Mmmm ya idk when I look at them right next to each other I stand by it lol. They basically fill the same role but one is a cute Sonic design and the other is uggo trash to me 🤷
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Sonic the Hedgehog Community |OT| There’s no end to this franchise!
- Thread starter Professor Beef
- Start date
Mmmm ya idk when I look at them right next to each other I stand by it lol. They basically fill the same role but one is a cute Sonic design and the other is uggo trash to me 🤷
Honestly, this plays okay enough on a controller that Sega could probably put out an HD Remaster on PS4 or even on Switch at the very least and it'd work.
Is this the first time the Sonic twitter account has mentioned the movie after the initial "reveal" posters?
I can't even begin to imagine the kind of PR nightmare SoA is preparing for.
Ooh, dat cluttered and aimless level design...
They probably could, but like, why
Maybe it's the mood I'm in today, but I'm over tech demo playgrounds that don't actually put forward any interesting ideas on how to make an interesting level
I was over them the moment they started to become the expected way to construct a level in 3D Sonic fangame demos.
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It's why Sonic Utopia didn't completely sell me on its gameplay. I need to see level design that isn't a clusterfuck of random ideas in order to get an impression on how well it'd work, but that's clearly not gonna happen.
Love that Chinese New Year design for Blaze. Shame it is in Speed Battle though. I really liked it for awhile, but now I cannot stand it. Both Dash games are more enjoyable at a high level IMO.
What I personally would do is establish a quality game design foremost then revisit the Lost Hex idea with different level tropes and more detailed artwork. This time however I would let the player find the pieces of that world and rebuild it as they themselves see fit. Consider making the game without Robotnik at all, but use his broken/destroyed tech to establish a different kind of threat with the Zeti. Give each one of them time to create distinct identities too.
Before that however I think they just need to casually show up in a quality game. I honestly am expecting people to become way less hostile with Zavok after Team Sonic Racing already. If Zazz, Zeena and the others show up in that game's story mode and it turns out to be enjoyable then I think most people will stop complaining about them outright.
I also am fond of the idea of large bodied or uniquely shaped Sonic characters showing up more often. Most of the 'recolor' discussion would disappear completely if we had more characters like the Deadly Six and Big showing up in different games people actually play.
I think the Zeti can all work. Lost World being their debut game is significant because it is probably the most disliked game in the franchise's history. Another issue is that they had some of the worst writing in the series ever, but this was also true for every character in that game. In the Japanese dialog all of those characters are handled differently (except Zomom, the fat one) so there is a strong disconnect with how they have been presented.
What I personally would do is establish a quality game design foremost then revisit the Lost Hex idea with different level tropes and more detailed artwork. This time however I would let the player find the pieces of that world and rebuild it as they themselves see fit. Consider making the game without Robotnik at all, but use his broken/destroyed tech to establish a different kind of threat with the Zeti. Give each one of them time to create distinct identities too.
Before that however I think they just need to casually show up in a quality game. I honestly am expecting people to become way less hostile with Zavok after Team Sonic Racing already. If Zazz, Zeena and the others show up in that game's story mode and it turns out to be enjoyable then I think most people will stop complaining about them outright.
I also am fond of the idea of large bodied or uniquely shaped Sonic characters showing up more often. Most of the 'recolor' discussion would disappear completely if we had more characters like the Deadly Six and Big showing up in different games people actually play.
I would like a sonic battle racing game for a console with alt costumes. Make sonic rivals but not trash. Would be neat. The mobile stuff doesn't do much for me.
