Sonic the Hedgehog Community |OT| There’s no end to this franchise!

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,386
Oman
Heh, anyone else seen the Dreamcast that was snuck into Alpha Protocol? You can see it in the Rome hub at least
 

Baladium

Member
Apr 18, 2018
2,090
Carbonated Chemical Zone
I threw together a playlist of every single Sonic mix from the series for a friend a while ago, which I don't think I ever posted here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJqcwtJOW8w&list=PLF1W0xSS-RF25oRJAeADlQO_YufE687UJ&index=2&t=0s
Awesome, thanks! :D

Have we heard anything on if Mario and Sonic 2020 will be bringing back the dream events? If I remember right those were missing from the last entry
Yes! Karate, racing, and shooting are confirmed so far, with hopefully more to come. Rio 2016 only had three Dream Events though, so we’ll see.
 

Rocha

Member
Jul 5, 2019
95
Brazil
Wow, i completely forgot that Tails Adventures was a metroidvania. I've been playing some games in the Gems Collection, what are you guys thoughts on Sonic Fighters? After finishing Tails Adventures i think Fighters will be next.
 

Seven Force

Member
Nov 30, 2017
7,102
Fighters is honestly a fun time waster. Feels like VF Kids with a Sonic twist.

AM2 re-implementing Honey in the HD ports is still one of the most random, but welcome additions I can recall in recent memory.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,400
On onehand Forces was so bad I think they ran out of chances. On the other hand Forces was so bad, they sort of have to do something new so I'm intrigued
They are in a weird spot. Forces has effectively turned people off of boost and classic sonic in modern sonic games. This in combination with mania existing has caused certain sections of more casual fans, former fans and super fans of of say the adventure era to go " Why can't we also just get the thing we want " . Which is a good question we will get back to. Adding onto that, there's been a rise of interest in remaking and reengaging with old video game content and the desire to see adventure remakes and a return to that form has risen in general and kinda desire to see sonic's friends back because now that we have been though years of them being gone everyone realized it wasn't them and they had been gone so long they wrapped back around to being fondly remembered.

Its a sorta early 00's powder keg we got going.

So like the issue is like... for the past forever in a half their stance on that was " we are done with that " but its clear they realized what the room is saying so they have been slowly at their own pace trying to go back into that direction. Poorly. And the people look at mania and go " Why can't we just have the thing we want in 3d" its a good question. You don't gotta make a sonic adventure 3, nor do I want that but like a cool fun 3d sonic with some other playable dudes...sounds like a cool time.

While all that's happening, people are developing fan engines. And initially these are largely uninteresting and just physic's test. And then recently they got VERY Interesting. There are levels, with level designs. There are multiple playable characters with different abilities. There's one where while the engine only has sonic and shadow playable feels better than all the boost games.... It might feel better than every 3d sonic. And shadow has time stop abilities. Now obviously these are not whole games and those things take time.

But I feel like sonic team is in a weird place and i'm intruiged as to where its going, because we are quickly approaching a point where the answer to " Why can't we just get the thing they want " is... sonic team and sega management. Because I dunno, if someone decides "... hey screw this i'm going to just put in my own characters and make a game" and it feels better than every 3d sonic that exists. And those characters actually have good designs. I think its at the point where it will just eat sonic's lunch. They are quickly reaching a point where they have to justify their own existence.
 

Lant_War

The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
7,720
They are in a weird spot. Forces has effectively turned people off of boost and classic sonic in modern sonic games. This in combination with mania existing has caused certain sections of more casual fans, former fans and super fans of of say the adventure era to go " Why can't we also just get the thing we want " . Which is a good question we will get back to. Adding onto that, there's been a rise of interest in remaking and reengaging with old video game content and the desire to see adventure remakes and a return to that form has risen in general and kinda desire to see sonic's friends back because now that we have been though years of them being gone everyone realized it wasn't them and they had been gone so long they wrapped back around to being fondly remembered.

Its a sorta early 00's powder keg we got going.

