Sony WWS are firing on all cylinders, but Corporate/Systems are asleep at the wheel

Wandu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,883
Thing is MS have made and showed big changes to address these issues, next gen they'll be in much stronger position first party wise, Sony on the other hand arnt communicating about their issues, their policy is silence. I could see how frustrating that would be for fans.
Sony really doesn't need to communicate the issues in the OP because those are subjective issues. Sony has always, since day 1, marketed PS4 as a gaming machine and still does today. It's not like they aren't doing anything at all about features.

As far as MS changes goes, those are promises that have been said for years and the common factor is that there is a "waiting" period or "wait" until next gen. The games issue should've been addressed a long time ago.
 

ghostcrew

Grabbed by the Ghosties
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
11,474
It is just because the os is really slow and takes 1 hour to install a game on Xbox one.

Ps4 is fast really fast since day one and take 2 minutes to install a game.

So no...
You're talking about discs. I'm aware of the difference in disc install times between the two consoles - I have both.

Like I said in my post, Fast Start is to do with game downloads. It's nothing to do with physical games.
 

DangerMouse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,326
Guy gets way too much shit just because he's not as polished a stage presence as some other figureheads. Give me Shawn over Andrew Wilson any day. As a consumer, I care about the games and his tenure has been extremely successful in that regard.

Threads like these really showcase how insulated this place can get when people try to extrapolate why any of these 'criticisms' actually matter beyond message board arguments. If you went by Era the past 3 weeks you'd think Sony (Nintendo gets the same type of absurd standards and expectations lobbed at it as well) was a smoldering pile of ash and not far and away the most successful company of the gen with big AAA titles to fill out the rest of this console cycle.
Agreed.

And for those that want the faces back then I think there's some jumping the gun as we'll probably see more of them again as we get closer to PS5, including Cerny. Shuhei is still there and Andrew House just was at his last PSX, so it's only been 6 months. Like you said, I think plenty of people actually like Layden as one of the faces outside of these threads (and just look at his long-term resume/history with PS, he's one of the reasons it continues to be so good), and Kodera has barely started so of course we don't know him in this role yet.

Shuhei is still there and is one of the most popular faces in the industry, and it wasn't even part of his job, and yet he was one of the best at it from the big three (except for maybe Miyamoto due to his huge legacy). He'll probably be more front and center worldwide again around PS5 and his first party teams have been killing it too.
And Gio's still there he just didn't get to do his usual great fanservice since they didn't really do their usual PSX last year.

Really the only big missing face is Adam Boyes for third parties, whose replacement unfortunately seemingly hasn't been front and center or I guess doesn't feel comfortable in the limelight like he did, at least not so far. Which is definitely unfortunate since Adam was clearly great at it.

House seemed to kind of pick up some of the slack with more appearances (and things like the Kojima announcements) as Adam left and Shuhei faded back a little. It's too soon to say that Kodera can't do the same even if he's got some big shoes to fill to at least match House's likability at events, regardless it's going to be what he does on the actual job that's more important.

I think some have just forgotten for some reason just because they haven't had Shuhei (or really anyone besides just Layden and Ryan) take the stage at any conferences recently.

btw, just a reminder, at Develop:Brighton 2018 there will be opening keynote with Shuhei Yoshida on Jul 10 https://www.developconference.com/whats-on/2018-speakers/speaker-detail/shuhei-yoshida

as for interviews and other things - if people miss Yoshida so much, then I would reccomend to watch SIE Japan Studio streams on YouTube more often :) For example:


... even more, he was a personal assistant to Akio Morita.
Cool. :)

We are in the last year and a half of the PS4's life cycle I don't really expect many big changes and Sony don't have to because PS4 is still selling like hot cakes. Also still find it hilarious that "Corporate Sony" don't care about gamers when we're still getting highly rated exclusives left and right. You can have as many talking heads as you want giving promises of the future but it doesn't matter if your competitors are churning out game after game. I can't believe people in this thread are clamoring for more PR guys.

I still stand by the fact that PS3 emulation is not very feasible on PS4 and Sony don't have the vast software expertise/backing that Microsoft have for something like that but I'm sure that they are building PS5 with backwards compatibility in mind. People are using the Epic account/Switch crossplay issue to make up all sorts of ridiculous claims about the state of Playstation when things seems to be going just fine for them.
Well said.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,114
i wonder what spurred this influx of threads like this recently, surely it can't just be crossplay. I feel like there's more of a willingness to revive the "arrogant sony" notion than evidence of said notion even being anywhere near accurate.
It's not just cross play, Sony has been very happy to take advantage of their market leader status this gen.

