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Sony details their Cross Point ReRAM SSD technology [hard specs, potential PS5 SSD tech]
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
Those numbers are over PCIe 5.0 and for ReRAM as a full SSD, which will be expensive.
PS5 doesn't need to use it, nor does it need PCIe 4.0. Anything on PCIe 5.0 is definitely for enterprise so tamper expectations if ReRAM is used in consoles.
Still would be absolutely epic if it was included though.
PS5 doesn't need to use it, nor does it need PCIe 4.0. Anything on PCIe 5.0 is definitely for enterprise so tamper expectations if ReRAM is used in consoles.
Still would be absolutely epic if it was included though.
Nah, this technology is all about that read speed. What you're suggesting would want to lean far more heavily on write.
I think if this was going into PS5, Sony would make a much more public deal of it already in order to boost the tech's profile, early adoption prospects etc.
I can see the temptation to speculate about it, but I think it's far more likely the PS5 SSD will be conventional NAND devices, with the customisation in the memory controller and associated logic and/or in the IO bus (if it's not standard PCIe4).
I can see the temptation to speculate about it, but I think it's far more likely the PS5 SSD will be conventional NAND devices, with the customisation in the memory controller and associated logic and/or in the IO bus (if it's not standard PCIe4).
I think it's extremely unlikely we'll see this in PS5:
- we've just had a thread with Samsung clearly talking abouttheir NVMe SSD tech being adopted by consoles in 2020 - EDIT I made a mistake, sorry
- target size seems very small
- price is likely to be expensive
- we've just had a thread with Samsung clearly talking about
- target size seems very small
- price is likely to be expensive
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Pretty cool. One odd thing here is that to get the best out if it, devs will have to seriously cut back on data compression. It's one major reason why loading a level on PC via 500MB/sec SSD might take 3.2 seconds, while the exact same PC with a 3200MB/sec nvme SSD might cut it to 2.9 seconds despite being more than 6X faster. The reason is simply waiting for the CPU and game processes to decompress the data into position in RAM, which takes time and grunt.
Or to put it much more simply : the time it takes to copy 5GB of data directly from A to B vs the time it takes to unpack a 5GB RAR from the exact same A and B positions.
Currently, data compression is basically ubiquitous for modern AAA games, simply due to people preferring a game like Gears 5 or RDR2 not to take 200+GB of storage, or ship on 4 Blurays, lol.
A middle ground is probably ideal here, or a proprietary decompression tool that is mandatory for all platform releases which is data efficient AND doesn't bog the hell out the CPU, which would make the benefits very hard to see.
Or to put it much more simply : the time it takes to copy 5GB of data directly from A to B vs the time it takes to unpack a 5GB RAR from the exact same A and B positions.
Currently, data compression is basically ubiquitous for modern AAA games, simply due to people preferring a game like Gears 5 or RDR2 not to take 200+GB of storage, or ship on 4 Blurays, lol.
A middle ground is probably ideal here, or a proprietary decompression tool that is mandatory for all platform releases which is data efficient AND doesn't bog the hell out the CPU, which would make the benefits very hard to see.
Well we haven't heard from MS yet so I guess let's just wait and see? I'm sure they will have something in the bag and like others have said, price is really important here. If the PS5 isn't competitively priced then it will be a tough sell initially like the PS3.
it'd be more than enough - you wouldn't have this as your only storage - it'd be like virtual ram and then you'd have HDD or a slower SSD for mass storage.
This would be crazy if true - you could literally use this like DDR4 so you could have eg 16GB HBM for fast 'VRAM' and then 128GB of effective DDR4.
traditional 16x ram increase still possible!?
Competing with Optane would be pretty interesting.
by... using competing technology?
Your (very console-warring) post reminds me of how people didn't think the Xbox One would have a blu-ray drive because "sony owns it"
by... using competing technology?
Your (very console-warring) post reminds me of how people didn't think the Xbox One would have a blu-ray drive because "sony owns it"
what better way to cost-reduce to aid market penetration than building 10m units a year into your consoles? You can offset your costs with clever allocation of budget so it doesn't all fall on the Playstation division
OP
OP
PS5 would still need a regular SSD for massstorage if ReRAM is used as a cache for currently active game.
As for price, that's the big unknown. 8GB of GDDR5 also costed much but it appeared on PS4.
This wont be the main drive. It'll sit alongside the main SSD.
This will basically be like an Optane module that accelerates transfers by caching important data and zapping it directly to the CPU, all while communicating directly with other components like RAM and GPU.
Most of the data stays on main storage drive.
