Sonic the Hedgehog Community |OT| There’s no end to this franchise!

Nov 24, 2017
2,576
They tried this with Shadow(one of the more popular characters in the cast) ten years ago and we all know how that happened.

I think Sega/Sonic Team is still too cagey to make spinoffs staring Sonic's extended cast. The mainline games themselves hardly get a decent budget nowadays.
I think they genuinely do not believe Sonic's side characters are popular enough to hold up their own games, especially with how normal Sonic games sales have been slipping for years. Honestly they probably are not wrong, but it is still worth a shot. It makes sense to give other characters a more experimental game while they focus on making the highest quality mainline game they can in the meanwhile.

As for the budgets, Sonic games are traditionally on the low end sure, but so are all of SEGA's other games and those almost all turn out great now. Poor management at Sonic Team and SEGA Japan just caring a whole lot less with what they do with the franchise as the games are typically meant for Westerners are the biggest issues. Throwing money will not fix anything either as Boom is the highest budget effort in the franchise's history.

Do you guys think Sonic Team are aware of those sandbox, open world kinda Sonic fan games like Utopia and Paradise? I really wish they would take notes... Neither of them are the kind of quality I would expect from an official Sonic game but the premise is on point...
They absolutely are aware. I theorize that a lot of the fans wishes are communicated to them, but poorly translated or described. The best example is something like they constantly hear about the physics needing to be more prominent, but that ends up turning the movement into the weird heavy stuff you see in recent titles.

The one thing I wish they would learn above all else is that they absolutely need to stop trying to emulate Nintendo games. It just simply has never and will never work, Sonic was meant to be an anti-Nintendo design.
 
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Professor Beef

Professor Beef

YOU WANNA GO DUMB, I'LL GO DUMB WITH YOU
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Oct 25, 2017
7,942
The Digital World
Do you guys think Sonic Team are aware of those sandbox, open world kinda Sonic fan games like Utopia and Paradise? I really wish they would take notes... Neither of them are the kind of quality I would expect from an official Sonic game but the premise is on point...
Honest to god, I hope Sonic never goes open world.
 
Nov 2, 2017
3,354
California
Honest to god, I hope Sonic never goes open world.
Yep.

It could be awesome if it's a blend of open world areas mixed with tighter more linear areas.
But you know it won't be. An open world Sonic game will be large, empty environments with bland, messy layouts. You can't have an environment be open world while also providing extremely tight and focused platforming challenges. The tighter, more linear areas would more than likely be the highlight like they nearly always are in open world games and if that happens then what's the point of the open world stuff? Just to pad out the game and let people see how fast Sonic can really go even though we already have a gameplay style for that?

There are some games that either need the open world structure to work(GTA, Saints Row, etc), or can at least benefit from it(Zelda, MGS to an extent, etc). Sonic isn't one of those. No platformer is.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,649
I think they genuinely do not believe Sonic's side characters are popular enough to hold up their own games, especially with how normal Sonic games sales have been slipping for years. Honestly they probably are not wrong, but it is still worth a shot. It makes sense to give other characters a more experimental game while they focus on making the highest quality mainline game they can in the meanwhile.
I think they are wrong but I think they wont realize they are wrong. I hold strong in my belief that just... putting more consistent content out in general would solve a lot of appearance and popularity issues . The issue how they develop games as of currently doesn't seem to allow for that. So while I think i'm correct on this, how they develop games and how they take criticism seems to be the bane of nay type of consistent success.

