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TSSZNews

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
663
I just had an insane thought on the one thing they could have done to make Forces way better.

After you first complete the game, you can go back and play the stages Eggman wrecked in a somewhat remixed, postwar rebuilding, "good future" style mode. It wouldn't quite be a utopia--there'd still be enough dilapidation and disrepair to know rebuilding was still in progress--but everything would look brighter, livelier, and more hopeful, and the updated layouts and objectives would better reflect, say, the style of Generations, rather than just giving half the robots rapid-fire guns.

Instead of Green Hill's sandy beaches, you'd get something closer to the environment seen in Generations. Instead of a city on fire, you'd get something like a Spagonia from Unleashed that's under construction (and would've opened the door for a new level gimmick or two, maybe.) Instead of the drab nighttime of Casino Forest, it's a playful daytime environment that better explores the idea of the entire stage being a giant water slide/playland and fixing the controls there.

Chemical Plant could become a biodome. Metropolis could look like a 3D form of Metallic Madness's Good Future (it sort of does now, I guess?)

It wouldn't work for every little thing, and it certainly would not fix or forgive the other glaring issues Forces has, but I would have been way more engaged knowing that was a potential payoff, rather than just "Oh hey, you'll get to play Super Sonic again down the line, I guess, maybe..."
 

Professor Beef

Official ResetEra™ Chao Puncher
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,501
The Digital World
I just had an insane thought on the one thing they could have done to make Forces way better.

After you first complete the game, you can go back and play the stages Eggman wrecked in a somewhat remixed, postwar rebuilding, "good future" style mode. It wouldn't quite be a utopia--there'd still be enough dilapidation and disrepair to know rebuilding was still in progress--but everything would look brighter, livelier, and more hopeful, and the updated layouts and objectives would better reflect, say, the style of Generations, rather than just giving half the robots rapid-fire guns.

Instead of Green Hill's sandy beaches, you'd get something closer to the environment seen in Generations. Instead of a city on fire, you'd get something like a Spagonia from Unleashed that's under construction (and would've opened the door for a new level gimmick or two, maybe.) Instead of the drab nighttime of Casino Forest, it's a playful daytime environment that better explores the idea of the entire stage being a giant water slide/playland and fixing the controls there.

Chemical Plant could become a biodome. Metropolis could look like a 3D form of Metallic Madness's Good Future (it sort of does now, I guess?)

It wouldn't work for every little thing, and it certainly would not fix or forgive the other glaring issues Forces has, but I would have been way more engaged knowing that was a potential payoff, rather than just "Oh hey, you'll get to play Super Sonic again down the line, I guess, maybe..."
That would actually be pretty damn nice.
 

memoryman3

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,146
I just had an insane thought on the one thing they could have done to make Forces way better.

After you first complete the game, you can go back and play the stages Eggman wrecked in a somewhat remixed, postwar rebuilding, "good future" style mode. It wouldn't quite be a utopia--there'd still be enough dilapidation and disrepair to know rebuilding was still in progress--but everything would look brighter, livelier, and more hopeful, and the updated layouts and objectives would better reflect, say, the style of Generations, rather than just giving half the robots rapid-fire guns.

Instead of Green Hill's sandy beaches, you'd get something closer to the environment seen in Generations. Instead of a city on fire, you'd get something like a Spagonia from Unleashed that's under construction (and would've opened the door for a new level gimmick or two, maybe.) Instead of the drab nighttime of Casino Forest, it's a playful daytime environment that better explores the idea of the entire stage being a giant water slide/playland and fixing the controls there.

Chemical Plant could become a biodome. Metropolis could look like a 3D form of Metallic Madness's Good Future (it sort of does now, I guess?)

It wouldn't work for every little thing, and it certainly would not fix or forgive the other glaring issues Forces has, but I would have been way more engaged knowing that was a potential payoff, rather than just "Oh hey, you'll get to play Super Sonic again down the line, I guess, maybe..."

I like that Mario Odyssey actually does world peace correctly in this manner .
 

Dooble

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,469
I don't think the setting of the game wasn't as well realized as it could have been. Only the City stage gives off the dystopian vibe.
 
Oct 26, 2017
13,610
Finally bought the Switch version today. I must say, Sega did a legit great job on the port. It looks very pretty. My only complaint visually is how compressed the cutscenes look, as if they are just pre-recorded (like Unleashed Wii's were).

It's kind of fun too. I actually don't hate the avatar at all. The collecting of the clothes and whatnot's really neat, keeps you guessing what you'll get.

