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South Park mocks trans athlete with a transphobic episode

NeuroCloud

Member
Jun 10, 2019
68
I’m sorry but you’re being naive as hell. People on this very forum get shown facts and are given opinions by people of oppressed groups and still respond with BS

South Park is not the first place to present such topics. Period. Especially when they have a history of their work being problematic and needing constant well actually nuance defense from people

And folks in this very thread are explaining WHY they’re approach is bad and you’re dismissing it. You’re proving your own theory fucking wrong.
Presenting facts and evidence isn’t always effective for changing minds in a percentage of the population

It doesn’t work because some people get defensive once they realise you don’t approve of their thoughts.

Could you suggest an alternative, more effective method for disarming and inviting people to improve their stance on sensitive topics?
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
11,762
a sunken pirate ship
What is the most effective way to invite a transphobe to re-think their uneducated views?
I think part of the reason people are frustrated is that this is less important than transphobes not being bigots in public by any means. Everyone wants the bigots to have their come-to-jesus moment, but that often doesn't happen, and that's between the bigots and god anyway; in the meantime what matters is them not pulling bigoted shit!
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,216
The point again is ignored because being outraged is just so fun.

I'm expecting I may get banned for it (again). I was considering posting examples of comedians 'crossing the line' with gender or race issues but it's pointless. Conversation here is impossible.
I will never understand people who triple down on their bullshit when they've already BEEN BANNED TWICE for it...
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,784
Presenting facts and evidence isn’t always effective for changing minds in a percentage of the population

It doesn’t work because some people get defensive once they realise you don’t approve of their thoughts.

Could you suggest an alternative, more effective method for disarming and inviting people to improve their stance on sensitive topics?
the most effective way is to just shut the fuck up and listen to those who are explaining the problem and not respond with “well actually if we science this up”. Just LISTEN
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,784
Person 1: Please help me understand why this is bad?

Person 2: Lists out reasons and points to problematic situations in life

Person 1: Well wait actually what about ....


Every god damn time. Y’all continue to say “what can we do” and every time the answer is to listen and hear what has to be said. And yet every time those same people don’t do that very basic thing.

I’ve learned a tremendous amount by just listening and showing empathy. It’s not that hard
 

NeuroCloud

Member
Jun 10, 2019
68
I think part of the reason people are frustrated is that this is less important than transphobes not being bigots in public by any means. Everyone wants the bigots to have their come-to-jesus moment, but that often doesn't happen, and that's between the bigots and god anyway; in the meantime what matters is them not pulling bigoted shit!
Exactly my point.

A problem exists. The above solutions essentially ignore this problem.

Fundamentally, is it better to ignore important problems or chip away at solving them?

Could you suggest a more effective way to change the minds of bigots?

the most effective way is to just shut the fuck up and listen to those who are explaining the problem and not respond with “well actually if we science this up”. Just LISTEN
On sensitive topics, some people become defensive and stop listening.

Could you suggest a more effective method for changing the minds of those people?

Disaengaging or judging them isn’t the answer.
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
6,594
I vaguley remember the South Park episode about the word "r*tard" and how the Principal character has an issue with the disabled kid being fine with using it.

Thing is though, it isn't actually a disabled kid being fine with it. It's Matt and Trey voicing a mocking caricature of a disabled kid being fine with it.

In general they sometimes they hit the mark with something but that's undermined by how they're so willing to make and push conservative and far right wing talking points. Characters who are wrong are the most blatant strawmen.

They have the morally rightous characters outright call for an open dialogue as the right way to go about everything and that makes all the offensive jokes okay, but yet the only ideas pushed as the correct one is complete disinterest and taking the middle ground on everything.
 
