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Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
Pretty bad for PSNow.

Considering it's only available in 19 countries (quite a few of them only recently added), 700k isn't THAT bad. And it's even more understandable when you think how shitty it was originally (price, tech, available games were pretty poor). It wasn't really a service worth subscribing for many years. They've improved the service and only done some of the more essential changes in the last year or so (like, downloading games to your PS4 has barely been available for half a year at this point, AFAIK). Plus of course improved the offerings.

I imagine they can do a kind of relaunch for PSNow with PS5 as they've matured the technology & service a bit more into something more desirable, which could help them grow it substantially. Especially if they pair it with a "get a PS5 and immediately have access to hundreds of PS4 games" marketing blitz and you get the benefits of PS5 to all your PS4 games through PSNow as well (at least if downloaded to your console, if not through streaming).
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Serious question but why do Microsoft push gamepass if it means such a decrease in revenue?
They can weather the storm without feeling it. The reward for big sub numbers is pretty significant, if they get 10 mill subs for instance, thats a recurring $80 mil every month without releasing a game.
 

Premium

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
836
NC
LOL Not happening. Streaming market is extremely niche and ppl's expectation's on the current market is overrated.

If VR is niche and can generate over 1 million users under 2 years on market (with dedicated hardware requirements), then PSNow should be much higher than 700k over 5 years.

It's an embarrassing number that highlights what a mediocre service it's been and points to how much it's been ignored by Sony since launch.

With streaming being a core focus for the next generation, they have no choice but to embrace it or be left behind.
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
According to Matt the relative proportions from the superdata analysis were roughly correct. Since that was revenue you'd have to adjust for the price difference, but it would still imply GP subs are below PS Now.
As mentioned earlier, Rare revealed they've reached 5 mill playerbase, roughly half of those are from GP, so its easily over 700k.
 

GTVision

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,068
5 years after launch which is the truly embarrassing part.
Yeah, cause look at all the competitors with way higher numbers for their game streaming services...

They clearly didn't put all their efforts into this service to get these figures way up. It's tech that wasn't perfect, but it's getting a lot better. The price point is also pretty high for mass market appeal, especially considering the old games which are included.
 

Premium

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
836
NC
Yeah, cause look at all the competitors with way higher numbers for their game streaming services...

They clearly didn't put all their efforts into this service to get these figures way up. It's tech that wasn't perfect, but it's getting a lot better. The price point is also pretty high for mass market appeal, especially considering the old games which are included.

If price is such a barrier, then why a 1 million plus users for VR where price is even higher w/ dedicated hardware?

The logic doesn't match the service's mediocre performance.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,487
As mentioned earlier, Rare revealed they've reached 5 mill playerbase, roughly half of those are from GP, so its easily over 700k.

But we have no idea how many recurring subscriptions they have. They'll have giant peaks when games launch (three times now, cuz I think Crackdown 3 didn't do much). Sure, probably more than 3 million people have used Game Pass. But could well be 90% of them have not subscribed for the service for a whole year or a month to month basis.
 

lynux3

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
569
I don't understand how this is bad for PSNow. Yes, it's been 5 years, but very limited in availability. They just expanded quite a bit recently and the real news is that PSNow growth is +40% YoY. That's pretty damn impressive for a service that is hardly marketed with a slow expansion rate. I foresee this continuing going into next generation and as competitors catch up.
 

Braaier

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
13,237
Wow, 700k is really bad. I remember when ppl were using super data to show how big ps now is and I knew that was bs.
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,555
UK
700k is really low. The real future of gaming to me aka VR does far better ;)

Stadia is gonna overtake PSNOW in its first year I guess, if not I can see them phase it out quietly.
All signs are pointing to the fact that Stadia isnt the same sort of product as PSNow.

So far it seems all it will be is a digital store like PSN etc. and you purchase your games and instead of downloading them you just stream them. PS Now is a subscription service where the list of games is dictated by Sony and their partners so games can come and go.

