Sonic the Hedgehog Community |OT| There’s no end to this franchise!

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,900
Why would it's character design be relevant. I think Sonic can survive as a brand sure, but I just don't see the 3d games surviving at this rate.
Its character designs is why its survived
A good character design can sell the shit out of a premise that might not exactly be fully formed. Character design and the characters ability to appeal to potential audiences at least for now keep his relevant. But folks are tired and they are not willing to take chances on shit products. But if a good one comes out and uses the characters they like, they will invest.
 

ckareset

Member
Feb 2, 2018
4,190
Its character designs is why its survived
A good character design can sell the shit out of a premise that might not exactly be fully formed. Character design and the characters ability to appeal to potential audiences at least for now keep his relevant. But folks are tired and they are not willing to take chances on shit products. But if a good one comes out and uses the characters they like, they will invest.
I just don't buy it. I really don't think this sonic design loving, furry drawing, oc creating fanbase is a big as people make it out to be. It's survived because the games are fun. If you see people talk about sonic it's about the games ( or how bad they are). People might like the characters designs but are very quick to notice the terrible characterization they have cause that's more important than how they look.

And Forces just reinforced. You can't just make a character like infinite and get away with it because he looks cool. You have to add the writing to it. Sega thought they had one. And they are so slick now too, thinking they've managed to successfully be self aware about the series they can add some edgy music and create something great and it didnt work. Wasn't even close.

I don't know anyone buying sonic cause the characters look cool
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,900
I just don't buy it. I really don't think this sonic design loving, furry drawing, oc creating fanbase is a big as people make it out to be. It's survived because the games are fun.
The games being fun help because you know...they sell fucking video games. But what lets sonic go beyond is that the designs are really fucking good. And the Sonic is an 06 creating fanbase. I think the furry thing is is irrelevant. Sonic himself and most of his compatriots are purposefully to be easy to draw. And has been effective in that regard in its entire lifespan. The denial of this is not only you letting your own, while reasonable, pessimism cloud your view of reality. Here on earth, sonic has an amazing design that has allowed it to last for years.

If you see people talk about sonic it's about the games ( or how bad they are). People might like the characters designs but are very quick to notice the terrible characterization they have cause that's more important than how they look.
Depends on the conversation. Because actually a lot of people are able to devorce the characters from that if they like them enough. I have never liked silver ever, but he's retained a fair bit of popularity. Because his fanbase essentially created a better version of the character that existed, and then one of those fans worked on the comics and then the people in charge liked it and stole it. So no, if the character has an endearing base, people will latch on to them and do any number of things which actually brings me to your next point.

And Forces just reinforced. You can't just make a character like infinite and get away with it because he looks cool. You have to add the writing to it. Sega thought they had one. And they are so slick now too, thinking they've managed to successfully be self aware about the series they can add some edgy music and create something great and it didnt work. Wasn't even close.
Ifinite doesn't really look cool or have an endearing base. Yes character design and visual design is important, but that doesn't mean it can't be bad. I would argue the zeti are also bad. But on infinite, infinite is not self aware , infinite is the game development being so crazy that he ended up changing three times throughout development and it shows. And their desire to replicate shadow. And they have been trying to do this since 2006. They keep trying to replicate shadows popularity and it didn't work, you are right it does need more. Shadow has that. And I would in ernest make the argument that no one working at sonic team now really understands how any of the old characters tick, nor do they understand how to make new ones. And yeah they could run all of those characters into the fucking dirt. But as it stands... my point stands, these characters design and their world are extremely visually interesting and when put into good products. Like sonic mania , and the comics and probably the cartoon that's supposedly coming up, people engage with them.

I don't know anyone buying sonic cause the characters look cool
Soley off the characters looking cool, I think we are far past that point. But do the characters having neat designs help sell sonic poducts when they are good... yeah.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,900
Because it worked for Silver.
It worked for silver because he's a hedgehog and people think he's cute.