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timedesk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,656
The bottom of it simply is that there are a bunch of people who claim that they care about transpeople but are uncomfortable/straight up opposed to actually doing the work of listening and learning from those people. They have to de-legitimize the anger that comes from marginalized communities to remain comfortable and avoid recognizing how little they do in regards to moving the needle forward. If they were able to internalize how fundamentally warped the world is from the perspective of the disenfranchised then they wouldn't so eagerly leap to the defense of the problematic media they enjoy while putting down its detractors as loons who get off on being "outraged all the time". Being an honest to goodness ally of the marginalized truly takes work and self-reflection and many are just way too lazy for that and instead oppose and bury any opportunity to do so. If you make people's concerns about the perpetuation of their oppression trivial, silly, & just outrageous you never have to grow.
This all makes sense. What gets under my skin, especially with this example. Every time a show or a game or a movie does something either transphobic or misogynistic, or racist, it is always the same garbage defense. People are being oversensitive, it's just one piece of media, authorial intent trumps human decency. It always feels rooted in this concept that entertainment doesn't matter, and doesn't impact the culture, a concept that is ludicrously false.

I get that people don't like to feel judged for their escapism an entertainment. But, people who criticize shows like South Park for their bad takes are not saying that every person who watches it is bad. People who refuse to listen, people who put their fingers in their ears and insult honest critiques are bad. Hell, if people honestly loved South Park and thought it was a force for good, wouldn't they want to help call out the show when it makes a mistake? Instead victims and allies are just supposed to ignore harmful representation, ignore insulting and degrading stereotypes. It's a garbage position, and one that is just very depressingly common.
 

Doomsayer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,515
Exactly my point.

A problem exists. The above solutions essentially ignore this problem.

Fundamentally, is it better to ignore important problems or chip away at solving them?

Could you suggest a more effective way to change the minds of bigots?


On sensitive topics, some people become defensive and stop listening.

Could you suggest a more effective method for changing the minds of those people?

Disaengaging or judging them isn’t the answer.
Most bigots don't want their mind changed. Most bigots don't care about facts or arguments or "feelings" as they like to call them. They just want to be hateful pieces of shit. You aren't going to change their mind, they don't want their mind changed. In their head YOU are the problem and you need to change.

That is the real issue.

The issue people have with this episode is that, sure, there are things that sensitive subjects need to be talked about but the particular vehicle they chose to use was a bad one. They are giving credence to a bullshit argument that bigots use about transitioning for unfair advantages. The episode wasn't exactly about that, BUT, the real message is lost because it was a really bad attempt about having a nuanced take.
 

Snowy

Member
Nov 11, 2017
1,131
Good to know you care more about bigots than the people they're hurting
This is a disingenuous framing. I care first and foremost about people harmed by hegemony, but changing people’s minds IS an important part of fomenting change, as well as a moral imperative, if we accept the premise that hatred and bigotry is actually bad for people and is something of a public mental wellness crisis. It’s not incumbent on anyone, especially the marginalized, to actually engage in this process, but caring about it is not a sign of lack of consideration for the people affected by that bigotry.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
11,762
a sunken pirate ship
A problem exists. The above solutions essentially ignore this problem.
The thing is, this problem -- the shaping of hearts and minds of people that we'll, charitably, say are not engaged in the issue -- can only be dealt with in the long-term. For most of the people harmed by transphobic stereotypes, that kind of time doesn't exist.

I do believe that it is a legitimate problem that must be dealt with, but I think the history of transgender issues on South Park contextualizes peoples' response here. When the long-term history of the show's approach to this content is what it is, people don't expect better, even though they need it. Beyond that, this specific episode is not a particularly great way of engaging with the issue, as, again, it has nothing to do with transgender people at all (hence Icemonk191's response)
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,784
Exactly my point.

A problem exists. The above solutions essentially ignore this problem.

Fundamentally, is it better to ignore important problems or chip away at solving them?

Could you suggest a more effective way to change the minds of bigots?



On sensitive topics, some people become defensive and stop listening.

Could you suggest a more effective method for changing the minds of those people?

Disaengaging or judging them isn’t the answer.
If they become defensive and refuse to listen then they don’t actually care to change. It’s not the responsibility of the community being attacke to bend over backwards to appeal to bigoted individuals who refuse to accept them. This commentary is always made “well what can we do to appeal to them”. At some point that becomes exhausting to hear and I can’t even begin to imagine what it’s like for folks in those communities
 

Richiek

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,129
Most bigots don't want their mind changed. Most bigots don't care about facts or arguments or "feelings" as they like to call them. They just want to be hateful pieces of shit. You aren't going to change their mind, they don't want their mind changed. In their head YOU are the problem and you need to change.

