• Introducing Image Options for ResetEra 2.0! Check the left side navigation bar to show or hide images, avatars, covers, and embedded media. More details at the link.
  • Community Spotlight sign-ups are open once again for both Gaming and EtcetEra Hangout threads! If you want to shine a spotlight on your community, please register now.

Sony PlayStation: First Party Studios |OT4| Because we're skipping 3

Jun 21, 2018
158
Sony policy is to pay 1.5x for OT past 8 hrs and 2x for OT past 12 hrs. Most junior and mid level employees get paid an hourly rate instead of a salary for this reason.
Oh good! (This is sadly not universal).

By PR friendly I think he means things like ignoring talking about crunch in too much detail. I see what he means tbh, and I thought the same thing when I watched it.

Don't agree with the eyeroll inducing "unsustainable AAA industry" comment though.
Of course PS/SSM aren't going to release a documentary that portrays them in a negative light but I agree that it didn't seem particularly PR friendly. Schreier has, quite rightly, been very strongly pushing the idea of unionisation and talking about the "unsustainable" industry for a while now though and it may colour his opinion. He probably just wanted a bigger focus on the crunch and pressures involved but I don't feel like it glossed over the sacrifices made either. Just like people who wanted more focus on the actual development of certain parts of the game there is only so much time for each aspect in a 2 hour doc.
I imagine Schreier has had a lot of stories from Santa Monica hit his inbox so, compared to those anecdotes, it probably does feel sanitized and 'PR friendly' (after all, it was tough, but they triumphed right?). But the doc never really shows, say, a senior employee losing their temper and taking it out on somebody, or talks to anybody who left.

I think the documentary is extraordinary—with an unprecedented amount of access in this context. But it'd be foolish to think a whole bunch of higher ups at Sony had no veto power over what got to stay in and what got cut.
 
Apr 6, 2018
2,420
I imagine Schreier has had a lot of stories from Santa Monica hit his inbox so, compared to those anecdotes, it probably does feel sanitized and 'PR friendly' (after all, it was tough, but they triumphed right?). But the doc never really shows, say, a senior employee losing their temper and taking it out on somebody, or talks to anybody who left.

I think the documentary is extraordinary—with an unprecedented amount of access in this context. But it'd be foolish to think a whole bunch of higher ups at Sony had no veto power over what got to stay in and what got cut.
Yup. I don't see why people are getting defensive over this - of course Sony isn't going to advertise the shady parts of development at their company.
 
Oct 30, 2017
472
Well it received good reviews in Germany and after I finished it and got my platinum trophy I can agree with reviews that are around 8/10 / 8x%, really hoping for a sequel, especially with the story at the end ...

Maybe a bit shorter and less tech issues and it would be an even better game, but overall I really enjoyed it.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,317
I imagine Schreier has had a lot of stories from Santa Monica hit his inbox so, compared to those anecdotes, it probably does feel sanitized and 'PR friendly' (after all, it was tough, but they triumphed right?). But the doc never really shows, say, a senior employee losing their temper and taking it out on somebody, or talks to anybody who left.

I think the documentary is extraordinary—with an unprecedented amount of access in this context. But it'd be foolish to think a whole bunch of higher ups at Sony had no veto power over what got to stay in and what got cut.
It's possible but I don't think we can presume Schreier has been inundated with stories about Santa Monica specifically. That's just speculation. He may have sources there but more likely he's just more informed about what it's actually like to work on a big AAA game.

I don't think not showing the worst things that go on in a AAA studio makes it 'PR friendly' though, this isn't an expose or a documentary about what it's like to work at Santa Monica. The subject matter is how the game is made and crunch/work conditions is only one small part of that (and I dare say the least interesting aspect to most). To me, there is no value in showing a heated argument or someone losing it if footage of that even exists but there is a few exchanges in there where there seems to be disagreement. Perhaps they could have included more of those to highlight the tension of working on a project like this.

I don't disagree that people would have looked at it to make sure nothing reflected too badly but without knowing what was (or wasn't) cut it is hard to know whether it is a sanitised version of events. It is, after all, a documentary on how one of the games of the generation was made so it having a positive narrative is not out of the ordinary. If you view it with the mindset of wanting to see how hard it is to work in AAA development, however, I can see how you would be left wishing it was more revealing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,151
It's possible but I don't think we can presume Schreier has been inundated with stories about Santa Monica specifically. That's just speculation. He may have sources there but more likely he's just more informed about what it's actually like to work on a big AAA game.