So like the issue is like... for the past forever in a half their stance on that was " we are done with that " but its clear they realized what the room is saying so they have been slowly at their own pace trying to go back into that direction. Poorly. And the people look at mania and go " Why can't we just have the thing we want in 3d" its a good question. You don't gotta make a sonic adventure 3, nor do I want that but like a cool fun 3d sonic with some other playable dudes...sounds like a cool time.

While all that's happening, people are developing fan engines. And initially these are largely uninteresting and just physic's test. And then recently they got VERY Interesting. There are levels, with level designs. There are multiple playable characters with different abilities. There's one where while the engine only has sonic and shadow playable feels better than all the boost games.... It might feel better than every 3d sonic. And shadow has time stop abilities. Now obviously these are not whole games and those things take time.

But I feel like sonic team is in a weird place and i'm intruiged as to where its going, because we are quickly approaching a point where the answer to " Why can't we just get the thing they want " is... sonic team and sega management. Because I dunno, if someone decides "... hey screw this i'm going to just put in my own characters and make a game" and it feels better than every 3d sonic that exists. And those characters actually have good designs. I think its at the point where it will just eat sonic's lunch. They are quickly reaching a point where they have to justify their own existence.
Sonic is a cockroach. It can't die
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,400
Sonic is a cockroach. It can't die
Instantaneously, no. Because no one has ever entered the exact same like aesthetic market as he has sucesfully. Even if someone does, sonic is still is a name right , people know him. However as demonstrated with game sales you can't ride the wave of notoriety forever. But more so , if someone decides to go "hey I liked 3d sonic I liked its characters I'm going to try and capture that feeling because I can't really get that in modern sonic. And successfully does , sonic's marketshare is gonna erode. Like there are some adults who grew up with him who will always have a fondness but they aren't the primary audience. Its kids, kids are fickle.

Sonics place as a thing exists in this weird east meets west , anime meets rubberhose thing that has yet to be replicated. And in 3d gameplay in some of its most memorable and effective forms its this trick focused speed based platformer. But I don't think that's forever. Someone is gonna figure out how to do it, its how these things go. DC inspired other prints and while it did absorb some of those prints via dubious legal means ( there was a moment where captain marvel/shazzam was more popular than superman and through legal they destroyed that ) but eventually marvel and shit came along figured it out. Sonic's existence is predicated on the notion right now, that no one else as of currently has got it and huge companies until recently weren't even investing in the 3d platformed space. But now they are starting to again, and indies exist.

And i'm gonna be 100% with you, if some enterprising company or group of individuals developing a game independently, figure it out and its a huge hit. And they introduce " Bladow the edgy dragon " I'm out of the door, first. First. I have no reason to think sega is going to provide an environment or even cares about the IP enough to provide that and i have no reason to think sonic team is competent enough to produce a product that makes me want to care about the IP. We are long past the point of sonic's name carrying its shit , Crash bandicoot been absent for a whole ass decade and crash sold his shit on good games. If someone figures this shit out, shits gonna erode. Why would kids with none of the reverence we have for this character stick around, why would the miserable ass adults who still like this stick around?
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
128
Sonic is a cockroach. It can't die
I really hope so.

Currently I am playing Team Sonic Racing and I am surprised at how (very) difficult the game is. I initially expected a more casual approach than Transformed, but Team Sonic Racing is similarly tough, right from the get-go. It is also a lot of fun, so this is certainly not a complaint, but the game will definitely take much more time than I anticipated. Only downside so far, in my eyes, is that the items have a stronger impact than in Transformed.

Village I really do not see how Crash has its name more built through quality than Sonic. Yes, Crash had three really good games (1, 2 and XS) but it also had a lot of middling (e.g. Crash 3-5) or outright bad (Crash of the Titans and Crash Fusion) games. This is in fact pretty similar to the Sonic situation.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,400
.