They didn't allow EA access on PS4, they didn't allow mods on PS4, they don't allow cross play with other consoles, they don't have any BC (the only Playstation not to have it), it doesn't have refunds, they still can't change PSN IDs, they've shut down studios without replacing them with new one's, They put out PSVR with very little support, they didn't want to spend the extra $20 to put a 4k blu ray in the Pro, there's a laundry list of things they could do better, many of these problems are not technical issues, its just them taking advantage of the fact that they're the market leader and they can get away with it.

But as the OP mentioned, the first party devs are just killing it lately so alot of people are willing to put up with it....like me.
 

Pabz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
354
And we will continue to see them lead the monthly charts in Console sales. People on these sites are the extreme, extreme minority. Is no cross play with Fortnite a great look... no, but it’s not really gonna hurt them.

Video games is a business. Sony to just go ok Xbox we’re doubling you in console sales, but you want to sell more Xbox’s so here is cross play with every game... It would make no sense for Sony business wise
 

gueras

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
746
User Banned (1 Week): History of system wars + accusing others of conspiring against PlayStation
It's not just cross play, Sony has been very happy to take advantage of their market leader status this gen.

They didn't allow EA access on PS4, they didn't allow mods on PS4, they don't allow cross play with other consoles, they don't have any BC (the only Playstation not to have it), it doesn't have refunds, they still can't change PSN IDs, they've shut down studios without replacing them with new one's, They put out PSVR with very little support, they didn't want to spend the extra $20 to put a 4k blu ray in the Pro, there's a laundry list of things they could do better, many of these problems are not technical issues, its just them taking advantage of the fact that they're the market leader and they can get away with it.

But as the OP mentioned, the first party devs are just killing it lately so alot of people are willing to put up with it....like me.
It not just games:

- they put the best console for the best price since day one
- they put the fastest os system since day one
- they putted share play
- they don't charge to play f2p games
- they have created a great movement about indie games in 2013
- they opened 2 new studios this gen(Manchester and the new one in San Diego)

What's is going on is after e3 people are everyday trying to create a narrative pro Ms.

And alienate people about Sony. Putting things that few people care against what is more important: games

Crossplay is so mediocre yet that doesn't make sense been so dramatic about that.

You can't even talk with people on crossplay. You don't know who is on the other side. Most of the games doesn't allow crossplay.
 

Kyser73

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,801
QLD, Australia
i wonder what spurred this influx of threads like this recently, surely it can't just be crossplay. I feel like there's more of a willingness to revive the "arrogant sony" notion than evidence of said notion even being anywhere near accurate.
It happened last year on Gaf after the Minecraft thing. It’ll probably be a thing every couple of months now until Sony announce the changes to Now & PSN mane changes later this year (and yes, I absolutely believe the latter is coming this year, probably be announced at PSX if there is one, or a beta announcement at Ganescom if there isn’t a PSX this year.
 
Dec 4, 2017
5,634
Brazil
We look at our financial results of the titles, and probably three or four out of ten make money, and maybe one or two make all the money to cover the cost of the others titles. So we have to be able to maintain that hit ratio at a certain level to be able to continue in the business, so we always try to find out and support and help grow the talent. That’s the most important work that I believe myself and some of my management team at worldwide studios are doing.
That is the difference between Sony and the rest.

I’d still call it coasting. For example nothing at this E3 was new and everything they showed we either knew about or saw last year or previous years. Yeah the gameplay reveals are cool, but most of this stuff has been in development since 2015, with Sucker Punch being MIA since Second Son and even worse Ready at Dawn being MIA since Golden Abyss. I know games take time but Jesus the turnaround has gotten ridiculous media Molecule has been MIA since Tearaway. And Dreams still has no release date and we’ve barely seen it. Naughty Dog has been the only one to actually push out some titles where as last gen each of these studios pushed out 2-3 titles.
Horizon took 6 years of devoplement, God of War 5 years. Can't complain when the wait is justified by the quality of the games.I think we get this feeling of less games being launched because last gen was too long.
(Sucker Punch did First Light (Stand alone DLC) too)

Can't compare the size of the teams and the re-use of assets.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,286
I swear you guys with this MS is so Pro Consumer and Sony is not. I swear with all these types of threads has to be a concerted effort of some type of marketing campaign. All over a piece of plastic that plays games.
It is and it isn't. The community thats carrying it out can only be guided towards it. They aren't paid to do it. They have to want to do it.
 