I appreciate the thought you put into this. I actually wanted responses besides " Throw them in the garbagio "
I wonder if it would work better if they showed up seperate? Like they used different ones in different games and not just the same two. LIke in that hypothetical game I mentioned above, having them be the bosses of it and having them kinda be seperate and interact with different folks giving them more personality and writing them to be enjoyable,
Speaking of writing and the zeti, again ... what in the hell is zavok gonna say to anyone in that new sonic team racing? Now i'm not expecting the best dialog, or knuckles's voice acting to be good, but that said they apparently spent a lot of time on it and there are a lot of lines. And obviously there will be references and character interactions, but zavok hasn't been around long enough to have like a substancial amount of any of those. He don't know no body and he been in like one mainline game. I am super interested in whatever the hell he's gonna be saying
Ruby Eclipse needs a raise
And to answer your question, I think so. Though I think that's because I don't think we are seeing a trailer for some months, film comes out in November
I appreciate the thought you put into this. I actually wanted responses besides " Throw them in the garbagio "
I wonder if it would work better if they showed up seperate? Like they used different ones in different games and not just the same two. LIke in that hypothetical game I mentioned above, having them be the bosses of it and having them kinda be seperate and interact with different folks giving them more personality and writing them to be enjoyable,
Speaking of writing and the zeti, again ... what in the hell is zavok gonna say to anyone in that new sonic team racing? Now i'm not expecting the best dialog, or knuckles's voice acting to be good, but that said they apparently spent a lot of time on it and there are a lot of lines. And obviously there will be references and character interactions, but zavok hasn't been around long enough to have like a substancial amount of any of those. He don't know no body and he been in like one mainline game. I am super interested in whatever the hell he's gonna be saying
Ruby Eclipse needs a raise
And to answer your question, I think so. Though I think that's because I don't think we are seeing a trailer for some months, film comes out in November
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Yeah, having them individually show up instead of being forced to be a team would help a lot too. Having to write six extra villains in games that are distinctly light on story is always going to be a bad idea. Just having someone like say Zeena butting heads with Rouge in a game where she shows up could be fun and unique.
A huge issue that has plagued the games is that Sonic Team for whatever reason never wanted to make a game where characters just casually cameo (except Sonic Adventure 2 multiplayer and Sonic Battle, I guess?). It always stood out because for a long time all of the anthro characters were the playable ones and the humans were NPCs. It never felt like a natural mix. Like, imagine how much nicer Sonic Unleashed would have been if say you could get some missions with Vector in Empire City where he needs your to help him scope out new musicians, or say Rouge was in Adabat requesting you to do her secret mission so she can sub bathe instead, or hell throw in a Secret Rings reference to the desert levels. It would seriously make that game feel more special and connected with the franchise.
Going back to Zavok's dialog, I think most of the discussions between all characters in Team Sonic Racing is going to be mostly generic quips and overall super light on references. If I am wrong I think Zavok is mostly just going to be a calm and cocky guy that scares the more easily frightened characters.
In order
1) It would give the oppertunities to flesh out their characters by interacting with other people. It might also give them to flesh out zeti as a concept, what their role is going forward.
2) You are brushing against an issue I have had with sonic as a series , I always thought sonic existing with like humans except robotnik was always lame and never worked out except like... maybe 3 times. While I would prefer the characters you talk about be playable in some capacity in future, other new anthro people being background people and npc's would be good and interesting and would kind of flesh out " Sonic's world" which despite us going there for several decades.. never really got to know. Build something. New characters who people can endear themselves too who just sorta exist in the world
Also from like a slimy businessman angle having a bunch of characters with the similar design style of your main characters that look cool and inhabiting your world with those character problably ends up being profitable in the long run if people end up liking some of those characters.
I'm not fond of humans in sonic, the only good one is named robotnik.
3) maybe, but there's a lot of recorded dialog , I dunno might be more substancial and interesting depending on character combinations. Or maybe its nothing, we will see.
This looks much better than Utopia. However...
Im not sure why people think Sonic Team couldnt make an open sandbox like this. Of course they could lol. What exactly is the objective in these things?
And the idea that modern sonic has to have "momentum" or classic sonic physics is so silly to me. Mario jumped to 3D and did not keep the principles at all. And the only 3d mario that did is probably the worst one. (3D Land/World) They arent bad games, but you dont have to force 2d gameplay in a 3d world.
While I'm ranting stop adding boost to everything. Even fan games. Make the levels smaller (or Sonic bigger?) and add "gimmicks" to them. It's much harder to make engaging gameplay with boost because the number 1 obstacle is always control/dodging. Not gimmicks like treasure hunting or fishing lol. Wisp was a great idea, they probably overdid it a tad and never really translated it to 3d though. Mario is the gimmick master. The stuff they throw at you in the 3d games are 2nd to none.'
It's also kind of inevitable that fan game tech demos will be structured like that? A linear level with a specific gimmick isn't really a great way to test out the new physics and mechanics the game has to offer - making it a big playground let's both the developers and players mess around with these aspects of the game in a lot of different contexts and situations in a time efficient way. Utopia should be coming out this year and it's already been confirmed ages ago that the real game is going to have more linear levels because the demo we played was supposed to be a vertical slice playground. It's like people forget that these developers are doing this all for free and with limited resources.
There's a ton of potential in these nascent open environments when applied to a Sonic game. My main complaint is that there isn't a whole lot to do just yet. Picture it something like Mario Odyssey; the level is completely open and maybe the goal isn't just to get to the end as fast as possible, maybe there are a ton of things to collect, mountains to scale, impossible jumps to make and ingenious puzzles to solve, some involving the elemental shields I'm sure (burning a wooden bridge or magnetising a metal lock or example).
