Sonic the Hedgehog Community |OT| There’s no end to this franchise!

Sciz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,452
I really like the Secret Rings OST but haven't heard much of this one before.

Nice tracks, will have to check out more from this~
It's an oddball mix of Senoue and a selection of guest composers (Jacques, Drossin, and Tallarico, among others) writing grand orchestral pieces and jamming out as hard as they can, sometimes at the same time, along with a heavy dose of Celtic and traditional English folk influences.

The boss fights sound like this, the levels sound like this and this, cutscenes sound like this, and the menus sound like this.
 

Spinluck

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
6,083
Florida
Well sort of. It's hard to blame developer ambition level when publishers set deadlines and budgets. One problem with Sonic games is that Sonic moves so fast it's hard to create enough assets so the game is long enough. That retro gamer interview by Izuka confirmed this has been a problem since Sonic Adventure 1. Notice pretty much all the games in 3d are filled with filler content which drags down the game. Only solution would be to just bite the bullet on the money and time sink making levels would be. Boost made it worse as Sonic moves faster and uses less of the levels. Interesting thing about sonic forces is that they actually went and wasted their time making excellent backgrounds to a lot of stages. Like if you boundary break the city level it's actually really detailed and well made and the objects are actually solid. The levels themselves are terrible though. Worst in the series bad.

Anyways, ever since 06 they have been reluctant to make a full priced game. Most of the games are budget games. Which is detrimental because the games by nature need a budget for quality.

But I truly believe the path they are on now is limited. When I say I want Sonic Adventure 3, I dont mean making an "adventure" game with a bunch of nonsense characters and multiple storylines tied together by a a poorly written plot, I mean making a full 3D sonic with the type of ambition Adventure 1 and 2 and 06 had. The argument if whether 06 is adventure 3 is irrelevant to me, just because they failed on their last attempt to go big doesnt mean they should quit. The goal should be redemption. Unleashed was a great idea of pivoting away from it and they tried their best but ultimately had to include the werehog so the game wasnt an hour long. It will be expensive and difficult, but Sonic will never be able to wash away it's reputation until that 3D game is finally made. Adventure 3 just gives them an goal an idea in mind. And Adventure 1 and 2 already showed that Sonic can be made in 3D. Also Im convinced it's would be an automatic selling point. If the game is decent that is.

Of course AAA publishers are very reluctant to make games that have one time cost and no micro-transactions. Honestly if it meant Sega would up the funding I wouldnt like it but they could monetize the game more. Alternate costumes could cost money, but that's as far as I would go. Im thinking more they could bring back the chao garden and make it full of monetary bullshit and see how they can bleed out of those cute chao. Gives them a bit more freedom in the fact that they could make special chao, costumes, objects, upgrades etc all cost money. And throw that shit on mobile as well for maximum profits. I dont know, money got to come from somewhere.
Thanks for this, very well said. I'd imagine this is why the Hedgehog engine was made so that streaming assets was less of an issue.

But moving forward I'd love to see where they go trying to make speed work in a 3D platforming space. I hear people say it can't be done but I'm just too stubborn to believe that. Especially when I did enjoy the Sonic Adventure games before the internet tried to ruin everything.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,797
Well sort of. It's hard to blame developer ambition level when publishers set deadlines and budgets. One problem with Sonic games is that Sonic moves so fast it's hard to create enough assets so the game is long enough. That retro gamer interview by Izuka confirmed this has been a problem since Sonic Adventure 1. Notice pretty much all the games in 3d are filled with filler content which drags down the game. Only solution would be to just bite the bullet on the money and time sink making levels would be. Boost made it worse as Sonic moves faster and uses less of the levels.
i've been thinking about this aspect a lot lately. when you look at how levels in the genesis sonic games were constructed, they were basically 128x128 "blocks" of tiles that the level designers could arrange in any number of manners to form entire levels. part of that was technical limitations of how the genesis hardware worked with tiles, but it certainly made it a lot easier to design levels as well. i wonder how well a "block" based approach could be used in a 3D game. sonic colors kinda-sorta tried this in places (most obviously the sonic simulator) but the "tile set" they used was rather small and most of those stages were purely 2D.

as it stands it seems like most of the 3D stages in sonic games are entirely modeled out from scratch. this seems to both require a lot of work by the level designers and artists, and also seems to limit making changes after the fact. i remember they had an unleashed developer blog back in the day where they talked about how it took literal days to compile lightmaps for a single day stage. if you changed the core stage geometry that meant wasting a whole lot of time rebuilding the stage lighting, so you could really only mess with dynamic objects. see also: why all the extra day acts in unleashed were either very small or basically just reused a chunk of the main stage and varied it up by using dynamic objects like moving platforms, crates, enemies, etc. that don't require rebuilding the lighting

i think more modern lighting engines plus being smarter about reusing level assets could help a lot. in particular, the sheer speed through which sonic blasts through levels means they could probably get away with reusing a lot more geometry and whatnot than they do without most people noticing or caring. idk. spitballing shit here
 

Rurouni

Member
Dec 25, 2017
497
Speaking of Engines, does anyone think Sega should with the current one for a more capable proprietary Engine? Or keep it as is?
 