They absolutely are aware. I theorize that a lot of the fans wishes are communicated to them, but poorly translated or described. The best example is something like they constantly hear about the physics needing to be more prominent, but that ends up turning the movement into the weird heavy stuff you see in recent titles.
While poor communication could be an issue a few times, they seem to just not take criticism well. Or at least , view everything in sonic from a specific space, that criticism is filtered through a lens that we can't comprehend on the consumer side. I'm inclined to believe the latter because they are known to just... push stuff that like no one wants or cares for really? But they view sonic in a specific way , so sonic's has to have this thing or play this way and then trying to use that as a filter of critcism causes not great stuff to happen


The one thing I wish they would learn above all else is that they absolutely need to stop trying to emulate Nintendo games. It just simply has never and will never work, Sonic was meant to be an anti-Nintendo design.
On both Aesthetic and Gameplay I generally agree. Its one of the reasons i'm really not fond of lost world. ( and Colors too much tbh ).

Honest to god, I hope Sonic never goes open world.
I think the closest to open world sonic should get is " Large levels " like big levels with some replay value maybe multiple objectives? Sure, sonic and and open world just, I dunno doesn't seem cool?
 
Dec 3, 2018
101
Out of all the tech demos I think Sonic Islands has the most potential
Islands is my favourite physics-based-3D-Sonic-with-multiple-routes-and-paths take thus far for this reason. (The others are fab though). It's more akin to a direction I hope the official games might take;


As of now, it has a more collectathon-like structure - you search and rescue Flickies to progress, collect Emeralds to gain abilities, power them up with the Pedestals you find to gain more abilities, which you can use to get to other areas to find more Flickies. So it definitely takes advantage of the level being a sand-box/playground.

The game itself feels and controls like an almagamation of the Classics, Adventure and Lost World.
I think Sonic Islands is the best of those 3d fan games. It has the best combinations of classic sonic and modern sonic which is what I want from tthe series. The controls could use polishing though.
 
Dec 3, 2018
101
Sonic Islands in particular felt super directionless to me, like game that was only built to be that one level and nothing else. I'm also not a fan of the Banjo-Kazooie style of ability acquisition there, because moves are typically from one of two categories:

1. Moves that I think are 100% necessary for 3D Sonic control but you don't start with them
2. Useless cruft that probably sounded cooler on paper than it actually is

And there's like, what, 14 abilities just in that one level? If there's stuff in that one level that already feels like it's useless then what's it gonna be like by the time you reach a potential level 3?

I also don't like being gated from progression until I find all of the keys to unlock the door. I am very staunchly anti-key-hunting in most games, especially an action game like Sonic. It's fine in a game like Zelda or whatever, where keys are your reward for solving puzzles or whatever, but having to collect flickies in order to bring down a barrier that's blocking progression in this context doesn't serve any fun or interesting purpose besides forcing you to wander around when that might not be what you want to do right now.

That's not to say I think Sonic Islands is bad, it's still an interesting exploration of some concepts, but I definitely didn't understand why so many peoyple at SAGE last year were like "omg best ever"
What I like about Sonic Islands isnt the current level structure but the potential the gameplay brings.
 
Nov 2, 2017
3,354
California
Anyone play SRB2? I played years ago and loved it
I played it quite a bit back in 07/08. It was quite a novelty back then. I played whatever the last huge update that came out half a decade or more ago as well. The one that including the western themed stage and the final level.

My problem with SRB2 was always the controls. They really aren't a good fit for a platformer and the level design has plenty of rough spots but considering this fangame originated before we even got Sonic Adventure in the west I think it's kind of forgivable. It's still a very impressive accomplishment and I had a lot of fun with the multiplayer back in the day (one of the first online multiplayer experiences I had, if I'm not mistaken).

If it ever gets truly "finished" then I'd be up to go back to it just to experience the end result.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,649
The Sonic and shadow on the shirts are from the monthly pics put out by sonic channel I believe

However... I don't know where the shadow in the middle is from. Each year has a different aesthetic, and I do not remember that one.
 
Sep 28, 2018
317
Yep.



But you know it won't be. An open world Sonic game will be large, empty environments with bland, messy layouts. You can't have an environment be open world while also providing extremely tight and focused platforming challenges. The tighter, more linear areas would more than likely be the highlight like they nearly always are in open world games and if that happens then what's the point of the open world stuff? Just to pad out the game and let people see how fast Sonic can really go even though we already have a gameplay style for that?

