I feel like this is the third or fourth one of these projects I've heard about where the dev winds up being somehow unbearable.
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Sonic the Hedgehog Community |OT| There’s no end to this franchise!
- Thread starter Professor Beef
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It was a last second change when the thread was spotlighted to make everything fit in the character limit, so yeah, it's been like that for a while now.
Anyone wants to take a stab at coming up with something better—and it won't be hard—go for it.
What would you guys say are the best controlling 3D games? Official games and Fan Engines.
My Vote would have to be Sonic Adventure 2. The game had it's collision issues but I've never felt more in control of what I wanted to do. There is a strange turn arc at top speed that is almost full direction turn. Is it good or bad? I never had a problem with it. Dont think many games do that.
My computer is trash so I cant comment on fan engines much but havent seen any that looked as precise as SA2. Infintity Has the best animation, Island looks the best to play in my opinion. Utopia doesnt appeal to me control wise.
There are people who prefer SA1 though. Heroes and Shadow are slippery for no ascertainable reason. 06 has these weird momentum stop gaps. And the boost games are just different. Generations probably is the best of that style. Lost world is pretty slow, you can make some precise jumps if you want.
My Vote would have to be Sonic Adventure 2. The game had it's collision issues but I've never felt more in control of what I wanted to do. There is a strange turn arc at top speed that is almost full direction turn. Is it good or bad? I never had a problem with it. Dont think many games do that.
My computer is trash so I cant comment on fan engines much but havent seen any that looked as precise as SA2. Infintity Has the best animation, Island looks the best to play in my opinion. Utopia doesnt appeal to me control wise.
There are people who prefer SA1 though. Heroes and Shadow are slippery for no ascertainable reason. 06 has these weird momentum stop gaps. And the boost games are just different. Generations probably is the best of that style. Lost world is pretty slow, you can make some precise jumps if you want.
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I definitely think SA1 controls a lot better than SA2. For SA2 it was shockingly difficult to pull off a lot of moves, and it felt really slow and stiff. SA1 might be a little floaty, but that also means that you're quite able to do just about anything you want regarding the environment, and I love that the game rewards risk-taking with huge shortcuts, which went a long way to keeping my interest in it through speedrunning, even if I was never of the sort to go for the more elaborate glitched runs myself.
Heroes is really slippery, but at least you have the other two team members to rely on when you need to do more precision movement. Even then, the failsafes to try to keep you from just running of the edge of a platform are not very reliable. I'd put that down more to collision issues than the controls per se (flight formation loves to get stuck in the floor, doesn't it?) but it was definitely a big mistake to try to use that same sort of handling in Shadow, since there's no way to switch to more precise controls.
Heroes is really slippery, but at least you have the other two team members to rely on when you need to do more precision movement. Even then, the failsafes to try to keep you from just running of the edge of a platform are not very reliable. I'd put that down more to collision issues than the controls per se (flight formation loves to get stuck in the floor, doesn't it?) but it was definitely a big mistake to try to use that same sort of handling in Shadow, since there's no way to switch to more precise controls.
I think it's mostly that I just hold a grudge against the somersault, a move that existed only to prevent people from trying to spam the spin dash like was possible in the previous game, and which actively worsened the level design because the only way it could be justified in game was to add these tiny little gaps between floor and wall that Sonic had to slide under. Slidey bits like that are easily my least favorite recurring element of 3D Sonic games.
Also, I don't like that the bounce and the light dash are on the same button because it's very easy to be just out of range of the rings to do the light dash and just bounce into the abyss.
Also, I don't like that the bounce and the light dash are on the same button because it's very easy to be just out of range of the rings to do the light dash and just bounce into the abyss.
I really liked that somersault jump move that only had use in the biolizard boss. Felt good to do. I feel like Sonic should be given a more expansive movement even if it's useless like they do in Mario. His jump package is lacking and it would be nice to have options.
But it's not just his jump package, I think the boost games (the good ones anyways) all have moves that should be added to Adventure sonic. Fangames already do this. The sidestep, give him a drift, etc, Theoretically you could have a move for any scenario or obstacle which allows them to be more creative in obstacle design.
Bounce Bracelet was a great idea but SA2 never really used it creatively which is a reoccurring theme in Sonic Games. Light dash just looks cool but it's a staple at this point.