Village I really do not see how Crash has its name more built through quality than Sonic. Yes, Crash had three really good games (1, 2 and XS) but it also had a lot of middling (e.g. Crash 3-5) or outright bad (Crash of the Titans and Crash Fusion) games. This is in fact pretty similar to the Sonic situation.
I wouldn't say it is. Because crash has been largely absent and crashes games when they were coming out... weren't horribly embarrassing. Crash largely went away for a very long period of time and them came back selling millions of copies because those remakes were good. Now To be fair to you, they are remakes. Activisions says they are investing in more crash and spyro and when its Original content maybe people vacate en masse. That could be true, that has happened in other forms of media. But I don't think so. They are gonna remember those recent good games and buy the new good game.

Edit: Unless I got inaccurate info, the last crash game was just over over a decade ago before the remakes

Sonic was present the whole time releasing content of various quality widdling down what value it had as a brand for years
 

Lant_War

The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
7,720
I really hope so.

Currently I am playing Team Sonic Racing and I am surprised at how (very) difficult the game is. I initially expected a more casual approach than Transformed, but Team Sonic Racing is similarly tough, right from the get-go. It is also a lot of fun, so this is certainly not a complaint, but the game will definitely take much more time than I anticipated. Only downside so far, in my eyes, is that the items have a stronger impact than in Transformed.

Village I really do not see how Crash has its name more built through quality than Sonic. Yes, Crash had three really good games (1, 2 and XS) but it also had a lot of middling (e.g. Crash 3-5) or outright bad (Crash of the Titans and Crash Fusion) games. This is in fact pretty similar to the Sonic situation.
Crash 3 sold gangbusters and is considered one of the best PSX games of all time, come on.

People have a very short attention span. They've forgotten already about the bad Crash games since the N'Sane Trilogy and CTR were so praised. Same thing can happen with Sonic, they just have to stop putting out turds (in fact, they almost made it after public opinion started to change with Colors and Generations, but then Lost World, Boom and Forces happened.
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
128
Because crash has been largely absent and crashes games when they were coming out... weren't horribly embarrassing.
It's not like embarassingly bad games are a common occurence for Sonic. Sonic 06 and Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric, as well as Sonic Blast are the ones that would come to mind in my view. Considering how much larger Sonic is when compard to Crash - which still has the similarly bad Crash Fusion - I do not think this should make all that much of a difference. Sonic has quite a lot of games with middling (or worse) reception though, but outright embarassingly bad is not something I would call many Sonic games.
Crash 3 sold gangbusters and is considered one of the best PSX games of all time, come on.
I wasn't talking sales. Crash 3 has like 40% junk content and the other 60% are not nearly as tight as Crash 1 & 2. With 40% junk content it could well be part of the Sonic Adventure series.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,400
People have a very short attention span. They've forgotten already about the bad Crash games since the N'Sane Trilogy and CTR were so praised. Same thing can happen with Sonic, they just have to stop putting out turds (in fact, they almost made it after public opinion started to change with Colors and Generations, but then Lost World, Boom and Forces happened.
See I agree with this. If sonic just started putting out consistent 3d bangers, they only people would be complaining is old heads wanting to start shit. I just don't have any faith in the people in charge to be able to do that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,030
It's not like embarassingly bad games are a common occurence for Sonic. Sonic 06 and Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric, as well as Sonic Blast are the ones that would come to mind in my view.
shadow, 06, secret rings, black knight, forces, all the sonic boom games, chronicles. people weren't big on heroes or lost world either, even if they don't reach the sheer abyssal quality of the others. even unleashed is considered a steaming turd to a lot of people (unfairly, but, you know). pretty much the only sonic games from the past 20 years with a positive reputation are, what? mania, colors, generations? maybe rush?
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
128
shadow, 06, secret rings, black knight, forces, all the sonic boom games, chronicles. people weren't big on heroes or lost world either, even if they don't reach the sheer abyssal quality of the others. even unleashed is considered a steaming turd to a lot of people (unfairly, but, you know). pretty much the only sonic games from the past 20 years with a positive reputation are, what? mania, colors, generations? maybe rush?
I agree that Shadow, 06, Black Knight and the Wii U Boom are bad games (Chronicles as well, but that's definitely a spin-off), but I do not think Shadow and Black Knight match the discriptor "embarassingly bad". The 3DS Boom games, Heroes, Lost World and, of course and especially Sonic Unleashed I would claim are still servicable, good, or, in the case of Unleashed, even great games. But yes, the public perception is different.
 