Maybe they will have some sort of subscription service but considering the games they did show off im willing to bet that will only happen if things dont take off as well as they hope for the storefront.
 

GTVision

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,068
If price is such a barrier, then why a 1 million plus users for VR where price is even higher w/ dedicated hardware?

The logic doesn't match the service's mediocre performance.
Because PSVR clearly delivers a compelling experience for that price, while at the current price point in combination with the available games PS Now does not.
Also PSVR is a different and still relatively new experience. Streaming games offers the same games, but worse on a technical level (graphics, audio, controller input).
 

Dave.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,139
[Gamepass] is a really good service that deserves success. As for NOW, it has a lot of room for improvement.

I have to wonder how much pricing is reflected in attitudes like this.

With no other changes - Imagine Gamepass for $19.99/month, occasional sale on the yearly for $100. PS Now frequently available for $1, 3x months for $5 etc. Would we still be seeing this sort of comment with such regularity?
 

Deleted member 49804

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 21, 2018
1,868
Ah yes SuperData makes up numbers that's why Nielsen have acquired them. Makes sense... makes total sense...
You think bad companies don't exist and never get bought?
Their methodology is just not good.

According to Matt the relative proportions from the superdata analysis were roughly correct. Since that was revenue you'd have to adjust for the price difference, but it would still imply GP subs are below PS Now.
And those are completely wrong, too. Both EA and Microsoft make more with EA + Origin Access and Game Pass
That person also said Xbox is rarely profitable when the division racks in between $0.6 and $1.7bn a year now.

So clearly FUD
 
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phonicjoy

Banned
Jun 19, 2018
4,305
I think the people that are in for a rude awakening are the ones discounting it all together.

Google Stadia is literally what Linux users have been waiting for since forever especially considering that Nvidia aren't going to show that side of PC computing any love with dedicated day 1 Drivers. All you need to play games at 4K on Linux now is Google Chrome. It's not just a Windows exclusive streaming service which is why it's so attractive. This is what Steam should have done a long time ago.

Google Stadia will surpass 700k subs easily lol stating anything to the contrary is just laughable.

All 6 Linux gamers must be ecstatic.
 

BradGrenz

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,507
I don't understand how this is bad for PSNow. Yes, it's been 5 years, but very limited in availability. They just expanded quite a bit recently and the real news is that PSNow growth is +40% YoY. That's pretty damn impressive for a service that is hardly marketed with a slow expansion rate. I foresee this continuing going into next generation and as competitors catch up.

Honestly, I think what it shows is Sony may be the only player with a realistic outlook about how soft the interest is in this kind of service. Google and Microsoft are seeing dollar signs, imagining hundreds of millions of people who never invested in any console system suddenly showing interest. Those people may not actually be out there.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
If price is such a barrier, then why a 1 million plus users for VR where price is even higher w/ dedicated hardware?

The logic doesn't match the service's mediocre performance.
I'm not sure why you are comparing these two since they are totally different things. PSNow offers an inferior way to play games you could just play on your console normally (possibly at a cheaper price even, if you buy from sales) at a fairly steep price in comparison to other streaming services (especially if you don't buy a year-long subscription but do it monthly) & has a very limited availability in terms of countries where you can subscribe to it. PSVR offers a whole new way to play games that you often can't play in any other way and it's available much more widely than just 19 countries (over 1/3rd of those were only added in the last month or so).
 

edo_kid

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,087
You think bad companies don't exist and never get bought?
Their methodology is just not good.

You really think one of the biggest market research companies in the world was gonna buy SuperData if they were making numbers up?
Im not saying there are 100% accurate but they sure as hell aren't taking numbers of their asses.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,351
As a recent subscriber to PS Now, they need to do a lot to improve it if they really wanna make it a pillar of PlayStation and up these numbers. It's too expensive and the library is incredibly hit and miss. The tech is fine but it's frustrating that it works great on PC but they don't have a Mac app, despite having a Mac app for Remote Play. It's frustrating that you can't use any of the PS4s screenshot/capture tools while you're playing PS Now. Yeah it's got big PlayStation games like Uncharted 1, 2 and 3 but they've chosen the PS3 versions instead of the far superior PS4 versions. There's just so many weird, rubbish things about it.