That is the real issue.
Yeah, it's the same misguided philosophy that "economic anxiety" is what caused people to vote for Trump and we need to "reach out across the aisle" and accomodate their needs. Fuck that noise.
 

FeistyBoots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,341
Southern California

GlitchyDegree

The Fallen
Dec 4, 2017
865
Sad to see how many people are defending the episode. South Park is one of the only shows I like enough to watch on a weekly basis but Board Girls was a awful episode that did nothing but punch down at people that get enough shit as is. Seriously if you are a fan of the show you should want it to do better.
 

Typhonsentra

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,066
Sad to see how many people are defending the episode. South Park is one of the only shows I like enough to watch on a weekly basis but Board Girls was a awful episode that did nothing but punch down at people that get enough shit as is. Seriously if you are a fan of the show you should want it to do better.
It is similar to Chapelle in that people are naturally going to see criticism of entertainment they like as a personal attack on them. I usually see it as a losing battle, but South Park really does have a bad history on enabling bad actors attacking trans people.

"Stunning and brave" has been used to attack trans people online for years. Whether Matt and Trey are cognizant of the damage and hurt they've caused, they have poisoned public discourse in America for decades whether it is this topic, caping for warmongers in the lead-up to the War on Terror, climate change, etc.
 

Mildudon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20
User Banned (permanent): dismissing transphobia, account in junior phase
So South Park again takes something from a news report and makes an episode out of it. I am shocked, i am shocked, well not that shocked. News at 11:00
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,716
So I just saw this.

This is bad, like I don't see why people are trying to argue with transgender people like they shouldn't be offended. This is bad, but hey the same thing happened when people complained about the blackface fish in the south park game. There are so many other long running adult comedy cartoons that seem to due to corporate pressure or changes in staff get their act together. Not completely right, the simpsons recently threw a shitty tantrum over apu. But like south park in particular is stagnant. Its like the eminem of cartoons, just something that never completely grew up. And you can look at it in parts and see " Oh if they like grew up a bit and focused on that other part they could evovle and make a better product " but doing so, is seen as cowardice, as sort of selling out ( despite eminem and south park both selling out hella hard and effectively being THE establishment at this point ) because their brand is anti establishment. Anti normality I guess? But they have become in many ways the status quo , so they just kinda wade in a sea of mediocrity. With ample opportunity to pull themselves out and maybe do something better, but choose to stay because its weak or something.

The world has evovled beyond south park and instead of looking around it continues to just be angry at the premise.

Insert joke here about erik cartman rapping about the floorboards

This is bad. This is not arguable. Its bad.
 

keku

Member
Apr 23, 2019
58
User Warned: Cisplaining
I might be wrong here but I did not see this episode as transphobe. Hear me out, I believe that it sheds a critic light on something on people exploiting gray areas. The current understanding and laws apply to the old binary form of sexual identification and shoehorns them into this ancient paradigm that we have.

We have the boys, excluding the girls at something cause they feel they are being intruded and outclassed.

I feel it conveys two sides of a coin. How inclusion can be beneficial and the struggles we have today to come to it, but the discussions we need to have that are unconformable.

Granted, I don't believe that the trans athlete messaged was conveyed in the best way, still I the message I got is not against trans athletes but the way we try to shoehorn progress into today's paradigm which can result in an imbalance. Eventually I think these things need to be discussed to reach a true level of fairness and acceptance of everyone.

I believe it's a mistake not to celebrate the wonderful diversity trans people bring to human society, and try to mold them into a binary paradigm when in reality I don't think much of the world fits to it. We as a society as we accept and include more, need to treat the shades of gray people have.
 

A.By

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,504
I might be wrong here but I did not see this episode as transphobe. Hear me out, I believe that it sheds a critic light on something on people exploiting gray areas. The current understanding and laws apply to the old binary form of sexual identification and shoehorns them into this ancient paradigm that we have.

We have the boys, excluding the girls at something cause they feel they are being intruded and outclassed.

I feel it conveys two sides of a coin. How inclusion can be beneficial and the struggles we have today to come to it, but the discussions we need to have that are unconformable.

