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Which game do you find holds the most replayability?

  • Demon's Souls

    Votes: 36 11.6%
  • Dark Souls

    Votes: 105 33.8%
  • Dark Souls II

    Votes: 44 14.1%
  • Dark Souls III

    Votes: 93 29.9%
  • Bloodborne

    Votes: 95 30.5%
  • Sekiro

    Votes: 17 5.5%

  • Total voters
    311

Strafer

The Flagpole is Wider
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,360
Sweden
go for the head.gif

He's bullshit, yeah.

Good luck. I don't recall my tactic, I think it was just hit-n-running with extreme patience

Thanks! He's so fast.

Don't know why From insists on having so many Dragon bosses in their games. :(

Also Midir got a lot of fucking HP so summoning is pointless because that adds even more.
 

gosublime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,429
I need tips for Midir, he's impossible.

Way for me was to stay close to his head. You can then work out his claw swipes and he always has periods after his claw swipes when he simply rests his head on the ground. Attack for a couple of hits, get out and reset. Soon as he flies away/zooms across the screen, run back to get him to use his claw swipes.

Worked for a pure melee build, but I also recommend not summoning - usually causes his AI to flip out and do lots of tail swipes.
 

gosublime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,429
Currently reading a review of the Game Exhibition at the V & A museum in London and this is what the review has to say about Bloodborne:

Bloodborne is a sword-and-sorcery adventure designed to provide a physical and strategic test. The plot is a load of gothic nonsense, but the joy of the game comes from the Everest-like challenge of its battles.

and

Bloodborne is all hand-eye co-ordination and no heart?

I think the reviewer might not have played it too much...
 

Noema

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,904
Mexico CIty
Thanks! He's so fast.

Don't know why From insists on having so many Dragon bosses in their games. :(

Also Midir got a lot of fucking HP so summoning is pointless because that adds even more.

Midir is arguably the hardest boss in DS3, maybe in the series (outside of the Defiled chalice bosses and maybe Sister Friede).

I read an interview with some From developers saying that they designed him as the true "final boss" to the series. There have been some dragon bosses in the other games but Midir feels like the one true real Dragon (like the Everlasting dragons in the prologue from DS1), because all the other dragons you fight (like Kalameet, the Guardian Dragon or the King of Storms) feel more like drakes to me and the Ancient Dragon
is not actually a dragon at all
.

Then again the series is not exactly consistent about what is a dragon and what isn't, but Midir is truly formidable as a send off to the series
 
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Strafer

The Flagpole is Wider
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,360
Sweden
Then you have people who beats him at SL1 with no hits. That just depresses me.

Nameless took me months to beat but damn if I wasnt happy when I finally beat, I fucking screamed.
 

Noema

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,904
Mexico CIty
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Nameless King is the coolest boss in the series. You walk into the arena, in the middle of the storm, the ominous bell tolling. And then he just flies in and lands in front of you.

peelesweating.gif
 
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ClearMetal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,276
the Netherlands
Yeah, Midir is tough. Not as tough as Friede for me, but very difficult nonetheless.

First tip, as with all huge bosses, is to not lock on. Second: stay in front of his head. Aside from his head being his weak point, it also limits his attacks to mostly claw swipes which are relatively slow and easy to dodge. Try to roll backwards or through the swipe, otherwise you might still get caught by its hitbox. Don't get underneath him, as he might take a few steps forward and tail swipe you, which means instant death most of the time.

He likes to relocate a lot. Make sure to have the Dragon Crest Shield equiped when he does his overhead firebreath attack; you could dodge it as well, but I felt it was an unnecessary gamble considering the DCS blocks almost all damage anyway. When he gets on the ground, simply chase after him and, again, stay in front of him.

He also has a grab attack when you're in melee distance. Watch out for him leaning backwards, as if he's charging his whole body. Roll to the side just before his head reaches you and you should be fine.

His lasers are deadly which is why you really want to stay close to him, because he tends to fire them when you're far away from him. They can be dodged fairly easily, however, although keep in mind they hit two times: the laser itself and the explosion afterwards. So you have to roll twice.
 
OP
OP
III-V

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Nameless King is the coolest boss in the series. You walk into the arena, in the middle of the storm, the ominous bell tolling. And then he just flies in and lands in front of you.

peelesweating.gif
Yes, and Dragons and 'human' form boss to boot. Fairly Epic.
 

Strafer

The Flagpole is Wider
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,360
Sweden
Yeah, Midir is tough. Not as tough as Friede for me, but very difficult nonetheless.

