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Sonic the Hedgehog Community |OT| There’s no end to this franchise!

Oct 26, 2017
4,368
Orlando, FL
lol I'm sorry to disappoint but having not even played Vectorman and unfortunately having played all the way through that trash ass Wii U Sonic game, there is not a single SEGA character I would put below Zavok. And you're out of your mind if you think the villain of a single Sonic game that reviewed bad and sold worse is a more popular character than the leading character of two popular video games, old or not.
zavok's also in forces and mobile games, and it doesn't seem like he's going anywhere. he's had way more exposure than vectorman who never capitalized on any success. he's got some built-in popularity just by being part of the franchise, regardless of any merits on the character itself... and that's going to lead to people who don't find him completely hideous and out of place as a result.

i'm not even arguing popularity, really. just being needlessly pedantic about your point of 4 people. but it also isn't the 90s anymore and we have examples of former success not leading to present popularity. just look at bubsy.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,763
With all due respect, I don't think the requests of a tiny subset of fans on a SEGA/Sonic discord speak louder than the very loud backlash this game has gotten for dropping its SEGA characters.
A very loud backlash... among the type of hardcore gamers that post on sites like Era. Let's not pretend that the average consumer is going to look at this game and go "WTF WHERE ARE JOE MUSASHI AND GILIUS THUNDERHEAD"

Don't forget with individual reviews starting off with "Sonic hasn't had a good couple of years except for Mania"
It really is amazing how nearly every Sonic review has to start off with some variation of that exact sentence. Maybe this time they'll mix it up with a mention of the movie fiasco.

I'm not willing to tolerate this Vectorman libel. Y'all put some respect on his name.
he is LITERALLY a garbage man
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,352
zavok's also in forces and mobile games, and it doesn't seem like he's going anywhere. he's had way more exposure than vectorman who never capitalized on any success. he's got some built-in success just by being part of the franchise, regardless of any merits on the character itself... and that's going to lead to people who don't find him completely hideous and out of place as a result.

i'm not even arguing popularity, just being needlessly pedantic about your point of 4 people. but it also isn't the 90s anymore and we have examples of former success not leading to present popularity. just look at bubsy.
We also have examples of no success leading to further no success. That of course being Zavok, whom actual Sonic fans (including many in this thread) bemoan every time SEGA puts him in something for no reason. The Deadly Six are unpopular villains from an unpopular game even within the scope of just the Sonic fanbase, not to mention the many former SEGA fans who don't like modern Sonic.

Vectorman, on the other hand, is the titular character of two successful video games. We might as well stop here because we could argue for days and you're never going to convince me that the former is the better roster choice in a kart racer than the latter. Making this game Sonic only was a downgrade no matter how you want to frame it.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,368
Orlando, FL
We also have examples of no success leading to further no success. That of course being Zavok, whom actual Sonic fans (including many in this thread) bemoan every time SEGA puts him in something for no reason. The Deadly Six are unpopular villains from an unpopular game even within the scope of just the Sonic fanbase, not to mention the many former SEGA fans who don't like modern Sonic.
which is again, opinions from a vocal and passionate, but actually small minority of the actual audience of the games. and at this point we're just arguing stuff so far removed from the original point that i'll stop, but i actually can name four people from the known universe who don't actually care about vectorman, to the point that they'd probably pick dragonman over him.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,368
Orlando, FL
Vectorman, on the other hand, is the titular character of two successful video games. We might as well stop here because we could argue for days and you're never going to convince me that the former is the better roster choice in a kart racer than the latter. Making this game Sonic only was a downgrade no matter how you want to frame it.
i will get angry about this though

because i've already said i would prefer a sega racer.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,417
Vectorman was big for a hot minute. Doesn't have any kind of a legacy, but anecdotally I can say there's a small crowd that'd be jazzed to see him show up in a broader crossover title. TSR just ain't it, and that's fine.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,352
which is again, opinions from a vocal and passionate, but actually small minority of the actual audience of the games. and at this point we're just arguing stuff so far removed from the original point that i'll stop, but i actually can name four people from the known universe who don't actually care about vectorman, to the point that they'd probably pick dragonman over him.
You got me. I will admit that my claim was not statistically valid and was an exaggeration to make fun of the fact that nearly nobody, including Sonic fans, gives a shit about Zavok.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,368
Orlando, FL
You got me. I will admit that my claim was not statistically valid and was an exaggeration to make fun of the fact that nearly nobody, including Sonic fans, gives a shit about Zavok.
i'll accept this only because i can't argue with it in an annoying way that just makes everyone like me even less than they already do.

