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Sony nuked PlayStation VR’s biggest problem by promising PS5 support | Venture Beat Article
- Thread starter Equanimity
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I've long been of the mindset that PSVR support on PS5 was a given. Like there's literally no reason for Sony to not support it.
There was no confirmation that VR would be a big priority for Sony next generation.
Fortunately we now know they are committed.
Pressure of forward compatibility with new VR games is one. Imagine still having to limit yourself to move controls/single camera tracking in order to appease the PSVR1 users (once a PSVR 2 exists). I'm all for backward compatibility, but the fact that it implies potential forward compatibility is bad. Once PSVR 2 comes out, new games shouldn't have to try to make the games PSVR1 compatible.
That was the one thing that made me more happy. The continue support of PSVR and BC. I'm getting more VR games.
I agree with this, but I'm open to and hopeful of the possibility that PSVR2-exclusive games will eventually be a thing on PS5.
At the very least, I see no reason to believe that PS5 VR games will be required to support Move controllers given that current PSVR games are not required to support any specific controllers (DualShock 4, Move, Aim, etc.). Actually I'm already kind of anticipating that the PS5's standard controller will be something suitable to replace the Move controllers, so my expectation is that PS5 VR games won't need to support Move at all.
I mean for the PSVR, the one we currently have that requires the camera. I agree that PSVR2 would probably have inside-out tracking (though I would like to see combining that with the camera being an option, for even more accurate tracking).
Take the limiter off of the PS4 and you can use it with PSVR for locomotion. Actual jet engine for that immersive PS5 VR.
Lol, amazing gif!
I was shocked when Cerny dumped all these infos out of nowhere and at least one year in advance, but now I understand, that he actually lifted the veil just enough, to let us know that the future is bright (beefy CPU, SSD, some ray tracing) and that we'll be able to use our PS4 games and PSVR hardware on the PS5 (BC). Yes, BC for both PS4 games and PSVR were a no-brainer for many people, but far from being a certainty.
MS was already clear on that front for a long time, Xbox Two will offer at least the same BC features like the One X and maybe even better, making it easy to further invest in games and services, close to the end of this gen.
I just bought a PSVR but I admit I was really hesitant to do it. Only did it because I got it for just ~$100. Literally an hour after I bought it, they put out the PS5 article so I guess that validated my purchase lol though I definitely would've picked one up, even at a higher price point, if I knew about eventual PS5 compatibility going in.
I think it's possibly easier to think about PSVR generations in isolation and the boxes involved secondarily.
(To be clear, what follows is a guess)
So I think you will have PSVR games and PSVR2 games.
PSVR games will run on PS4 and PS5. Any game marketed as PSVR will have to still support PS4, but will run on PS5 through BC (with or without any patched enhancements).
PSVR2 games will run on PS5 only.
And some games will be 'cross gen', with versions targeted for both PSVR and PSVR2 tech.
Like any transition I think from the get go you'll have some PSVR2 (and thus PS5 only) software along with a smattering of 'cross gen' titles. Eventually I think you will get to a point where many or most VR games in the PS sphere are PSVR2 only (and thus inherently PS5 based).
That's one proposal anyway, and I think it might be the simplest to grok. You could alternatively set up a situation where you try to 'mix' PSVR2 tech (e.g. controllers) with PSVR headsets, and support that combo, but I'm not sure if that's then over complicating the compatibility and marketing message.
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I'm pretty sure the design of the next console is simple going to ensure that the existing peripherals can be plugged in and work accordingly. I doubt the next headset is going to be tethered to the Move/camera setup.
PSVR's biggest problem is the lack of AAA (or AA) titles and the lack of dedicated VR controllers.
Interesting idea. How do you expect this work with PS5 games that are primarily non-VR, but want to support VR as an optional mode (e.g. games like Resident Evil 7, Dirt Rally, Thumper, etc.) and games that want to support VR only for extra/bonus content (e.g. games like GT Sport, Ace Combat 7, Tekken 7, Hatsune Miku, Persona 3/5 DAN, Rise of the Tomb Raider, etc.)?