First tip, as with all huge bosses, is to not lock on. Second: stay in front of his head. Aside from his head being his weak point, it also limits his attacks to mostly claw swipes which are relatively slow and easy to dodge. Try to roll backwards or through the swipe, otherwise you might still get caught by its hitbox. Don't get underneath him, as he might take a few steps forward and tail swipe you, which means instant death most of the time.

He likes to relocate a lot. Make sure to have the Dragon Crest Shield equiped when he does his overhead firebreath attack; you could dodge it as well, but I felt it was an unnecessary gamble considering the DCS blocks almost all damage anyway. When he gets on the ground, simply chase after him and, again, stay in front of him.

He also has a grab attack when you're in melee distance. Watch out for him leaning backwards, as if he's charging his whole body. Roll to the side just before his head reaches you and you should be fine.

His lasers are deadly which is why you really want to stay close to him, because he tends to fire them when you're far away from him. They can be dodged fairly easily, however, although keep in mind they hit two times: the laser itself and the explosion afterwards. So you have to roll twice.

So I guess I should dump the Greatshield then?, I was using Havels to block his attacks.
 

Strafer

The Flagpole is Wider
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,360
Sweden
I killed him without a shield and most of my deaths were due to his overhead fire breath. If you stay in front of him so you can easily see what he's doing, and learn to react immediately when he flies up to breathe, you'll get him down.

Any particular weapon you recommend? I'm 40/40 in both so availability is there.
 

ClearMetal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,276
the Netherlands
I killed him without a shield and most of my deaths were due to his overhead fire breath.
Yeah, the only reason I even carry a shield in that fight is because of the overhead fire breaths. Everything else get rolled through.

Any particular weapon you recommend? I'm 40/40 in both so availability is there.
He's abyssal, so Farron Greatsword and Wolf Knight's Greatsword are good choices.

Other than that, I often feel it's best to stay with the weapon you're experienced with. The above weapons do extra damage, but it's not like they're easy mode. If you don't know how to use them, you will still get yourself killed a lot.
 

Noema

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,904
Mexico CIty
Yeah, I agree that it's best to stay with the weapon you're comfortable with.

You'll get him Strafer. It took me about a week for me to kill it, specially since it was pretty much the only thing I had left to do in the game so I'd try for a bit, then take a break, and try a bit more later.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,314
You know what really makes me appreciate how fucking well made these games are?

When I play a game that is not nearly as well designed and absolutely and completely fails to 'get' what makes From games so good. I'm gonna put it in spoiler tags because it's not a souls game and because I don't wanna clog up the thread and also I'm kinda drunk.

So I'm finally playing God of War© 2018 and I think I ...hate it?

In my hubris I originally set the game to Give me God of War Mode since I was all 'LOL I play From games, show me what you've got you AAA movie game. And of course, LOLWAT, I couldn't even get past the first bunch of enemies. The game did warn me, and I did not heed its warning. So fair enough; that's my bad.

All right then, I dial the difficulty down a notch, (Give me a Challenge), which I assume is the equivalent to 'Hard', and I always play these Movie Experience Games on hard since Normal tends to be too easy. Well, Give me a Challenge is plenty hard alright, but for all the wrong fucking reasons. I just spent an hour dealing with the second Revenant you fight along those heavy axe wielding enemies and it just sucked. It was bad, awful, frustrating, revolting. This is the worst way of making a game more difficult: make enemies HP sponges that kill you in two hits. The Revenants are particularly bad. Enemies with AoE poison that can teleport, which need to be stunned to be hit and which also take 50 hits to kill. I got past it after like my 30th try and I felt no satisfaction in doing so whatsoever, just intense annoyance. It makes me wonder if I'm doing something wrong. As in; I wonder if I'm missing some fundamental mechanic that makes this tolerable instead of kiting enemies and hitting them over and over while Atreus stuns them with arrows.

The pacing is terrible in this game. It consists in: combat encounter with a bunch of HP sponges that take forever to kill, light exploration / puzzle solving / Uncharted climbing, more enemies that take 100 hits to kill, rinse and repeat.

The game doesn't even look that good. Character models and lighting and volumetric fog and alll that jazz are great, but the design is so bland, repetitive, samey, linear; enemies in particular are just a mess. They look like Darksiders enemies. And even the trashiest of trash mobs take forever to kill. Imagine if Dark Souls was hard because the Hollows in the Undead Burg took 30 hits to kill each. That's what this game thinks is supposed to be hard.