Granted, I don't believe that the trans athlete messaged was conveyed in the best way, still I the message I got is not against trans athletes but the way we try to shoehorn progress into today's paradigm which can result in an imbalance. Eventually I think these things need to be discussed to reach a true level of fairness and acceptance of everyone.

I believe it's a mistake not to celebrate the wonderful diversity trans people bring to human society, and try to mold them into a binary paradigm when in reality I don't think much of the world fits to it. We as a society as we accept and include more, need to treat the shades of gray people have.
You might be wrong there

Maybe if this was an episode made by people who are otherwise good on trans issues, you'd have something of an argument. But this argument doesn't work for past transphobic episodes at all.
 

floridaguy954

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,590
This is more or less where I'm at with South Park. They are doing better overall, but not clearly enough and not often enough to really change the minds that cancelled South Park years ago. Between the occasional bad/awful take 5% of the time and the muddled messages 40% of the time, I completely get why people don't want to give them the time of the day the other 55% of the time where they're actually doing pretty good.
I also at this point with South Park.

It sucks that Matt and Trey can't commit to making all of their episodes better but unfortunately it's par for the course with this show.
 

keku

Member
Apr 23, 2019
58
Well I might be analyzing on a vacuum here to be honest. I love South Park so I'm a little biased and could be interpreting to justify them.

EDIT: Also curious, what other episodes would you label transphobic?
 

Ogodei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,693
Coruscant
AFAIK it was entirely directed at her shittiness and how it was ignored when she came out.

This is absolutely correct and could conceivably used to defend the concept of the Mrs. Garrison arc (though it's not funny at all) since Garrison has always been the second biggest piece of shit in the show. The difference with this new episode is that the bad actor they've seemingly concocted lines up with the same "men are infiltrating" bullshit that are used to actually hurt trans folk IRL. It's not recreating our current society, it's reinforcing it.
That's the big issue, setting aside that the first episode of the Ms. Garrison arc ran with the "Identify as an attack helicopter" line unironically, it was later shown that Garrison was really just a gay man in deep denial who transitioned out of an effort to flee from that truth, but it goes back to the same problem with Heather in this episode, they only portray "bad" trans people, and never portray good ones (with the other example being the hideous appearance they give to Caitlyn Jenner, who is categorically not a good person but doesn't make her an acceptable target for Transphobia, just like you wouldn't get a pass for being racist against a PoS like Candace Owens).
 

Lundren

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,740
I might be wrong here but I did not see this episode as transphobe.
You are wrong.

This episode takes a popular right wing talking point that has been proven wrong many times, then it pretends like there aren't already stipulations in place for trans athletes to compete. It then presents this as though it were an actual problem that we need to see through a new lens in order to find a solution.

This is all shit because it was built on a foundation of bigotry and dogwhistles. The very premise of the episode is transphobic, so them fucking up the details is only the cherry on top of the shit pie. It would have been transphobic even if they hadn't fucked everything else up.
 
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Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,245
what's up with you people dive bombing in to trans related thread when you know you aren't able to talk about the issue with proper tact?
I've been wondering about this, too. And although it's a particular problem with trans related threads, it's not exclusive to them; same thing happened in the thread about YA authors ganging up on a college student, for example.

What people need to realize is this: when your overriding impulse entering a thread is to make your mark on the discussion, such that you have zero intention of actually listening, there's a pretty good chance you're drifting into shittiness and will write a shitty post. And while forums aren't the highest stake environments in the world, it's still worth attempting to be a decent person while engaging with the people on them.

Like, among all the reasons that people might struggle with tact in these discussions, the refusal to listen has to deserve a place of prominence among them.
 

keku

Member
Apr 23, 2019
58
You are wrong.

This episode takes a popular right wing talking point that has been proven wrong many times, then it pretends like there aren't already stipulations on place for trans athletes to compete. It then presents this as though it were an actual problem that we need to see through a new lens in order to find a solution.

This is all shit because it was built on a foundation of bigotry and dogwhistles. The very premise of the episode is transphobic, so them fucking up the details is only the cherry on top of the shit pie. It would have been transphobic even if they hadn't fucked everything else up.
My bad, I'm from argentina so I might not be best versed on these issues in the US, thought I had a fair argument.