I don't think not showing the worst things that go on in a AAA studio makes it 'PR friendly' though, this isn't an expose or a documentary about what it's like to work at Santa Monica. The subject matter is how the game is made and crunch/work conditions is only one small part of that (and I dare say the least interesting aspect to most). To me, there is no value in showing a heated argument or someone losing it if footage of that even exists but there is a few exchanges in there where there seems to be disagreement. Perhaps they could have included more of those to highlight the tension of working on a project like this.

I don't disagree that people would have looked at it to make sure nothing reflected too badly but without knowing what was (or wasn't) cut it is hard to know whether it is a sanitised version of events. It is, after all, a documentary on how one of the games of the generation was made so it having a positive narrative is not out of the ordinary. If you view it with the mindset of wanting to see how hard it is to work in AAA development, however, I can see how you would be left wishing it was more revealing.
If you want to know how it is to work in AAA games ( hell sometimes it don't even have to be AAA) there much better places\way to find out that stuff.
So no one should expect this Doc to cover something like that .
Truth is the doc don't have to go into certain detail for you to know that certain things can happen when so much pressure is on people .
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,448
That AAAs are unsustainable is one of his recurrent thoughts. He might be right, there are certainly aspects in need of change. But the key metric for companies is revenue, income, and in that sense, some are faring really well.

In my opinion, AAAs will continue to exist as they are, as long as they're commercially succesful.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,151
That AAAs are unsustainable is one of his recurrent thoughts. He might be right, there are certainly aspects in need of change. But the key metric for companies is revenue, income, and in that sense, some are faring really well.

In my opinion, AAAs will continue to exist as they are, as long as they're commercially succesful.
Come next gen companies going to be making even more money thanks to people moving more and more to DD.
This gen they are seeing really good profits .
Sony growing there IP so big this gen give them a lot of room next gen profit wise.
So i expect them to invest more into the studios they have now.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,448
Come next gen companies going to be making even more money thanks to people moving more and more to DD.
This gen they are seeing really good profits .
Sony growing there IP so big this gen give them a lot of room next gen profit wise.
So i expect them to invest more into the studios they have now.
Yeah, and in theory, the more people working on the same project, the less pressing conditions should be for employees. At least, that's what I hope (R* had a staff in the hundreds and "crunch time" was still ordinary).
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,889
Malaysia
The documentary was PR-friendly in the sense that it is ultimately a feel-good-story. There were a ton of sacrifices/crunch/etc - but it was all (kinda) worth it in the end because GoW was a critical darling and commercial success that elevated the franchise to new heights.

For every development story like GoW's ( plenty of crunch, indecision, risk, fear, new ideas, success ), there's probably a dozen more that ended up with a mediocre product or a flop.

If Anthem was a 10/10 GotG-caliber game and a huge success - one could've easily seen a similar documentary that praises the "BioWare magic" delivering a magical experience. But it wasn't. So there was no feel-good-happy-ending to fall back to.
 
Oct 31, 2017
1,154
Home
Though it has its own thread, these are related news: PSVR exclusive The Persistence (published by Sony) is getting the non-VR treatment.

4K, 60fps, HDR, new UI and animations, improved camera... It was pretty well received last year, now, or whenever the patch is available, more people will be able to enjoy it.
Wasn't the game self-published by Firesprite?

EDIT: Yup, it was. (Source: https://www.playstation.com/en-ca/games/the-persistence-ps4/)
Developer: Firesprite Ltd
Publisher: Firesprite Ltd
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,576


With Sony talking about wanting to do better in the multiplayer arena, it's pretty clear that they could really get their foot in the door with whatever property Simon is directing for Guerrilla. Hopefully it's a new IP.
 
Oct 31, 2017
117
Oh wow, this is a really good video showcasing the variety of Dreams so far and it's still missing tons of unique things I've seen:

Holy shit some of these are amazing. I can only imagine what games will be like when the community start to collaborate together

Though it has its own thread, these are related news: PSVR exclusive The Persistence (published by Sony) is getting the non-VR treatment.