I'm posting this here because I'm drunk and I don't want to write a 'Hot Take" about a game I've barely played, since I hate it when someone posts their Hot Take about, say, Bloodborne in Gaming and it's just a bunch of nonsense. So it's mostly just venting but also a bit of musing about what makes Dark Souls special (something I think about more than I probably should)

Sorry for the late-night rant. I know that this is not a Souls game I'm fuming about, but I can't help but think how From games truly nail game design , and how creating difficult games is indeed an art in itself, not just cranking up HP on enemies and spawning HP sponges behind you. I've always intuitively been against the idea of From games having difficulty settings and this is a great way of illustrating why: to make hard games work, you have to design the game around the difficulty, not the other way around. From makes it look easy.
I played GoW on Give me a Challenge and I really understand your frustrations, because I felt the same early on.

BUT, and this is important: it gets better. You start unlocking more combat options when you upgrade your axe, pommel, etc. And then you have more possibilities to do serious damage, with things like the charged R1 or R2, runic attacks, Atreus' bow, etc. instead of chipping away at trash mobs with weak-ass r1 attacks forever.

So, I say stick with it a bit more, get to the blacksmith and get some upgrades and see if you enjoy it more. I found the combat pretty decent, and some of the late game optional bosses are pretty epic. Though, it won't ever reach the highs of Souls games, that's for sure. And the level design is never as strong either. But for a western AAA game, it's solid. I do wish the beginning of it weren't such crap though. I don't know why so many western devs insist on those weak-ass starts.

I get you Noema, I haven't played GoW but I felt much the same way about Nioh. Souls just gives me something that I want that a lot of other games don't offer even if on the surface it looks like they would. It's still in my mind to go back and give it another crack though, maybe I just approached it wrong. Maybe after DQ11 :)
Nioh is amazing. If you're only chipping away pitifully in Nioh even in the first level, you're doing it wrong.

I need tips for Midir, he's impossible.
Oh boy my favourite thing, helping people beat Midir. :) (no joke)

Quick question: Have you fought Defiled Amygdala before? If so, fight Midir pretty much exactly like you'd fight Amy. Stay in front at all times, make sure you have room to maneuver, bait the head slam and punish that without being greedy... repeat until dead.

If not... here's how I beat him, twice, using the same method on two different characters and using only 4 estus (I'm no pro, just an ordinary player who makes mistakes) both times:



Midir is arguably the hardest boss in DS3
Nah. Once you get his pattern Midir isn't bad. Sister Friede is infinitely harder, as is Gael.

First tip, as with all huge bosses, is to not lock on.
This is wrong. Lock on is still very useful in that fight. You just need a healthy mix of both lock and no-lock.
 

Premium Ghoul

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,359
Australia
I was proud to beat Midir without changing my strength/faith build at all. That boss caused a friend of mine to completely respec into full Dex and use a katana, which is something he didn't have to do for any other boss or part of the game.
diemidir_by_realghostvids-dcmyhb0.jpg


Patience is key.
 

Red Liquorice

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,066
UK
Nioh is amazing. If you're only chipping away pitifully in Nioh even in the first level, you're doing it wrong.
I made it past the first boss (not the tutorial level) and well into the cave area of the next part - I just wasn't really enjoying the combat tbh, it felt very repetitive and like a slog to me. Like I said I am willing to give it another try some day, I haven't totally given up on it, I may just need to try different weapons or something - I was using tonfu and axe.
 

Noema

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,904
Mexico CIty
So speaking of Nioh, as a Souls fan, what is the general consensus? It's on sale right now and I've been meaning to try it. I need something to scratch the itch until Sekiro but I've heard level design isn't that great? Is it worth it to pick the complete edition version of the game?
 
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Swiggins

was promised a tag
Member
Apr 10, 2018
11,446
So speaking of Nioh, as a Souls fan, what is the general consensus? It's on sale right now and I've been meaning to try it. I need something to scratch the itch until Sekiro but I've heard level design isn't that great? Is it worth it to pick the complete edition version of the game?
It's definitely a different beast, a lot more emphasis is put into combos, almost like a mix between a Souls game and a fighting game. Furthermore, while there are dozens of different weapons they all fall into roughly 8 or 9 categories of movesets. (All Katana's play the same, all Spears play the same, etc). Magic in the game is handled sort of similar to the souls series and on launch it was absolute cheese, cant say if it still is or not (the right combination of buffs and debuffs can turn the most difficult boss fights in the game into absolutely trivial affairs).