Weeaboom

Member
Jan 25, 2018
180
It not just games:

- they put the best console for the best price since day one
- they put the fastest os system since day one
- they putted share play
- they don't charge to play f2p games
- they have created a great movement about indie games in 2013
- they opened 2 new studios this gen(Manchester and the new one in San Diego)

What's is going on is after e3 people are everyday trying to create a narrative pro Ms.

And alienate people about Sony. Putting things that few people care against what is more important: games

Crossplay is so mediocre yet that doesn't make sense been so dramatic about that.

You can't even talk with people on crossplay. You don't know who is on the other side. Most of the games doesn't allow crossplay.

I'm inclined to agree with this. There seem to be a desperate crusade to shape the narrative of how Sony should be viewed and the anticonsumer sentiment seems to be a misnomer based on the consistent quality output and sales this gen. When we are talking about PR, I prefer the "put up, or shut up approach". The reality speaks for itself.
 

get2sammyb

Editor at Push Square
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Oct 27, 2017
1,598
UK
Threads like this really irritate me because they're so reductive. You completely hand-wave PSVR (the only company to experiment with this exciting new medium -- such arrogance), admitting you haven't even tried it, and find something to criticise about it because you want to justify your thread. Surely re-using the PS Move tech, as limited as it can be at times, is a pro-consumer move, as it keeps costs down and allows people who invested in the PS3 era to re-use their old stuff? I'm sure your thread would be complaining about PSVR "requiring" new £150 controllers if they'd gone the other direction.

The fact is you can spin anything if you try hard enough.

It's all perception. I appreciate that there's a bizarre desire among some gamers to paint Sony as the big bad guy at the moment (some of it fair, some of it less so), but arrogance isn't greenlighting great exclusives. Arrogance isn't providing the largest, most diverse catalogue of games across all genres and budgets. Arrogance isn't getting your shit in order from the offset and then having to spend several years course correcting so you look like a hero just because you announced you acquired a few new studios.

There are things to criticise and there always will be, I'm not denying that. It'll never, ever be perfect. But just because Sony's not flavour of the week (or doing things that you don't deem to be important) doesn't mean they're "asleep at the wheel" as you put it.

So unfair.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,114
I'm inclined to agree with this. There seem to be a desperate crusade to shape the narrative of how Sony should be viewed and the anticonsumer sentiment seems to be a misnomer based on the consistent quality output and sales this gen. When we are talking about PR, I prefer the "put up, or shut up approach". The reality speaks for itself.
Critiquing certain aspects of the PS4 is not a desperate crusade to shape a narrative.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,372
Inventive smaller games – These still come around now and then, but there aren’t nearly as many faux-indie games like we enjoyed in previous generations. Where are the weird games like Tokyo Jungle, Pain (hey, I enjoyed it for what it was), Noby Noby, etc.? I know that actual indies have come in to fill a lot of these gaps, but I really miss the weirdness from Sony’s smaller developers/partners.
They created a studio for those games.

Anyways, here’s some “inventive smaller games” they released:

-Concrete Genie
-Entwined
- Drawn to Death
-The Tommorow Children
-Fat Princess adventures
-Everybody’s Gone to the Rapture
-VR and Playlink stuff
 

get2sammyb

Editor at Push Square
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Oct 27, 2017
1,598
UK
They didn't allow EA access on PS4, they didn't allow mods on PS4, they don't allow cross play with other consoles, they don't have any BC (the only Playstation not to have it), it doesn't have refunds, they still can't change PSN IDs, they've shut down studios without replacing them with new one's, They put out PSVR with very little support, they didn't want to spend the extra $20 to put a 4k blu ray in the Pro, there's a laundry list of things they could do better, many of these problems are not technical issues, its just them taking advantage of the fact that they're the market leader and they can get away with it.
You can criticise these things if you like, but you can't just hand-wave the good. How the heck has PSVR had no support? Are they "sleeping at the wheel" because they invested in this exciting new space and provided their players with an opportunity for an all-new experience (irrespective of whether you like it or not)? Are they "sleeping at the wheel" for creating brand new franchises and characters that people love? Are they "sleeping at the wheel" for cultivating a diverse catalogue of games and experiences, suitable for all tastes, across a wide spectrum of budgets and genres?

There's nothing wrong with criticism; handwaving all the good and focusing solely on the bad because you're not getting the exact things you want from your console is unfair and, frankly, reductive.