It's about enjoying the levels at different scales. Large it's collecting rings, killing badniks and getting to the Goal. You need more things to do on a micro scale to stop the open worlds being these barren, aimless open spaces.
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So hey guess what, Sciz went and helped to add banners to the OP! It's totally not for a special occasion or anything!
Islands is my favourite physics-based-3D-Sonic-with-multiple-routes-and-paths take thus far for this reason. (The others are fab though). It's more akin to a direction I hope the official games might take;
As of now, it has a more collectathon-like structure - you search and rescue Flickies to progress, collect Emeralds to gain abilities, power them up with the Pedestals you find to gain more abilities, which you can use to get to other areas to find more Flickies. So it definitely takes advantage of the level being a sand-box/playground.
The game itself feels and controls like an almagamation of the Classics, Adventure and Lost World.
That momentum based Mach Speed addition looks like a proper evolution of the Boost formula mixed with Adventure, something I'd definitely be all up for.
Sometimes wonder why they never implemented it in the 3D games after the Advance trilogy.
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Sonic Islands in particular felt super directionless to me, like game that was only built to be that one level and nothing else. I'm also not a fan of the Banjo-Kazooie style of ability acquisition there, because moves are typically from one of two categories:
1. Moves that I think are 100% necessary for 3D Sonic control but you don't start with them
2. Useless cruft that probably sounded cooler on paper than it actually is
And there's like, what, 14 abilities just in that one level? If there's stuff in that one level that already feels like it's useless then what's it gonna be like by the time you reach a potential level 3?
I also don't like being gated from progression until I find all of the keys to unlock the door. I am very staunchly anti-key-hunting in most games, especially an action game like Sonic. It's fine in a game like Zelda or whatever, where keys are your reward for solving puzzles or whatever, but having to collect flickies in order to bring down a barrier that's blocking progression in this context doesn't serve any fun or interesting purpose besides forcing you to wander around when that might not be what you want to do right now.
That's not to say I think Sonic Islands is bad, it's still an interesting exploration of some concepts, but I definitely didn't understand why so many people at SAGE last year were like "omg best ever"
1. Moves that I think are 100% necessary for 3D Sonic control but you don't start with them
2. Useless cruft that probably sounded cooler on paper than it actually is
And there's like, what, 14 abilities just in that one level? If there's stuff in that one level that already feels like it's useless then what's it gonna be like by the time you reach a potential level 3?
I also don't like being gated from progression until I find all of the keys to unlock the door. I am very staunchly anti-key-hunting in most games, especially an action game like Sonic. It's fine in a game like Zelda or whatever, where keys are your reward for solving puzzles or whatever, but having to collect flickies in order to bring down a barrier that's blocking progression in this context doesn't serve any fun or interesting purpose besides forcing you to wander around when that might not be what you want to do right now.
That's not to say I think Sonic Islands is bad, it's still an interesting exploration of some concepts, but I definitely didn't understand why so many people at SAGE last year were like "omg best ever"
The amount of assets required to make a Sonic game is abnormally higher than all other platformers already, both 2D and 3D. Especially when you consider the short timeframe these games are typically released in it becomes a huge issue.
An open world compared to Utopia or Islands has not been feasible for a very long time considering the hardware restraints. Even a project like Sonic Robo Blast 2 with modern visuals was not very viable on previous gen hardware. Unless they want to make secondary side games just for the Nintendo Switch then it's hardware is going to be a major issue for the growth of future Sonic games too. That is not all bad though, if they target 30fps on that then Xbox One, PlayStation 4 and certainly their successors will easily be 60fps.
Considering how thin the Sonic devs in Japan are stretched now that they have to work on stuff like Puyo Puyo, Sakura Taisen and potentially more Valkyria games I think they should start focusing on making one major Sonic game every three or four years (before you ask, Forces did not take even half that long) while SEGA America and Europe tackle their own titles commissioned or otherwise to fill in the gaps. Sonic does not need to be a yearly game franchise.
They do need to seriously look at remastering games with more passion though. Sonic Unleashed, Generations, Colors and more seriously need modern ports with gameplay additions/tweaks.
An open world compared to Utopia or Islands has not been feasible for a very long time considering the hardware restraints. Even a project like Sonic Robo Blast 2 with modern visuals was not very viable on previous gen hardware. Unless they want to make secondary side games just for the Nintendo Switch then it's hardware is going to be a major issue for the growth of future Sonic games too. That is not all bad though, if they target 30fps on that then Xbox One, PlayStation 4 and certainly their successors will easily be 60fps.