we'll both just have to take solace in the fact that zavok is only in because this is a sonic racer, not because he's got any actual value over NiGHTS or the chuchus.
 
Nov 24, 2017
2,937
Not sure where this slander for VectorMan popped up from, but he is absolutely a well-liked character. Both in and out of retro gaming scenes. I think he has only really come up a lot because he was absolutely beyond perfect for Transformed. He literally turns into a race car and flying vehicles in his games already.

Characters like Gilius Thunderhead are absolutely popular too, but if you really wanted to pull people in you would have characters people obsess over like Kazuma Kiryu, Bayonetta, Segata Sanshiro and Ryo Hazuki. Any one of those characters would have brought in a good chunk of fans that otherwise do not have any interest in this game. And there absolutely are more beyond that.

I stand by my feelings that Sonic, Robotnik and Tails are the only characters that are distinctly needed in a game like this. Do you really think huge Sonic fans that lined up to play the last dozen or so games without most of this game's cast in it are going to boycott this game for skipping out on Cream?

Also, Project X Zone 1 and 2 did great without Sonic characters in it. Even after like 90% of the diehard Sonic community complained about that too. People are really underselling the appeal of SEGA's IPs here.

Zavok is the only real dud in the cast. As for the rest of the "nobodies", I frequent the Sega Heroes Discord and I can tell you that requests for more Sonic characters like Silver and Blaze are far greater than those for other IP (which sucks for me because apparently nobody wants the ChuChus or a Kapu Kapu).
What about the chao? and Omega?

I am a mod in that discord and have seen the requests. Silver and Blaze are high, but the most requested characters are not Sonic related. Not sure if I am allowed to discuss who is, but there are several above those two. Beyond that as far as Sonic goes there are dozens of other non-Sonic characters requested after the third most requested Sonic character.

Also keep in mind that just because someone is highly requested does not mean they will happen or that they are even viable. Like say, Miku Hatsune probably aint happenin' especially considering she is not a SEGA character.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,397
Oman
I've played devil's advocate for Team Sonic Racing by slandering the good name of Vectorman... but at what cost?



chao haters think just because they have one of their own on the mod team, they can say whatever they like without facing the repercussions

WELL WE'RE NOT GONNA STAND FOR IT

CHAO LOVERS, RISE UP
I AND PROFESSOR BEEF WILL FOREVER BE BY YOUR SIDE; THE RIGHTEOUS SIDE OF CHAO
 
Nov 30, 2017
6,709
Ended up getting the Switch version of TSR on Switch against my better judgement. Looks like there's a Day 1 patch, but from what I played, it's actually pretty stable so far.

If you're comfortable with ASRT, this pretty much controls identically.

Edit: Also, fuck Chao.
 
Oct 29, 2017
3,163
Whereas Forces had a mediocre story and gameplay, TSR has a mediocre roster.

No lie, I would welcome a playable Black Doom in a heartbeat.

Or a team of Zeti.

Or fucking Infinite.

Hell, Sticks was in the Olympics game. We should have gotten her.

Oh and there's a final boss in the game

It's the Death Egg Robot.... yay :|

Man, there better be DLC. lol
 
May 1, 2018
154
Whereas Forces had a mediocre story and gameplay, TSR has a mediocre roster.

No lie, I would welcome a playable Black Doom in a heartbeat.

Or a team of Zeti.

Or fucking Infinite.

Hell, Sticks was in the Olympics game. We should have gotten her.

