Sony updates PS3 numbers to have sold 87.4 million as of March 31, 2017 (software ~1 billion)

Talking perspective, I guess it goes both ways?

Sony had to use its PS3 to push a very expensive new device (Blu Ray), its new processor co-developped with IBM and Toshiba that MS coopted in parts (for the central core) thanks to a very shady IBM deal, and came out a whole year later, while facing a massive Software juggernaut like Microsoft with a deep knowledge of Online architectures (and extremely deep pockets).

#itsallrelative
How is that both ways? Sony made the same "mistake" as Microsoft made for their 3rd gen machine.
However, PS3 had a potential 120 million or so PS2 fans more or less waiting to upgrade whereas MS had "only" 20-30 million (i dont remember the exact number, think it was closer to 30 million).

So for that generation, MS increased userbase while Sony lowered theirs if we would compare apples to apples.

Then Sony gained back many of those lost and MS lost many...

But yeah, nothing of what you said contradicts what I said, I think.
 

D.Lo

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Nope. It beat the GameCube in Gen 6.
I have some issues with final shipped figures of consoles which get a hard discontinuation like Dreamcast and the original Xbox. Sega produced 9 million Dreamcasts, but how many had been sold when it was discontinued, and how many were liquidated for $50? Same with the Xbox, they were liquidated immediately upon the 360's launch, I got one for AU$50 brand new.

Ultimately shipped = sold, but in such circumstances it isn't an actual representation of worldwide market reception as a whole. Compare this to the gradual decline of healthier consoles (eg PS1/DS) which had final quarter shipments of ~100k, so in those cases shipped really did equal sold as shelves were empty when they were discontinued.

Also, numbered generations are a completely ridiculous fabrication by Wikipedia which make little sense when investigated in detail and also go against their charter by 'creating truth' instead of reporting on other sources. But anyway...

I think between the cheaper model and Switch Pro, it will be tussling with the Wii and PSX, but won't come near the PS4/PS2.
It is truly impossible to know such things either way.

If we were looking at the Wii in year 3-4, it looked like it would sell 200 million, minimum, but its legs were cut by Nintendo moving onto 3DS and HD development, and third parties having repeatedly shat the bed on it. PSP looked like it was going to fade, but was brought back to life by Monster Hunter in Japan. And of course Game Boy got an entire second life as a Pokemon machine.
 

TMaakkonen

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Oct 26, 2017
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So, for Vita, we can have very low-balled sales estimation. Japanese sales are around 6 million, USA sales from NPD were around 2.14 m, while I don’t have the sources now, there was a UK console sales chart which estimated 0.5 million sales there (unless if it was bad source someone could mention it). With 8.6ish million sales, I do think 10+ million is possible for Vita’s HW sales. Bare minimum of 8 million via Japan + NPD data.
 

Deleted member 49804

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AND given MS will never give sales number again we will never know the truth.
Probably.
This is extremely interesting, because they did all that changing accounting methods and 'Playstation family' crap to obscure bad figures are various points.

It actually means PS2 and PSP have been revised down from previous estimates (which were at 157 million and 80 million) but PS3 is up a bit on the semi-official sort-of total of 83.8 million to 2015.

To quote myself on this from a previous thread:



Xbox 360 was still likely 2-4 million ahead in June 2014 based on these sources, so it still seems 50/50 to me which ended up selling more.
This is a great post.
Also keep in mind, that Ps3 actually did not really have more stream than Xbox 360 lately.

last 2 reported quarters for Xbox 360
3.5 million in Q4 CY2013
0.8 million in Q1 CY2014
83.7 million total as of 31rd March 2014

equivalent Ps3 quarters
3.3 million in Q4 CY2013
0.7 million in Q1 CY2014


but anything beyond that date is unknown, because Microsoft stopped to report hardware numbers.
 