Also I completely blocked out that trans dolphin episode... makes me realize how much I grew since I first saw it till today. Paradigms breaking are a journey I guess, even if I do consider myself progressive. The good thing is that progressive can be exponential and not linear growth
 

srsly?

Member
Feb 24, 2018
3,483
I believe that it sheds a critic light on something on people exploiting gray areas.
THIS "EXPLOITING GRAY AREAS" SHIT DOES NOT HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE. It only exists in bigoted, alt-right propaganda. Stop spreading this crap like a card-carrying transphobe.

Eventually I think these things need to be discussed to reach a true level of fairness and acceptance of everyone.
Oh hai, classic dogwhistle language. I hate jumping to the conclusion someone I don't know is a transphobe. But when you parrot the standard talking points as if by rote, it's beyond me how anyone can honestly expect otherwise.

Your input here is not appreciated.
 

keku

Member
Apr 23, 2019
58
THIS "EXPLOITING GRAY AREAS" SHIT DOES NOT HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE. It only exists in bigoted, alt-right propaganda. Stop spreading this crap like a card-carrying transphobe.


Oh hai, classic dogwhistle language. I hate jumping to the conclusion someone I don't know is a transphobe. But when you parrot the standard talking points as if by rote, it's beyond me how anyone can honestly expect otherwise.

Your input here is not appreciated.
Chill down. First of all I admitted I was wrong, as long as a person is open to discussion and exchange of ideas to say that their input is not appreciated is stupidity of a major magnitud. I'm not from the US, so I might be as versed as some of you but I still like to engage in discussions. They generate growth, and I did not come here disrespecting anyone until you came to shit on what I said.

You consider me a transphobe? Man you can fuck right off, I might hold some misguided views but I accept everyone as it is and I feel sad for so many of the struggles that trans people have to go through. You clearly don't know me, you are a clown to spew venom like that.

Ok... now I need to chill it seems. I'm as far from the far right as you are from tolerance.

I came here to expose what I perceived from the episode based on my world view and open for it to be challenged and changed with reasonable arguments. You shutting me down does nothing more than divide, get off your ivory tower and understand that a reasonable and open exchange of ideas between grown up people in an open way can lead to growth.

Learn to differentiate between a MAGA meat head and someone open to have their views challenged. Sorry but the pre judging of someone pisses me off, even if I was wrong, there is no excuse for what you labeled me as.
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
9,167
My bad, I'm from argentina so I might not be best versed on these issues in the US, thought I had a fair argument.
This is how this manifests in real life toward real trans people. A few quotes from trash I won't boost further than the example.
Rousey's comments come in the wake of the UFC suspending heavyweight Matt Mitrione indefinitely for calling Fox a "lying, sick, sociopathic, disgusting freak." Rousey said Mitrione chose his words "extremely poorly," though she completely understands where he's coming from. Which essentially can be summed up like this: Fox was born a man and still is one, despite her testosterone levels legally making her a woman..
Fight guys, yes. She has to fight guys. First of all, she's not really a she. She's a transgender, post-op person.
I'm not trying to discriminate against women in any way, shape, or form and I'm a big supporter of women's fighting. I loved watching that Ronda Rousey/Liz Carmouche fight. But those are actual women. Those are actual women. And as strong as Ronda Rousey looks, she's still looks to me like a pretty girl. She's a beautiful girl who happens to be strong. She's a girl! [Fallon Fox] is not a girl, OK? This is a [transgender] woman. It's a totally different specification.
You need to fight men your size because you're a man. You're a man without a dick.
It's a disgusting conservative come alt-right talking point. The conversation has happened. That's why there's trans women in sports. That's why the Olympics has regulations around trans women competing. It's why the IOC are revising them, because it is still something being discussed.

South Park isn't trying to start any conversation, it's taking a budget sledgehammer to trans people for a quick laugh from the ignorant. Safe in the knowledge that there will always be someone trying to excuse their trash as some deep thought piece.
 
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Speely

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,923
Glad I stopped watching this trash years ago.
Same. If they actually cared about addressing the issues they poke fun at, they would know that the bullshit "grey area" they indulge in is fodder for the bigots who live to exploit it, and does nothing for people who care about said issues. Not surprised to see this coming from a couple of privileged libertarians who love to be transphobic and who have landed squarely on the wrong side of history by making fun of an existential crisis.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,302
UK
It’s the same methods psychologists use in CBT.