Wouldn't your idea mean that such games would be forced to either support PS4, or just forego VR support completely to be PS5 exclusive? Or would an exception be made for games that don't require VR?
It'd be cool if it had inside out tracking while allowing you to use an optional camera to cover blind spots, since alot of people will have the camera anyway.
This was a great piece of information to get out there. I have been contemplating getting a VR headset for a while and this makes the choice very easy. I'll be getting one soon. Probably after Blood & Truth releases.
They need new controllers like the Oculus Touch.
"VR's biggest problem is that audiences don't seem all that interested in it, and that it lacks software that captures the imagination of mainstream culture."
This is a wrong sentence, you don't provide any argument why people aren't interested in it. It should be: because there is no killer app software, the audience are not interested in it.
What VR needs is a Half Life 3 level, full fledged Naughty Dog type of games, and a price tag that doesn't cost as much as a console, I think we're gonna see both conditions met some time next gen.
"VR's biggest problem is that audiences don't seem all that interested in it, and that it lacks software that captures the imagination of mainstream culture."
This is a wrong sentence, you don't provide any argument why people aren't interested in it. It should be: because there is no killer app software, the audience are not interested in it.
What VR needs is a Half Life 3 level, full fledged Naughty Dog type of games, and a price tag that doesn't cost as much as a console, I think we're gonna see both conditions met some time next gen.
Pretty sure PSVR2 will have inside out tracking along with new controllers to support it. PSVR is just a peripheral so not sure why the headset wouldn't be able to support PS5 games when PSVR2 is released they will just be a lower res vs the PSVR2 headset. Yes the tracking methods can be different as at the end of the day they are just input methods like any other controller so I'm sure Sony will have something under the hood of the PS5 that sorts all that out. Devs can still build games for whichever control scheme they want to use but think as far as headsets go PSVR and PSVR2 headsets will be compatible with all games.
It's not 'different' input methods like an xbox controller vs a playstation controller, they're vastly different in capability.
It's as different as a touch screen is vs a joystick. Can you make things work, or things that CAN work on both? of course, but it prevents you from making experiences that truly take advantage of either. It's already super super clear how disadvantaged current PSVR is in capability vs PC vr solutions, and that's only going to continue now. Either they support it but don't require devs to make games work on PSVR1.0, or they do require it and it hamstrings VR advancement in any big title across all platforms which is a real shame.
Well he is right. They have about 4.6% attach rate, which isn't that good, when they also had really good bundles last fall(?). Kinnect that sold 24 milion by feb 2013 had at that point an attach rate of 30%.
I think the PSVR's (and other VR headsets) biggest problem is that the technology isn't just there yet. Most people find it cool when trying it out for the first time but are not interested of sitting with VR when playing. When they become light and wireless in the form of ski googles the technology will be ready for mass market. It's also problematic that it forces you to cut out the world -> not being able to see your wife/husband/kids while playing a game. That is a major problem which will hold VR back for a long time imo.
To conclude, there are two major problems with VR, a technical and a psychological.
But then again I could be wrong and VR could blow up in next gen. I'm a bit pessimistic.
The headset is fine. I just want better wands/hand controllers. I hope we can get alternative controllers with PS5.
The whole tracking solution is the biggest problem (well that and not sticks on the moves). I can't see myself buying a PSVR2 if we're stuck with the same shitty camera/light tracking.
The latter problem is already solved with passthrough tech, which you can also do with any decent headphones (and certainly ones you'd want for VR in the future probably). Like, these problems are basically completely fixed it's just a matter of adoption and cost to push them to market. PSVR 1.0 is outdated by more than half a decade (yes, prior to its launch) already.
Altough i barely use it... i am happy to read that Sony wont drop VR. Its not a daily use for me but each time i put that machine on my head its magic.
Their building a pretty good game library for it and if its all BC their off to something great i think
Their building a pretty good game library for it and if its all BC their off to something great i think
Unless PSVR2 headset unit have eye tracking or new tech that PSVR can't reproduce, I think VR headset should view as a display and most PS5 VR games should be compatible.
I think Sony will still focus on seated or limited play area experience which PSVR1 totally capable.
I don't see any problem to let PSVR1 competible for games like flight sim, racer etc.