I've subscribed to PS Now on and off loads of times because there's the odd PS3 game that I want to play on a modern system instead of finding my old PS3. But it's really not a great service. None of my friends sub to PS Now. I'm not surprised Sony don't market it hard. I wouldn't.
 

kc44135

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,721
Ohio
I have to wonder how much pricing is reflected in attitudes like this.

With no other changes - Imagine Gamepass for $19.99/month, occasional sale on the yearly for $100. PS Now frequently available for $1, 3x months for $5 etc. Would we still be seeing this sort of comment with such regularity?
Yes? PS NOW is comprised mainly of older games, and the majority of it's library is streaming only (the streaming quality isn't the best, either). Gamepass allows you to download the entirety of it's library, and the library features far more new (and new-ish) games than NOW, as well as all first-party titles day one. While this point is subjective, I also just think the library of Gamepass is composed of higher quality games as a whole. As for pricing, I personally wouldn't pay $20 a month for either of them, but even at the same price, I would still say Gamepass offers a far better library and value.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
Yes but you are talking about markets with shitty internet connection and ( withe exception of France) with a limited gaming community. Even if it was released in every single European market the number would be, to be generous, 900k-1 million tops. It's still a rubbish number for a service like this.

Basically this 5 years served no purpose.

They have to work hard on the offer. Playing some PS4 games and loads of ps2 and ps3 games ( not even all the classics, but a bunch of random games)

Shitty Internet you don't know what you talk about, I am a french living in Barcelona and I have a 600 mbits fiber symmetric connection without data caps. In European Union Internet are very good and much better than in US. Even eastern part of European country when you live in big city...

Edit: My father is retired, he have a house in countryside in France where he lives during summer and he lives in a city in Madagascar during winter in Europe and he has a better connection with fiber in Madagascar in Africa...
 

Assenzio

Alt account
Banned
Mar 18, 2019
775
Shitty Internet you don't know what you talk about, I am a french living in Barcelona and I have a 600 mbits fiber symmetric connection without data caps. In European Union Internet are very good and much better than in US. Even eastern part of European country when you live in big city...
Fuck mate, you live in bloody Barcelona and think internet connection is a standard. There is a reason Now arrived late in some countries. Big cities always have good connections and I lived in France, Italy and Uk, the majority of this countries do not live in big cities.

Once again remember that your experience it's not everybody's experience and honestly we could not care less.

Go brag about your internet connection speed somewhere else
 

Premium

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
836
NC
I'm not sure why you are comparing these two since they are totally different things. PSNow offers an inferior way to play games you could just play on your console normally (possibly at a cheaper price even, if you buy from sales) at a fairly steep price in comparison to other streaming services (especially if you don't buy a year-long subscription but do it monthly) & has a very limited availability in terms of countries where you can subscribe to it. PSVR offers a whole new way to play games that you often can't play in any other way and it's available much more widely than just 19 countries (over 1/3rd of those were only added in the last month or so).

Streaming literally IS a new way to play? Access to a catalogue of games disconnected from dedicated hardware. The user pays a fee and streams to a non-gaming device.

The comparison was made due to barrier of entry (i.e. price) made by the previous poster about a niche product. VR is even more niche, with higher entry requirements and price, but has found over one million users in less than 50% of time on market.

It's a valid criticism. We don't have to hand-wave one away in order to prop up another. PSNow has been mediocre and only recently has Sony shown interest in it from a marketing standpoint.

The service is what Sony has put into it, which is reflected in user count and performance. Not good.
 