They're not getting away with anything at all, as you put it. They're focusing on the things that they deem important to the majority of their fans and for the future of their business. And they must be doing a good job of it, otherwise their console wouldn't be popular at all.

Do you seriously thing they just sit on their hands doing nothing all day watching the money roll in? Or would you agree that the thousands of people that work at PlayStation, from developers to third-party relations specialists, are trying their best to create an ecosystem that people enjoy?

Maybe the answer is somewhere in the middle, but I don't believe for a single second there are people at Sony just throwing their hands around, watching kitten videos on YouTube instead of doing the very best they can.
 
OP
OP
5taquitos

5taquitos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,403
OR
Threads like this really irritate me because they're so reductive. You completely hand-wave PSVR (the only company to experiment with this exciting new medium -- such arrogance), admitting you haven't even tried it, and find something to criticise about it because you want to justify your thread. Surely re-using the PS Move tech, as limited as it can be at times, is a pro-consumer move, as it keeps costs down and allows people who invested in the PS3 era to re-use their old stuff? I'm sure your thread would be complaining about PSVR "requiring" new £150 controllers if they'd gone the other direction.

The fact is you can spin anything if you try hard enough.

It's all perception. I appreciate that there's a bizarre desire among some gamers to paint Sony as the big bad guy at the moment (some of it fair, some of it less so), but arrogance isn't greenlighting great exclusives. Arrogance isn't providing the largest, most diverse catalogue of games across all genres and budgets. Arrogance isn't getting your shit in order from the offset and then having to spend several years course correcting so you look like a hero just because you announced you acquired a few new studios.

There are things to criticise and there always will be, I'm not denying that. It'll never, ever be perfect. But just because Sony's not flavour of the week (or doing things that you don't deem to be important) doesn't mean they're "asleep at the wheel" as you put it.

So unfair.
So, I never once called Sony "arrogant" in my post, and I never mentioned the word "anti-consumer." Not sure what you're driving at, I don't have some sort of hidden agenda here. I'm certainly not trying to paint anyone as "the big bad guy."

Yes, my PSVR entry may have been ill-conceived, but I have a post a few pages back expanding on it.
 

Ogami Itto

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,612
Thing is MS have made and showed big changes to address these issues, next gen they'll be in much stronger position first party wise, Sony on the other hand arnt communicating about their issues, their policy is silence. I could see how frustrating that would be for fans.
Yeah, the company that has made countless promises and fulfilled none will be in a stronger position first party wise than the company that has the best first party studios in the world, what am I reading here? Lol.
 

Weeaboom

Member
Jan 25, 2018
180
Critiquing certain aspects of the PS4 is not a desperate crusade to shape a narrative.
When you don't even own the system, that leaves a lot of credibility to be questioned.

More importantly, Sony has arguably been the most "pro" consumer this generation, if not, then a majority of the consumers would not support them. Further, the notion that corporate has been "asleep at the wheel"... Apply the same logic its closest competitor... Again, who has been "putting up" this gen?
 

get2sammyb

Editor at Push Square
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Oct 27, 2017
1,598
UK
So, I never once called Sony "arrogant" in my post, and I never mentioned the word "anti-consumer." Not sure what you're driving at, I don't have some sort of hidden agenda here. I'm certainly not trying to paint anyone as "the big bad guy."

Yes, my PSVR entry may have been ill-conceived, but I have a post a few pages back expanding on it.
Fair enough, I apologise for mis-characterising you. I was speaking more in general to the sentiment that seems to be unfairly surrounding Sony after a perfectly adequate but perhaps unspectacular E3 2018.

You did, however, imply they're asleep at the wheel. Personally, I think if Sony's asleep at the wheel now, then I'm damn excited for when it wakes up. The PS4 is, in my opinion, one of the best overall systems Sony's done.

It's not perfect, I agree with you completely. Feel free to criticise the things you don't like, but let's get a little perspective. Not everything is always black and white. There are shades of grey.
 

Deleted member 32563

User requested account closure
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Nov 11, 2017
1,343
What about things like....

ICE and SN Systems?

Dedicated teams built to squeeze every bit of power from their consoles.

Nobody seems to mention mappable buttons for Ps4 which was a great feature. Remote Play and Share Play as well are underrated well executed features.

OS is not bad.

F2P does not require PS+ for many games.

Also what about the remasters for SoTC and Rachet...

Gravity Rush was a treasure!

Not to mention IMO ND Collection is an awesome package.