I dont know, I just feel like the series bleeds untapped potential in terms of control
But it's not just his jump package, I think the boost games (the good ones anyways) all have moves that should be added to Adventure sonic. Fangames already do this. The sidestep, give him a drift, etc, Theoretically you could have a move for any scenario or obstacle which allows them to be more creative in obstacle design.
Bounce Bracelet was a great idea but SA2 never really used it creatively which is a reoccurring theme in Sonic Games. Light dash just looks cool but it's a staple at this point.
I dont know, I just feel like the series bleeds untapped potential in terms of control
(Be aware they will get progressively more inane the farther down the list you go)
That Tornado's Carrying a Car...rey
Rings n Springs n Things
An Antidote to Chaos Control
We're Fuzzy and Blue
Nothing Rhymes with Eggman
Chao Bella
You've got boost power! wait wrong game
Crouching Hedghog, Hidden Palace
Zone 3 Bad Future
Marble Cinematic Universe
Lava Reefer Madness
Gimmick Mt. & Endless Whine
You must wisp it
Zavok died on the way to his home planet
Don't knack the weasel in public please
Run without magenta rhythm and you won't attract the owl
Dimps (n., pl.): Cigarette butts
There is a title about the pokemon and sonic movie somewhere. Im not clever enough to think of one
It's gonna hilarious when Sonic shits on the videogame movie goodwill gotten from the already franchised Detective Pikachu film lol. Im all for it
It's gonna hilarious when Sonic shits on the videogame movie goodwill gotten from the already franchised Detective Pikachu film lol. Im all for it
Yeah, I ranted about this fucker a few pages back. He and his friends also raided a kids Discord server and tried to scrub evidence afterwards (I believe he was banned from entering SAGE for that reason).
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sometimes i wish i were smart enough to code, then i would make my own engine
i'm also not problematic at all, my twitter is squeaky clean
i'm also not problematic at all, my twitter is squeaky clean
DP, but I think this is important enough to shine a light on.
This is tragic... Does Milton have any way for us to help him? Like a GoFundMe?
Found a link to his GoFundMe here.
https://www.gofundme.com/an-artist-survives-but-needs-help
And his Patreon from that twitter thread.
https://www.patreon.com/miltonknight
He's been in a really bad disposition for a while it seems. I had no idea. :(
They should just give Flynn the wheel at this point. I know some people don't like his work, but he has a good understanding of the series, he's spent over a decade mostly cleaning up the messes other writers left, and it's not like the series has any other amazing writers at the the moment. (Barring other IDW comic talent I'm unaware of.)
(To clarify, I just remembered the Sonic Boom cartoon writers, but that's over with now anyway.)
Yea, I agree, Flynn does get a bad rap since he has to clean the mess left by others...I don't see much complaining about his other works.
But I would like to see him and the Boom writers get a shot at a game story.
But I would like to see him and the Boom writers get a shot at a game story.
I'll definitely donate a few to his GoFundMe. I never personally liked AoSTH because it's so different from what I like about the franchise, but I respect the artistry and passion behind it. Plus, artist or not, no one deserves the bullshit he's going through.
I was thinking about this a week ago, and it seems like since then, I've noticed a fair few references and videos about Sonic Heroes again. The PC version isn't the easiest to get (officially obviously) at this point. It's not on any digital services I'm aware of. What do you think about the idea of a Sonic Heroes Deluxe?
I thought up a few ideas to improve on it. They go from "probably doable" to increasingly resource-intensive (and less realistic for a fairly low-budget port).
This is just spitballing, and I know some of it would open up giant cans of worms. But considering we've probably got a decent wait until the next Sonic game, it might be worth it?
I thought up a few ideas to improve on it. They go from "probably doable" to increasingly resource-intensive (and less realistic for a fairly low-budget port).
- PC/XB1/PS4/Switch release. Rock-solid 60 FPS (ideally higher on PC), silly resolutions where available. Proper 16:9 support.
- Menu expanded to let you pick any stage, not just every odd stage.
- I think there was something missing from Theater mode, like you couldn't watch all the cutscenes? I can't find a good video unfortunately. Also throw in the pencil tests and early intro from Sonic Mega Collection Plus.
- "Charmy_Shutup" is now something you can toggle in the Settings (named something else), turning off most of the in-level chatter.
