Sony details their Cross Point ReRAM SSD technology [hard specs, potential PS5 SSD tech]

Tokklyym

Member
Oct 28, 2017
168
Torrana
gameplay potential is held back by loading speeds
Agreed.

Everyone thinks loading speed or start-up time, when really it goes beyond that. In a discussion I listened to earlier in the year there was talk about, for example, Spider-Man's swinging speed in 2018's PS4 game was limited because of the storage. The game could only load New York so fast. If you remove the bottleneck of getting data from storage to memory, then much, much more information is at hand quickly.
 

Deleted member 9317

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Oct 26, 2017
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Complelty unrealisitic this is too expensive.
What's more expensive and unrealistic is a complete innovation in SSD tech from Sony. They're already boasting their console is fast as fuck, and there is no way Sony found some SSD Holy Grail and is putting it in a PS5, a holy grail that others have failed to make. Cache drive makes sense as it's existing tech.

Make a cheaper hardware, match ReRAM with RAM and match write speed with SSD's speed. It's possible if you believe it!!
 

Taffy Lewis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
505
The PS5 will use cheap NAND connected via NVMe, not some RAM/SSD hybrid that doesn't even really benefit games.

But I guess it's the usual Jeff "expertise" on display here.
 

Schlorgan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,048
Bountiful, Utah
My main questions are:

A) How big will the drives be?
B) Will it be possible to replace them with bigger drives?
C) Will some sort of external solution even be possible?

Even if they're able to cut game sizes significantly, 500 GB or even 1 TB won't be enough for the whole generation.

I'm assuming the SSD is the only drive in the machine.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,749
Yeah I think this paired with a regular hdd for mass storage and PS4 games would do the trick. I feel like I just suggested something like this yesterday
 
Dec 15, 2017
859
Sony Is the king of smoke and mirrors. I don't believe anything from them until I see several third party benchmarks from tech sites
 

daninthemix

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Nov 2, 2017
2,031
This - whatever it costs, plus an SSD for primary storage and at that point I don't know how they can price this thing effectively.
 

Afrikan

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Oct 28, 2017
5,287
Well SOMETHING has to be special about the PS5. Why not this?

For those who say this will be too expensive/unrealistic. What do yall feel Sony has up their sleeves for the PS5 then?
 

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,542
I don't think so OP. It's too expensive and actually too fast for what they need according to their patent, here nand will suffice. The controller needed to move data at such speed will also be expensive. And the latency is not low enough to be used as a small cache, sram would be better.

Remember that sony is currently designing cartridges. But that doesn't mean they are going to do a Vita 2.
 

Giant Panda

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Oct 25, 2017
721
I'm sceptical that Cerny would go for unproven technology like this. It would be cool if it worked out but including this would be a big risk.
 

Vashetti

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,802
I don't think so OP. It's too expensive and actually too fast for what they need according to their patent, here nand will suffice. The controller needed to move data at such speed will also be expensive. And the latency is not low enough to be used as a small cache, sram would be better.

Remember that sony is currently designing cartridges. But that doesn't mean they are going to do a Vita 2.
Those are for kids toys.

 

CaLe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
358
I made a thread in 2017 when Intel Optane was first announced, about how this kind of memory could be revolutionary for next-gen consoles. It got 0 posts. I'm just gonna tell myself Mark Cerny read that and was inspired. Yes, that's what happened.
 

c0de

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,890
What if Intel is placing 300% markup on Octane? They are like nvidia, they like their profits.

Who what will production cost of ReRAM be... Plus, Sony would make it internally.
For storage to competitive in price, it has to be produced in masses and for this Sony would have to place it on to more than just a PS5. Also, market pricing is something that does not interrupt the whole market immediately as it would be way better than the current tech and thus would be priced appropriately. And even then, like Optane, while there is a market for such high speed storage, it is very limited in terms of applications.
 

IvanSlavkov

Member
Oct 27, 2017
894
Bulgaria
Sony Is the king of smoke and mirrors. I don't believe anything from them until I see several third party benchmarks from tech sites
Thanks gor the laugh. BTW you sound familiar. :)

On topic, if Sony are using this for PS5, it will be huge. I'm sure Cerny did his tours around studios all over the world and is fully capable of implementing this new tech. The question is what price we will pay as a consumer, given that we already know the PS5 will be a beast?
 