Considering how thin the Sonic devs in Japan are stretched now that they have to work on stuff like Puyo Puyo, Sakura Taisen and potentially more Valkyria games I think they should start focusing on making one major Sonic game every three or four years (before you ask, Forces did not take even half that long) while SEGA America and Europe tackle their own titles commissioned or otherwise to fill in the gaps. Sonic does not need to be a yearly game franchise.
They do need to seriously look at remastering games with more passion though. Sonic Unleashed, Generations, Colors and more seriously need modern ports with gameplay additions/tweaks.
There are ways to mitigate some of the asset requirements. Fast Racing Neo on the Wii U and Switch use procedural generation and photogrammetry to fill in outside track details. Leaning more on stylization would also cut back on needing tons of detail. Sonic Lost World kind of does this, and it doesn't look bad. Sonic Forces mainly looks bad because it looks unfinished, and given that the rest of the game is kind of a jumbled mess, I think you can blame the development schedule for that game being ugly more than anything else.
I've thought about this yesterday, and I actually agree with this. Releasing multiple mainline 3D Sonic games yearly did more harm than good in quality assurance, regardless of outliers. I'd be more content with the Nintendo style output honestly.
They really just need to start embracing how multi-faceted the franchise is, like Nintendo does with Mario. Each generation gives us 1-2 3D Marios, 1-2 2D Marios, and a plethora of spinoffs done by different developers but some of them carrying a pretty high pedigree.
It wouldn't be too hard to replicate that for Sonic now that they've got winning formulas for both 2D and 3D, except for their whole scorched earth philosophy whenever something fails to perform. Sonic and All Stars was nothing but gold but with TSR looking like a step back... that's not great.
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Congrats Sonic Era! You're the new community spotlight!
Now it's time to go fast and find froggy.
Also great updates to the OP!
Now it's time to go fast and find froggy.
Also great updates to the OP!
I agree. It absolutely blows my mind that they have never really pushed to make individual Knuckles, Robotnik or Tails games past the 90s. Instead of experimenting with weird Sonic games every year they seriously could just push a new style Knuckles game with different themes and aesthetics and I am sure it would have a decent amount of interest. Hell, a Blaze game with a different style and focus would be an especially cool idea now that I think of it.
It is lame how Donkey Kong, Yoshi and even freakin Luigi can be considered their own franchises at this point when Sonic fans just have games where only he is playable all of the time.
This kind of level design has a ton of potential! Like, this could be perfect with a few tweaks... Namely, a bit of direction, some little tasks to complete, things to collect that unlock new areas and more linear level like structures within the sandbox.
For example, the moments in this video Sonic is running straight up these huge inclines they could put spikes to dodge with modern Sonics quick dodge ability, a trail of special rings to collect in order, to unlock a new area of the map...
Furthermore, when Sonic comes off of a huge ramp high in the sky Sonic could transition into sky-diving mode and again dodge lasers or what-have-you.
Yeah, lots of potential to be something incredible.
Just dropping some sick beats for now
If you own any of the classic Sonic games on Steam, check out these mods/fanhacks
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=674641221&searchtext=amy
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=674661320&searchtext=amy
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=678925118&searchtext=amy
If you can't get enough Drop Dashing in your life
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1120385991&searchtext=drop+dash
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1621013803&searchtext=drop+dash
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=731664361&searchtext=drop+dash
There's also Sonic 3D Blast DX which adds a few QoL updates to the game
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1241378226
https://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_3D:_Director's_Cut
If you own any of the classic Sonic games on Steam, check out these mods/fanhacks
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=674641221&searchtext=amy
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=674661320&searchtext=amy
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=678925118&searchtext=amy
If you can't get enough Drop Dashing in your life
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1120385991&searchtext=drop+dash
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1621013803&searchtext=drop+dash
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=731664361&searchtext=drop+dash
There's also Sonic 3D Blast DX which adds a few QoL updates to the game
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1241378226
https://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_3D:_Director's_Cut
They tried this with Shadow(one of the more popular characters in the cast) ten years ago and we all know how that happened.
I think Sega/Sonic Team is still too cagey to make spinoffs staring Sonic's extended cast. The mainline games themselves hardly get a decent budget nowadays.
