Sony concerned about competition from MS in internal communication, admits its current pillars are outdated, needs to expand [Up: slides real]

[gundamkyoukai]

Not really? Your average person buys like 3 games a year and if those games aren't on a subscription service to begin with (current EA sports games, GTA, etc) or they are going to play them for 6-12 months a year, a subscription service is more expensive.

It's kind of the entire problem with video game subscription services right now, the market that cares about all those extra games is limited (still profitable, but limited).

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GP would have been great in old days when you play a game and done but that don't happen now.
I don't care about playing hundreds of games and i am a hardcore gamer that buy 10 plus game a year .
Now people spending longer time on games they playing thanks to gaas.
As for my gaming , i buy fews SP games a years, spend ton of time on genshin and playing fight games which like gass that take up my time.
Every now and then i check free game from PS+ and that way more than what average games do when comes play more 2 or 3 games a year .
Plus GP is not like other media services.

Most of this stuff isn't "not working", it's them in the process of working on it.. which is a good thing since the issues are already being addressed.

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How are they address hardware issues in EU and even USA
The had games this year , lots of price cut and sold 53k most of EU.
Worst sales in USA since 2006 on BF month .

 

[AgeEighty]

Of course they're concerned. Microsoft's ATVI acquisition has the potential to be massively disruptive to the balance of the industry in Microsoft's favor; that's the whole reason why they did it. Anyone who's denied this is fooling nobody except possibly themselves.

 

[Kyra]

Sony has every advantage. Even looking at the leaked slate of insomniac games makes Xbox and arkane having Blade seem cute by comparison. It's scraps. People will go to where the games are and Sony will have them on whatever services they provide for the foreseeable future.

 

[Stibbs]

Wait did the title update? Was their confirmation?

 

[vixolus]

Wait did the title update? Was their confirmation?

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Red Kong has the file from the leak. It's real. Insomniac isn't gonna come out and confirm it lol

 

[TooBusyLookinGud]

I think Sony will be fine.

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It's not about them being fine. They might be fine, but they should always worry about the direction of competition. People are looking at PS5 vs XS units sold not realizing that MSFT leveraging their Windows platform and have a firm grasp of the PC market.

 

[Stibbs]

Red Kong has the file from the leak. It's real. Insomniac isn't gonna come out and confirm it lol

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I meant confirmation from a Schreier or a Robinson type figure

 

[Red Kong XIX]

I'll take your word for it. And ban you if you're lying to me. 😝

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Directory in the leak is /data/Finance/[employee]/Future of Insomniac/Strategic Pillars - PSS.pptx. The presentation was created in November 2021 and last saved in October 2022. Think this should prove that it is from the leak without actually linking to the file.

could you send me please?

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Sorry, but I wont distribute straight up complete files. Even though this one doesn't have any employee info in it, besides the file authors in the properties.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

Good, ramp the competition up, baby!

 

[Mass Effect]

so it's real?

We're Barack

 

[Det]

PlayStation does about 10 billion more in revenue than Xbox and Activision combined. The report that said they'd be close is inaccurate

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No, they do $10B more than Xbox currently. With ABK, they'll be close.

 

[Mass Effect]

Good, ramp the competition up, baby!

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Time for Sony to buy Square.

And to announce 5 more live service games.

 

[g-m1n1]

The market is no longer about the amount of consoles one sells.

With Activision Blizzard King, Microsoft may well surpass Sony in revenue, possibly profits. Money is the end game, and Microsoft is backing gaming.

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It isn't, yet MS is trying to sell a maximum of Series consoles for a cheap price?

The less hardware, the less XGP subs.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

The market is no longer about the amount of consoles one sells.

With Activision Blizzard King, Microsoft may well surpass Sony in revenue, possibly profits. Money is the end game, and Microsoft is backing gaming.

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The market will always be about how console sell for now since they bring in the most money.
As you said money is the end game right and get you more with more console sold.
Like Sony subs service suck compare to MS in many way but still got 50 million which above MS because of console sales.