4K, 60fps, HDR, new UI and animations, improved camera... It was pretty well received last year, now, or whenever the patch is available, more people will be able to enjoy it.
I really enjoyed The Persistence, really is a sleeper hit imho
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,237
One day we’ll be able to talk about potential multiplayer games in here without ppl acting like Sony gonna drop every thing they doing and assigning all 14? Studios to do multiplayer
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,797
Vienna
GTS is a great MP racer.
Driveclub was planned as MP focused racer with lots of clubs...
Tlou2 will hopefully have an amazing MP mode.
Dreams supports MP games in the future.
Death Stranding could have a MP mode.
Some very good Sony MP games for PSVR like RIGS, Firewall or Starblood Arena.

Not that bad imo.
 
Oct 31, 2017
1,154
Home
GTS is a great MP racer.
Driveclub was planned as MP focused racer with lots of clubs...
Tlou2 will hopefully have an amazing MP mode.
Dreams supports MP games in the future.
Death Stranding could have a MP mode.
Some very good Sony MP games for PSVR like RIGS, Firewall or Starblood Arena.

Not that bad imo.
Out of the three, only one was successful: Firewall Zero Hour. RIGS' devs were closed down back in 2017 and Starblood Arena is having its servers shutdown this summer iirc, which would make the game unplayable. :/
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,797
Vienna
Out of the three, only one was successful: Firewall Zero Hour. RIGS' devs were closed down back in 2017 and Starblood Arena is having its servers shutdown this summer iirc, which would make the game unplayable. :/
RIGS was a successful PSVR launch title and the closure of GG Cambridge was known before launch.

And from what I heard, Starblood Arena was very good but not very successful.
 
Oct 27, 2017
655
Sony has alot of good online ips like Warhawk, MAG, and SOCOM they can bring any of those back.
MAG was honestly ahead of its time on the PS3

I think Warhawk would still do well too.

Unfortunately I feel like they messed up the SOCOM brand a lot on the PS3. It could def come back and perform well though since it’s still more recognized than the other two
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,320
NJ
Sony has alot of good online ips like Warhawk, MAG, and SOCOM they can bring any of those back.
MAG was NOT good...

Best chance they have IMO is with TLOu2. Millions are going in for the SP, make the MP amazing and you have a second community instantly off the back of the players there for the story. If it’s really amazing release it standalone.

I think Warhawk is unique enough to stand out. But Socom is dead, COD/BF took that mantle up a long time ago. And Rainbow 6 as well.
 
Last edited:
Apr 6, 2018
2,420
GTS is a great MP racer.
Driveclub was planned as MP focused racer with lots of clubs...
Tlou2 will hopefully have an amazing MP mode.
Dreams supports MP games in the future.
Death Stranding could have a MP mode.
Some very good Sony MP games for PSVR like RIGS, Firewall or Starblood Arena.

Not that bad imo.
It is bad.

Driveclub was a shambles, and the rest of the AAA games there are primarily single player with MP tacked on. The VR games never caught on and are (from Sony's POV) just inexpensive little projects.

Of those only GTS is a great example.

MAG was NOT good...

Best chance they have IMO is with TLOu2. Millions are going in for the SP, make the MP amazing and you have a second community instantly off the back of the players there for the story. If it’s really amazing release it standalone.

I think Warhawk is unique enough to stand out. But Socom is dead, COD/BF took that mantle up a long time ago. And Rainbow 6 as well.
The MP will need a lot more content than the MP of TLOU1 (and even UC4) to excel as a standalone.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,582
SOCOM has A LOT of potential in the service model. SOCOM 1 and 2 most of the people I knew just wanted to be milked dry - more maps, guns, skins. It was an e-sport game before it was really a thing. SOCOMBattles > GameBattles > MLG, most people don't realize that. Dance emotes? The community was already doing them 16 years ago now. Skins, sometimes unconventional for the theme? Already used to it.

A true sequel to SOCOM 2, small-scale CQC with 8v8 matches, asymmetrical maps with dedicated modes.

I still get text messages from people I used to play with over a decade ago asking if I know of any SOCOM news since I follow game news and used to know some people with inside information. The thirst is still there.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,320
NJ
It is bad.

Driveclub was a shambles, and the rest of the AAA games there are primarily single player with MP tacked on. The VR games never caught on and are (from Sony's POV) just inexpensive little projects.