There are a lot of area's to improve like cross play and BC but although it may not be as open as MS it's not so bad.

Oh yeah and those games. Can't wait for Ghost of T.........(I can't spell it lol)!
 

TsuWave

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,145
It's not just cross play, Sony has been very happy to take advantage of their market leader status this gen.

They didn't allow EA access on PS4, they didn't allow mods on PS4, they don't allow cross play with other consoles, they don't have any BC (the only Playstation not to have it), it doesn't have refunds, they still can't change PSN IDs, they've shut down studios without replacing them with new one's, They put out PSVR with very little support, they didn't want to spend the extra $20 to put a 4k blu ray in the Pro, there's a laundry list of things they could do better, many of these problems are not technical issues, its just them taking advantage of the fact that they're the market leader and they can get away with it.

But as the OP mentioned, the first party devs are just killing it lately so alot of people are willing to put up with it....like me.
"what spurred this influx of threads recently". half of what you listed is age old stuff, not that that should give them a free pass to skip on whatever customers want, its just weird to see it rehashed so often recently. "they are market leader and can get away with it" also comes across more like agenda driven than an assessment based on substantial evidence.

BC was gonna be a hard task due to different architecture, i'm not the most savvy in these matters but i've been told such and seen it discussed in this very same forum. even so, the PS4 not having native BC is information available to potential customers. How you buy something and get mad it doesn't do something years down the line all because the competition started to do it? still, PS Now exists as some sort of weird way of bridging some of that gap, but from what i see on Era, people would want it to be free. Maybe they should offer a discounted version of the service for Plus subscribers (i don't know if they do already) because i don't think running the service or the infrastructure necessary for the service is cost free for them.

refunds aren't an universal thing, but based on your location, and the reps you speak to, you can certainly get refunds from sony. not ideal, and they certainly should improve in this regard.

i remember reports about there being technical limitations that prevented them from simply enabling PSN ID changes, but they did say they are working on it no? (time frame expected was within a year, and that was at PS experience in december last year)

studios get shut down all the time. it is a business. studios don't just stay open if they are not successful just so people don't use it as a bullet point in these weird gaming forum lists. and WWS in general and their first party offerings have been pretty good according to this thread...so like?

I dunno much about PSVR and its support, and the PRO not having a 4K blu ray player seems like non issues to me and easily avoidable for anyone else. don't buy them products if they do not meet your demands/specifications. how are people using the Pro not having a 4K player as potential evidence of "arrogant sony" or "sony is only doing this because they are market leader" thing? they went with choices that were certainly pondered against factors like cost, production, pricing, demand, availability etc

i dunno man.
 
OP
OP
5taquitos

5taquitos

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Oct 27, 2017
6,403
OR
Personally, I think if Sony's asleep at the wheel now, then I'm damn excited for when it wakes up. The PS4 is, in my opinion, one of the best overall systems Sony's done.
I feel the exact same way. All I'm trying to get across is that the system and generation started out strong, but the improvements have really petered out, at least from my perspective. I believe there's a lot that can be done to improve the already strong position they hold.
 

Saint-14

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
14,473
Thing is MS have made and showed big changes to address these issues, next gen they'll be in much stronger position first party wise, Sony on the other hand arnt communicating about their issues, their policy is silence. I could see how frustrating that would be for fans.
Sony doesn’t shoutout everything like MS is, they aren’t desperate for recognition, their history shows how strong they are.

Also, Microsoft’s problem was never the number of studios but their ability to produce quality and appealing games, nothing indicates that they have changed.
 

Apex88

Member
Jan 15, 2018
1,428
  1. Studio closures – I’m not a business expert, so I can’t say that the various studio closures over the years haven’t been warranted, but it’s rough as a gaming fan to see so many of their smaller studios get shuttered over less-than-stellar performance, especially for a company that always seemed to pride themselves on the freedoms they gave to their studios. 989, Studio Liverpool, Evolution, Zipper, Incognito, Guerilla Cambridge: RIP. (Yes, I’m aware that not all of these closures have been recent.)
The OP is stretching to create the ‘arrogant Sony’ narrative. But I’ll just pick up on this one.

Sony have opened three new studios (that we know of) in the last 18 months, including a new UK studio in the North West of England and one in San Diego. The latter is rumoured to be tasked with the continuation of the Uncharted franchise as it’s headed by an ex-ND lead.