 

[komaruR]

honestly, ever since ms bought all these publisher. the games that started dev afyer the acquisition wasnt all that great. only that recent game from tangoworks was ok. forgot whats it called, hifi something.
looking at starfield, just fallout in space. and i was a fan of fallout or alot of open world games.
nothing really wow me.

i did bought redfall but that was such a snoozefest game that i didnt even get over the first few hours.

time will tell, how ms will effect the game dev from cod. will they still get the budget or will things get cut down.
i only recently got back to cod. bought mw2 then 3. the last cod i play only a few hours on mp was blops3 or 4
and in term of match quality (server desync, aims feels a bit off. the better mobile was a detriment to me due to either latency or desync. as in die in 2 bullet when i run to corner, while i need a whole mag or 2 to even kill in a normal mode. hc only way i can play mw3. i dont like mw3 as much but its the new cod so...
i did played 1 game of mw2 again last night and that game still feels pretty good to play (match quality wise). ttk was quite even on normal mode. i dont feel the need to play hc to overcome hurdles like in mw3.

 

[Minthara]

GP would have been great in old days when you play a game and done but that don't happen now.
I don't care about playing hundreds of games and i am a hardcore gamer that buy 10 plus game a year .
Now people spending longer time on games they playing thanks to gaas.
As for my gaming , i buy fews SP games a years, spend ton of time on genshin and playing fight games which like gass that take up my time.
Every now and then i check free game from PS+ and that way more than what average games do when comes play more 2 or 3 games a year .
Plus GP is not like other media services.

Click to shrink...

Just look at this year's Steam numbers! People play an average of 4 games a year on Steam (and games are much, much cheaper on Steam) and only 9% were games released in 2023.


View: https://x.com/WritNelson/status/1736881873324810424?s=20

Credit to Xalavier Nelson Jr. on Twitter:

People have a really warped view of how many games people play a year.

 

[Patitoloco]

Just look at this year's Steam numbers! People play an average of 4 games a year on Steam (and games are much, much cheaper on Steam) and 91% did not play a game released in 2023.


View: https://x.com/WritNelson/status/1736881873324810424?s=20

Credit to Xalavier Nelson Jr. on Twitter:

People have a really warped view of how many games people play a year.

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We are in an enthusiast forum, our view of games is pretty fucking warped.

 

[EagleClaw]

If i read the clearly listed impacts on Sony i see nothing new.

gamepass is a risk to PS+: Of course.
Need to expand on live service games: Yeah, we know that.
Premium sales model is the central approach: Yeah...

 

[Squall93]

It's not about them being fine. They might be fine, but they should always worry about the direction of competition. People are looking at PS5 vs XS units sold not realizing that MSFT leveraging their Windows platform and have a firm grasp of the PC market.

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After this slide dates from the start of 2022 well before all the concessions from MS for the takeover of ABK. We can clearly see that the growth of gamepass (and subscription services in general) seems to be slowing down (no new number of subscribers since January 2022). That Xbox console sales are falling. And if we believe the rumors we would rather be on an MS which would start to release more and more of their games on other ecosystems.
So I think that the situation today is no longer really the same and that if Sony had to redo a slide it would surely be different

 

[JigglesBunny]

"We're dated and behind the competition. We need more GaaS titles, mobile games and subscription services!"

View: https://x.com/memepatissier/status/1606005774911565825?s=20

 

[gundamkyoukai]

It's not about them being fine. They might be fine, but they should always worry about the direction of competition. People are looking at PS5 vs XS units sold not realizing that MSFT leveraging their Windows platform and have a firm grasp of the PC market.

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MS does not have no firm grasp on the PC market when it comes to games that is steam .
MS store hardly even matter to the PC market .
Hell Epic store most likely bigger lol .

 

[TripleBee]

MS does not have no firm grasp on the PC market when it comes to games that is steam .
MS store hardly even matter to the PC market .
Hell Epic store most likely bigger lol .

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Microsoft is now one of, if not the single biggest publishers on steam.

 

[Kyrios]

Sony will still lead but maybe not be so lazy. Is lazy the right word?

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"Complacent" is what you're looking for.

 

[gremlinz1982]

The market will always be about how console sell for now since they bring in the most money.
As you said money is the end game right and get you more with more console sold.
Like Sony subs service suck compare to MS in many way but still got 50 million which above MS because of console sales.