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KillerMan91

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Oct 25, 2017
2,189
Sure wish there was an accurate PSP number. At 76 million, the 3DS would surpass it. At 82 million, it wouldn't.
Well it's more than 76 million. Sony stopped manufacturing of PSP in mid 2014 and these are early 2012 shipments. For example in Japan alone PSP still sold over million units after March 2012. It's pretty weird why they can't update the final shipment figures when even PS3 seems to have the final update.
 

jroc74

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Oct 27, 2017
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I don't think anyone actually argued that the Xbox 360 sold more units than the PS3 in good faith.
I've seen someone say it didn't matter, the 360 sold more when it mattered....early in the gen till the mid way point.

Saying what happened later didn't matter...not realizing that momentum that Sony ended last gen with was a carry over to this gen....

The way Sony and MS ended last gen is exactly how this gen went:

Sony, core games, gaming
MS: Kinect

To say how last gen ended didn't matter is amazing, lol.

I see some of that sentiment is in this thread too, lol. Amazing....

MS launched a year sooner, cheaper, had the better performing 3rd party games.

Sony shot themselves in the foot several times..starting at the reveal, launch

And still outsold the 360. And may have sold more software...

But it was more of a win for the 360...

Alrighty then.
 
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LordofPwn

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Oct 27, 2017
2,518
So close yet so far. They were idiots launching ard 600 a year after.
they launched same year as Wii and the entry point was 500.

People like to forget that the 20GB PS3 existed, it was the version i bought and then i bought a 120GB HDD for like $70 at best buy and upgraded the storage, so i had double the storage of the more expensive PS3 for less. sure it didn't have wifi but neither did the 360 and i had shitty DSL internet at the time so i just hard wired it eventually, and who needs like 6 different media card slots?
 

Cess007

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Oct 27, 2017
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If this is all we're saying, I can agree. I have a hard time jumping from that to "the WiiU was a kind of success."
Yeah, anyone saying the WiiU was a success is lying lmao The PS3 is a bit harder to quailify, but it was certainly an economical failure, as well as surely a disappointment even for Sony (because it lost both marketshare and damaged the brand on the first years)
 

Anubis

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If this is all we're saying, I can agree. I have a hard time jumping from that to "the WiiU was a kind of success."
That's the thing, PS3 was a success for a lot of us gamers due to the lineup of games. As I alluded to, I believe Sony's mantra changed during the 2nd half of PS3 lifecycle. Considering this, there is no question that the PS3 led to the success of ps4.

Here is a quote from one of their key executives:

“We looked at what had happened in the PS3 era — we sort of wanted to make it more about the gamers, more about the developers,” Boyes said

Boyes and Sony also sat down and spoke to independent developers in person. The effort was the first time Sony as a company directly approached indie designers, and the complaints they heard (Boyes characterized the avalanche as “verbal diarrhea”) translated into what became some chief fixes for the PlayStation 4 from the previous console. A good thing, as Boyes commented that submitting a game to PlayStation in the past was “harder than taking the SAT.”

A good article to read.

https://venturebeat.com/2015/05/07/how-playstation-learned-to-speak-to-its-customers-between-the-ps3-and-ps4/
 

Soneji

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Oct 29, 2017
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Yeah it's always weird to read that so many people say Sony lost the PS360 generation. It's very close and it looks like PS3 slightly outsold the 360. It was such a head to head race that I don't see a clear "winner".
Units sold isn't the determining factor for "winning" except for by fanboys on a forum. Profit and marketshare are what matters, IIRC due to RRoD the 360 wasn't all that profitable but Microsoft definitely won between the two due to gaining way more marketshare than the previous gen and Sony lost due to losing it coming off the PS2. Spin it however you want, the PS3 was a disaster for the company. They did good at the end of the gen to return goodwill leading into PS4 and went totally safe into next gen, which payed off when their competitors took more risk with their next consoles and failed.
 

HeWhoWalks

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Jan 17, 2018
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I have some issues with final shipped figures of consoles which get a hard discontinuation like Dreamcast and the original Xbox. Sega produced 9 million Dreamcasts, but how many had been sold when it was discontinued, and how many were liquidated for $50? Same with the Xbox, they were liquidated immediately upon the 360's launch, I got one for AU$50 brand new.