Oh and there's a final boss in the game

It's the Death Egg Robot.... yay :|

Man, there better be DLC. lol
I really wish they got weird with the roster. Give us Tikal, Chaos, Elise, Mephiles, Infinite, Maria, etc. I have no idea why the roster is so small, I imagine they had a smaller budget for this game than the previous two kart racers.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,492
Whereas Forces had a mediocre story and gameplay, TSR has a mediocre roster.

No lie, I would welcome a playable Black Doom in a heartbeat.

Or a team of Zeti.

Or fucking Infinite.

Hell, Sticks was in the Olympics game. We should have gotten her.

Oh and there's a final boss in the game

It's the Death Egg Robot.... yay :|

Man, there better be DLC. lol
What makes that spoiler even worse is that

Infinite sound effects are in the game. If they go unused in any regard, ifninite might be officially dead and they legit yanked him out

Also I dunno what the deal with sticks is , I hope she ain't gone like infinite

I really wish they got weird with the roster. Give us Tikal, Chaos, Elise, Mephiles, Infinite, Maria, etc. I have no idea why the roster is so small, I imagine they had a smaller budget for this game than the previous two kart racers.
You will never get maria or elise, but yeah I wish it was more weird.

But the answer to your question , yeah budget. Lot of the stages are stages from older games. Which sucks because I wish the got more weird with the stages.
 
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Nov 24, 2017
2,937
I was shocked when I saw the size of the base roster. Mostly just because these characters are all really basic and obvious but also because I thought the point of a game like this was specifically to reach in and bring back unique stuff. Early promotional content was referencing pretty obscure stuff so it seemed like that would be the case for the rest of the game.

I wish they were more upfront that the game is just an original Sonic game with some minor references. The thought of a Sonic only Sumo crossover game had people thinking we would get wild shit like Void, Tikal, Studiopolis Zone and deep cuts like a track from Spinball. Hell, there is not even anything openly all that based on Sonic R, so like, what the hell?

Also bad news for the folks here but I think after this game general people will really start to warm up to Zavok. Sorry guys! #2 big bad in the Sonicverse is here to stay.
 
Dec 8, 2017
4,280
I'm guessing SEGA wants more recurring villains than just Eggman and Metal Sonic, so they keep pushing Zavok. It's incredibly obvious that the Deadly Six were intended to be Sonic's Koopalings, and it didn't work, but they're keeping the leader around.
 
Oct 27, 2017
511
Zavok killed Cream and took her slot. Yes, she was originally on Team Eggman.

I just don't understand why they're already knocking down the hope of DLC characters, unless they're scared it'll hurt sales for people to expect them. ASRT had a bunch of added characters. They really should, if possible, go the Mario Kart 8 route and jam in a bunch of characters slotting into 7-8 "classes" (if the drivers even have stats at all). Maybe they just don't talk as much?
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,368
Orlando, FL
None of the Sega Sumo racers have had significant DLC. The PC version of ASRT got a lot of little free updates over time, but actual paid DLC was just Ryo and that weird Yogscast thing that I think we'd be better off forgetting.

TSR really does seem like more of a budget entry, and I'm skeptical they'd keep the team around to develop more for it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,492
I have no idea what is planned beyond Tuesday's release outside of basic patches but I know for a fact Sumo pushed hard to have serious DLC expansions in past games. SEGA just was never interested for whatever reason.
Seems strange.

Even with the main games. Generations could have had DLC stages and characters free, but, eh they decided not to. They have gotten marginally better about it , but yeah
 
Nov 24, 2017
2,937
Seems strange.

Even with the main games. Generations could have had DLC stages and characters free, but, eh they decided not to. They have gotten marginally better about it , but yeah
It might be a Japanese thing. SEGA's Japanese games for whatever reason never have anything beyond basic DLC extras. I think Unleashed's poor DLC sales spooked them when it comes to Sonic, perhaps? Meanwhile their Western PC games get expansions all of the time and do really well.