I'll review this likely after beating the story which is supposed to be short, so I'll go in full detail then.

Despite what I've said before, which I take back a lot of, it feels like legit effort went into this.
 

Ranmo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
280
Just beat the game the other night, here is my two cents.

I legit had a blast playing the Avatar stages I just wish they went the Colors route and had wisp ammo or something as power ups. So that you didn't have to commit to one type of power. Levels were nothing to write home about and I was left wanting more the most due to me having the most fun as the Avatar. I think the pacing in these stages felt nice. It had a colors vibe going with it. Even using the grappling hook to drift was reminiscent of Colors due to it being more of a limited use power up in that game.

As basic as the Modern Sonic stages are they were fun, however that jump is way too momentum driven in this game. It's why all the 2D portions feel like garbage when it wants you to do platforming. in the previous boost games you were able to turn a jump into the opposite direction as Modern, and in this game you either commit to a direction or kind of (but not really) hit the breaks, and man. People were not joking by saying it was all Green Hill. I felt this the most as Modern. I had fun when it worked but his stages go by so fast. Also, his particle effects looked fantastic in this game.

Classic Sonic wasn't as bad as I was reading, but again the simple level design, jump physics, Mania as a comparison and lackluster particle effects did not help. I liked how the drop dash felt and was also left wanting more during these stages. If the level design was stronger, physics aside Classic could have been a overall great segment of the game.

Bosses outside of two Infinite fights were fantastic. They were easy but they were enjoyable. A lot like Mario boss fights. I enjoyed Zavok, Infinite's first Modern fight and the last boss the most.

It's a flawed game that needed physics tweaks and level designers with more experience behind the wheel but I'd lie if I said I did not have fun.
 

Boogiepop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,966
Man... what happened here? Just beat the game, and like... it's just kind of blatantly rushed out the door, huh? Classic Sonic is the most obvious bit as he feels super shoe-horned in, right down to his stages looking visably way worse, and frankly just plain feeling bad. And then there's the fact that the level design... just seems to be absent. Like, THIS is the Sonic game that makes the "you just run forward" complaints often falsely thrown at the series true. It's just... plain. But then... you have the whole "villain team-up" push, and they couldn't even throw in token boss fights against all of them? Seriously?

Oh, and yeah, locking wisps to your weapon for the stage is just plain baffling poor design. Also, 2D Modern Sonic physics are just plain crap. And heck, can't even jam in
Super Sonic for the final boss... or butt rock for it, even though the game is jam packed with questionable songs with lyrics otherwise!

I liked the pure stupidity of the character creator though, and had fun laughing at my dumb creations there. And I do feel bad for the people doing the modern stage art design, as that seemed fairly on point... but everything around it was just... not great.

The funny thing is, it actually isn't busted like most bad Sonic games. Like, the only real glitch I encountered was once I launched from a boost pad or something and was moving forward with the animation being locked to standing up. And the game doesn't play well with boosting a lot of when it looks like it should, but that's more level design. But outside of that, it functions. It's just terribly deprived of content, mixed with some poor design decisions. So it largely functions and generally isn't offensive. It just... isn't very interesting at all either.

So yeah, seriously... what happened? Outside of maybe 06, this thing feels more rushed than probably any other Sonic Team game to me, but... wasn't this supposed to be the one where they were "taking their time" on it?
 

Deleted member 5745

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,429
So I'm a few stages away from the end (I think 4?) and honestly I'm just ready to be done with it. I'm pretty disappointed. I really don't even feel like trying to get all S ranks or all red rings (and I'm one of the crazy ones that got all S ranks in Sonic's stages in Sonic 06).

Honestly everything just feels meh. I think maybe the only stage I really liked was that first Avatar stage on the Death Egg, and Sonic's first fight against Infinite. Avatar gameplay isn't too bad, but my god what did they do to Classic Sonic? Was this really the same team as Generations? And the Modern stages feel like Sonic Team went "They always say boost to win? That's what we'll do!". The level design is just utterly forgettable.

Though I still unashamedly love the vocal tracks.
 
Nov 9, 2017
1,472
Réunion
I finished the game, and almost entirely I must say (1 achivement missing). And for me, it's a 5/10. Not bad, not good, just mediocre.

I have written a review of the game in french, and with the help of Google Translate, I have chosen to translate it in english. It's quite lenghty.

For those in a hurry, Sonic Forces is average. Essentially it's not a bad game, it's just an average game, a kind of "movie B" video game. But the problem lies in what's around it.