Loot is dropped near constantly and there's really no reason to not constantly be putting better gear on (There's thankfully a Transmog System so if Fashion Souls is your thing you can get pimped out regardless of what kind of armor you're wearing)

I'd say it's worth playing if you're a fan of the series, I hear a lot of people say it's more like Onimusha than Souls, but I disagree. The game was very clearly designed to ape the souls games in a number of areas, and for the most part it's to the game's benefit.

I never played the DLC so I can't speak to whether or not the complete edition is a good idea, seems like it's got good value though.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,314
So speaking of Nioh, as a Souls fan, what is the general consensus? It's on sale right now and I've been meaning to try it. I need something to scratch the itch until Sekiro but I've heard level design isn't that great? Is it worth it to pick the complete edition version of the game?
Hell yes. It was my GOTY 2017. I wrote about it here: https://www.resetera.com/posts/3478789/
 

gosublime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,429
So happy - just got the Dark Souls II Design Works for a reasonable price - £30. It always seems to be out of print or stupidly expensive and I've been missing it from my collection.
 

Noema

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,904
Mexico CIty
It's definitely a different beast, a lot more emphasis is put into combos, almost like a mix between a Souls game and a fighting game.

Hell yes. It was my GOTY 2017. I wrote about it here: https://www.resetera.com/posts/3478789/

giphy.gif


Ok. You guys sold me on the game. It's already on my download Queue so it'll be ready and waiting when I get home later today.

UPDATE: Played for about two hours. My initial impressions

dumb-and-dumber-jim-carrey-lloyd-christmas-ilike-it-alot-like-gif-3923779.gif


I feel like a horrible person for using the 30fps mode when a 60fps mode is available but, darn, it's so ugly on base PS4.
 
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xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
Picked up DS3 Complete for PC. I had the base game on PS4, and since the Season Pass has basically sat at $20-25 nonstop, being able to scoop the whole thing for PC for $25 when I have DS1 and DS2 on PC seemed reasonable.

And god damn does the game play great on PC. DS3 at 60 FPS is amazing. I don't know that I could ever go pick to playing it on PS4 at this point...
 

The Living Tribunal

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,201
33 human effigies later, I can say taking down Darklurker with a purely melee build on NG+ is the second hardest boss fight i have ever cleared in a game only behind Midir, and by far the most bullshit one.
 

gosublime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,429
Was in Seville and Cadiz for a wedding this weekend and saw this in one of the Hotels I was staying in (Hotel Murillo in Seville). Apologies for the poor quality, but when I saw it I instantly thought of the Ruin Sentinels!

dsc_00738peql.jpg
 

ike_

Member
Oct 27, 2017
86
That's cool. My first thought was Loyce Knight but yeah it looks a lot more like a Sentinel.
 
OP
OP
III-V

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
That is real? Whose neck is this long. Awesome find, and certainly inspirations for sentinels.
 

gosublime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,429
Some parts of the cathedral reminded me of Anor Londo as well, with the classic buttress style architecture. I didn't see any other armour sets like it so I'm hoping that I either stayed in the same hotel as somebody on the DS 2 team or that they went on a tour that included my hotel - there was a tour being shown round as I left!
 

Wimps

Member
Oct 27, 2017
467
Playing through dark souls 3 now. Got a strength focused build and I'm wrecking everything. Abyss Watchers down in two tries and no sign of stopping yet. Fuck me this game is soooo GOOD.

I had a lot more trouble with BB. That game kind of wrecked me in the end. Especially the DLC.
 

Noema

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,904
Mexico CIty
Playing through dark souls 3 now. Got a strength focused build and I'm wrecking everything. Abyss Watchers down in two tries and no sign of stopping yet. Fuck me this game is soooo GOOD.

I had a lot more trouble with BB. That game kind of wrecked me in the end. Especially the DLC.

It's interesting. I feel DS3 is considerably harder than BB (outside of the Defiled Chalice bosses). Some of the late-game DS3 bosses and specially the DLC bosses are brutal.
 

Noema

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,904
Mexico CIty
i'm still in the early game, aren't i?

If you just killed Abyss Watchers I'd reckon you're about 1/3 of the game through, depending on how much time you spend on optional areas and bosses.

Also make sure to get the DLC if you don't have it already. It's really good, specially Ringed City. Some of the best bosses in the series.
 

Wimps

Member
Oct 27, 2017
467
If you just killed Abyss Watchers I'd reckon you're about 1/3 of the game through, depending on how much time you spend on optional areas and bosses.

Also make sure to get the DLC if you don't have it already. It's really good, specially Ringed City. Some of the best bosses in the series.
Yeah got both of them. Cheers man, thanks.
 