- Graphics touch-up. Primarily new character models, some improved animations (like Sonic's broken hand during his win pose), and some other incidental things like de-chunkifying the rings. Maybe throw the textures in one of those content-aware scalers popular lately, see what comes out? Can toggle back to old models.
- Camera adjustments. Like that stupid bit in Final Fortress where there's a massive fall onto a trio rail with nothing underneath, and right before you land, the camera moves and changes your relative input.
- Mechanics tweaks. This would require some extra testing. Make Knuckles less likely to go flying off of platforms when he attacks. Let Sonic use Rocket Accel even without characters behind him. If you want to go crazy, adjust their acceleration/deceleration so they're not quite so unwieldy. (But that could cause big issues, especially with scripted sequences.)
- Get rid of the Level system entirely? Keep characters at Level 3 permanently. Or at least let players retain their level after a death.
- Let Flight Formation walk normally? It's already in the game, when the other 2 characters are occupied. Maybe holding the attack button switches between walking and tower?
- Make some of the missions less obnoxious. Especially for the Chaotix. Hermit Crab radar?
- New cutscenes. Because someone with Source Filmmaker could do better.
- "Solo Mode", you can play through the levels as either any Speed character, or any character at all. Routes are adjusted so obstructions are gone, springs bridge otherwise impossible gaps, etc.
- A Neo Metal Sonic boss fight? He literally doesn't have an in-game model, since you only ever see his first form in prerendered cutscenes. This is a huge ask, but it would be a nice treat. Maybe as the final boss to Super Hard Mode, but preferably sooner so more people actually experience it. This could unlock...
- A playable Neo Metal Sonic, who switches between "Modes" for the three roles.
- A new English dub, with some script adjustments? Getting 14 characters recorded wouldn't be cheap. At the same time, "LOOK AT ALL THOSE EGGMAN'S ROBOTS!" Old dub still included.
This is just spitballing, and I know some of it would open up giant cans of worms. But considering we've probably got a decent wait until the next Sonic game, it might be worth it?
To be fair, he didn't fix the problem. He ignored the fuck out of it. The only thing he explained is where the chaos emeralds went, everything that happened outside of the tinker thing could have been its own isolated incident... even the tinker thing tbh. And I don't think that's entierely his doing , even sega doesn't want him using infinite in the comic. Seems like he took the hint and moved past it quickly
I'm never one to just say " Give the keys" to someone because they know the lore. Plenty of people know stuff, but they don't quite know how to translate that into good content. I advocate for Ian because he does, but even more importantly. He's professional.
The man does not like everything he likes writes about, but despite that tries to present it in the best light he can because he knows someone else does. And this is something even seasoned writers in comic books, TV , film whatever forget or just choose not to care about. Even the sonic boom writers messed that up.
Flynn Gets it, but more so than that, he's professional and good and that's what more valuable to me as a consumer.
Also the man actually uses the fourth wall to actually lodge criticism instead of bad jokes .
People keep bringing up the boom writers, but there are other non flynn comic writers that work on the books now I would much rather see get shots than them tbh.
Flynn's biggest issue is having to take a bunch of disparate elements from all over the series and somehow tie them together into a longer spanning arc while also being beholden to both the license holder and the source material. Half these characters shouldn't bother showing up together so it's no wonder that he's keen to cut down the cast and focus a little more on the OCs when he gets the opportunity to.
huh?
When are you talking about exactly?
because if you mean RN I have no idea what in the world you talking about
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In general. He's always had to tie different aspects of the franchise together and a lot of it becomes tonally inconsistent when he has to bring in characters who don't normally interact with each other in the games.
He does what he has to with all those different elements but you can kind of see the shift in how he approaches the OG characters like Rough and Tumble, Tangle and Whisper, Starline and even back in the Archie days getting to mess around with complete blank slates like the Hooligans, who he was basically able to turn into his own unique creations. Compared to how he handles the Chaotix, Blaze, Shadow and even Knuckles to an extent, it feels like he's holding back and just writing based on their loose character traits rather than develop them at all.
I haven't read this month's issue but it's just something that's been on my mind after flipping through the not-Forces arc again.
I think Ian got to play around a bit more at Archie because he was coming in after guys like Penders had already firmly established that was the SatAM Universe and did all the weird stuff with Knuckles being a God and all of the hidden city backstory, plus Sonic's family (and Tails' family, etc.)