First, I must emphasize one point that has been little discussed: Sonic Forces is ugly. Not graphically per se, because it is rather average. No, artistically ugly, especially for a Sonic game. In fact, it's like its title screen: hideous and uninspired. Personally, I played Sonic 1, 2, 3, & Knucles, Generations, I did three or four levels of the first Adventure, and I stopped CD from the second stage. And of all these games, Forces is definitely the ugliest, except for maybe CD. In fact, the game is either dim, dark, or bland, or all three at once.

The fault comes from its color code and artistic direction. To seems mature, the game will lean towards the black and red in the menus, sometimes in the stages, and especially it will serve us an industrial complex theme on three quarters of the adventure. And when it does not, it's anecdotal (Green Hill industrialized, or the stage forest + casino). In fact, the only stage that is a bit good is a white futuristic city, named Metropolis (which has absolutely nothing to do with the stage of the same name in Sonic 2, by the way).

Then, we must add that the game is annoying (and ridiculous?). Annoying because of the different characters who keep talking by radio during the game. Fortunately, it is possible to disable it. I would also like to say that the game is ridiculous because of its story, in fact, I'd love to say it, but since the cinematic sequences stutters on PC, I was forced to zap them all.

But besides these aesthetic considerations, what about the game? Mouif. Yeah. Bof. Or "meh" as the Anglo-Saxons say. Because the game really is average.

First, Forces offers different types of stages. Those with modern Sonic, which mix both 2D and 3D. Those with the avatar, again mixing 2D and 3D. Stages with modern Sonic + avatar are only in 3D. And finally, those with classic Sonic are only in 2D.

Because yes, it is now possible to create your own avatar, your "fursona" as they say on the english forums. It will therefore be necessary to choose among different species (dog, wolf, rabbit, cat, bear, bird, and of course hedgehog), each with its own capacity. For example, birds can perform double jumps. Alas, the avatars are rather hideous.

The lack of choice of morphology makes them all tall and thin. Moreover, they do not have visible "bellies", just like Sonic with his visible yellow belly, Tails has his white hairs visible on his chest, or Knucles a white crescent on his chest. The absence of this small detail tends to distance the avatars from the canonical characters of the Sonic universe. But the large number of pieces of equipment allows them to be used as a cache-misère.

Gameplay wise, Sonic Forces is playable, even nice in 3D, when it does not send the player in a hole. Which will be the first cause of death in Forces in the 3D phases. Because the player will fall a lot in precipices. But when that does not happen, the game is pleasant. Alas, half of the game, even three quarters of it are in 2D.

With Sonic Mania being released a few months before, it is possible to compare the gameplay in the 2D phases between the two games, and the comparison is not in favor of Forces. Indeed, the characters are heavy, fall too fast and accelerate much too fast. It's simple, just like for 3D, the player will fall into holes, but the reason here comes from the gameplay. Successful jumps will require training, and it will not be surprising to jump further than a platform, or even fall just before one, because of the weird physics of the characters (on this subject, good luck to those who will try to defeat three, then five enemies in a row by jumping on them with classic Sonic).

Strangely, the least painful character to control in 2D passages is modern Sonic, while the one that poses the most problem is classic Sonic. The avatar meanwhile will play a lot more like classic Sonic. In short, the 2D in Forces is a complete failure. And to be honest, just like for Generations, I preferred to control modern Sonic rather than its classic version. Still, my favorite episodes are the Megadrive versions, but Forces just like Generations would have been better with only the newest Sonic in my opinion.

Nevertheless, one of the brightest ideas of the Sonic Team for this Sonic Forces has been to introduce QTE in some stages. This is a decision of great intelligence and it shows a great knowledge of modern video games. LOL. Indeed, while the QTE become increasingly rare, the Sonic Team had the strange idea to introduce them in its latest delivery, furthermore a platformer. There is not much to say here, they are QTE, basically time wasters. Fortunately, they are not numerous (in three stages, if I'm not wrong). Unfortunately, on my PC, they run half as fast as the rest of the game, with half less FPS, while their sound effects go to normal speed. Sigh...

For the level design, on the 2D side, again Mania is well above Forces. Indeed, stages are denser, richer, and with a lot more of secrets. That said, Forces is not totally bad. It proposes several paths to reach the end, and some of them are sometimes well hidden. In the 3D phases, sometimes, it goes in a straight line. Ok. In fact, it very often goes in a straight line. But sometimes, the game offers junctions here and there that will more or less shorten the path. But on the whole, these phases are quite linear. The fault may lies in the "boost system" that does not really mixed well with open stages.