The best way to change someone’s thought process is to help them notice incongruent thoughts, forcing them to arrive at a new conclusion.

Humour disarms people, especially on sensitive issues.

I’ll need to watch the episode before commenting on how they’ve presented the transitioning process, but I don’t believe their overall structure of presenting opposition arguments reductio ad absurdism is “naive”.
Presenting facts and evidence isn’t always effective for changing minds in a percentage of the population

It doesn’t work because some people get defensive once they realise you don’t approve of their thoughts.

Could you suggest an alternative, more effective method for disarming and inviting people to improve their stance on sensitive topics?
The difference with CBT is the person is willing to change. Someone is paying for therapy and want to change their thought processes to something more healthy. That's not what happens with bigots online especially where pride and reputation is on the line. They are not willing to be pulled off the edge of radicalisation. So unless if someone is asking in good faith to have their mind changed on certain issues, they can't be debated with. They are best left alone and come to their senses through their own community or opening their mind by themselves. If they don't want to come to the table, it's not on the minorities or disparaged to educate them.
 

keku

Member
Apr 23, 2019
58
Literally every episode with Mrs Garrison.
I guess I'm either very bad at analysis or optimist at that. I always consider Mr Garrison to be a product of the intolerant world that drives people away from self reflection and understanding, into a world of self loathing and projection. Kinda like the republicans who vote anti LGBT and leak out that they are gay.

But it's true that there is no good representative of any gay or trans person in the series now that I think about it. Since the show is so absurd in many ways I never thought about it being anything more than a grotesque representation of society at a high level.
 

keku

Member
Apr 23, 2019
58
This is how this manifests in real life toward real trans people. A few quotes from trash I won't boost further than the example.





It's a disgusting conservative come alt-right talking point. The conversation has happened. That's why there's trans women in sports. That's why the Olympics has regulations around trans women competing. It's why the ICO are revising them, because it is still something being discussed.

South Park isn't trying to start any conversation, it's taking a budget sledgehammer to trans people for a quick laugh from the ignorant. Safe in the knowledge that there will always be someone trying to excuse their trash as some deep thought piece.
I was not aware of that to be honest, thanks for bringing it up... man those quotes.
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
9,167
Chill down. First of all I admitted I was wrong, as long as a person is open to discussion and exchange of ideas to say that their input is not appreciated is stupidity of a major magnitud. I'm not from the US, so I might be as versed as some of you but I still like to engage in discussions. They generate growth, and I did not come here disrespecting anyone until you came to shit on what I said.

You consider me a transphobe? Man you can fuck right off, I might hold some misguided views but I accept everyone as it is and I feel sad for so many of the struggles that trans people have to go through. You clearly don't know me, you are a clown to spew venom like that.

Ok... now I need to chill it seems. I'm as far from the far right as you are from tolerance.

I came here to expose what I perceived from the episode based on my world view and open for it to be challenged and changed with reasonable arguments. You shutting me down does nothing more than divide, get off your ivory tower and understand that a reasonable and open exchange of ideas between grown up people in an open way can lead to growth.

Learn to differentiate between a MAGA meat head and someone open to have their views challenged. Sorry but the pre judging of someone pisses me off, even if I was wrong, there is no excuse for what you labeled me as.
You're hitting like three or four of the squares on the bingo board in one reply. Please don't tell trans people to fuck off after coming in uninformed and receiving an emotional response.

 

keku

Member
Apr 23, 2019
58
You're hitting like three or four of the squares on the bingo board in one reply. Please don't tell trans people to fuck off after coming in uninformed and receiving an emotional response.

And this means what? After being labeled as something I loathe I will tell anyone to fuck off. I came here with no intention to disrespect, and I can certainly appreciate an emotional response and I can certainly have one as well.

I did not know the user was trans, so I can better appreciate the emotional response on that now. Having said that, I don't intend to offend anyone with what I post.

I hold some very strong opinions too, I come from Argentina and it pains me people living in the first world praising out populism in our region. Yet I do not lash out, or try not to.