There are some games that either need the open world structure to work(GTA, Saints Row, etc), or can at least benefit from it(Zelda, MGS to an extent, etc). Sonic isn't one of those. No platformer is.
It doesn't necessarily have to be an open world sandbox, that's not what I'm driving at here. But a 3D Sonic game with a larger focus on exploration, momentum and various routes would be fantastic. And a sandbox playground for a HUB could be neat.
 
Oct 27, 2017
178
Forces might be a rushed piece of shit but the game itself is very pretty
The genuinely new environments in Forces look great, there just aren't many of them.
I guess the Sunset City or whatever they call the burning town level is nice looking but when I think of Sonic Forces for some reason I always think of, like, breaking out of the Death Egg, or Mortar Canyon, or Chemical Plant, which look like college sophomore Unreal Engine 4 assignments. In terms of art direction they're incredibly drab, repetitive, and kind of generic looking. And then you have weird non sequiturial stuff like Casino Forest, which neither makes sense nor is very fun, it's just a weird dumb mashup of two different concepts, like that's where the darts landed when they threw them at the board.

The burning city, the futuristic city look nice, and I guess parts of Green Hill look kind of alright, but that's, like... it

Wow, I forgot just how jank the game could be, with Sonic jittering awkwardly while doing simple things like grinding. But it still is special to me. And it really does have a ton of character, and tried a lot of new things. It's sort of the Anti-Forces.
I wonder how much 30fps hides stuff like that. I think the 60fps code also causes the dialog audio to run together, too.

Do you guys think Sonic Team are aware of those sandbox, open world kinda Sonic fan games like Utopia and Paradise? I really wish they would take notes... Neither of them are the kind of quality I would expect from an official Sonic game but the premise is on point...
I've heard through the grape vine that they're at least aware of stuff like SRB2 Kart, but that also got pretty major coverage on sites like RockPaperShotgun. But I'd assume they would have to know.

Anyone play SRB2? I played years ago and loved it
I was a texture artist for them, briefly. Some of my textures didn't make it in to the game, but you can find a few of them still in use in Deep Sea Zone and Red Volcano Zone. Unfortunately, I never finished what I was assigned to do, but they have better texture artists now and the game is in the process of getting a huge graphical revamp in the future (which will hopefully be done soon...)

 
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Oct 27, 2017
178
I'd like SRB2's low poly pack a lot more if there wasn't pixel dithering on the textures themselves. When viewed at oblique angles that dithering isn't going to look good.
 
Oct 28, 2017
78
I'd like SRB2's low poly pack a lot more if there wasn't pixel dithering on the textures themselves. When viewed at oblique angles that dithering isn't going to look good.
Yeah, it would’ve been cool if they could have maybe used a dither shader instead if dithering the textures themselves. It probs won’t be too bad with most models but there’s a TON of dithering on Sonic.
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,771
So someone made a good character analysis video of Tails during Sonic Forces. The theory is that Tails was suffering from depression.


He brings up pretty good points. But those points are muddled by Forces crap writing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,649
So someone made a good character analysis video of Tails during Sonic Forces. The theory is that Tails was suffering from depression.


He brings up pretty good points. But those points are muddled by Forces crap writing.
I have seen this, the issue is like

There is no reason for me to believe that this was meant more than just a reason to have a character not fight. Because ... the story does that with a bunch of other characters including sonic himself. Shadow just vanishes, Sonic despite just being able to punch infinite in the face later... just doesn't the first time, and silver forgets he has telepathy and a bunch of other characters just don't do anything and sit in a room.