Would Sony have ‘won’ E3 if they announced on stage these new studios and their projects? Personally I subscribe to the put-up or shut-up way of business. Don’t tell me what you aspire to do years down the line. Deliver the product and then I’m interested.

It reminds of, I think it was Kotaku, saying Sony should have made the PS Now download announcement part of their E3 presentation. No, E3 is about the games. Leave all this shit to the PS Blog or PSX.
 

ghostcrew

Grabbed by the Ghosties
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
11,474
I'm not, I think the PS4 is the best platform they've ever made, they're publishing the best games they've ever made, that doesn't mean we shouldn't point out mistakes. Playstation is literally my favorite company in the world.
This is a great post. It's always the same with criticism, especially when it's criticism of something with a strong fanbase. Don't be afraid to critique something you love. It never hurts to try to make it better (or, at the least, talk about how it could be better). I love Sony, I love PlayStation (I always say but the PS1 is my favourite console ever) and I love my PlayStation 4. I can agree with a lot of OPs criticisms though. It is what it is.
 

DeaDPooL_jlp

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,517
Thing is MS have made and showed big changes to address these issues, next gen they'll be in much stronger position first party wise, Sony on the other hand arnt communicating about their issues, their policy is silence. I could see how frustrating that would be for fans.
Owning both a Pro and a X, my only frustration is lack of games. I purchased both Sea of Thieves and State of Decay 2 at launch and all I can think about is what could've been. That's drastically different from what I've played of PlayStation offerings. I'll forever own both consoles cause every system has a drought every now and then and more options alleviate that problem but I'm not sure how you can conclude from the recent acquisitions that their 1st party will be much better.

It'll be better sure but that's not saying much given the current state of their 1st party division. Ninja theory and playground are the only two proven studios to have made big budget AAA games, the other are total unknowns. Sony's issues which are strictly policy side and not effecting them on a large scale can easily be rectified should they choose to. Building a successful 1st party umbrella of talent that can match PlayStation will take years, a ton of risk, and most of all success. There is zero guarantee that whatever these new projects may be will even be good or successful.

There's just simply too many variables to simply say Microsoft 1st party situation is resolved when we have zero proof of anything substantial.
 
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DeaDPooL_jlp

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,517
So, I never once called Sony "arrogant" in my post, and I never mentioned the word "anti-consumer." Not sure what you're driving at, I don't have some sort of hidden agenda here. I'm certainly not trying to paint anyone as "the big bad guy."

Yes, my PSVR entry may have been ill-conceived, but I have a post a few pages back expanding on it.
I think people may think you have an agenda when you mention you don't own a PS4 nor have played VR yet feel justified in critiquing them. It's fine and well within your right to do so, just hard to take you seriously. Even more so when you say they're asleep at the wheel which is baffling when you look at the last year alone, but to each their own.
 

ghostcrew

Grabbed by the Ghosties
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
11,474
I think people may think you have an agenda when you mention you don't own a PS4 nor have played VR yet feel justified in critiquing them. It's fine and well within your right to do so, just hard to take you seriously. Even more so when you say they're asleep at the wheel which is baffling when you look at the last year alone, but to each their own.
To be fair OP said that s/he did own a PS4, just hasn't owned one for the past year.
 

get2sammyb

Editor at Push Square
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Oct 27, 2017
1,598
UK
I'm basing this on talking with him for about a half hour last year, and then watching him mingle at Sony's post-event party before E3 this year: I think Shawn Layden knows how to do his job, but I also think he is ... playing up his gamer-facing side. He gets on the ground and talks to fans, he wears video game T-shirts, and he's not so disconnected that he's constantly putting his foot in his mouth.

But he reminds me a bit of Bill Gates talking about how his favorite game is Fuzion Frenzy. He likes the products he works on, but they are just products that he works on. I'm trying to avoid saying he's "not a 100% true gamer!" because I honestly don't think that is the problem. I just think that on the Don Mattrick meter, he scores pretty high. He's more of a Don than a Phil Spencer (not that he's perfect or anything). Layden listens to his internal advisers and doesn't worry about taking the temperature of consumers because they will come to PlayStation; PlayStation doesn't have to go to them.

I think Layden could probably turn all of this around if he felt the pressure, but I think he needs someone around him to make him feel the pressure of where the gaming market is going even when the company is on top.
Wait. Are you sure you interviewed the real Shawn Layden?

The 20 year PlayStation veteran who’s held a number of positions within the company, all around the globe, fulfilling various different roles?

The current chairman of Sony Worldwide Studios, the part of the business which even the overly niggly OP concedes is currently “on fire”?