Of those only GTS is a great example.



The MP will need a lot more content than the MP of TLOU1 (and even UC4) to excel as a standalone.
Indeed but with the large success of the game it’s worth investing in if the MP is even somewhat popular.
 
Oct 27, 2017
629
SOCOM has A LOT of potential in the service model. SOCOM 1 and 2 most of the people I knew just wanted to be milked dry - more maps, guns, skins. It was an e-sport game before it was really a thing. SOCOMBattles > GameBattles > MLG, most people don't realize that. Dance emotes? The community was already doing them 16 years ago now. Skins, sometimes unconventional for the theme? Already used to it.

A true sequel to SOCOM 2, small-scale CQC with 8v8 matches, asymmetrical maps with dedicated modes.

I still get text messages from people I used to play with over a decade ago asking if I know of any SOCOM news since I follow game news and used to know some people with inside information. The thirst is still there.
I'm really surprised that they're not considering this approach for SOCOM. It makes so much sense, it wouldn't compete with BF/COD/Destiny and offers a really unique tactical experience. Being the counter-strike of consoles sounds like a terrific idea to me, and they've seen in the past when done right and not trying to imitate COD/BF that they're very succesful. Everything was going great for SOCOM until they left that formula.

Seeing RB6 Siege have so much sucess this gen should atleast make them realize there are plenty of console gamers looking for a tactical shooter MP experience.
 
Oct 25, 2017
386
There isn't a tactical third person eSport shooter out there (or at least not one that makes enough noise on Twitch), so Socom could very much work for them if they marketed it right and actually put effort into setting up the competitive scene for it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,274
If Sony has the audacity to put out a AAA multiplayer game, then they absolutely owe us a AAA JRPG.
One has the potential to be a multimillion seller with a long tail and constant revenue if the reviews are great and the other has a huge barrier to even break a million without an established fanbase like ff, dq(mostly in Japan), kh etc... Even critical darlings like persona or nier only reached like 3 or 4 million after numerous sales.
 
Oct 26, 2017
581
If Sony has the audacity to put out a AAA multiplayer game, then they absolutely owe us a AAA JRPG.
Although I don't have any problem with a AAA Multiplayer game(PS All Star Brawler & PS All Star Kart please) but please Sony make a big scale AAA JRPG - the fanbase is literally begging for it at this point.

One has the potential to be a multimillion seller with a long tail and constant revenue if the reviews are great and the other has a huge barrier to even break a million without an established fanbase like ff, dq(mostly in Japan), kh etc... Even critical darlings like persona or nier only reached like 3 or 4 million after numerous sales.
If reviews are great and the scale is grand like the PS1 era Final Fantasy's and with Sony marketing machine it will not have any problem clearing 6 Million+. It will expand the market in Asia as well.
 
OP
OP
JuanLatino
Oct 25, 2017
923
One has the potential to be a multimillion seller with a long tail and constant revenue if the reviews are great and the other has a huge barrier to even break a million without an established fanbase like ff, dq(mostly in Japan), kh etc... Even critical darlings like persona or nier only reached like 3 or 4 million after numerous sales.
its not like there are many AAA JRPG Games out there to compete with Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts tough.
Persona & Nier are not AAA Games, which is why 3/4 Million sales are incredible given their budget.

So you either make a mid budget JRPG Game that needs fantastic scores & have great word of mouth to do well overseas....or you make a AAA Game with high end graphics, to reach that western audience.

Look at Projekt Awakening from CyGames




JRPG doesn't mean that you need Anime Stylized Characters made for that JP Audience

It's not gonna happen tough. So that dream is dead for me
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,237
its not like there are many AAA JRPG Games out there to compete with Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts tough.
Persona & Nier are not AAA Games, which is why 3/4 Million sales are incredible given their budget.

So you either make a mid budget JRPG Game that needs to score sensationally well, have great word of mouth, to do well overseas....or you make a AAA Game with high end graphics, to reach that western audience.

Look at Projekt Awakening from CyGames




JRPG doesn't mean that you need Anime Stylized Characters made for that JP Audience

It's not gonna happen tough. So that dream is dead for me
God bless Cy games btw. Anime style and Western focused style JRPG. Hnnnng plz be good