The IDW book felt really thin to me in general. Not just with the Sega characters, but with everything. Those first four issues ESPECIALLY were just the slowest, most gentle drip feed of plot in between 15 pages of action sequences. Things have started picking up a bit since then, but I guess you're right in that they feel like Ian is specifically avoiding establishing characterization. Some of that feels like "you should already know these characters" but some of it definitely feels like specific avoidance.
I wonder how much it's predicated on the fact Sonic Team has no respect for canon and has completely upended a character's personality and redefined their entire function more than once. If Ian avoids defining who Knuckles is, then it doesn't matter if one game portrays him as an angry loner, the next as a best friend, and eventually casts him as a military commander of all things, because his blobs of nothing can still slot in to any dumb role the licensor flushes down the pipe.
The IDW book felt really thin to me in general. Not just with the Sega characters, but with everything. Those first four issues ESPECIALLY were just the slowest, most gentle drip feed of plot in between 15 pages of action sequences. Things have started picking up a bit since then, but I guess you're right in that they feel like Ian is specifically avoiding establishing characterization. Some of that feels like "you should already know these characters" but some of it definitely feels like specific avoidance.
I wonder how much it's predicated on the fact Sonic Team has no respect for canon and has completely upended a character's personality and redefined their entire function more than once. If Ian avoids defining who Knuckles is, then it doesn't matter if one game portrays him as an angry loner, the next as a best friend, and eventually casts him as a military commander of all things, because his blobs of nothing can still slot in to any dumb role the licensor flushes down the pipe.
Call me a bit optimistic, but I don't think they are avoiding characterization. Its just not much room for it in a lot of the stuff they are doing. It seems as though this year they are starting a mini-series...series. Where other characters will get that characterization in their own stories all to themselves. Some folks are dissapointed it starts with two OC's, but I think that's fine.
I think the miniseries will serve as sonic universe and that's where you will get your development and more weird experimentation. I'm not saying it will be completely absent from the main book ( I think some may happen in a few issues ) but I do think they want the book as a baseline, and while I find that ... boring in a lot of cases I get it and its working for them
He said simular things about GUN. Though it seems as though sega themselves have opted to just sort of softly get rid of them for now.
I think the miniseries will serve as sonic universe and that's where you will get your development and more weird experimentation. I'm not saying it will be completely absent from the main book ( I think some may happen in a few issues ) but I do think they want the book as a baseline, and while I find that ... boring in a lot of cases I get it and its working for them
Not just her world. Marine too, Nega was denied outright for a while I believe.
He said simular things about GUN. Though it seems as though sega themselves have opted to just sort of softly get rid of them for now.
Well my fault for using the word fixed, I didnt mean he went back and rewrote Infinite lol. But we got the resistance, why silver is there for no reason, he brought blaze back, and all the games are canon. Also explained the random wisp weapons. About as good as I would hope from a continuity standpoint. He could have easily ignored all of that but at least now I dont think anything specially is missing at the moment. Well maybe Cream lol. Which is why I say all of that should just be canon. The tinkerer warp topaz stuff can stay comic only but the rest should be official
hmm that's a fair assessment. He did explain some details i'm fucking up.
I was hoping they would explain why shadow took a short vacation for 6months . And maybe some more reasons why Silve was there, maybe some stuff about this new jewels like the phantom ruby and now the topaz.
but I guess that will always be mystery
I want to like the comic more than I do. I usually don't read comics monthly but made an exception for IDW Sonic, and every issue since about issue 11 has been thin on character, action, adventure and progress, and you'll get maybe one of those per issue.
I'm waiting on the Tangle & Whisper mini before I consider bailing. I think being given the reins to the two breakout original characters of the comic will let Flynn do something more original and memorable than Fight Fight Joke Fight.
I'm waiting on the Tangle & Whisper mini before I consider bailing. I think being given the reins to the two breakout original characters of the comic will let Flynn do something more original and memorable than Fight Fight Joke Fight.
Maybe I'm misreading this, but what reason do they have to not give Sonic AAA treatment?
I think the ambition is there but yeah, the money might not be.
Shadow took a vacation?