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Mobile and PC are bigger. Microsoft wants to compete on console, and I hope they do, but who on here honestly thinks console will outdo mobile?

Seriously?

Microsoft did not spend the amount of money they did just for console.

It isn't, yet MS is trying to sell a maximum of Series consoles for a cheap price?

The less hardware, the less XGP subs.

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Consoles are part of the market, they are not the market.

PC and more importantly mobile will provide more revenue than console.

 

[Cassius Africanus]

honestly, ever since ms bought all these publisher. the games that started dev afyer the acquisition wasnt all that great. only that recent game from tangoworks was ok. forgot whats it called, hifi something.
looking at starfield, just fallout in space. and i was a fan of fallout or alot of open world games.
nothing really wow me.

i did bought redfall but that was such a snoozefest game that i didnt even get over the first few hours.

time will tell, how ms will effect the game dev from cod. will they still get the budget or will things get cut down.
i only recently got back to cod. bought mw2 then 3. the last cod i play only a few hours on mp was blops3 or 4

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The only game I can think of that has released AFTER the major Microsoft purchases is maybe Grounded. Almost everything else was in development before. Including Hi-Fi.

 

[BobLoblaw]

Microsoft with its slowing of gamepass growth, rapidly shrinking hardware base has its own headache. Dumping content alone is not enough. People still need to be invested in your ecosystem to engage with said content. Will people leave steam for gamepass on PC? Will people engage enough with your content on console to move from other ecosystems? Time will tell.

Both platform holders have some real challenges to tackle.

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Of the two, Microsoft is more future-proofed by diversifying their offerings. Console + PC + mobile > console (and 2-3 years later PC...maybe). And Microsoft hasn't put all of their eggs in the Game Pass basket. They still release titles on PC (and via portable by proxy) and now have a foothold in mobile with one of the most profitable games there is.

They absolutely have challenges in terms of bringing people into their ecosystem (Europe is probably a lost cause at this point), but there isn't an analyst in the world that would say Sony's better positioned for future growth than Microsoft is. Let's remember that a company's stock is based on both earnings and potential growth. If Sony's selling the same amount of consoles every generation and not moving into new areas like PC, mobile, or GaaS, it's hard to see where that growth will come from. There are only so many people in the world that will buy a console.

 

[GamerEDM]

Just look at this year's Steam numbers! People play an average of 4 games a year on Steam (and games are much, much cheaper on Steam) and 91% did not play a game released in 2023.


View: https://x.com/WritNelson/status/1736881873324810424?s=20

Credit to Xalavier Nelson Jr. on Twitter:

People have a really warped view of how many games people play a year.

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the top games on steam are always like counter strike and dota. Those games eat up so much time i dont know how they would have time to play anything else

 

[BringBackSonics]

A company wouldn't be doing its due diligence if it didn't look at potential threats and challenges in the future. ````

 

[St. Elmo's Fire]

If i read the clearly listed impacts on Sony i see nothing new.

gamepass is a risk to PS+: Of course.
Need to expand on live service games: Yeah, we know that.
Premium sales model is the central approach: Yeah...

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Yeah it's pretty much stuff we already know. People are acting up again because it's fuel for console wars crap.
A competitor spent $80 billion to buy two publishers. So of course this can be dangerous and Sony knows it. Therefore they categorize it as a potential threat. Like every smart and successful company would do.
We also already know that Sony wants to expand. PlayStation (consoles), PC and Mobile.
Sony needs a few successful live-service games. Which makes totally sense. They're working on them. Let's hope some of them are successful so Sony can make both. Successful singleplayer games and successful live-service multiplayer games.

 

[Kyrios]

A company wouldn't be doing its due diligence if it didn't look at potential threats and challenges in the future. ````

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Yeah I'd be more worried if Sony wasn't concerned lol

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

Yeah it's pretty much stuff we already know. People are acting up again because it's fuel for console wars crap.
A competitor spent $80 billion to buy two publishers. So of course this can be dangerous and Sony knows it.
We also already know that Sony wants to expand. PlayStation (consoles), PC and Mobile.
Sony needs a few successful live-service games. Which makes totally sense. They're working on them. Let's hope some of them are successful so Sony can make both. Successful singleplayer games and successful live-service multiplayer games.