As for the music, it is sometimes good (Prison Hall or Aqua Road), sometimes bad (Green Hill with Sonic classic) and sometimes comical (orchestral music in a general way). It should be noted that there are a lot of songs in this episode. Coming from the Megadrive games, this surprised me a bit initially, but some of them are very nice, despite the somber lyrics.

But Forces' best argument does not lie in its avatar creation system, wich is quite limited in the end, but in its content. For Forces is generous, and for those who would like to finish the game at 100%, there will be a lot to do (count about thirty hours to finish it entirely).

Each stage can be finished in a straight line. But for the perfectionists, it will first be necessary to obtain the S rank, then to find the red rings, then the rings with numbers, then the silver moon rings, and finally to finish the stages in a limited time. And that, for each stage. Then there are the secret stages, and finally the EX stage. To this, we must also add the missions, which will ask the player to perform certain actions with certain character, such as defeat three enemies in a row with a spin dash with classic Sonic. Doing all this will unlock pieces of equipment or wispons for his avatar, ie weapons, with the rarer ones comind with bonus effects.

Fulfilling some of those objectives will often require the player to repeat each stage several times, but nothing should be really insurmountable. However, some passages may prove to be particularly annoying.

This was the case when obtaining two specific red rings. The first in a stage that takes place in space, Egg Gate, where modern Sonic has to go on a rail that is on the left (a minimum of 15 deaths to reach it). The second problematic red ring is in the forest stage when playing with the avatar, Aqua Road. Here, the player is in a sort of toboggan ... and it will be necessary to retry the stage at least twenty times to obtain one of the red rings. We can also add to the list of annoying events finishing some stages in a limited time, especially the boss fights (a tip, go directly to Youtube for a easier play).

In the end, what to think about Forces? Many people, including me, were waiting for a sequel to Generations. Sonic Team chose instead to do something else, something ... weird. For having followed the news of the game, I know that some appreciate the serious and dark side chosen for this game. I also know that those who appreciate this kind of atmosphere have often discovered Sonic with the Dreamcast, and more particularly with games like Sonic Adventure 2 or Shadow the Hedgehog. Forces, more than a sequel to Generations, is from my point of view a sequel to these games. Those who liked these atmospheres will enjoy playing Forces. Maybe. For others, this is not an atrocious game, just a mediocre game with a multitude of problems.
 
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TheBeardedOne

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,189
Derry
Never been much of a Sonic fan, outside of some fun as a kid when I played them with friends. For some reason, the series has never really clicked with me like Mario or Banjo or whatnot.

That said, this game is available at the library and I placed a hold on it in case I decided to play it. Is it worth playing for free, or will I hate myself for picking it up since I'm not a big Sonic person? I know this may come off as a dumb question, but I'm honestly torn. Also, how long is it?
 

Ghost_Messiah

Member
Oct 27, 2017
637
First Sonic game in decades I haven't bought day one. Too many negative impressions. Seems like a solid 5/10 game which for Sonic is just not good enough, particularly after Mania.

Might wait for a price drop or something, then give it a spin. IMO Sonic Team needs a break to work on something different Burning Rangers style. They seem burnt out.
 
Oct 27, 2017
936
So I bought the game yesterday and beat it in like 3 hours or less. I don't want to repeat the gameplay complaints that no doubt litter this thread, but I will say that the plot in this game and the marketing around it is so absurdly undercooked and misrepresentative that I'm definitely in the 'this was not the game they wanted to put out' camp.

Put aside the fact that trying to tell a war story with hedgehogs and bunny rabbits and a person who is referred to as 'Eggman' is an inherently laughable and silly premise, and the fact that the writing in these games has almost always been abysmal. How, exactly, were the stakes raised in this game other than the fact that the characters insist that they've been raised? They say Eggman's conquered the world, but I don't see how that manifests in this game any more than, say, Sonic Heroes or Sonic Unleashed, where he also had robots and bases all over the place. If anything, because you keep running through the same places over and over again, the scope of the threat actually feels smaller than most of the other games.

The game refers to your group as a 'rag-tag resistance', but they're the same exact cast that has always been pushing Eggman's shit in with much less melodrama. I know there is a larger resistance assembly around, but you only ever see them do anything exactly once, and most of the time they're complaining that they're getting their asses kicked and that it's all up to you.
The big 'war' sequence near the end is closest the game comes to selling the supposed scope of its plot, but honestly it just opens up even more holes. If the copies Infinite makes are all 'just as strong as the originals', as Shadow says, then how tf isn't Eggman wiping everyone out. There were like hundreds of Shadows in that cutscene, you'd think that alone would be enough, yet they do nothing but just stand there. I might have missed something, but it was so fucking stupid.