Ultimately shipped = sold, but in such circumstances it isn't an actual representation of worldwide market reception as a whole. Compare this to the gradual decline of healthier consoles (eg PS1/DS) which had final quarter shipments of ~100k, so in those cases shipped really did equal sold as shelves were empty when they were discontinued.

Also, numbered generations are a completely ridiculous fabrication by Wikipedia which make little sense when investigated in detail and also go against their charter by 'creating truth' instead of reporting on other sources. But anyway...
i mean, we can gauge it from any means we please. I'm just saying, as of the releasing of the last figures, Xbox was ahead by 4 million. :P
 

AmFreak

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Oct 26, 2017
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they launched same year as Wii and the entry point was 500.

People like to forget that the 20GB PS3 existed, it was the version i bought and then i bought a 120GB HDD for like $70 at best buy and upgraded the storage, so i had double the storage of the more expensive PS3 for less. sure it didn't have wifi but neither did the 360 and i had shitty DSL internet at the time so i just hard wired it eventually, and who needs like 6 different media card slots?
They also "forget" that 1 year (half a year for EU) after launch it was cut to $400€ (40GB) against $350€ (20GB) or $450€ (120GB) for a HDD 360.
Making it equally priced with far less potential future costs (BD-drive, no online fee, upgradeable standard HDD).
 

Jroc

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Jun 9, 2018
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Has Microsoft given any updated numbers since mid-2014?

Such a weird split last-gen with Xbox dominating the English world and PlayStation everywhere else.

Yeah it's always weird to read that so many people say Sony lost the PS360 generation. It's very close and it looks like PS3 slightly outsold the 360. It was such a head to head race that I don't see a clear "winner".
To me it's as if Usain Bolt fell behind some rookie runner, then managed to catch up right at the end and win by a fraction of a second (while clocking in way under his record time). Sure he technically won, but you could argue the rookie came out looking more impressive.
 

D.Lo

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I've seen someone say it didn't matter, the 360 sold more when it mattered....early in the gen till the mid way point.

Saying what happened later didn't matter...not realizing that momentum that Sony ended last gen with was a carry over to this gen....

The way Sony and MS ended last gen is exactly how this gen went:

Sony, core games, gaming
MS: Kinect

To say how last gen ended didn't matter is amazing, lol.
This is an extremely myopic and/or biased view.

For one thing, as shown above there is no conclusive evidence PS3 outsold the 360, and IMO the evidence there is is 50/50 at best, as Microsoft was still clearly ahead in 2014, they even released the Xbox 360 E console model in 2013. Complaints about Microsoft's lack of transparency on the final figures are somewhat moot given Sony was even less transparent until these numbers released now.

And Microsoft were vastly ahead in the US and in the west as a whole. The only reason the PS3 was even anywhere near the 360 was Japan, where PS3 sold ~10.5 million and 360 sold essentially nothing. despite Microsoft giving it a push, they just couldn't get over the Xenophobia. Take that away (which Sony were essentially happy to in many ways anyway, handing the keys to the Playstation kingdom to the west to deliver a western-first x86 PConsole in the PS4, which they even launched later in Japan) and 360 was well ahead of PS3 everywhere else as a whole.

As for Kinect, well Sony tried their own hand at a Wii Remote ripoff too, it just failed so they mostly let it die. Microsoft screwed up hard with always online and a more expensive less powerful box, and Sony managed to pick up a lot of previous 360 owners essentially just by making a better Xbox.

Such a weird split last-gen with Xbox dominating the English world and PlayStation everywhere else.
The DS and Wii were the actual #1 and #2 of last generation in almost every territory (360 outsold the Wii in the US eventually and that's about it).

Probably.