I think there is plenty to explore with having sonic characters, especially sonic go through something that genuinely gets them down for a while. But given the context the only thing I can see tails in forces as, is bad writing. He isn't suffering from depression, he's suffering from the plot bending over backwards to make a villian threatening that never really was

I think the video is interesting and I appreciate someone trying to look at it from a different angle though
 
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Feb 2, 2018
2,042
Forces is just garbage in general. Dont try to make sense of Tails. They tried to have their new comedy team writers give us a serious story and failed at both.

They tried to combine everything into a sonic game and failed at all of it.

Give me something new from a new developer. And let Flynn into the room for writing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,169
Oman
Just want to chime in and say that sonic boom fire and ice on 3ds is a decent 2d platformer and its delayed release really helped the game in letting the dev team get more time to polish it up.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,649
Just want to chime in and say that sonic boom fire and ice on 3ds is a decent 2d platformer and its delayed release really helped the game in letting the dev team get more time to polish it up.
This is true

Forces is just garbage in general. Dont try to make sense of Tails. They tried to have their new comedy team writers give us a serious story and failed at both.

They tried to combine everything into a sonic game and failed at all of it.

Give me something new from a new developer. And let Flynn into the room for writing.
This is also true. Though I dunno if flynn will ever get to do that.

having different developers would be nice, I dunno having sonic team be a supervisory team and sonic as a brand is made be made by different folks would be interesting.
 
Feb 2, 2018
2,042
This is true



This is also true. Though I dunno if flynn will ever get to do that.

having different developers would be nice, I dunno having sonic team be a supervisory team and sonic as a brand is made be made by different folks would be interesting.
Yes. Although cut out the supervisor team cause word on the street is they fucked up Sonic Boom.

Giving Sonic away is the least they can do if they don't even believe in him enough to make it $60

The only problem with Flynn is his stories never reach that critical point where you have to keep reading. A lot of that is him cleaning up the mess of other people. I really enjoy what he did to attempt to fix the lore and IDW should be canon imo. For now. The topaz jewels could change my mind later . Although it's not like Sonic Team was any better with the Phantom ruby
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,649
Yes. Although cut out the supervisor team cause word on the street is they fucked up Sonic Boom.

Giving Sonic away is the least they can do if they don't even believe in him enough to make it $60
Eh, while sonic boom was a mess it wasn't exclusively thier mess, not taking away their bad decisions. But iizuka oversaw mania.. and it turned outline and was made into a bigger project. And sonic team and sega over sea the comics and those have gotten way better when they started doing that especially given the weird ass dark years that took place before it. I think they are capable of being supervisors.

For me at least I have this fear of cutting them out completely? Sonic , to me , as a series has been this weird mix of americana and weird anime bullshit aesthetically and I feel like I dunno if you ever fully got rid of sonic team... you would loose the weird kind of takes itself seriously anime bullshit part. Even Ian flynn talks about this about how he writes those books so good. And I dunno, I feel like they would just try and remove all that. Not everyone who would come on would be an Ian flynn or a whitehead who would get that. I feel like having a team that's around to make sure stuff stays on brand and to keep shit kinda weird would be good.

I dunno, just me
 
Feb 2, 2018
2,042
Eh, while sonic boom was a mess it wasn't exclusively thier mess, not taking away their bad decisions. But iizuka oversaw mania.. and it turned outline and was made into a bigger project. And sonic team and sega over sea the comics and those have gotten way better when they started doing that especially given the weird ass dark years that took place before it. I think they are capable of being supervisors.

For me at least I have this fear of cutting them out completely? Sonic , to me , as a series has been this weird mix of americana and weird anime bullshit aesthetically and I feel like I dunno if you ever fully got rid of sonic team... you would loose the weird kind of takes itself seriously anime bullshit part. Even Ian flynn talks about this about how he writes those books so good. And I dunno, I feel like they would just try and remove all that. Not everyone who would come on would be an Ian flynn or a whitehead who would get that. I feel like having a team that's around to make sure stuff stays on brand and to keep shit kinda weird would be good.

I dunno, just me
It's hard to say. In my opinion Sonic Adventure 2 is the only takes itself too seriously, this shit makes no sense, why the fuck is it so good vibe in the series.