Price will fall as capacity shrinks, and PS5 probably won't need anything bigger than 32GB of cache, if that.
Sony can make full SSDs out of this tech (thats what is outlined in the presentation) but it's definitely not needed for consoles. Those are enterprise data sets.
i think a major thing to remember is that its not the first time sony used their consoles to sell new technology, which in turn will make it cheaper in the long run.
I think it's extremely unlikely too, but on Samsung.... did they clearly say that?
I know a lot of people went wild 'confirming' Samsung's involvement, but I took the presented slide as part of commentary on general SSD trends, not an announcement of their own products going into consoles. Was it clarified later - e.g. in a better translation - that they actually were confirming their involvement?
4x the speed of Optane DIMMs and yet somehow affordable enough to use in a consumer device like the PS5?
I've been predicting a fast drive in the PS5; faster than most PCIe 4.0 SSDs even, but this seems highly unlikely.
I've been predicting a fast drive in the PS5; faster than most PCIe 4.0 SSDs even, but this seems highly unlikely.
OP
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Maybe Randy Pitchford has again screamed at Sony reps at dev meetings, this time asking for fastest SSD possible. :D
What if Intel is placing 300% markup on Octane? They are like nvidia, they like their profits.
Who what will production cost of ReRAM be... Plus, Sony would make it internally.
It could have been read in a number of ways, it doesn't confirm their SSD tech is being used in 2020 consoles IMO.
No console-warring intended. I'll buy both consoles day 1 (as i have this gen).
My question comes from the idea to use this technology at all. This news doesn't confrim that sony 'll use ReRam in the ps5, that's just a possibility. But if sony knew that this technology will be ready in 2020 they could've planned for its use. MS could surely use a competing solution or even the same but if they didn't even plan for its use in scarlet then it would mean that the ps5 may got an advantage that isn't fixable at this time for ms.
With the ram for the PS4 sony doubled it to 8gb because of MS (after they've heard about it). But this technology isn't something that can be tacked on.
We'll see in a few months.
Was thinking the exact same thing.
Feb 2020, can't wait to hopefully get more leak, info.
Yea this isn't for consoles. Not beyond the minimum needed for cache purposes, anyway. Maybe 32GB of the stuff? probably much less.
There's so many optimizations required to fit with older hard drive tech on current gen and PC... There's so much stuff we have to stream from storage to ram to GPU and CPU, accelerating the first bottleneck will unlock a tons of possibilities.
For example we will see many more games using Virtual Texturing/Megatextures (as teased by Epic in their latest UE4 releases), 4k textures, HDR textures (right now exactly zero game uses HDR texturing), better probes-based lighting etc.
Seems entirely unnecessary to have something like this on a gaming console. It would just drive up the price considerably, considering you still need to have a big SSD sitting next to it.
Oh I'm sure there is a big markup on Optane DIMMs, due to there being nothing else like that right now. Even at these high prices it's still significantly cheaper than RAM.
But unless Sony are aiming to completely revolutionize computing with low-cost ReRAM, I can't imagine a first-generation product being produced at such volume and priced so low that it would be feasible to have something like 128GB of it inside the PS5.
With base target of 128GB at 25GB/s read and 9GB/s write speed, I wonder how it will translate on PS5.
I personally think the ReRAM used in PS5 will be slower than this; 20GB/s read and 5GB/s write speed.
I personally think the ReRAM used in PS5 will be slower than this; 20GB/s read and 5GB/s write speed.
I can easily agree on that, I just think it's unlikely they'll adopt both.
No, you're right.
I stand corrected, and I even checked the actual slide yesterday!
My apologies.
To sum it up, this proves that the PS4 is getting UHD Blu-ray movie playback as a firmware update. Any day now...
Just how expensive are these? Would it be viable for Sony to put them in the PS5 cost wise and keep the overall unit at a reasonable cost?
Only if it fits within the EUs power saving standby regulations paragraph 12, subsection 4a.
Not only that, and AMD Zen 2 already could support PCIe 4.0 (32GB/s one way), and up to 64 PCIe lanes on Desktop.
That 20GB/s number is not too far fetched either.
Nah. Jeff would have given us the full PS5 hardware rundown by just looking at what the current PS3 browser webkit version is.
Probably better than a RAM disk, as there are overheads with that which makes them higher latency than Optane DIMMs for example.
I still think it's entirely unrealistic that the PS5 will be using this tech though.
Probably better than a RAM disk, as there are overheads with that which makes them higher latency than Optane DIMMs for example.
I still think it's entirely unrealistic that the PS5 will be using this tech though.
Complelty unrealisitic this is too expensive.