As for marketing, maybe just use input method as a gate instead of the headset.
PSVR working on PS5 was the best thing they could announce early, along with PS4 Backwards Compatibility.
At least the headset won't be left gathering dust while we wait for PSVR 2.
At least the headset won't be left gathering dust while we wait for PSVR 2.
Yeah, I hadn't really thought of VR compatible games vs VR required games. I was thinking of 'PSVR' games as the VR required games.
I guess games that are first and foremost PS4 or PS5 games, with VR modes, they could sit outside the model without too much confusion. I suppose you're not going to reasonably pick up a PS5 game with a 'PSVR compatible' byline on it, and expect it to run on your PS4.
Indeed, in that sense, maybe another simpler model is to simply decouple the box from the VR version entirely - so you have your PS4 game or your PS5 game, and it has a PSVR compatible/required label or a PSVR2 compatible/required label.
That would break the insistence that any 'PSVR game' runs on PS4, but maybe that's OK and not so difficult to grasp. Especially if we're going to be waiting a couple of years for PSVR2.
Maybe they could do that. I think you need to come up with some easily grokkable label that communicates that the platforms are controller rather than headset dependent though, while capturing that they're VR. I guess that's where marketing/product strategy people make their money!
Then again... is support for legacy hardware maybe holding back new innovations? You could see it from a different point of view.
Announcing PS5 support fixed the barf-inducing camera drift problem, severe tracking issues, and lacklustre controller solution?
Wow!
Wow!
It'll be up to devs/publishers which PSVR they want to support or not. Like cross-gen console games - sure, they're 'held back' by the last gen machine. But more and more you get stuff targeting only the newest generation of tech.
I suppose as always it is dictated by the pace of market transition to the new hardware. The better Sony supports PSVR now and in the next couple of years, the more likely that audience is to buy into a new PSVR2 generation sooner, IMO. It's an early adopter audience, relatively small, and probably relatively hungry for improvement. So if you balance that early adopter hunger for novelty and improvement, with faith that Sony will support PSVR2 well given a good track record with PSVR, then I think ongoing support and support onto the PS5 will actually ultimately accelerate PSVR2's adoption rate and the pace that the bulk of the market and the software moves onto that tech exclusively.
Feels pretty good to be vindicated when it comes to backwards compatibility. I've said numerous times how PS4 BC was a guaranteed thing on the PS5 - the reasons are clear - but the biggest reason being PSVR and that Sony would be smarter than to reset their competitive advantage to zero when it comes to an area where they are the market leader.
Depends on how cheap the current PSVR drops to and how pricey the new version is going to be. $199 vs $399 for some people is all the difference needed to go for the cheaper option. Many people bought PS2/PS3 after PS3/PS4 were on the market.
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PSVR1 working via baccompat is a good thing. I didn't think it would happen for the longest time, and I was fine with that (old tracking system, proprietary camera port). Understandably, most other people feel differently.
Even as a PSVR owner, I'm not super pleased about earlier PS5 VR titles potentially being designed around the old tracking system. But, if all of that is indeed abstracted in software and doesn't drastically affect the games (just like it mostly doesn't affect multi-plats now), then I guess that things are fine. Games being handled like Blood and Truth & (the launch version of) Space Junkies make me really nervous though.
Also, the Aim - what a headache. Not only is it not being fully utilized for current PSVR (or flat tv gaming lightgun ports [Namco, Sega, Sony - WTF are you doing???]), but it now it - the band-aid to end all band-aids - will be carried into the Next Generation, like Move before it. *Sigh*
Even as a PSVR owner, I'm not super pleased about earlier PS5 VR titles potentially being designed around the old tracking system. But, if all of that is indeed abstracted in software and doesn't drastically affect the games (just like it mostly doesn't affect multi-plats now), then I guess that things are fine. Games being handled like Blood and Truth & (the launch version of) Space Junkies make me really nervous though.
