instead focused on fun twists within that framework. If forces is more like Colors (minus good wisp intogration so I hear) I might still pick it up at the low price.

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Honestly I agree, my least favorite parts of Generations were the more open sections of stages like Seaside Hill and Crisis City where they thought for some reason Modern Sonic controls well in 3D. If it weren't for Forces' levels being noticeably shorter and easier than those of Colors and Generations I'd have no problem putting it in the same league, as it stands I have to rank it just a bit lower for not being quite as ambitious.

 

[Seeya]

The problem with this is that you haven't seen Utopia. You've seen a demo testbed for the physics, but the actual levels in Utopia won't look like the Green Hill demo, they'll be much less chaotic and sprawling.

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Right but by that same statement it's also too early to declare it to be goslpel of Sonic game design. That Utopia specifically is the only acceptable path forward. When people say that I think that they are really referring to the mechanics of momentum, jumping, and angles, and like was said earlier it is not the first promissing demo of its type to hit the fan scene.

My issue being that the physics set and controls only work well enough at present because of the sprawling environment. I do think that it is among the best testiness so far, but it has a lot to prove/refine to say that Utopia is the only acceptable future for Sonic.

It's too early one way or another. The CONCEPTS in Utopia are worth perusing however, 100%

Besides, SRB2 is getting slopes and refined Physics, maybe it will be our great saviour. :P

And real talk: Utopias demo is just a modern rebuild of SRB2 anyway :p

 

[Deleted member 5127]

Just finished the final boss, I'll type up some of my impressions.

The good stuff:

• The game is absolutely stunning, it comes pretty close to that Disney/Pixar look, modern Sonic looks better than ever, even better than classic Sonic.
  
• Smooth 60fps.
  
• Modern Sonic is fun to play and control, he's not as slippery when he's at slow speed compared to the previous boost games, good to see them improving on that.
• The avatar has a lot of customisation available, they remind me of characters from the TV show, it's pretty cute.

The bad stuff:

• As stunning as the games look, at times it's a visual mess with stuff flying at you, but it blends in with the background so you can't catch it and react properly.
• All the levels look pretty similar, they're mostly mechanical, the only exceptions are Green Hill, the casino/jungle level and the city level.
  
• Classic Sonic controls like a brick, he is super heavy for some reason, I don't know if Generations was like this as well, or if my mind is comparing it to the more recent Mania, but it's just really bad, to the point that I preferred the avatar over classic Sonic.
• The avatar gameplay is... meh, he/she's basically modern Sonic, without the boost, with a slower homing attack, and some basic attacks like throwing fire. What's the point of all the fun customisation if it's so boring to actually play it?
• The level design is very blocky, simple and uninspired. Way more on rails stuff than previous games as well. The level design is the closest to Colours, but it's weaker as well.
  
• All levels end after like 2 minutes.
• The bosses were pretty bad IMO, most of them use these red blocks to attack, if you touch the blocks you get transported to an alternate universe or whatever it is.... everything there is red and full of obstacles flying around. After 5 seconds you get back, it's really annoying to the eyes, and none of the obstacles really stand out what with everything being one colour, it's just annoying.
• The music.... I don't know how to describe it. It's nothing abysmal, it's just there. It's kind of like NSMB: The Sonic version. Not one track is memorable. To top it off, final death egg from S3&K is in this, but it uses random casino-esque music... why? Metropolis from Sonic Heroes is in this as well, but it uses some generic Sonic 4 esque track.... again why? You can't even mute the music to put on some decent Sonic music via Spotify.
• The game sort of just ends at a point where it feels like you barely touched half of the game, and you're left feeling like you never really got proper time to play as any of the three characters.
• Chaos is in one tiny, tiny scene with Tails and you never see him again or fight him.
• There was a lot less modern/boost Sonic in this than previous games.

Ultimately, it just left me feeling numb, Sonic 2006 might have lower lows, but it has higher highs as well, I had more fun playing that. This is just a realIy boring game and I don't care enought to go back to it, I'll check out the Shadow stuff when that's out, but that's it.

Hire some frickin level designers Sega.

 

[Kouriozan]

Sonic is Sega's icon and yet, they seem like they don't care about the quality of it, really baffling.
I finished (and then 100%ed) Sonic Lost World super quick I didn't feel like I got my money worth and people tell me Forces is even shorter, how is this possible.

 

[Bog]

Saw this for all the consoles at Toys R Us earlier. Didn't bother getting it, though. Because, I mean...

 

[Seeya]

Sonic is Sega's icon and yet, they seem like they don't care about the quality of it, really baffling.
I finished (and then 100%ed) Sonic Lost World super quick I didn't feel like I got my money worth and people tell me Forces is even shorter, how is this possible.

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Sega typically gives the games somewhat modest budgets (with Unleashed being an exception, but it has been used as a foundation for years now), but even then it seems like a lot of that money goes to cgi/assets/tech, not leaving a lot left over for paying employees or time.

COLORS 10 million
BOOM 20 million
LOST WORLD 20 million

After Sonic 06 a lot of the people behind unleashed were new. But making nothing but Sonic games endlessly probably leads to burnout. The situation compounds when sega turns to a probably understaffed and unhappy Sonic Team and goes 'figure out what comes after boost gameplay'

 

[Camjo-Z]

The music.... I don't know how to describe it. It's nothing abysmal, it's just there. It's kind of like NSMB: The Sonic version. Not one track is memorable. To top it off, final death egg from S3&K is in this, but it uses random casino-esque music... why? Metropolis from Sonic Heroes is in this as well, but it uses some generic Sonic 4 esque track.... again why? You can't even mute the music to put on some decent Sonic music via Spotify.

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Whoa now, there are opinions and then there's just being factually incorrect. Park Avenue, Sunset Heights, Aqua Road, Network Terminal - Forces tunes are most definitely going to be brought up in "awesome Sonic music" discussions for years to come.