The cold hard suit who arranged to release uber-niche Japanese titles like Vib-Ribbon in Europe during his tenure at PlayStation UK purely because he appreciated the unique artistic ambition of them?

That Shawn Layden? Well I’ve never met him so I certainly can’t argue, but I’m shocked to learn that this guy’s dedicated his entire career to working his way up the corporate ladder in a company he’s, according to the feeling you got during your 30 minute face-to-face, largely passionless about.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,888
UK
It is just because the os is really slow and takes 1 hour to install a game on Xbox one.

Ps4 is fast really fast since day one and take 2 minutes to install a game.

So no...
I own both. Sure PS4 is faster at disc installs but not to that extent.

It only takes an hour to install a XBO game if you choose to have it download all the updates as part of the installation process, and have a slow connection.

And as for PS4 always installing a disc in two minutes, nonsense. You might be able to start the game but then you'll likely be sat watching an installation screen. It took around 25+ minutes to install HZD if I remember correctly.

As for digital games, there's no difference. And FastStart is for digital games.
 
Oct 29, 2017
166
Business wise Sony doesn't really need to do anything. Right now they can just coast on their success and start work on the next PS. No matter what they do they know both Nintendo and Xbox can't catch up to them so they would rather just save the money.
 

get2sammyb

Editor at Push Square
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,598
UK
I feel the exact same way. All I'm trying to get across is that the system and generation started out strong, but the improvements have really petered out, at least from my perspective. I believe there's a lot that can be done to improve the already strong position they hold.
Fair enough, there’s nothing wrong with that. Perhaps you should have swapped the “asleep at the wheel” part with “I have some issues that I wished they’d divert more resources to improving”.
 

kc44135

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,085
Ohio
I don't care much about the other issues, but the lack of backwards compatibility on PS4 troubles me greatly. I just can't understand how so few on this site and elsewhere can't see it as an utterly essential feature. I've seen the "my PS2/PS3 still works, so I don't care" line so many times now... Yeah, that's really forward thinking of you, isn't it? Absolutely infuriating. Also, the "why should Sony copy Microsoft?" line is hilarious when the PS4 is the only PlayStation system to not offer BC of any kind. The history and achievements of this medium (not to mention people's vast digital libraries) don't mean jack shit, I guess.

Sony's attitude towards older games is the worst ("why would anyone play those games??? ") and absolutely disgusts me. Their support of older games on PS4 (no PS1 Classics at all, and both PS2 Classics and PS NOW are a complete joke) absolutely disgusts me. The attitude of utter indifference many have shown towards backwards compatibility really disturbs me. Since it is so unimportant, so unnecessary, and Microsoft's own efforts in the space so meaningless, enjoy not having any BC on the PS5, folks.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
1,096
Threads like this really irritate me because they're so reductive. You completely hand-wave PSVR (the only company to experiment with this exciting new medium -- such arrogance), admitting you haven't even tried it, and find something to criticise about it because you want to justify your thread. Surely re-using the PS Move tech, as limited as it can be at times, is a pro-consumer move, as it keeps costs down and allows people who invested in the PS3 era to re-use their old stuff? I'm sure your thread would be complaining about PSVR "requiring" new £150 controllers if they'd gone the other direction.

The fact is you can spin anything if you try hard enough.

It's all perception. I appreciate that there's a bizarre desire among some gamers to paint Sony as the big bad guy at the moment (some of it fair, some of it less so), but arrogance isn't greenlighting great exclusives. Arrogance isn't providing the largest, most diverse catalogue of games across all genres and budgets. Arrogance isn't getting your shit in order from the offset and then having to spend several years course correcting so you look like a hero just because you announced you acquired a few new studios.

There are things to criticise and there always will be, I'm not denying that. It'll never, ever be perfect. But just because Sony's not flavour of the week (or doing things that you don't deem to be important) doesn't mean they're "asleep at the wheel" as you put it.

So unfair.
This is pretty much how I feel, felt the OP was incredibly nitpicky with their points. Obviously not one of the things listed is perfect, and a lot of the points are valid though many are just small QoL stuff. Main point is it doesn't lead to the conclusion that Sony is operating asleep at the wheel.

Find it pretty funny how many people paint someone as a non gaming corporate executive when he's been working for Sony / Playstation since 1987 and is literally the guy who helps oversee all of the first party games that OP praises.

Dreams was apparently restarted twice, all of this okay'd by Layden how many times would it have been cancelled somewhere else.
 