My point is, this game might be the ultimate example of a 'tell and not show' plot. Nothing in this game's presentation actually sells the threat of an Eggman Empire or its implications on the world, and the fact that the most interesting stuff is brushed over with plain white text on a black background makes this game's total lack of faith in its own plot even more egregious. Sonic is still a smarmy little shit despite being a POW (lol), and Eggman still comes off as a buffoon who still wanders around doing not much of anything in some cutscenes despite him supposedly having an empire to run.
 
Oct 26, 2017
13,610
Anyone with the Switch version see white lines in the pre-recorded cutscenes like this?

sonic8uor8.png
 

Sub Boss

Banned
Nov 14, 2017
13,441
So I bought the game yesterday and beat it in like 3 hours or less. I don't want to repeat the gameplay complaints that no doubt litter this thread, but I will say that the plot in this game and the marketing around it is so absurdly undercooked and misrepresentative that I'm definitely in the 'this was not the game they wanted to put out' camp.

Put aside the fact that trying to tell a war story with hedgehogs and bunny rabbits and a person who is referred to as 'Eggman' is an inherently laughable and silly premise, and the fact that the writing in these games has almost always been abysmal. How, exactly, were the stakes raised in this game other than the fact that the characters insist that they've been raised? They say Eggman's conquered the world, but I don't see how that manifests in this game any more than, say, Sonic Heroes or Sonic Unleashed, where he also had robots and bases all over the place. If anything, because you keep running through the same places over and over again, the scope of the threat actually feels smaller than most of the other games.

The game refers to your group as a 'rag-tag resistance', but they're the same exact cast that has always been pushing Eggman's shit in with much less melodrama. I know there is a larger resistance assembly around, but you only ever see them do anything exactly once, and most of the time they're complaining that they're getting their asses kicked and that it's all up to you.
The big 'war' sequence near the end is closest the game comes to selling the supposed scope of its plot, but honestly it just opens up even more holes. If the copies Infinite makes are all 'just as strong as the originals', as Shadow says, then how tf isn't Eggman wiping everyone out. There were like hundreds of Shadows in that cutscene, you'd think that alone would be enough, yet they do nothing but just stand there. I might have missed something, but it was so fucking stupid.

My point is, this game might be the ultimate example of a 'tell and not show' plot. Nothing in this game's presentation actually sells the threat of an Eggman Empire or its implications on the world, and the fact that the most interesting stuff is brushed over with plain white text on a black background makes this game's total lack of faith in its own plot even more egregious. Sonic is still a smarmy little shit despite being a POW (lol), and Eggman still comes off as a buffoon who still wanders around doing not much of anything in some cutscenes despite him supposedly having an empire to run.
Eggman is hella threatening in this game, using Infinite, tried to destroy the resistance with a sun, controlling reality, this isn't the Eggman from Heroes or Unleashed or even 2006.

But as the writting is soo dumb and lighthearted since Colors and BOOM its hard to take him seriously as he talks and acts like those games
 
Oct 27, 2017
936
Eggman is hella threatening in this game, using Infinite, tried to destroy the resistance with a sun, controlling reality, this isn't the Eggman from Heroes or Unleashed or even 2006.

But as the writting is soo dumb and lighthearted since Colors and BOOM its hard to take him seriously as he talks and acts like those games

Didn't he crack the entire planet in Unleashed? That took the entire game to fix and had obvious ramifications, whereas the sun thing is dealt with in like five minutes. It was yet another one of the things in this game that felt underdeveloped and goes by way too quickly for you to actually feel any pressure.
 

mo60

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,198
Edmonton, Alberta
Didn't he crack the entire planet in Unleashed? That took the entire game to fix and had obvious ramifications, whereas the sun thing is dealt with in like five minutes. It was yet another one of the things in this game that felt underdeveloped and goes by way too quickly for you to actually feel any pressure.
Eggman's also smarter then some of the previous sonic games. The sun thing plays a small part in the story, but all the stuff he does to prevent the resistance for winning is more then he usually does in a typical sonic game. For example the resistance manages to disable the ruby but eggman has a backup source for the ruby the instant they destroy it. The same thing happens again when they destroy the ruby's supposed second or third power source(?) closer to the end of the game.
 