And which is why I hate him. He was positioned next to two very popular characters for a while and basically gained fains via osmosis. To this day, there are people who still think shadow is his dad from the past even though on multiple occasions iizuka said otherwise. And he hangs out with blaze who is factually cooler than he ever will be. But she's around so he gets hand me down cool points

The zeti look nothing the rest of the sonic cast, not just in terms of size but they are literally aesthetically different than the rest of the sonic cast that does not fit with thier world. Isolated all to themselves for the most part. And even with what story they had , they failed to endear themselves to folks. Maybe it can change in the future. But while I don't like silver, to pretend those two are in the same boat is ....naive to say the least
 

DragonSJG

Member
Mar 4, 2019
2,831
It worked for silver because he's a hedgehog and people think he's cute.

And which is why I hate him. He was positioned next to two very popular characters for a while and basically gained fains via osmosis. To this day, there are people who still think shadow is his dad from the past even though on multiple occasions iizuka said otherwise. And he hangs out with blaze who is factually cooler than he ever will be. But she's around so he gets hand me down cool points

The zeti look nothing the rest of the sonic cast, not just in terms of size but they are literally aesthetically different than the rest of the sonic cast that does not fit with thier world. Isolated all to themselves for the most part. And even with what story they had , they failed to endear themselves to folks. Maybe it can change in the future. But while I don't like silver, to pretend those two are in the same boat is ....naive to say the least
I actually like Silver a lot, great in comics
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,900
kind of a childish opinion tbh
The only thing that needs to be scrapped is the the Generations/Forces classic sonic nonsense
Eh ,
Like I dunno ya'll taking this as some personal offense but this just seems like an eventuality to me. I read comics, I indulge in a multitutde of properties intended for teens and kids. Shit gets rebooted all the time, scraped, gotten rid of or entirely new takes concurrent with old ones. Aside from me feeling a rebootish thing on the horizon, its going to happen eventually. They might see some stuff wrong and to get back to basics they go back to the two games that got people on board. Sa1 and 2. I dunno. At some point sonic is going to be wildly different than what any of us originally desired. And I'm content with that.

Even my issues with current comic shadow isn't because he's different, its because he's supposed to be the same as the old guy. If they rebooted it or made it clear he's not inspired by previous stuff. While I wouldn't be 100% on board... i'd be fine. Same thing with everything else, personally instead of this teetering they are doing . If they just wanna change the whole shit... change. Make a big stink out of it. Restart from sa1 and 2 change them games and then change mad shit.
 

ckareset

Member
Feb 2, 2018
4,190
Eh ,
Like I dunno ya'll taking this as some personal offense but this just seems like an eventuality to me. I read comics, I indulge in a multitutde of properties intended for teens and kids. Shit gets rebooted all the time, scraped, gotten rid of or entirely new takes concurrent with old ones. Aside from me feeling a rebootish thing on the horizon, its going to happen eventually. They might see some stuff wrong and to get back to basics they go back to the two games that got people on board. Sa1 and 2. I dunno. At some point sonic is going to be wildly different than what any of us originally desired. And I'm content with that.

Even my issues with current comic shadow isn't because he's different, its because he's supposed to be the same as the old guy. If they rebooted it or made it clear he's not inspired by previous stuff. While I wouldn't be 100% on board... i'd be fine. Same thing with everything else, personally instead of this teetering they are doing . If they just wanna change the whole shit... change. Make a big stink out of it. Restart from sa1 and 2 change them games and then change mad shit.
They would have to redo Shadows death and memory stuff. Nah.

I'd just start at the comics idw start point.

And we've had like 3 reboots already lol
 
Last edited:

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,900

They would have to redo Shadows death and memory stuff. Nah.

I'd just start at the comics idw start point.

And we've had like 3 reboots already lol
For whatever reason this did not alert me of this

So you know I'm a shadow fan. You know i'm down for edgelords.
Sure , that's cool if they redo it or change it as long as he's still cool. Its gonna happen eventually , its a brand that will eventually rebrand itself because younger kids are gonna come though. As long as its cool, sure man show me your wild interpretation of the character I like. I would prefer that, then what they do now which is try to change but its still supposed to be the old character which pleases no one really.

And have we? Because we have had tone changes but the previous still exists and is referenced. And if you mean things like boom, it was a spin off series. The only reboot was the classic to modern. And I guess it was said 06 was supposed to be one, but that didn't work out nor did it reboot anything. In fact it reconned itself.