But that vibe is dead. I don't see how the series could get worse unless they go full on sonic movie but I have more faith in another game studio lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,649
It's hard to say. In my opinion Sonic Adventure 2 is the only takes itself too seriously, this shit makes no sense, why the fuck is it so good vibe in the series.

But that vibe is dead. I don't see how the series could get worse unless they go full on sonic movie but I have more faith in another game studio lol
I don't expect that unless they make a sonic movie game, or the movie is so succeessful they decide to turn sonic into that...

As for another dev I I agree
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,935
What’s the consensus on Sonic special stages? I didn’t grew up with a Genesis and didn’t play the trilogy until the GC Collection. I’m currently playing through Sonic Mania and IMO this game’s version of the special stages are by far the best. The most fun, the most challenging yet fair, the most varied and I never grow tired of them. Even the music is fucking amazing.

The one thing I hate is that every time I’m about to fail I either have to forfeit that giant ring or have to exit the game, relaunch it, wait for the damn title screen to let me skip it (why do I have to watch the entire title screen animation?), go into the level again and walk to the giant ring again (good luck trying that if you’re on an Act 2 though).

Am I doing it right or is there a better way to quickly retry these special stages upon failing?
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,583
What’s the consensus on Sonic special stages? I didn’t grew up with a Genesis and didn’t play the trilogy until the GC Collection. I’m currently playing through Sonic Mania and IMO this game’s version of the special stages are by far the best. The most fun, the most challenging yet fair, the most varied and I never grow tired of them. Even the music is fucking amazing.

The one thing I hate is that every time I’m about to fail I either have to forfeit that giant ring or have to exit the game, relaunch it, wait for the damn title screen to let me skip it (why do I have to watch the entire title screen animation?), go into the level again and walk to the giant ring again (good luck trying that if you’re on an Act 2 though).

Am I doing it right or is there a better way to quickly retry these special stages upon failing?
Best way IMO is beat the game, and then do the Special Stages using the stage that has a ring closer to the start (for example, Green Hill act 1).

My fav ones are the Sonic CD ones btw, provided you play them in the remake with proper framerate.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,682
No idea about consensus, but my hard stance on special stages has been they kinda smell.

With the caveat that Sonic Mania, Sonic 3 and Sonic1 Master System are cool with me.
The rest meanwhile can burn.
 
Sep 28, 2018
317
SEGA places second in Metacritic’s game publisher rankings. Sonic Mania Plus is their highest scoring game of 2018

SEGA released 30 distinct titles with a total of 41 products. The best overall release was Sonic Mania Plus for the Nintendo Switch which had a Metacritic score of 91 and was also cited as the users’favorite with a 8.9 rating. The best new IP was Two Point Hospital with a Metacritic score of 83. Shining Resonance Refrain, a game we cited as a disappointing release and earned a C+ in our review, was the lowest rated title from SEGA with a score of 67.
Metacritic said:
Sega landed in our top 3 for the third time in four years (with the exception coming in a year when Sega failed to release enough games to qualify for our “major” publishers group). That’s especially impressive given that Sega released more distinct titles than all but one other publisher in 2018. Note that all of Sega’s averages and totals include games published by Atlus, a recently acquired Sega subsidiary that (as of 2018) now shares top-level management with the parent company.
http://segabits.com/blog/2019/01/29/sega-places-second-in-metacritics-game-publisher-rankings/
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,241
What’s the consensus on Sonic special stages? I didn’t grew up with a Genesis and didn’t play the trilogy until the GC Collection. I’m currently playing through Sonic Mania and IMO this game’s version of the special stages are by far the best. The most fun, the most challenging yet fair, the most varied and I never grow tired of them. Even the music is fucking amazing.
Mania > Chaotix > Colors DS > 3&K > CD > 2 > 1, of the ones I care enough about to rank.