Phil32

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,568
Our local library branch is going to have this game in soon (thankfully they accepted my request for it), so my brother and I are going to be able to check out the PS4 version of this. I have an open mind, so I hope it doesn't give me disdain for 3D Sonic again like the Werehog parts of Unleashed did.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,611
Australia
Beat this just now and struggling to really feel too much about it either way. There's the core of an alright game there, the base gameplay is still fun even where they've simplified it from Generations and the Avatar is an inoffensive variation on the modern style, but everything built over it is really short and simple and obviously rushed. I also can't believe they reused the Colours final boss AGAIN. Would be interested to know what the story is with the development of the game.

I guess I liked the aesthetic of the jungle casino stage? The neon glowing off the greens and browns was nice. Also disappointed that we had a fake Shadow but made no reference to the faker scene in SA2. Those are the strongest thoughts I have about this game.

buildabear9lycx.jpg
 

CUD

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
145
I 100%'d Forces last week. Took me 36 hours in total and I really enjoyed the game overall. Sure it could have had more content but I enjoyed it for what it was and found it enjoyable enough to complete everything it had to offer. It's not the greatest Sonic game ever but it isn't deserving of the level of hate that it has received.

Since finishing Forces I have moved back to Lost World. I didn't realise that the achievements were tied to missions so no wonder I barely got any missions when I first played through it. In addition to the missions I'm also getting all the red star rings, not too many left to go now.
 

Yoshi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,055
Germany
I find it a bit unfortunate that Sonic Forces hides its biggest challenges (which also make it the clearest that there is quite some thought put into the levels) in the missions. The timed missions are quite challenging (not over the top, but a nice challenge) and show that the levels were actually quite well planned.
 

Virtua Sanus

Member
Nov 24, 2017
6,492
I do think the challenges help give depth to the level designs. The boost Sonic version of Chemical Plant Zone in particular impressed me in some parts.

I recently 100%ed the game outside of the last ring focused achievement (going to wait for mods to get that one I think) and generally thought the game was alright. Enjoyed it a lot more than Colors and Lost World but considering I even thought Generations was kind of bland I think that says a lot about how I feel in regards to newer Sonic titles.

I actually quite appreciated the level length for the most part (some later levels REALLY should be a lot longer though) and I think this game has the best scoring system in the series since maybe Adventure 2. In more recent Sonic games the ranking is almost always decided by how fast you get to the end and is usually balanced quite poorly between different levels, whereas in Adventure 2 they had a brilliant balance of collecting as many rings and defeating as many enemies as possible, along with the option to skip all of that and just collect every ring instead (which is honestly much harder, but a worthy challenge). In Forces you need to collect some red star rings, defeat many enemies, etc to get good rankings without the daily experience boost. I think that is a nice extra as well but the challenges were really pathetic.
 

mo60

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,198
Edmonton, Alberta
I find it a bit unfortunate that Sonic Forces hides its biggest challenges (which also make it the clearest that there is quite some thought put into the levels) in the missions. The timed missions are quite challenging (not over the top, but a nice challenge) and show that the levels were actually quite well planned.
Yeah/ I beat almost all of the modern sonic time challenges yesterday besides the final infinite one. The classic sonic one's look harder from what I noticed. The time missions are quite hard at times. It does not help that I have not really speedrun a sonic game in years.
I do think the challenges help give depth to the level designs. The boost Sonic version of Chemical Plant Zone in particular impressed me in some parts.

I recently 100%ed the game outside of the last ring focused achievement (going to wait for mods to get that one I think) and generally thought the game was alright. Enjoyed it a lot more than Colors and Lost World but considering I even thought Generations was kind of bland I think that says a lot about how I feel in regards to newer Sonic titles.

I actually quite appreciated the level length for the most part (some later levels REALLY should be a lot longer though) and I think this game has the best scoring system in the series since maybe Adventure 2. In more recent Sonic games the ranking is almost always decided by how fast you get to the end and is usually balanced quite poorly between different levels, whereas in Adventure 2 they had a brilliant balance of collecting as many rings and defeating as many enemies as possible, along with the option to skip all of that and just collect every ring instead (which is honestly much harder, but a worthy challenge). In Forces you need to collect some red star rings, defeat many enemies, etc to get good rankings without the daily experience boost. I think that is a nice extra as well but the challenges were really pathetic.

I really hate how S ranks especially in some modern sonic levels like egg gate and luminous forest are tied to how well you perform in the QTE sections, Also it's definitely a lot harder to get an S rank in episode shadow. I only got an S rank on Enemy territory so far.
 

Virtua Sanus

Member
Nov 24, 2017
6,492
I really hate how S ranks especially in some modern sonic levels like egg gate and luminous forest are tied to how well you perform in the QTE sections, Also it's definitely a lot harder to get an S rank in episode shadow. I only got an S rank on Enemy territory so far.