Orioto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,178
Paris
Yes it's way more than faster loading times when games are designed around a ton more content being usable at the same time. And if you pair that with the insane cpu upgrade next gen, i think this may be the best generation upgrade for gameplay ever.

I still think the absolute perfect type of game to showcase that and create a strong difference would be a botw like coherent physical open world with tons of interactions with the environment.

Also i can't even imagine how amazing and revolutionary those PS5 pecs would be for Dreams actually, but MM really has to release a PS5 version where dreams are not compatible with PS4 anymore and it's going to be a problem when PS4 dreams is out so late in the PS4 life. But they absolutely have to do that.
 

EvilBoris

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Oct 29, 2017
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It's described as a candidate technology and for 2021.

Both of those things describe things that are firmly in R&D and probably not in the PS5
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,148
Anyone else not feeling excited at the prospect of these SSD techs being an important selling point for next gen? I mean, this generation I've rarely been annoyed by excessive loading times or sluggish behavior during installs, patches etc. Am I missing something here?
Installations aren't too bad, because it's one and done, but the loading times are still pretty damn high. It's like a night and day difference when I have to go from my gaming PC back to the Pro. The load times really kill the experience.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,557
PS5 already sounds like a 500$ console with all the new AMD stuff. An ultra high tech cache drive is going to rise that price into the stratosphere.
 

dragonbane

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,854
Germany
That would be nuts to have the entire game in something almost as fast as RAM. That would indeed decimate loads. But I don't see it
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,231
Barcelona Spain
What's more expensive and unrealistic is a complete innovation in SSD tech from Sony. They're already boasting their console is fast as fuck, and there is no way Sony found some SSD Holy Grail and is putting it in a PS5, a holy grail that others have failed to make. Cache drive makes sense as it's existing tech.

Make a cheaper hardware, match ReRAM with RAM and match write speed with SSD's speed. It's possible if you believe it!!
This is not something completly new every SSD have ARM processor and some SSD have hardware decompressor. The only things new in the patent from a hardware point of view is to customize the controller for reading faster than writing data. And this is logic no SSD is specialized for game. All other things are software innovation and some of them are used in datacenter.

But like I said we just need to wait and see how will the Sony SSD will work. I will laugh a lot. ;)

ReRam is fucking expensive in big quantity. If it is for using 1 GB of Reram, I don't see the interest.
 
Nov 8, 2017
404
I mean, it's cool. But if it's not finished, how can they get in the PS5 for launch without delay. They have to finalize it, and then somehow manufacture it at scale. How much new tech can the put in this box? $500 is seeming low at this point.

New, unproven tech is always sketchy as a first gen product.
 

MrKlaw

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Oct 25, 2017
9,762
come on - we have to have an 8GB GDDR5 wildcard to generate some excitement, surely?
 

monketron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
729
Aren't the dev kits out in the wild now? surely if they had this tech in them it would have leaked by now.
 

BeImonkey

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Dec 9, 2017
1,821
Is tech like this headed to pc eventually? And would a mass storage device for it need to be an SSD?
 

KKRT

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,049
Havent seen TDP earlier, 14W is a lot. In comparison NVMe SSD drive takes around 1-2W within normal workloads.
But 16 or 32GB solution could be viable, this should be around 5W
 
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Lukemia SL

Member
Jan 30, 2018
6,398
At least not in his name but I cannot see anyone resembling his "I told you so"-self-proclaimed insider nonsense (the most famous one saying Scorpio's TF number being only fp16).
I remember all of that FP16 rapid packed maths business and uprendering stuff for the most part. That’s funny looking back on it.
 

SixelAlexiS

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,281
Italy
Small ReRAM drive would require presence of mass storage [SSD or HDD]. PS5 game [entire or parts of it] would have to be transferred into ReRAM to achieve max speeds.
You all know that this would be a pain in the a**, right?

In that case you would be subject by regular SSD speed (500MB/s is a top one, but some cheaper models are around 300MB/s), hoping that in the game there aren't many small files so it's even lower speed.

If all games would be 100GB and avarage speed of 300MB/s, we are talking about almost 6 minutes to make a full transfer.

Now, talking in mind that 300MB/s constant speed on an installed game seems quite optimistic, it mean that if you play multiple games at once it will be a chore, defeating the purpose of having an high speed SSD and "no loading" console.

I mean, the single game will still benefit from it, but the console use would become a loading fiesta if you dare playing more then one, two games.