Also, the Aim - what a headache. Not only is it not being fully utilized for current PSVR (or flat tv gaming lightgun ports [Namco, Sega, Sony - WTF are you doing???]), but it now it - the band-aid to end all band-aids - will be carried into the Next Generation, like Move before it. *Sigh*
Oculus and Vive offer this by default because of the platform, i.e. PC. It's not a given on consoles, and at the same time growth in the VR gaming market seems to be coming primarily from consoles anyway, so this announcement from Sony is both a great thing for existing PSVR owners as well as developers who can have confidence their VR game releasing soon will be playable on the new box.
Not everything has to be about corporate cheerleaders and fanboyism. People can actually praise a positive move for the simple fact of it being positive.
It certainly needs a much better tracking system in the future-- along with a bevy of other features, honestly. And I would be amazed if they didn't release a better version in the early stages of PS5. I wonder how allowing the old system to coexist will work with that.
Well they're gonna allow the PS5 to play Gen-1 games. I think most of them being enhanced by the new hardware as a perk of the console. Once the Gen-2 hardware is out, I think they would probably cease development of Gen-1 games and stop promoting it. So, it would still be a valid solution for those who want to spend less, but the marketing will shift to the new hotness.
Right. I guess I was wondering about how a new tracking system would work when it has to be fully compatible with the old tracking system.
Oh, I see. I don't think it will work that way.
It will probably be as simple as: you can plug the old hardware into the PS5's ports and it will be compatible. Not the other way around. So PSVR 2.0 would have a new everything: camera, headset, controllers and dedicated games. You can't use Move controllers or PS4 Camera with the new headset, and you can't use new controllers and camera solution with the old headset.
Although it would be cool if Sony could retroactively make PS4 VR games use the new tracking system.
This certainly would make sense, and be a really great way to entice people to upgrade, or jump in if they already have PS4 VR titles they'd like to play.
Should be possible to give the positional data without issue to the game requesting it, regardless of origin. Potential side effects would then be in-game features designed to counteract the inherent flaws of PSVR's tracking, for instance.
It was always in Sony's best interests to support PSVR1 on PS5. Starting the PS5 VR installed base from scratch would have killed a ton of their momentum. And I also expect Sony will continue to include PSVR1 support in most games after PSVR 2 comes out- that's just the norm for PCVR devs who have to make compromises to optimize their games for various VR devices with varying degrees of tracking and input capabilities.
Just because PS5 will be able to understand PSVR's form of transmission and reception of tracking data doesn't meant PS5 won't also be able to understand a new format of tracking data transmission and receipt. Whatever tracking method PSVR 2 HMD's and controllers use, you just might need a new camera/sensor that was designed to "see" those emissions.
move controller - basically supports position and rotation in 3D space, a trigger and some buttons. Those would all be pretty much default features of any PSVR2 controller, but with much more robust tracking
Wow it's insane how any news towards VR is taken everytime with so much negativity.
For anyone really interested in VR this is such a great news.
Cerny said that PS5 will be compatible with gen 1 PSVR. That's all and that's great.
He didn't said anything about Gen 1 being forward compatible with Gen 2.
And honestly Gen 1 should be FC as long as it can.
Sony has already showed us that they have no problem with games only being available with specific control inputs with the Move so why wouldn't apply the same logic in the future with whatever control scheme they bring with PSVR2? Or tracking scheme?
If there are games that could be played on both gen 1 and gen 2 there isn't a single reason why they shouldn't do this.
For anyone really interested in VR this is such a great news.
Cerny said that PS5 will be compatible with gen 1 PSVR. That's all and that's great.
He didn't said anything about Gen 1 being forward compatible with Gen 2.
And honestly Gen 1 should be FC as long as it can.
Sony has already showed us that they have no problem with games only being available with specific control inputs with the Move so why wouldn't apply the same logic in the future with whatever control scheme they bring with PSVR2? Or tracking scheme?
If there are games that could be played on both gen 1 and gen 2 there isn't a single reason why they shouldn't do this.
Hopefully the new controllers will be compatible with PSVR1 titles so some of these games like borderlands and firewall:ZH are playable. Any time I try to play the position of the moon and the planets are misaligned causing my setup to drift. There's times when it's fine but not when you want to play.
Is there anything stopping Sony from releasing a Move2 now that doesn't use the camera for tracking and has a completely different tracking method?