This is a great post.
Also keep in mind, that Ps3 actually did not really have more stream than Xbox 360 lately.

last 2 reported quarters for Xbox 360
3.5 million in Q4 CY2013
0.8 million in Q1 CY2014
83.7 million total as of 31rd March 2014

equivalent Ps3 quarters
1.1 million in Q4 CY2013
2.0 million in Q1 CY2014

but anything beyond that date is unknown, because Microsoft stopped to report hardware numbers.
Yeah to me it still looks like a toss up which sold more, if pushed I'd lean to 360 based on what you've shown here too.
 
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Dirtyshubb

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Oct 25, 2017
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To me it's as if Usain Bolt fell behind some rookie runner, then managed to catch up right at the end and win by a fraction of a second (while clocking in way under his record time). Sure he technically won, but you could argue the rookie came out looking more impressive.
Its more like Usain started the race later than the rookie, forgot to tie his shoes so had to stop and tie them and then won the race, maintaining a higher speed then the rookie from as soon as Usain started the race and half way through the race the rookie started focusing on styling for the crowd instead of focusing on the race.
 

Sonicfan059

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Mar 4, 2018
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We already knew this for years :) PS3 outsold the Xbox 360 with a couple of millions. And the PS3 launched 1 year later. Still very impressive for a $599 monster at launch ;D

The PS3 did outsell it. Even tho it launched 1 year later.
More than a year later in Europe. ;) Also it sold this much even with the collapse of the Japanese console market. If consoles were still strong like the gen before it, it would have done PS1 numbers.
 

D.Lo

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Technically we will be debating this for all eternity, but officially the PS3 has now outsold 360 and we may never get another update on MS side so it is what it is now.
The problem with this argument is that officially the 360 had outsold the PS3 until a couple of hours ago, but the dominant narrative for the last five years has been 'while not official, it's generally understood that PS3 would have overtaken the 360'.
 

Welfare

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Oct 26, 2017
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Lol, don't know why people insist on using that 84M number for Xbox 360 when it was all the way back in 2014. Microsoft still reported on combined Xbox shipment data for a few more quarters so you could try and estimate 360 and One during that time. This was attempted back on GAF.

The two are still very much "tied" until MS give an update on the 360.

Never thought Sony would update is on PS3 anyway, so it's nice to see.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,883
People arguing over such a tiny difference between the consoles.

This is an extremely myopic and/or biased view.

For one thing, as shown above there is no conclusive evidence PS3 outsold the 360, and IMO the evidence there is is 50/50 at best, as Microsoft was still clearly ahead in 2014, they even released the Xbox 360 E console model in 2013. Complaints about Microsoft's lack of transparency on the final figures are somewhat moot given Sony was even less transparent until these numbers released now.

And Microsoft were vastly ahead in the US and in the west as a whole. The only reason the PS3 was even anywhere near the 360 was Japan, where PS3 sold ~10.5 million and 360 sold essentially nothing. despite Microsoft giving it a push, they just couldn't get over the Xenophobia. Take that away (which Sony were essentially happy to in many ways anyway, handing the keys to the Playstation kingdom to the west to deliver a western-first x86 PConsole in the PS4, which they even launched later in Japan) and 360 was well ahead of PS3 everywhere else as a whole.
I don't think it had anything to do with xenophobia. Otherwise, the X360 wouldn't have sold the way it did only for the X1 to absolutely crater. It just means that is as much appeal they have there.

As for the bold statements, I don't see how those can be remotely true. A single country isn't going to make up for all that. The PS3 was outdoing the X360 launch aligned worldwide.
 

Ascenion

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Oct 25, 2017
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I've seen someone say it didn't matter, the 360 sold more when it mattered....early in the gen till the mid way point.

Saying what happened later didn't matter...not realizing that momentum that Sony ended last gen with was a carry over to this gen....

The way Sony and MS ended last gen is exactly how this gen went:

Sony, core games, gaming
MS: Kinect

To say how last gen ended didn't matter is amazing, lol.

I see some of that sentiment is in this thread too, lol. Amazing....

MS launched a year sooner, cheaper, had the better performing 3rd party games.

Sony shot themselves in the foot several times..starting at the reveal, launch

And still outsold the 360. And may have sold more software...