Anyway... like I said, I did not mean to offend anyone with my take only generate a discussion. I apologize if anyone saw my comments as someone against trans rights or the struggle they face daily.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,068
Person 1: Please help me understand why this is bad?

Person 2: Lists out reasons and points to problematic situations in life

Person 1: Well wait actually what about ....


Every god damn time. Y’all continue to say “what can we do” and every time the answer is to listen and hear what has to be said. And yet every time those same people don’t do that very basic thing.

I’ve learned a tremendous amount by just listening and showing empathy. It’s not that hard
You can only claim to be ignorant until someone explains things to you. Then you're clearly not a blank slate, you're defending a position.
 

A.By

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,504
And this means what? After being labeled as something I loathe I will tell anyone to fuck off. I came here with no intention to disrespect, and I can certainly appreciate an emotional response and I can certainly have one as well.

I did not know the user was trans, so I can better appreciate the emotional response on that now. Having said that, I don't intend to offend anyone with what I post.

I hold some very strong opinions too, I come from Argentina and it pains me people living in the first world praising out populism in our region. Yet I do not lash out, or try not to.

Anyway... like I said, I did not mean to offend anyone with my take only generate a discussion. I apologize if anyone saw my comments as someone against trans rights or the struggle they face daily.
Transphobia is not a product only of malice.
 

JKuch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
585
You're hitting like three or four of the squares on the bingo board in one reply. Please don't tell trans people to fuck off after coming in uninformed and receiving an emotional response.

Oh! I'm saving this one. Thanks!

But, yeah, fuck South Park, I haven't watched it for the last few years but I was thinking of coming back to it, thought they had got better with this kind of stuff, but they clearly fucking didn't.

Also, as always, any trans thread turns into a graveyard, it's impressive how many blatantly transphobic users we still have.
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
9,167
And this means what? After being labeled as something I loathe I will tell anyone to fuck off. I came here with no intention to disrespect, and I can certainly appreciate an emotional response and I can certainly have one as well.

I did not know the user was trans, so I can better appreciate the emotional response on that now. Having said that, I don't intend to offend anyone with what I post.

I hold some very strong opinions too, I come from Argentina and it pains me people living in the first world praising out populism in our region. Yet I do not lash out, or try not to.

Anyway... like I said, I did not mean to offend anyone with my take only generate a discussion. I apologize if anyone saw my comments as someone against trans rights or the struggle they face daily.
It means you're following the tropes that make trans discussions on the forum irritating. If you understand coming in uninformed was poor and that an emotional response is expected, I'm not sure why you feel validated in entrenching that by telling them to fuck off.

Your intent is meaningless in the face of being the next in a long line of members not reading the issue or listening to the trans voices before jumping in with a "well I don't think it's transphobic" take.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
15,475
Are people still going to bat for South Park in almost-2020? Do they really assume Matt & Trey have the best intentions?

They just sold off the airing rights for $500 MILLION

It's not going anywhere. And a lot of people on this forum are oversensitive. When South Park fights censorship from China they're heroes, but if they dare make fun of trans people it's somehow off limits. Your reactions are exactly why SP is great: it's a critique about everything, whether you like it or not.
I know you're already banned but L O L. Nobody is more sensitive and needing of safe space than South Park fans:

 

Steak

Member
Oct 27, 2017
158
And this means what? After being labeled as something I loathe I will tell anyone to fuck off. I came here with no intention to disrespect, and I can certainly appreciate an emotional response and I can certainly have one as well.

I did not know the user was trans, so I can better appreciate the emotional response on that now. Having said that, I don't intend to offend anyone with what I post.

I hold some very strong opinions too, I come from Argentina and it pains me people living in the first world praising out populism in our region. Yet I do not lash out, or try not to.

Anyway... like I said, I did not mean to offend anyone with my take only generate a discussion. I apologize if anyone saw my comments as someone against trans rights or the struggle they face daily.
If you want to practice respect you should read a thread before you post. Especially if it's about of subset of the population you're not a part of. There's 10 pages in this thread and nothing you have said is anything new compared to the last 9 pages. You're getting responses you don't like because you're one of a number of people asking trans people to repeat the same arguments ad nauseam.