ckareset

Member
Feb 2, 2018
2,940
OK
i've been thinking about this aspect a lot lately. when you look at how levels in the genesis sonic games were constructed, they were basically 128x128 "blocks" of tiles that the level designers could arrange in any number of manners to form entire levels. part of that was technical limitations of how the genesis hardware worked with tiles, but it certainly made it a lot easier to design levels as well. i wonder how well a "block" based approach could be used in a 3D game. sonic colors kinda-sorta tried this in places (most obviously the sonic simulator) but the "tile set" they used was rather small and most of those stages were purely 2D.

as it stands it seems like most of the 3D stages in sonic games are entirely modeled out from scratch. this seems to both require a lot of work by the level designers and artists, and also seems to limit making changes after the fact. i remember they had an unleashed developer blog back in the day where they talked about how it took literal days to compile lightmaps for a single day stage. if you changed the core stage geometry that meant wasting a whole lot of time rebuilding the stage lighting, so you could really only mess with dynamic objects. see also: why all the extra day acts in unleashed were either very small or basically just reused a chunk of the main stage and varied it up by using dynamic objects like moving platforms, crates, enemies, etc. that don't require rebuilding the lighting

i think more modern lighting engines plus being smarter about reusing level assets could help a lot. in particular, the sheer speed through which sonic blasts through levels means they could probably get away with reusing a lot more geometry and whatnot than they do without most people noticing or caring. idk. spitballing shit here
Speaking of Engines, does anyone think Sega should with the current one for a more capable proprietary Engine? Or keep it as is?
It's hard to say from the armchair. I don't think there will ever be a solution. In my mind they just have to bite the bullet and take the time and money to do it right. That said I'd prefer a slower sonic than boost so that might help.

In that Em Bani video about boost posted earlier he suggested they should use easier art styles. That way lighting won't be as difficult and hopefully they can make more levels. I think that would work. Of course he also suggested it be a side series so they wouldn't feel pressure to pad it out or have as great graphics . Seems like a partial solution.

If they could invest in level making technology that would be the best. But that sounds like fiction opposed to something real. I can't think of any comparable games that would need to solve this problem
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,259
Oman
I'm not keen on watching Detective Pikachu for the way the Pokemon are modled. If they went CGI/cartoony style ala Space Jam or Roger Rabbit, yeah count me in.
This is my same issue with the Sonic movie. Coming from Spiderverse, if that team were asked to make a(n/CGI) animated movie of Sonic and co. adventuring through 6-7 'zones' each with its unique artstyle, design etc. it would make for a light and fun movie with distinct visual and sound design.
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,259
Oman

Setsune

Member
Oct 27, 2017
571
The thing that gets me, assuming we've seen the actual design (there's rumors otherwise, and to be fair Sega/Paramount had only put out a single "Official" teaser that could easily be out-of-date. It wouldn't be the first time a company revealed a silhouette design, then completely changed it.), is that it's meant to ground Sonic in the real world... but it doesn't actually do that. He still, so far, looks like an out-of-place cartoon character. So it's pretty pointless.

The best theory I've heard is "China doesn't allow movies mixing cartoon and real characters, but the CG makes it close enough, and they want that sweet, sweet money."
 

WillyFive

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,729
Cute fan film with an impressive amount of great effort gone into it, reminds me of the Flash animations made by fans at Newgrounds in the 2000s.
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,259
Oman
Thanks for the video, I got 2 of the audio mods you mentioned :) BTW I would recommend also mentioning that one can add the game to Steam and make use of its Controller Config options in case they want to play the game with a DS4 or Switch controller.
Using the SCC, one could map the keyboard to the buttons on their controller and thru Steam at least, the game will register them just fine.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,809
There are images of the car customization in sonic forces apperently.

Its more involved than I thought in the sense that I thought it would just be colors
 

TheOGB

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,239
y'all ready for your worst fears to be realized/assuaged this weekend when they drop the movie trailer?
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,809
I shall customize all cars
To be Froggys
Maybe that's possible. I got the idea each car has specific customization. Maybe they can be customized into other vehicles that have been in the sonic franchise. I would like to drive shadow's dick dastardly car from sonic adventure 2, and rouges to look more like her SA2 car.

y'all ready for your worst fears to be realized/assuaged this weekend when they drop the movie trailer?
Linkin Park Numb.MP3
 

Akumatica

Member
Oct 25, 2017
949
It looks really good!
I really like your art Akumatica. You did well, and the colors are nice. The misty trails of Sonic and Tails look great.
Thank you all so much!
 

Rurouni

Member
Dec 25, 2017
497
So I saw this yesterday:



I'm assuming this is basically the new Sonic team based on SoA, a.k.a. the equivalent of Sonic Team USA?
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,809
Nice visual reference in the Team sonic racing customization trailer,to this



also there was a poster

 
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Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,809
I know, double post but its a few days later. Occasionally on the bunblecast, Ian drops whatever canon Sega is operating on and tells us about it. Apperently team dark never actually worked for gun now. That is the new sonic team mandated lore. Well " new " he was told this about 5 or 6 years ago , whilst he was working on a story and was surprised like the rest of us. You think, since they call him agent shadow... nope. It seems like a branding thing too, apparently " shadow works with no one " . All the gun help, all the gun info, all the gun stuff is apparently just happenstance. So I guess he just stole his car in Transformed. And rouge makes less sense because she literally did, but apparently never did. And omega makes sense.

Also Team Dark isn't really a team. The brand is particular apparently.

I don't know why I find this so funny but I do.
 
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