Supaidaman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
362
See I agree with this. If sonic just started putting out consistent 3d bangers, they only people would be complaining is old heads wanting to start shit. I just don't have any faith in the people in charge to be able to do that.
That's why I'm so sad with the current state of the franchise. The only possible good thing I can see on the horizon is maybe a Mania 2 but I'm afraid they can somehow manage to screw even that up.

Though, as I said earlier, the franchise is in a weird spot now. We don't see a lot of games and all of them are budget titles. And I feel that Sonic Team truly does not want to make Sonic games anymore and would rather try something new.
 

ckareset

Member
Feb 2, 2018
3,764
That's why I'm so sad with the current state of the franchise. The only possible good thing I can see on the horizon is maybe a Mania 2 but I'm afraid they can somehow manage to screw even that up.

Though, as I said earlier, the franchise is in a weird spot now. We don't see a lot of games and all of them are budget titles. And I feel that Sonic Team truly does not want to make Sonic games anymore and would rather try something new.
They are gonna make Generations 2 but with fixed 2D physics. Too scared and cheap to make anything else, and gives them some baseline guarantee of success
 

Rurouni

Member
Dec 25, 2017
535
In a perfect world we'd have mainline Sonic games with actual budget and spaced out release timeframes to give them well needed polish (similar to Nintendo's approach to 3D Mario). :/

don't think the current team is really capable of making a good game in that vein.
I'm still skeptical of the current team still being the same with the whole restructured news regarding SoJ post-release of Forces. It wouldn't surprise me if the staff leading the next Sonic project for 2021 are different.
 
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CoolestSpot

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,642
They should just annouce an offical SAGE type thing, were SEGA let's any developer pitch a sonic spinoff starring a sonic friend, in various genres, and release them over the next ten years
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,400
I feel like this is what we were saying about Forces.

I don't think the current team is really capable of making a good game in that vein.
That's the thing though, forces ruined the garuntee. It ruined all the garuntees except the the two things the took chances on. The least reads " Other playable guy, character customization and a couple of the levels looked kinda cool " and the ones that looked cool were the ones that were non traditional. They cannot go back to their usual wells. Its why iizuka's been talking about remakes and shit and the last racing games was so sonic heroes inspired.

They gotta do something. And I hope it isn't crash and burn. But they have to do something, why are classic sonic marks gonna buy classic sonic in 3d if mania exists , they gonna ask for mania for mania 2. you can't just have the have the characters be in the background, you done already broke the sonic only streak and mania exists and its the exact thing those people wanted. Less incentive to buy if you know if you hold out long enough they might just pay people to make the game you want. What's left boost? That's fine as a premise, but they screwed it up so bad the next game is gonna have to look insane using or people will just be burnt out on it.

They gotta figure something out, my suggestion is sonic team becomes more brand management. They let other folks make sonic games, there are around to make sure shit doesn't get too off brand. That's it.
 

Setsune

Member
Oct 27, 2017
633
I'm in the camp of "Outside US team makes Unreal Engine remake of Sonic Adventure, bigger and brighter for modern audiences, which is why they brought back Hiroshi Nishiyama, hopefully they're treated better than BigRedButton, while Somebody starts work on the big new approach to Sonic that will come much later".

Hey SEGA

Can you port Sonic Generations to the switch

Kthx
No, because they always negotiate these super short-term contracts to use the music for a limited set of releases. And who was going to care about Generations years later, right?
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,400
I'm in the camp of "Outside US team makes Unreal Engine remake of Sonic Adventure, bigger and brighter for modern audiences, which is why they brought back Hiroshi Nishiyama, hopefully they're treated better than BigRedButton, while Somebody starts work on the big new approach to Sonic that will come much later".
I would totally be done with " This team remakes sa1 and 2 to see if they can hack it and if they can give em more shit "

Also you know chao world in hd and shit
 

ckareset

Member
Feb 2, 2018
3,764
I would totally be done with " This team remakes sa1 and 2 to see if they can hack it and if they can give em more shit "