A hard committed reboot that changed a bunch of characters possibly changed the focus of what 3d sonic is about gameplay wise and changed the world would be something we haven't had in a long time.

Do I want this to happen, I dunno. But we are due for one, I feel .

Its a brand meant to last forever. They gonna do it at some point.
 

Supaidaman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
419
It's not like Sonic has a tight continuity. Concepts are introduced and forgotten all the time, a reboot would not change much imo
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,900
It's not like Sonic has a tight continuity. Concepts are introduced and forgotten all the time, a reboot would not change much imo
Tone, characterization and character designs do a lot for some and can be changed much more wildly than have been. So a reboot could change a lot actually

This isnt even to mention the crazy shit you could with sonic gameplay. Not to be rude to sonic fans, but we kinda spoiled. We out here thinking that any vague change in concept is a reboot. Nah, I have seen reboots, the shit we have gone through ain't that.
 

RomanceDawn

Member
Oct 29, 2017
892
Los Angeles
So what would happen to Sonic Team if the games they make just kept underperforming? Do they have a revolving door of employees?

Some team(darn near any team) at Nintendo would be better off making 3D Sonic. Even without those past Sonic Team employees working for Nintendo now I bet they could make something magical.

I don't know anyone buying sonic cause the characters look cool
I associate Shadow with the decline of Sonic but I do like his design. I debated whether or not to buy a $300 statue of him because I have such a conflicting opinion of him. I bought it anyway to go along with the rest.

I loath almost every Sonic game after Adventure 2 besides Mania of course. But dang it if I don't love those designs and absolutely have to have those statues of the cast. That goes for classic and modern.

At the same time I do understand what you mean. Though I wouldn't put it passed hundreds of thousands of kids in this world who buy Sonic games because the characters look cool.
 

ckareset

Member
Feb 2, 2018
4,190
I associate Shadow with the decline of Sonic
I hate when people say stuff like this. Sonic Team ditched Sonic's Friends and still failed.

At this point it's obvious the fault lies with bad development for 20 years. Cant single out one particular thing either. They havent even given us the official Forces excuses yet. We just got fan theories.

I mean if we just deleted an aspect of the games (like Shadow) what really would have changed right now. Not much. Such a singular focus that Sega somehow listens to and drops another clunker as they claim they gave the people what they wanted
 
Last edited:

Sami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,486
I'd be down for a reboot but it honestly doesn't make much of a difference to me either way. I'd be really happy if they did some redesigns though. So long they're good obviously.
 

RomanceDawn

Member
Oct 29, 2017
892
Los Angeles
I hate when people say stuff like this. Sonic Team ditched Sonic's Friends and still failed.

At this point it's obvious the fault lies with bad development for 20 years. Cant single out one particular thing either. They havent even given us the official Forces excuses yet. We just got fan theories.

I mean if we just deleted an aspect of the games (like Shadow) what really would have changed right now. Not much. Such a singular focus that Sega somehow listens to and drops another clunker as they claim they gave the people what they wanted
You know darn well what the devil I mean. I love Sonic Adventure 2 but felt there was a big step down from SA1. I enjoy Heroes and then Shadow The Hedgehog drops things off pretty far from there.

I associate Shadow with Sonic's decline, I don't equate him to it. Even still when people bring up Sonic's friends that's the last thing I'm worried about when a new game is being developed. Especially considering one of the best thing about SA2 was Shadow mirroring Sonic's gameplay.
 

Mr Swine

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
2,258
Sweden
has anyone seen this Mashed Sonic vs Rule 34? It’s funny and disturbing at the same time

 
Last edited:

Setsune

Member
Oct 27, 2017
772
has anyone seen this Mashed Sonic vs Rule 34? It’s funny and disturbing at the same time

Don't worry, we'll see it in every Gaming Forum post from here on out.

it's actually not that awful compared to some. The ending with Tentacle Rouge/Ursula was relatively tame by the usual standards. Also Eggman's 1930's animation and "Sonic help!" "I killed him!" "NOOOOO!" was pretty great. The Spyro one is still my favorite, though.
 