They are not tied to them but they do help a bit. You just have to go out of your way to collect some red star rings and defeat some extra enemies.I have purposely failed the Luminous Forest one just to check if S Ranking it without the QTE score increase is a deal breaker.
 

Zonic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,439
Now that I think of it, I'm surprised that they didn't make it so your avatar goes all Super Sonic & you use the chaos emeralds to turn Super Avatar.
 

Al3x1s

Banned
Nov 13, 2017
2,824
Greece
Because in my opinion making money out of such a low quality meme implemented in such a low quality way wouldn't be just the fun tribute you said, it would just be a really low quality dlc.
 

Deleted member 9971

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,743
Really enjoyed the game tbh, sure it's not a great game at all and i see it's faults but i had my fun. Hopefully they patch Super Sonic and some more stuff in to make the game a slight bit better.

Also really liking it that shadow is playable in some levels. It has been a while since he was last playble wich was in Sonic and the Black Knight i think.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,611
Australia
Been replaying the avatar and modern stages this morning and it is pretty fun to just run through again despite the game's flaws. I really like the avatar stage themes.

Felt like it would be wrong to have a Sonic game with a character creator and not make an Original the Hedgehog so I went ahead and did that. Still really simple and basic but I kinda like her

img_20171129_084551meb18.jpg


Playing these in handheld also makes me kinda want an Uncolourations trilogy collection for Switch (with the proper version of Unleashed). Someone get on nagging Sega to give us that.
 

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,847
So, do species like the bird have such good animal abilities because they knew that 90% of the playerbase would make a hedgehog OC so they made the other animals better so you'd feel inclined to choose them instead?
 
OP
OP
Redhead On Moped
Oct 25, 2017
3,859
USA, Sol 3, Universe 1
I am not a fan of the bird or its double jump. Honestly, I dislike all Hedgehog designs and most of my characters are dogs, wolves, and rabbits. I think they are pretty even all things considered. I don't think Sega made the Hedgehog "worse".
 

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,682
Just finished this on Switch yesterday. Such a massive step down in quality from Colours/Generations. What a bummer.
 

roguesquirrel

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
5,487
So, do species like the bird have such good animal abilities because they knew that 90% of the playerbase would make a hedgehog OC so they made the other animals better so you'd feel inclined to choose them instead?
i wish 90% of the userbase made hedgehogs. i got so sick of seeing a goddamn red wolf when i did the sos missions that force you to play as a randos avatar
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
I wouldn't call this a step down next to Colors and Generations so much as I would call it "more streamlined". This game has essentially the same producers, directors and underdogs as Colors while Generations and Lost World switched up a few leads, and IMO it somewhat shows. Whilist all running on the Hedgehog Engine, Colors in particular always had a more "stiff" feel to it (no it's not the 30fps on Wii) that at first glance seems terrible but in the long run made it better than Generations in my experience. This game has that feeling of Colors's controls overall but in other places, particularly level length and having different play modes of Avatar, Sonic and Classic spreads the game too thin. If they had just made it one character like Colors they might've poured their resources into exploring the wispons and extra layers to every level and potentially extending the stage length to be worth more than 2 minutes at max.

By all means, I don't think this game is nearly as weak as critics or most people say. I actually admire this game more than Generations because while Generations generally delivered in stage design, it also had tedious missions and terrible boss encounters (bosses are actually not that bad in this one) and it suffered from trying to emulate the focus of each respective game and era haphazardly as you went from one set of stages to the next. At its worst it had Wisps suddenly introduced in the final two levels whilist not replicating them nearly as well as in Colors itself and as a whole I felt Generations had a general sense of being unfocused like this despite serving mostly well as a "Just Sonic" game and good nostalgia and polished gameplay. Forces wins out over Generations for me because it's more novel. Instead of relying on what has already been done, besides quick tours in Green(sandy) Hill or Chemical Plant (and a derivative final-final boss) there's actually a lot of new stage designs in this game. They may be some of the least interesting in terms of creativity compared to past original outings but for what it's worth I think this is a "bolder" game than Generations and there's actually a sense of focus between Modern Sonic and Avatar's stages and it makes perfect sense in the stages where they share the player's controls. It feels like Colors 2 to me only it's spread too thin by not focusing on either form of player character, instead making it a Classic, Avatar and Modern Sonic playable game.
 

Imran

Member
Oct 24, 2017
6,585
I got a code from work and decided to play this game.