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Yup, this is my take, too.

If Sony can get 2-3 great Live Service Games going (easier said than done, admittedly... but we're talking over the next 7+ years), can maintain their top spot as THE destination for AAA SP games, and maybe toss a bit into PC ports and mobile, they'll be fine... and they'll be doing what they would have probably done, anyway.

 

[komaruR]

The only game I can think of that has released AFTER the major Microsoft purchases is maybe Grounded. Almost everything else was in development before. Including Hi-Fi.

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wait, hifi was in dev before acqui?
that was the only decent game i felt was good. sadly many other games overshadow it.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Mobile and PC are bigger. Microsoft wants to compete on console, and I hope they do, but who on here honestly thinks console will outdo mobile?

Seriously?

Microsoft did not spend the amount of money they did just for console.

Consoles are part of the market, they are not the market.

PC and more importantly mobile will provide more revenue than console.

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It dos not matter if they also want to compete on mobile and PC they still get more money from console when you add it in.
30% cut , GP , subs , Hell you can now even get gacha money since games on everything .
There no such thing as mobile , console and PC separate any more even if certain aspect differnt .
You can't say at end day it about money and think MS will happy if they sell less console than XBO.

 

[Bradbatross]

GP would have been great in old days when you play a game and done but that don't happen now.
I don't care about playing hundreds of games and i am a hardcore gamer that buy 10 plus game a year .
Now people spending longer time on games they playing thanks to gaas.
As for my gaming , i buy fews SP games a years, spend ton of time on genshin and playing fight games which like gass that take up my time.
Every now and then i check free game from PS+ and that way more than what average games do when comes play more 2 or 3 games a year .
Plus GP is not like other media services.



How are they address hardware issues in EU and even USA
The had games this year , lots of price cut and sold 53k most of EU.
Worst sales in USA since 2006 on BF month .

Click to shrink...

How are they addressing the issues? Is that a serious question? We're in a thread about them buying ABK lol. They've multiplied the amount of devs they own by like 6 since 2017.

 

[vestan]

wait, hifi was in dev before acqui?
that was the only decent game i felt was good. sadly many other games overshadow it.

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Yes. Hi-Fi Rush was pitched internally in 2017 after TEW2 and entered proper development in 2018.

 

[Cassius Africanus]

wait, hifi was in dev before acqui?
that was the only decent game i felt was good. sadly many other games overshadow it.

Click to shrink...

Hi-Fi Rush director talks shadow-dropping a Bethesda hit five years in the making

How the game's "incredibly scary" reveal paid off for Tango Gameworks

www.gamesradar.com

 

[Kill3r7]

Just look at this year's Steam numbers! People play an average of 4 games a year on Steam (and games are much, much cheaper on Steam) and 91% did not play a game released in 2023.


View: https://x.com/WritNelson/status/1736881873324810424?s=20

Credit to Xalavier Nelson Jr. on Twitter:

People have a really warped view of how many games people play a year.

Click to shrink...

💯

We keep thinking the average person is playing dozens a game a year. As KillerMan91 pointed out in another thread the PS4 attach rate is over 13 games which is very impressive (I was under the impression it was below 10). That is still fewer than 4 games per year.

 

[vixolus]

wait, hifi was in dev before acqui?
that was the only decent game i felt was good. sadly many other games overshadow it.

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hi fi rush was worked on for like 5 years

 

[Mr_F_Snowman]

And there's a reason why there aren't any which is my point.

There's no market for them anymore, it's either Nintendo or indies and Insomniac/Sumo Digital are neither.

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Crash Trilogy sold over 10 million. Spyro trilogy sold very well. Crash 4 did....who knows. Ok. Some of these indies we are talking about have sold multiple millions. Prior to that you had Skylanders doing big numbers. To say there is no market is clearly wrong.

It's a simple fact that no one is going after certain sectors of the market besides Nintendo and indies - guess what - they are reaping the benefits.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Microsoft is now one of, if not the single biggest publishers on steam.