But it was more of a win for the 360...

Alrighty then.
It depends on how you look at it. Sony ‘won’ but lost more than Microsoft who gained a ton and grew the Xbox to a position where it can weather the Xbox One. Mind you Microsoft would never be relying on Xbox like Sony relies on Playstation because if you actually diversify your conglomerate properly one aspect won’t almost kill you.
 

D.Lo

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Oct 25, 2017
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I don't think it had anything to do with xenophobia. Otherwise, the X360 wouldn't have sold the way it did only for the X1 to absolutely crater. It just means that is as much appeal they have there.
Huh? 360 and X1 were both bombs in Japan. X1 bombed harder because Microsoft gave up, but given the effort and the fact it played almost all the same games as PS3 with better performance at a lower price, there's really no other explanation outside of nationalism of some sort.

As for the bold statements, I don't see how those can be remotely true. A single country isn't going to make up for all that. The PS3 was outdoing the X360 launch aligned worldwide.
Again, huh?

It's a hard fact that the 360 outsold the PS3 outside of Japan. PS3 outsold the 360 by at least 9 million in Japan, but essentially drew even worldwide, which means 360 outsold PS3 by a lot outside of Japan.

Launch aligned is an irrelevance, final totals are what matter when discussing, you know, final totals.
 

Snakeeee

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Jan 20, 2019
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Huh? 360 and X1 were both bombs in Japan. X1 bombed harder because Microsoft gave up, but given the effort and the fact it played almost all the same games as PS3 with better performance at a lower price, there's really no other explanation outside of nationalism of some sort.

Again, huh?

It's a hard fact that the 360 outsold the PS3 outside of Japan. PS3 outsold the 360 by at least 9 million in Japan, but essentially drew even worldwide, which means 360 outsold PS3 by a lot outside of Japan.

Launch aligned is an irrelevance, final totals are what matter when discussing, you know, final totals.
Uh, no.

The 360 didn't outsold the ps3 in europe, the only country they outsold the ps3 was UK.(in european continent)
 

SG-17

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And remember that the majority of the 7th generation took place during The Great Recession.
 

IIFloodyII

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Oct 26, 2017
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Decent numbers but the console nearly put Sony out of business. So it's still kind of a failure.
Without the lessons learned of the PS3 they probably wouldn't have had the success of the PS4 and their 1st party certainly wouldn't have been as good, so not a complete failure.
Shows how strong the brand is too, very few would have went on to sell just under 90m with such a bad start.
 

IIFloodyII

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Oct 26, 2017
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It depends on how you look at it. Sony ‘won’ but lost more than Microsoft who gained a ton and grew the Xbox to a position where it can weather the Xbox One. Mind you Microsoft would never be relying on Xbox like Sony relies on Playstation because if you actually diversify your conglomerate properly one aspect won’t almost kill you.
It wasn't just 1 aspect of Sony that was fucked at that time.
 

Fafalada

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Oct 27, 2017
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The only reason the PS3 was even anywhere near the 360 was Japan, where PS3 sold ~10.5 million and 360 sold essentially nothing.
I wouldn't call 1.6M nearly nothing. It's outsold all the other XBoxes combined by a factor of 3. Sure that still leaves nearly 9M difference, which is still much smaller than the amount 360 won by in US. Basically the reason PS3 'won' is EU and other territories - and the reason 360 is as close as it is because last I checked - it's the 2nd best selling console of all time in US, beaten only by the PS2.
 

D.Lo

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Oct 25, 2017
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Uh, no.

The 360 didn't outsold the ps3 in europe, the only country they outsold the ps3 was UK.(in european continent)
Uh, yes. Please read more carefully before commenting next time.

Microsoft were vastly ahead in the US and in the west as a whole. The only reason the PS3 was even anywhere near the 360 was Japan, where PS3 sold ~10.5 million and 360 sold essentially nothing.
I very clearly wrote the 360 was ahead of the PS3 in the west as a whole. North America+Europe combined.