Watership

Member
Oct 27, 2017
986
I don't understand how so many "don't care", about issues that any platform has, as long as you get "X" game or feature. You should all have interests in eliminating bad practices, improving systems, features, corporate responsibility and fostering a positive gaming conmunity.

That way, when they things you do care about go tits up, there are others fighting for that too.
 

lemonade

Member
May 8, 2018
1,561
Threads like this really irritate me because they're so reductive. You completely hand-wave PSVR (the only company to experiment with this exciting new medium -- such arrogance), admitting you haven't even tried it, and find something to criticise about it because you want to justify your thread. Surely re-using the PS Move tech, as limited as it can be at times, is a pro-consumer move, as it keeps costs down and allows people who invested in the PS3 era to re-use their old stuff? I'm sure your thread would be complaining about PSVR "requiring" new £150 controllers if they'd gone the other direction.
This. Very well said.

Ever since the cross play fiasco, people have been finding new ways to reach further and further to slam Sony.

Besides cross play and BC (which have plenty of threads dedicated to them), all the other points made in this thread are just trying to spin the argument towards Sony being trash. One can criticize Microsoft and Nintendo in these same areas.

I wouldn't be surprised that one day people will reach so hard and conclude that Sony's exclusives are overrated and actually bad.
 

HMD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,501
PSVR using the move tech is the best thing about it, It drives the costs way down. I can't wait until PSVR hits $150 and becomes mainstream.
 

Shmunter

Banned
May 28, 2018
377
I would love proper Library management. Show me driving games, show me couch coop games, my VR games, demos. I shouldn’t need to google these things.
 

hemo memo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,624
Alrest
They are on top. The direct competitor is doing everything right and still losing because of people brand loyalty and coming from the PS3 when they did it right at the end because they were losing. Microsoft were brave enough to admit mistake and change. Sony are on top and they are arrogant and no reason for them to improve the service really. Just look at the cross-play response from them. This is sadly For The Investors now. I don’t love Sony exclusives that much to to put up with everything else. I might change to Xbox next gen for the first time since I started gaming. Nintendo + Xbox for multiplatform games and hopefully new studios games surprise us and great to hear Microsoft push for gaming.
 

huH1678

Member
Oct 30, 2017
884
This. Very well said.

Ever since the cross play fiasco, people have been finding new ways to reach further and further to slam Sony.

Besides cross play and BC (which have plenty of threads dedicated to them), all the other points made in this thread are just trying to spin the argument towards Sony being trash. One can criticize Microsoft and Nintendo in these same areas.

I wouldn't be surprised that one day people will reach so hard and conclude that Sony's exclusives are overrated and actually bad.
There are already plenty of people who do on this very forum.
 

Occam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,510
The only thing that truly annoys me about PS4 is the lack of backwards compatibility for PS1 and PS2 games.
I never expected PS3 BC because that's simply not possible given the available processing power, but there is no technical reason not to have PS1 and 2. A toaster can run these games nowadays.
They better fix this for PS5. I have long since reached the point where I stopped rebuying ROMs of games I already own on previous consoles. Allow me to keep playing my existing library on new hardware.

The rest are complete non-issues for me. PSVR and PS Plus are excellent.
 

Deleted member 36086

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 13, 2017
897
I feel the exact same way. All I'm trying to get across is that the system and generation started out strong, but the improvements have really petered out, at least from my perspective. I believe there's a lot that can be done to improve the already strong position they hold.
You got some flawed perspective dude. Sony just released GOW and Detroit and Spiderman is coming out later this year. This gen is ending no later than 2020 and they still got 4 AAA games in the pipeline. That's coasting to you?
 
Nov 30, 2017
1,563
I included that language so that it would hopefully be obvious that this wasn't just another "anti-Sony" or "concern trolling" thread. I've loved all of my PlayStations, and if things lined up in life right now, I'd get another Pro in a heartbeat.
That's cool man. I've had one of "those" days where I probably shouldnt ne on the internet. I probably mistook the "tone" of it. My bad.

Although I did discuss the topics within.
 

Shmunter

Banned
May 28, 2018
377
I’m considering putting additional PS4’s in the house. I wonder if someone is kind enough to help me...

How do save games work across consoles? I do have ps+ and cloud saving is on. Does this work like Dropbox where each console I log into receives my latest save file? Then upon playing there, the updated save goes back into the cloud and pushed to the other consoles ready to resume progress on any of the ps4’s?