Last edited:

ckareset

Member
Feb 2, 2018
4,190
You know darn well what the devil I mean. I love Sonic Adventure 2 but felt there was a big step down from SA1. I enjoy Heroes and then Shadow The Hedgehog drops things off pretty far from there.

I associate Shadow with Sonic's decline, I don't equate him to it. Even still when people bring up Sonic's friends that's the last thing I'm worried about when a new game is being developed. Especially considering one of the best thing about SA2 was Shadow mirroring Sonic's gameplay.
Nope even if I know what you meant, I can't accept it. Mainly because Sega listens to these type of complaints and botches the corrections.

The only real objective flaw that isn't Sonic Teams fault is the amount of assets it takes to make a sonic game. It's really SA1 that started it all because they outsmarted themselves and botched the filler content. 20 years later, still botching the filler content. Funny thing about SA2 is that the alternative levels aren't even filler lol. They really put effort into the other characters. Missed opportunity because I think this was their best time to make the speed only game play because they already had the engine made.

20 years and I still don't have a 3D sonic only game. 20 years.
 

DragonSJG

Member
Mar 4, 2019
2,831
I hate when people say stuff like this. Sonic Team ditched Sonic's Friends and still failed.

At this point it's obvious the fault lies with bad development for 20 years. Cant single out one particular thing either. They havent even given us the official Forces excuses yet. We just got fan theories.

I mean if we just deleted an aspect of the games (like Shadow) what really would have changed right now. Not much. Such a singular focus that Sega somehow listens to and drops another clunker as they claim they gave the people what they wanted
This
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,552
Oman
So what is the history behind the first 8 bit sonic game?
Was i developed alongside the 16 but one? Why was it even developed for?
 

Setsune

Member
Oct 27, 2017
772
So what is the history behind the first 8 bit sonic game?
Was i developed alongside the 16 but one? Why was it even developed for?

The 8-bit Sonic the Hedgehog is a very loose "port" the Mega Drive version, with similar, albeit simplified gameplay and a partially different set of levels (all with new layouts). Though overseen by Sonic Team, most of the game was created by external development studio, Ancient, in their first collaboration with Sega.
I assume the reason was "We also want this big new game on our portable platform."
 

Supaidaman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
419
The Master System was still very popular in territories like the UK and Brazil. In fact, here in Brazil, we still have the console available to buy. Since SEGA was pushing the Game Gear and the architectures were similar... it made sense to release them for the MS too

Most of the GG games were released to the Master System as well. Though, some omissions were very odd like releasing Sonic Chaos and Blast to the MS but not Triple Trouble.
 

Virtua Sanus

Member
Nov 24, 2017
3,280
There have been fan ports of Triple Trouble to the Master System. It uses way, way too many colors and the sprites are far too dense for the Master System to handle correctly without heavy reworking. I suppose Sonic Blast just being a more 'flat' game helped it out there.
 

Zippo

Banned
Dec 8, 2017
5,581
People have the final review copies of Banana Blitz HD already, it seems. The game's Twitter has already revealed everything about the game with the exception of the elephant in the room.

Official Sonic reveal should be right around the corner.
 

Zippo

Banned
Dec 8, 2017
5,581
Wait, Sonic is in Banana Blitz HD? I'll day 1 it if true.
Wait u tellin me he wasnt a bonus character in any of these games before? I mean he curls up into a ball.
Nope. Not ever. They have crossed over multiple times before but not like this.
 

nbnt

Member
Oct 26, 2017
834
Oh shit, classic, even better! I'm so in. I just hope he's playable from the start.
 

Gold Arsene

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,851
I don't know what caused it exactly but I'm really starting to get back into Sonic again. Playing more of the games and just started to read the IDW comics.


Feels nice to be interested in this franchise again.
 

Sciz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,545
I don't know what caused it exactly but I'm really starting to get back into Sonic again. Playing more of the games and just started to read the IDW comics.

Feels nice to be interested in this franchise again.
Upshot of being such a long lived and prolific franchise. Even in a lull, there's going to be something you want to revisit or never really sunk your teeth into in the first place.

GameHut (Jon Burton) uploaded some of Jun Senoue's original demo tracks for Sonic 3D;
Oh shit. He'd mentioned he had these a while back, but I didn't think we'd ever get to hear them.