360 had a huge lead in the US, PS3 a smaller lead in Europe (lol at using pre-Kinect explosion 2008 figures in you links), and combined the 360 was clearly well ahead by ~9 million in the west as a whole. Japan was the differentiator that pulled the PS3 up even with the 360.

Reality is both were losers, DS and Wii still won every major territory except the US where the 360 eventually overtook the Wii.

Heck, the only reason either PS3 or 360 got as high as they did was the generation was artificially prolonged by a cold war between Sony and MS. Both had lost so many billions they wanted to recoup some of their losses before launching another loss-leading next gen.

It was eight years between the 360 launch and the Xbox One launch, insanely long historically for consoles.
 

AmFreak

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Oct 26, 2017
923
Huh? 360 and X1 were both bombs in Japan. X1 bombed harder because Microsoft gave up, but given the effort and the fact it played almost all the same games as PS3 with better performance at a lower price, there's really no other explanation outside of nationalism of some sort.

Again, huh?

It's a hard fact that the 360 outsold the PS3 outside of Japan. PS3 outsold the 360 by at least 9 million in Japan, but essentially drew even worldwide, which means 360 outsold PS3 by a lot outside of Japan.

Launch aligned is an irrelevance, final totals are what matter when discussing, you know, final totals.
I like that this logic is only ever brought up against Japan, a country which has always been the odd man out in terms of game taste.
While the rest of the major console markets play the same games - the charts look(ed) the same everywhere.
And still, despite the same tastes the Xbox has always been unnaturally strong in the US (and to a lesser degree it's wannabe cousin the UK), the country where it came from ...
 

Sangetsu-II

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Oct 26, 2017
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Lol, don't know why people insist on using that 84M number for Xbox 360 when it was all the way back in 2014. Microsoft still reported on combined Xbox shipment data for a few more quarters so you could try and estimate 360 and One during that time. This was attempted back on GAF.

The two are still very much "tied" until MS give an update on the 360.

Never thought Sony would update is on PS3 anyway, so it's nice to see.
Well 360 stopped production in 2016 and PS3 went until 2017 so we can say that PS3 last update in March 2017 is higher than 360 production line.
 

Shambalakan

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Oct 27, 2017
930
That's an amazing number for any console, let alone a console with these conditions:
1. $200 more than X360 and $250 more than Wii.
2. Released a year after X360.
3. Making games for it was so hard at the beginning.
 

D.Lo

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Oct 25, 2017
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Oh you're putting US+Europe together? That's like putting together Europe + Asia to say that 'outside of USA' the PS3 had a huge dominance in last gen. It's weird, but technically correct, I guess
It was very clear in context that the point I was making was that Japan is all that got the PS3 to even with the 360.

And really, Europe and NA are clearly much more similar markets than either is to Japan. Outside of buying different EA Sports games and some minor regional variation, the top selling games are largely equivalent in those territories - For non-Nintendo platforms, COD, GTA, EA, and the big Ubisoft and Activision games all top the charts in both areas.
 

LordofPwn

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Oct 27, 2017
2,518
now that i've thought about this more, will Xbox One be able to meet Xbox 360 numbers? last year the estimate was less than 40m i thought and MS wont give details. like yeah PS3 may have won in the end but what MS was able to do with 360 was pretty incredible, especially compared to the OG Xbox.
 

The Last One

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Oct 25, 2017
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now that i've thought about this more, will Xbox One be able to meet Xbox 360 numbers? last year the estimate was less than 40m i thought and MS wont give details. like yeah PS3 may have won in the end but what MS was able to do with 360 was pretty incredible, especially compared to the OG Xbox.
I doubt that Xbox One will even get close to 360's numbers.
 

NoUse4AName

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Feb 5, 2019
181
Sony with the PS3 has a pretty bad first 2 Years then...Sony just works their way to a great Comeback with an amazing output of software and working on the price and IMO did a great work keeping the momentum with PS4.

Also, XBox360 stopped production first so there is not rocket Science on Ps3 Outselling X360 at the end of their cycle.