Also you know chao world in hd and shit
The question is how much would you remake. Adventure series is ambitious in scope, graphics, and story. You could do obvious fixes like get the physics right, remove bugs, fix the radar in SA2, stuff like that. But what aboutcutscenes and voice acting? Gonna keep all 6 stories? It's so much work. And it's a shame they stopped putting that much effort in their games. (Besides unleashed)
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,400
The question is how much would you remake. Adventure series is ambitious in scope, graphics, and story. You could do obvious fixes like get the physics right, remove bugs, fix the radar in SA2, stuff like that. But what aboutcutscenes and voice acting? Gonna keep all 6 stories? It's so much work. And it's a shame they stopped putting that much effort in their games. (Besides unleashed)
'
Are you asking me or in general. Because if you are asking me. I have two very specific answers for both of those games
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,400
Uh I'll try and do both then. Oh boy get ready for lotta words

SA1:

So like my main issue with SA1 is the level designs. So the levels are designed in segments , you do a segment you load up do another segments. Its what made sonic's level feel incredibly long. The issue with it is not all of these segments were good and were often just other characters levels so they felt bad playing through them depending on which character you were.
And I get why, the story is supposed to feel like everything is happening at the same time , all these characters converging at these points, and I value that as a feeling I think its one of the best parts of sa1. It feels like the characters were just missing each other you know? So instead of designing a giant track cut off into sections that also need to be designed for other characters like a loaf of bread. I would make Big/wide levels split into sections like a pizza. This would result in some shorter levels but I feel like those sections would be specifically designed for each character.

Like for example the amusement park level right, instead of being one track that all the characters share. Each character would start in a different section of the amusement park. Their sections for the most part wouldn't be shared, maybe if you wanna steal something from DMC5 of all things maybe there are like some parts of the corse where you can see the other characters doing their thing. And maybe you can insentivise playing good because maybe if you get there fast enough or slow enough you catch the character and they help you do something. But the sections of the levels would be specifically designed for each character. Shorter but better. There were plenty of times where I felt like sonic's levels went on way to long and stopped being fun and this sort of puts a stop to that.

As far as story goes, you keep it the same. Its fine, 2 is what need corrections and i'll get to that. The only advice I would give is, you don't really need big playable. Just have fishing and occasionally whoever you are playing as can go talk to him.

Back on some gameplay stuff though there is two people I wanna adress in particular gamma and amy.

This is a bit vague but make gamma's game play a bit more involved. Gamma's story might be the best 1 in one so loosing him would be really bad but do something interesting with his gameplay to justify keeping him around. Maybe something with a combo counter or something? Honestly I haven't thought to hard about this.

Amy's a bit more intricate. In the year of lord 2019 or whenever this hypothetical game would release. It would kinda suck that the only two girls would be a ghost and one who's entire gameplay cosists of running away. It would be really cool if amy was more action oriented , the story being told through her gameplay isn't a girl running away but bashing her way through eggman robots. It would make her look cool and capable and honestly a lot more interesting than her previous gameplay. And with the big green robot I think it would be an interesting dynamic that instead of the robot wanting the animal and she's just kind of running. The cool part of that robot in the first game is when it would just show up out of nowhere. So the previous levels would consist of amy casually beating the shit out of that robot and it just kept coming back in theme with whatever level you are playing. Instead of it being kind of scary amy was just...kinda annoyed about it. You could even have a cool seen where it does a reverse terminator and comes out of the lava in red mountain after amy knocked it in on the previous level.

Chao world in sa1: make it more like 2's 2's is better.

That's my sa1 thoughts if you wanna hear 2, i can do that. But due to my interest in that game... might be a lotta words

Edit: I have one hot take.

Humans in sonic kinda always sucked , and I dunno it would be cooler if instead sa1 took place in animal land and there were cool animal NPC's. You could give em neat designs and it would be fine. Also from a businessman perspective there's a pretty high likely hood that one of those background characters might catch on and you could sell toys of em and stuff
 
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