Well sort of. It's hard to blame developer ambition level when publishers set deadlines and budgets. One problem with Sonic games is that Sonic moves so fast it's hard to create enough assets so the game is long enough. That retro gamer interview by Izuka confirmed this has been a problem since Sonic Adventure 1. Notice pretty much all the games in 3d are filled with filler content which drags down the game. Only solution would be to just bite the bullet on the money and time sink making levels would be. Boost made it worse as Sonic moves faster and uses less of the levels. Interesting thing about sonic forces is that they actually went and wasted their time making excellent backgrounds to a lot of stages. Like if you boundary break the city level it's actually really detailed and well made and the objects are actually solid. The levels themselves are terrible though. Worst in the series bad.
Anyways, ever since 06 they have been reluctant to make a full priced game. Most of the games are budget games. Which is detrimental because the games by nature need a budget for quality.
But I truly believe the path they are on now is limited. When I say I want Sonic Adventure 3, I dont mean making an "adventure" game with a bunch of nonsense characters and multiple storylines tied together by a a poorly written plot, I mean making a full 3D sonic with the type of ambition Adventure 1 and 2 and 06 had. The argument if whether 06 is adventure 3 is irrelevant to me, just because they failed on their last attempt to go big doesnt mean they should quit. The goal should be redemption. Unleashed was a great idea of pivoting away from it and they tried their best but ultimately had to include the werehog so the game wasnt an hour long. It will be expensive and difficult, but Sonic will never be able to wash away it's reputation until that 3D game is finally made. Adventure 3 just gives them an goal an idea in mind. And Adventure 1 and 2 already showed that Sonic can be made in 3D. Also Im convinced it's would be an automatic selling point. If the game is decent that is.
Of course AAA publishers are very reluctant to make games that have one time cost and no micro-transactions. Honestly if it meant Sega would up the funding I wouldnt like it but they could monetize the game more. Alternate costumes could cost money, but that's as far as I would go. Im thinking more they could bring back the chao garden and make it full of monetary bullshit and see how they can bleed out of those cute chao. Gives them a bit more freedom in the fact that they could make special chao, costumes, objects, upgrades etc all cost money. And throw that shit on mobile as well for maximum profits. I dont know, money got to come from somewhere.
In Sonic forces, during the shadow DLC. There's no actual explanation as to where shadow went. Some people suggest he was mind controlled.. but he wasn't. He actually breaks out of the illusion fairly quickly and that's it. A nice explanation ( that would actually genuinely been good story telling and explained a later thing ) was that infinite had trapped him in the void. Later in the game, when he does the same to sonic and the protagonist , several hours had passed apparently. And it felt like sonic had been in there for... a minute or so. And then you could have played up the " Oh friendship is what got us out of the void faster " angle, but that's not what happens.
Infinite just throws magic dust in shadow's face turns the self destruct on and leaves. And maybe you could suggest the self destruct got shadow, but given shadow survived atmospheric reentry and can teleport , and now due to this game can just stop time bu himself. Its problably not what happened, to further prove this dialog suggests shadow and rouge had been fucking talking. So shadow was out...somehwere.....
So shadow just vanished for about 6 months. To put it simply, if shadow showed up... then they would just figure out "Oh hey he can make clones" also , demonstrated by sonic and the protagonist... infinite can just be punched in the face. And if anyone is good at punching people in the face ... its knuckles. But knuckles was the leader of the resistance and had to lead people or something so he wasn't fight. But if there's anyone who's good at punching people in the face.... who wasn't knuckles...its shadow.
So uh shadow just vanished because he didn't fit the story they were telling, because it was bad and unfinished and probably like 2 stories cobbled together. Without any explanation to his where about. So that is " shadow's Vacation. Maybe he went to blazes's world. They have nice beaches. Maybe he took a vacay in another sega game. Went to japan hung out with kiryu. Dunno.
Ian flynn seems like he might be trying to answer this with whisper, and as a person who likes good stories, hopes he can pull something neat out of that. But the nihilist in me kind of hope its never addressed because I find it hilarious.
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Never played either of the storybook games and probably never will, but With Me is the GOAT final Sonic boss bop
Dragon's Lair is one of my favorite tracks in the entire series. Thank you for reminding me of it
I really like the Secret Rings OST but haven't heard much of this one before.
Nice tracks, will have to check out more from this~
I can only hope my alternate dimensional counterpart hates video game music and plays them on mute