Forces might be a rushed piece of shit but the game itself is very pretty
In regards to spin offs. I want two
Shadow the hedgehog low to mid budget character action action game
Tails mid to low budget point and click adventure game
Obviously I would want these to have all the money but even sonic games aren't really getting to much in the way of allocated funds nowadays and you gotta start somewhere. I feel about those and any other spin off ideas anyone else has the same way I feel about sonic " Sure but it should be made by other people and they should be allowed as far as gameplay is concerned to make the best game, not the best sonic type game, that they can" . I feel like if sonic team were to make these not only would quality be questionable, but they would... i dunno try and make shit sonic-ey for some reason when I feel like spin off could function in other gameplay styles , and the sonic-ey stuff could be aesthetic and characters.
As for why they haven't tried spin offs, well.. they did kind of recently? Sonic boom. Now I know a lot of people aren't fond of sonic boom, whether it be the writing, the show, the character designs, maybe feeling like it was supposed to replace sonic at some point. But i do feel like the basic idea of it all, or what I can interpret what the orginal idea of the original game was supposed to be, is a good idea for a spin off. It seemed like they were going to section off all the sonic adventure type shit, and just ... make a sonic adventure universe. There was supposed to be chaos and a chao world that was removed from the game, there's a whole series of voice lines from shadow... and some other character I forget her name that suggest they were gonna be playable. The new world, focus on lore ( at least in the games ) , and in the original game sort of while funny kind of dramatic story.
It feels like before they got merged with the TV show project and eventually became sonic boom. Someone was trying to just spin off adventure sonic into its own thing. And given how mania is and how forces is, I think that's a good idea? Focusing on one aspect of sonic and comitting to what makes that , that and doing it well , I think will do well. So I think they will attempt spin offs in future, or I hope...it will be more like that and less like Tails point and click adventure game. Even though I want it so bad
Shadow the hedgehog low to mid budget character action action game
Tails mid to low budget point and click adventure game
Obviously I would want these to have all the money but even sonic games aren't really getting to much in the way of allocated funds nowadays and you gotta start somewhere. I feel about those and any other spin off ideas anyone else has the same way I feel about sonic " Sure but it should be made by other people and they should be allowed as far as gameplay is concerned to make the best game, not the best sonic type game, that they can" . I feel like if sonic team were to make these not only would quality be questionable, but they would... i dunno try and make shit sonic-ey for some reason when I feel like spin off could function in other gameplay styles , and the sonic-ey stuff could be aesthetic and characters.
As for why they haven't tried spin offs, well.. they did kind of recently? Sonic boom. Now I know a lot of people aren't fond of sonic boom, whether it be the writing, the show, the character designs, maybe feeling like it was supposed to replace sonic at some point. But i do feel like the basic idea of it all, or what I can interpret what the orginal idea of the original game was supposed to be, is a good idea for a spin off. It seemed like they were going to section off all the sonic adventure type shit, and just ... make a sonic adventure universe. There was supposed to be chaos and a chao world that was removed from the game, there's a whole series of voice lines from shadow... and some other character I forget her name that suggest they were gonna be playable. The new world, focus on lore ( at least in the games ) , and in the original game sort of while funny kind of dramatic story.
It feels like before they got merged with the TV show project and eventually became sonic boom. Someone was trying to just spin off adventure sonic into its own thing. And given how mania is and how forces is, I think that's a good idea? Focusing on one aspect of sonic and comitting to what makes that , that and doing it well , I think will do well. So I think they will attempt spin offs in future, or I hope...it will be more like that and less like Tails point and click adventure game. Even though I want it so bad
The city looks really cool.
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Well that just how I envisioned a Sonic in 3D. The world is still a little too big and Sonic a little TOO FAST but I'll be happy is Sonic Team take some ideas of something like this.
Wow, I forgot just how jank the game could be, with Sonic jittering awkwardly while doing simple things like grinding. But it still is special to me. And it really does have a ton of character, and tried a lot of new things. It's sort of the Anti-Forces.
That's why I feel like they should go back to a Sonic CD-esque (Toei) style, but in 3D. Not just because "It's old, so it's better", but it's going to be a lot easier rendering vast landscapes with procedurally generated content in a simple style like that.
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Honestly, that version of Big Arms isn't even the worst track from Chronicles. Diamond Dust and Quartz Quadrant (US Good/Bad Future) suffered worse fates, if that's even possible.
Do you guys think Sonic Team are aware of those sandbox, open world kinda Sonic fan games like Utopia and Paradise? I really wish they would take notes... Neither of them are the kind of quality I would expect from an official Sonic game but the premise is on point...
They probably have noticed, but until one of them actually presents feasible level design, I don't know what they're supposed to take out of it.