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That don't mean they control the market .
That mean they have use stream to get sales cause there market so poor .
They giving away money they would not have to if they control the PC market cause gamers would buy there game on MS store and not stream .

 

[00Quan[T]]

I think it's obvious Microsoft carved a long term strategy for them, even if it isn't quite flowing now, it absolutely will in the future.
Same for Nintendo with the portable market, Sony still needs to find it's reason of being despite their games being giants, it's clear that this isn't sustainable.

 

[thankyoumerzbow]

The only game I can think of that has released AFTER the major Microsoft purchases is maybe Grounded. Almost everything else was in development before. Including Hi-Fi.

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pentiment also

 

[Mass Effect]

Just look at this year's Steam numbers! People play an average of 4 games a year on Steam (and games are much, much cheaper on Steam) and 91% did not play a game released in 2023.


View: https://x.com/WritNelson/status/1736881873324810424?s=20

Credit to Xalavier Nelson Jr. on Twitter:

People have a really warped view of how many games people play a year.

Click to shrink...

You're reading that incorrectly. It's saying of the games the average user played, only 9% were 2023 games. It is NOT saying that "91% of Steam users didn't play a 2023 game." That would be a statistical impossibility given we know how well games do on Steam these days.

 

[Cassius Africanus]

pentiment also

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True. Obsidian has delivered on the smaller varied games that game pass has been promised to make possible. Even then smaller does not mean small. Just not mega budget.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

How are they addressing the issues? Is that a serious question? We're in a thread about them buying ABK lol. They've multiplied the amount of devs they own by like 6 since 2017.

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But none of that help this year along with price cuts .
They had games this year and still sold the worst than ever before.
This is a bigger issues than content in the EU and USA it seem.
Them buying ABK don't change Sony will get COD 10 more years which does not help them hardware wise.

 

[Twister]

As someone who works at a large company, I hate to break this to people but this is normal. Companies always have to look out for potential risk and do make note of them on internal presentations. Everyone trying to sensationalize this as Sony being "scared" of Microsoft or whatever definitely has never worked at a large company before. This has nothing to do with being scared or emotions like that. This is just risk analysis plain and simple

 

[Minthara]

You're reading that incorrectly. It's saying of the games the average user played, only 9% were 2023 games. It is NOT saying that "91% of Steam users didn't play a 2023 game." That would be a statistical impossibility given we know how well games do on Steam these days.

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Edited and fixed.

As someone who works at a large company, I hate to break this to people but this is normal. Companies always have to look out for potential risk and do make note of them on internal presentations. Everyone trying to sensationalize this as Sony being "scared" of Microsoft or whatever definitely has never worked at a large company before. This has nothing to do with being scared or emotions like that. This is just risk analysis plain and simple

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Yup. Most of my job function (Product Marketing) is about keeping your company ahead of competitors and being on top of whatever they do.

 

[Cassius Africanus]

Just look at this year's Steam numbers! People play an average of 4 games a year on Steam (and games are much, much cheaper on Steam) and 91% did not play a game released in 2023.


View: https://x.com/WritNelson/status/1736881873324810424?s=20

Credit to Xalavier Nelson Jr. on Twitter:

People have a really warped view of how many games people play a year.

Click to shrink...

I think this is misleading a bit. Steam covers a massive variety of machines. If we narrowed down the scope of computers that could at least run modern games (from the last 2 console gens) I bet that number increases. I bet the number of games played that released/updated this year goes up too.

 

[Minthara]

I think this is misleading a bit. Steam covers a massive variety of machines. If we narrowed down the scope of computers that could at least run modern games (from the last 2 console gens) I bet that number increases. I bet the number of games played that released/updated this year goes up too.

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It isn't misleading though - we know that your average person buys between 2-4 games a year for their console. Console attach rates tend to be below 30 and considering consoles are out for 5+ years, that isn't many games per year.

That's why subscription services within games face some unique challenges - your average person buys specific games every year and adding other games to their pool that they often don't have time to play isn't necessarily a value add to those people.

 

[Mass Effect]

Edited and fixed.

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👍

Your main point about users here overestimating how many games the average person generally plays is completely valid though. And the steam stats show it.