It is easily the worst game I have played in 2017 and only manages not to be the worst Sonic game because there's barely playable messes beneath it.
 

Imran

Member
Oct 24, 2017
6,585
How many hours did you put into it? What did you not enjoy?
Probably around five to six, enough to beat the game.

I don't even know where to start. The physics are, at best, jarringly momentum-stopping and at worst completely nonsensical, Controls have some significant input lag behind them and even if they didn't, they don't act consistently. It feels completely untested, with me falling off platforms, characters juddering into each other, cheesing the (absolutely terrible) final boss by performing an action in such a way that just straight up made me invincible. The 3D segments seem built for drifting mechanics, but there's no drifting in the game. The aesthetic is both ugly and visually confusing.

It repeats assets constantly, but each level feels shockingly short. The story is both bad and badly told - vast swaths of it are predicated on people not being able to communicate with each other, even though everyone is on the radio constantly. Nothing is given any weight, things happen and then immediately unhappen (Sonic is dead - no, wait he's alive, now he's trapped in the null dimension, no wait he's fine, but Shadow is evil, actually he's not and immediately explains what is wrong in his first appearance, and Omega is here, but that's his last scene, etc.). The fucking tonal dissonance of Knuckles telling people about the horrors of war and Sonic being tortured for six months is embarrassing and cringeworthy, but not nearly as bad as the characters showering the dumb OC with effusive praise like a Fanfic.net lifelong regret.

It's not as broken as Sonic 2006, but it's worse in some ways. I feel like, at some point, someone at Sonic Team wanted Sonic 2006 to be good. They were misguided, they ran out of time, they didn't know what they were doing, but they had intentions for that game to be more than what came out on the disc. Sonic Forces doesn't feel like that. It feels like an absolute void of good intentions, a singular point of completely apathetic game design somehow released to the world. It's not even that it's cynical, it's that the game feels like such a slapped together pile of trash that there's almost nothing to even hate. There's no soul behind even its worst qualities.

It was worse than I expected it to be and I expected it to be bad.
 

Grapezard

Member
Nov 16, 2017
7,787
Just finished Forces yesterday.

I kind of... liked it? I was expecting a dumpster fire after all the reviews were giving it scores like 4/10. Anyway, I don't have any strong opinions on it, except that it felt like a diet Generations. Nothing extraordinary but nothing offensive.
 

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,682
I wouldn't call this a step down next to Colors and Generations so much as I would call it "more streamlined". This game has essentially the same producers, directors and underdogs as Colors while Generations and Lost World switched up a few leads, and IMO it somewhat shows. Whilist all running on the Hedgehog Engine, Colors in particular always had a more "stiff" feel to it (no it's not the 30fps on Wii) that at first glance seems terrible but in the long run made it better than Generations in my experience. This game has that feeling of Colors's controls overall but in other places, particularly level length and having different play modes of Avatar, Sonic and Classic spreads the game too thin. If they had just made it one character like Colors they might've poured their resources into exploring the wispons and extra layers to every level and potentially extending the stage length to be worth more than 2 minutes at max.
I honestly felt that the core physics of Forces felt way worse than Colours and Generations and that the level design was significantly worse too. That's not even mentioning the lack of variation in level themes.

I wish I agreed with you on it feeling like Colours 2 because I think I share a lot of your issues with Generations but I just found this game to fall flat repeatedly in places that Colours and Generations excelled.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
I wish I agreed with you on it feeling like Colours 2 because I think I share a lot of your issues with Generations but I just found this game to fall flat repeatedly in places that Colours and Generations excelled.
To me, Colors and Generations feel very distinct because Generations is an iteration on Unleashed's mechanics and omitted the Werehog crap while Colors mostly feels like something that was made for the ground up to play like Unleashed but work on the Wii, but it ended up feeling slightly tighter than Generations and its level design, despite being more automated and simplistic was better for it because of the sheer depth and amount of levels. Generations packs some kind of level-gimmick in each stage to suit the era, detracting from some of its focus but also kept conventions throughout so it was mostly good. Forces definitely more like Colors than Generations except it makes it even MORE automated which is why it becomes bad, not to mention them removing the focus on overly prefab-driven level design and thus spreading too few themes and too little level design too thin. I agree that there's a lack of different themes in the levels, but there are different ones, they're just artistically uninspired and unmemorable now, and the problem is how short and sparse all the levels are thus blending together into a sense of nothing being very memorable. The game just feels too narrow in an attempt to never piss off the player and an attempt to produce enough content for all its levels without resorting to half the game being strictly 2D.