I stand by my opinion that Generations DLC would have been absolutely HUGE, even if it was just retooled stuff from the Nintendo 3DS game ported up. Hell, an updated version of Generations with minor additions would have easily outsold Lost World and Rise of Lyric on Wii U I think, and obviously even better on Xbox One/PlayStation 4. I cannot believe something like that never happened. It is so obvious and so easy compared to making a fully new game.
 
Oct 27, 2017
511
None of the Sega Sumo racers have had significant DLC. The PC version of ASRT got a lot of little free updates over time, but actual paid DLC was just Ryo and that weird Yogscast thing that I think we'd be better off forgetting.
Okay, yes, that is the extent of the paid DLC (although you're forgetting Metal Sonic and the Outrun stage). But 5 characters on top of that is nothing to sneeze at, even though they were clearly lower-budget (simpler transformations usually). Paid or not, that's a sizeable amount of DLC all-together.

TSR really does seem like more of a budget entry, and I'm skeptical they'd keep the team around to develop more for it.
But it's also not something that would require a full team.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,368
Orlando, FL
Okay, yes, that is the extent of the paid DLC (although you're forgetting Metal Sonic and the Outrun stage). But 5 characters on top of that is nothing to sneeze at, even though they were clearly lower-budget (simpler transformations usually). Paid or not, that's a sizeable amount of DLC all-together.

But it's also not something that would require a full team.
I'm not forgetting Metal Sonic and Outrun, just kind of dismissing it since it was basically given away for the bulk of the game's sales and available on Day 1. The original All Stars had more significant post launch DLC with the Death Egg and Metal Sonic tracks, and nothing much came of that either.

I'm not saying give up all hope, just that there's a fairly clear precedent of Sumo's racers not getting real DLC despite them very clearly wanting to provide post-launch support.
 
Nov 24, 2017
2,937
Valkyria Chronicles 4 had a significant amount of DLC though...some of it a little overpriced (especially in Japan). Wasn't Judge Eyes also getting some DLC before the Pierre Taki arrest?
No, I am talking expansions, not minor extras. Sumo wanted to do huge DLC sets and had the resources ready and planned for such things if they were comissioned for it, SEGA just never wanted them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
768
No, I am talking expansions, not minor extras. Sumo wanted to do huge DLC sets and had the resources ready and planned for such things if they were comissioned for it, SEGA just never wanted them.
I'm not saying I fully agree with VC4 being minor, but I'd wager SEGA just doesn't want to pay for significant extra content that takes time and resources. It's a shame and it's another example of their strict budgeting issues that hurts the potential of their products.
 
Nov 24, 2017
2,937
I'm not saying I fully agree with VC4 being minor, but I'd wager SEGA just doesn't want to pay for significant extra content that takes time and resources. It's a shame and it's another example of their strict budgeting issues that hurts the potential of their products.
Awhile back Mike Hayes said something to the effect of after three weeks they move on from their games forever. He did a lot of good for the company but that comment genuinely pissed me off. SEGA clearly cares more about their older releases now for sure, but I feel as if some of this mentality is still around.

I have no idea why Iizuka referenced games like Splatoon and Overwatch when talking about Team Sonic Racing. Like 90% of what makes those interesting is their longform support.
 
Oct 25, 2017
768
Awhile back Mike Hayes said something to the effect of after three weeks they move on from their games forever. He did a lot of good for the company but that comment genuinely pissed me off. SEGA clearly cares more about their older releases now for sure, but I feel as if some of this mentality is still around.

I have no idea why Iizuka referenced games like Splatoon and Overwatch when talking about Team Sonic Racing. Like 90% of what makes those interesting is their longform support.
I think mentality just stems from old (and rather still active) Japanese game business mentality that lifetime sales only matter for the first month, then they're done. It might not be as practical in this day and age, but at the same time, I don't want them fully going Games as a Service route. Something more substantial in post-launch content would be appreciated at least.

Iizuka makes a lot of references, but he either doesn't quite fully understand the concepts or he's stuck with what SEGA gives him. Which is weird because Sonic Team does make PSO2 and that has a lot of longtime content...but I suppose that's a different situation, given that it is F2P.