Deleted member 49804

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 21, 2018
1,868
You really think one of the biggest market research companies in the world was gonna buy SuperData if they were making numbers up?
Im not saying there are 100% accurate but they sure as hell aren't taking numbers of their asses.
No they don't. The numbers are just as bad as taking them from a random ass in a lot of cases.

They said PS Now generated $142 million between June and September 2018.
The actual total was somewhere between $15 and 30 million.
 
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chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
Fuck mate, you live in bloody Barcelona and think internet connection is a standard. There is a reason Now arrived late in some countries. Big cities always have good connections and I lived in France, Italy and Uk, the majority of this countries do not live in big cities.

Once again remember that your experience it's not everybody's experience and honestly we could not care less.

Go brag about your internet connection speed somewhere else

I lived in France, went to Italy and most of the population live in city read about demographic of this country and Western Europe.

The only place where you don't have fiber is countryside or it it is not the case when you are in a city it will arrive on the next 5 years for France for example. I lived in a bit In a not so big city Metz in eastern part of France and city was 100% fiber, you can take a flat in any place and it have fiber.
 
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Assenzio

Alt account
Banned
Mar 18, 2019
775
I lived in France, went to Italy and most of the population live in city read about demographic of this country and Western Europe.

The only place where you don't have fiber is countryside or it it is not the case when you are in a city it will arrive on the next 5 years for France for example. I lived in a bit so big city Metz in eastern part of France and city was 100% fiber, you can take a flat in any place and it have fiber.
Things are better now and will be better, but until 3 years ago France, Spain and Italy had an average of 7 mb.

There is a reason why now arrived there this year and not 5 years ago
 

N.Domixis

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,208
No they don't. The numbers are just as bad as taking them from a random ass in a lot of cases.

They said PS Now generated $142 million between June and September 2018.
The actual total was somewhere between $20 and 30 million.
SONy definitely needs to give out 1$deals to pad these numbers. ALSO throw some been indies on their.
 

Panic Freak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,583
Honestly, I think what it shows is Sony may be the only player with a realistic outlook about how soft the interest is in this kind of service. Google and Microsoft are seeing dollar signs, imagining hundreds of millions of people who never invested in any console system suddenly showing interest. Those people may not actually be out there.

Sony hasn't done anything to make the service as attractive as just buying a PS4 though.
 

JINX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,472
That is quite low, but they have started to really market and grow PSNow recently. So I assume it will grow a lot faster going forward.
As a PS Now subscriber, color me surprised, wonder how many subs GamePass has?, Less or More?
The only time we have heard about game pass was back at XO18, Spencer said they had millions of subscribers. So at minimum 2 million back in Dec, yesterday Nadella said game pass was "fast-growing" and subscription growth (alongside third-party title strength) was highlighted as driving gaming revenue in their Q3 results.


EDIT: People are still trying to take SuperData seriously? lol
 
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chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
Things are better now and will be better, but until 3 years ago France, Spain and Italy had an average of 7 mb.

There is a reason why now arrived there this year and not 5 years ago

It is not a question of availability but of people going with fiber many people keep DSL connection even when fiber connection are available because it is cheaper. There is a difference between fiber availability and people using it.
 

Assenzio

Alt account
Banned
Mar 18, 2019
775
It is not a question of availability but of people going with fiber many people keep DSL connection even when fiber connection are available because it is cheaper. There is a difference between fiber availability and people using it.
Fiber was available to 20% of the population 3 years ago in Europe.

Yeah right
 

TheRulingRing

Banned
Apr 6, 2018
5,713
Shocking performance. They are going to get steamrolled in the streaming space. Stadia will probably hit 700k worldwide within a weekend.

I know this news makes you happy, but you're getting excited and celebrating that a bit prematurely lol.

PS Now in its current state has barely had any effort and attention put into it by Sony.

If and when they decide to throw their full weight behind it (in the way that Microsoft has been doing for Game Pass) it'll no doubt be a major player.
 