Valkerion

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,229
Just sat down and finally finished Dark Souls 3, did it guys, franchise completed. Even better is I waited til last year to do Bloodborne and now to do Dark Souls, with essentially 0 spoilers on the areas, bosses, weapons, or story bits which made it 100000000% better. Already sang BB's praises when I beat that... might still be my game of the generation at this rate.

But holy... shit. DS3....

I got a whole slew of issues with it, but it was near perfect as well. Where BB has a pretty big hump to get over when you first play it, DS3 feels like the hump just gets bigger and bigger imo. Took me forever to get through the first area and it felt super unfair in most spots. Still feel the game is a touch too hard, but its easily my favorite of the Dark games.

Wanna do a bigger write up and get my thoughts about it but geezus. Ugh and the story... This happens with every souls game where my mind is just racing about what I just went through but this is the end of a series so its up with with BB levels of mind boggling. Was sooo good.
 

Noema

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,904
Mexico CIty
Going blind into these games is the best way to do it. I drown myself in lore and wikis after I finish them, but the surprises for the first playthrough are always amazing. There's nothing like it in gaming.

I think DS3 is just superb. It's a culmination of all the concepts originally introduced in Demon's Souls; 4 games later and a console generation removed, it's clear how the team grew in experience, confidence, knowledge to craft a masterful sendoff to the series. It's an incredibly polished, rounded and exquisite experience. I also finished it this year and I still constantly think about it.

The level design in DS3 is simply unparalleled. I'd say it's even better than BB, maybe with the exception of Central Yharnam which might be my favorite location in any game ever. Places like the Cathedral of Blue, Lothric Castle, the Grand Archives, Lothric Castle Walls and the Ringed City show that From really knows their stuff: they know what they are doing and they know that they know. It's bold, inventive, inspired, beautiful and grotesque at the same time. It's truly a delight to explore those levels and get lost in them. And the game just looks so good. It's stunning to behold. It's not the most advanced game from a technical perspective but every square inch of that world is crammed with detail and grit and atmosphere.

It also has the best bosses in the series by far. Really hard fucking bosses by the way, specially the optional ones and the DLC ones, but every single them is uniquely challenging and epic in their own way. I get chills when I think of the music from the Nameless king or Sister Friede fights. It's kind of hard going back to DS1 with its simplistic, clunky bosses. Ah, the quaint days in which I thought O&S and Artorias were hard.

chef-kiss-gif.gif


But then there's the thing about DS3 that, IMO, keeps it from being the best Dark Souls game and it's just how frustratingly and painfully linear it is. It's heartbreaking and it kinda made me dislike the game at the beginning. Of course the rest of the game is so good that it can overcome that defect, but what a defect it is. I still feel that DS1 open-endedness is one of the greatest gifts to gaming there exists and it's a tragedy that DS3 is basically a linear set of levels with a couple of extra optional areas thrown in here and there. Sure, you can kill the dancer early and mix things up a bit, but that is kinda unrealistic in NG for most people .Even DS2 gives you more options at the beginning. In DS1 you arrive to Lordran and there's like 8 bosses that you can kill.

I guess that my ranking of From would be something like this:

DS1 > BB > DS3 >>>>> DS2>>>>>>>>>>>>>All the other videogames

I haven't played Demon's and probably won't for a while until Sony decides it's worthy of not being forever confined to exist on obsolete 2006 hardware.
 
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Valkerion

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,229
I really liked the more linear nature of 3 personally. Then again, I have a pretty big dislike of open world games overall (though loved me some spiderman, mostly cause the story.) But I can definitely understand that people like the nature of the series letting you tackle a lot of areas at your own pace.

Like you said though, that level design was just on point throughout. There were some confusing areas and what not like they all have, but I was only really overwhelmed at the start honestly. And like all series, it turns out to not be quite as crazy as it seems. I enjoyed its kinda... guided trek to the end however, felt fitting for how it turns out and where it takes you as a player.

And holy crap I'm still squeegeeing my brain off the wall. I was not expecting to go to the places that the game takes you, same with the DLC, hell especially the DLC.

But I think why 3 might be my favorite, maybe its just the high of finishing it, is the monster design. I monster/enemy 'design is a big draw for me in gaming and aside from Resident Evil, Souls is probably right in my top 3. As a franchise it just got better each iteration with 3 honestly trumping a lot of them. BB was the most compelling just in terms of setting, but I loved the variation and creativity on display in this one too.

My order for the franchise would be.

BB > Demon's > DS3 >DS1 > DS2

though I need to replay 2 at some point, I only beat it once when it first dropped not after all the changes.