Bunkles

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,663
Shocking performance. They are going to get steamrolled in the streaming space. Stadia will probably hit 700k worldwide within a weekend.

Maybe. But then Stadia numbers will most likely fall off a cliff when most of the people aren't able to stream properly or find out they don't like playing console games using virtual buttons on their phone. PS Now (or a version of it) will outlive Google's entire gaming initiative.
 

Cokesouls

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,350
The service has only been available in most countries for the last 2 years I believe
 

ty_hot

Banned
Dec 14, 2017
7,176
700k is decent. It's 5 years old but streaming was not a thing till recently. It's a complementary service to the Playstation Business, its better to sell 1 million PS4 than have 1 million users. PS4 owners buy games, pay for PS+, buy PS accessories and the console itself. Sony never needed PSNow to be a huge success, they only had it for futureproofing the platform, now that the competition finally has something they can step up their game (only recently they allowed the download of games in the service).

Let's see what else they are planning. I really hope they plan on expanding the service to mobile phones and tablets. Maybe a PS+ ans PSNow subscription together with discount.

They are not going to announce plenty of things though, I believe they need to keep stuff for when the PS5 releases.
 

Yurinka

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,457
- over 40% growth annually
PS Now was released in a few Sonyland countries like Spain last March 15th. I think a big portion of the growth may come from there. Considering the free week period, I'm pretty sure we'll see a notable growth this current quarter. They also need to release it in more countries, they are only in a few ones.

Google Stadia will surpass 700k subs easily lol stating anything to the contrary is just laughable.
It depends on the performance, the business model and the games.

PS Now already has a catalog with games like Uncharted series, Bloodborne, God of War series, Fumito Ueda games and so on. Google will need to do something to compete. Console only and PS exclusives won't be on Stadia, and depending on the Stadia business model devs won't support it. Players will want a ton of great games or won't pay for it. And if like many Google services is free with ads or something like that console devs won't support it and will only receive mobile F2P games.

That's very low.
Well at least we can stop using that image from superdata now lmao.
Why if it's true?

If and when they decide to throw their full weight behind it (in the way that Microsoft has been doing for Game Pass) it'll no doubt be a major player.
The gamepass idea of putting there day one new AAA games in a subscription platorm that costs you $1/month is a complete suicide. MS only does that as a desperate move because they have a very small market share when selling consoles and games so they are trying to get more players and see if they can get a good market share in some secondary market like that.

Sony doesn't need to do that move. They just announced that PS4 is the best selling console ever at its lifecycle point when launch aligned and that this fiscal year they sold more PS4 games than any other console in a fiscal year. Sony prints money selling their games at $60, which is a better business than to give away them from basically free while paying servers.

To have a game subscription platform with optional streaming with decent pricing for them is a good idea specially for old games that don't generate money anymore in the normal stores to avoid needing HDD space, install and update times. Specially if it's available on PC, phones and tablets too. But wifi and 4G are crap for streaming, so phones and tablets will have to wait until at least 5G (we'll see real world performance there, right now we only have theorical and limited tests 5G numbers).
 
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tolkir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,252
Wasn't it like 240 million $ a year or something? 700k users wouldn't generate that kind of income.

Edit: 143 million revenue in 3rd quarter 2018 for PS NOW, either those superdata numbers are extremely wrong, or my calculator is broken.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...brought-in-usd143-million-last-quarter-report

Superdata is wrong and this graph is Polygon-esque.

WCCFsuperdatasubscriptions.jpg
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,495
People are talking like it's a super low number with anything to compare lol

Gamepass is not a streaming service (and we don't have numbers), PS Now was only streaming (in 10 countries) untill some months ago.

Stadia will release in USA and Canada only afaik, and will also need a very high internet speed.
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,889
the Netherlands
They simply need to drastically improve the library of games, because it's simply not good at all. For starters they should put the older Sony releases games such as Uncharted 4 and the inFAMOUS games on the service.