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South Park mocks trans athlete with a transphobic episode

cinch

Member
Feb 17, 2019
178
Ugh, just when i was rooting for them after the Hong Kong stuff they go and do this. Just unfollowed South Park on twitter, they can go fuck themselves. I always thought the whole Mr Garrison stuff was unfunny and transphobic too
 

Tabaxi

Member
Nov 18, 2018
1,695
Sadly this is how debate ends so often in here. Why would anyone bother further stating their opinions when this is what they'll get? I love Era, and (luckily) my politics align with the majority, but wow is this place an echo chamber at times. Nothing the poster said merited such an aggressive response, and no, disagreeing with them is not a valid reason. The potential for discussion on differing viewpoints (not necessarily on trans issues, but on the episode) was brought right down with this post.
This is satire, right?
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,735
Sadly this is how debate ends so often in here. Why would anyone bother further stating their opinions when this is what they'll get? I love Era, and (luckily) my politics align with the majority, but wow is this place an echo chamber at times. Nothing the poster said merited such an aggressive response, and no, disagreeing with them is not a valid reason. The potential for discussion on differing viewpoints (not necessarily on trans issues, but on the episode) was brought right down with this post.
Lol "debate". It was a drive by post gtfo. Hours have passed since the post and the poster never responded to any of the posts quoting them. If that is your idea of "debate" sorry this community can do without drive by transphobia.
 

Icemonk191

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,621
"Guys the real problem is you being mean to the transphobic people! Purity test cancel culture left eating itself etc etc"
 

Ash735

Banned
Sep 4, 2018
906
I can see the joke they were going for, the character was mocked for being trans for the WRONG REASONS (only transitioned to get revenge on their ex, being very toxic and hated women that much they became one to beat other women), but in the case of making jokes that involve trans people it's a very fine line that's often best left ignored, even if the jokes are made by allies in good faith (Lindsay Ellis), the community will rarely ever agree on if the joke was good and if it causes offence or not, it's basically a minefield where you can easily sound wrong and offensive.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,735
I can see the joke they were going for, the character was mocked for being trans for the WRONG REASONS (only transitioned to get revenge on their ex, being very toxic and hated women that much they became one to beat other women), but in the case of making jokes that involve trans people it's a very fine line that's often best left ignored, even if the jokes are made by allies in good faith (Lindsay Ellis), the community will rarely ever agree on if the joke was good and if it causes offence or not, it's basically a minefield where you can easily sound wrong and offensive.
Especially considering their own history on the issue. Of course they wouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt in regards to jokes or setups that could go either way.
 

Doomsayer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,515
I can see the joke they were going for, the character was mocked for being trans for the WRONG REASONS (only transitioned to get revenge on their ex, being very toxic and hated women that much they became one to beat other women), but in the case of making jokes that involve trans people it's a very fine line that's often best left ignored, even if the jokes are made by allies in good faith (Lindsay Ellis), the community will rarely ever agree on if the joke was good and if it causes offence or not, it's basically a minefield where you can easily sound wrong and offensive.
Especially considering their own history on the issue. Of course they wouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt in regards to jokes or setups that could go either way.
Yes and yes.

"The Cissy" did a bit of a redemption for them, but this was just off the mark.
 

Dolobill

Member
Oct 25, 2017
669
South Park will often make a statement by creating an outrageous scenario, in a way that highlights the stupidity of anyone who could believe such a scenario were plausible. I think that is the intent of this episode, and I think it is lost on people who are not familiar with the show.
 

srsly?

Member
Feb 24, 2018
3,485
I am disappointed about this episode. I feel like South Park has done a great deal lately about addressing social issues and politics especially in regards to President Trump.
If it wasn't so facepalm-worthy, it would be utterly hilarious how many people think that these super-privileged white dudes have ever had their heart in the right place for even 10 minutes. Show's been shitty and nihilistic and mean-spirited since its inception. 23 years later, that hasn't changed.
 
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hibikase

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,820
South Park will often make a statement by creating an outrageous scenario, in a way that highlights the stupidity of anyone who could believe such a scenario were plausible. I think that is the intent of this episode, and I think it is lost on people who are not familiar with the show.
It is consistent with their overall philosophy that caring about things is stupid, I guess.
 

Just_a_Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,008
South Park will often make a statement by creating an outrageous scenario, in a way that highlights the stupidity of anyone who could believe such a scenario were plausible. I think that is the intent of this episode, and I think it is lost on people who are not familiar with the show.
Was that what they were doing on that dolphin episode as well? Or every other time they've taken a shot at trans people? Their views are abundantly clear to all, don't try and tell me how I should be interpreting this trash.

Quit. Making. Excuses. For. This. Shit.
 
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Steak

Member
Oct 27, 2017
158
South Park will often make a statement by creating an outrageous scenario, in a way that highlights the stupidity of anyone who could believe such a scenario were plausible. I think that is the intent of this episode, and I think it is lost on people who are not familiar with the show.
Can you explain how that's achieved in this episode because I'm not seeing it. What statement are they making, how are they highlighting the stupidity of anyone who believes the scenario could happen?
 

Icemonk191

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,621
However, most hating on South Park over this episode most likely refuse to acknowledge the episode where they called themselves out and flat out said "We we're wrong, the planet is on fire!" And having the sub plot be about boomer denial of climate change.
Cool. What does that have with them being transphobic?
 

Gentlemen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,410
However, most hating on South Park over this episode most likely refuse to acknowledge the episode where they called themselves out and flat out said "We we're wrong, the planet is on fire!" And having the sub plot be about boomer denial of climate change.
I'll credit them with their mea culpa on ManBearPig. But it was 12 years after the fact.
I don't know if I can give them the benefit of the doubt after all the other episodes of casually invoking harmful stereotypes for over a decade or more now about trans people if the best I can hope for is an episode in 2031 that somehow approaches the topic respectfully for a change.
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,845
South Park will often make a statement by creating an outrageous scenario, in a way that highlights the stupidity of anyone who could believe such a scenario were plausible. I think that is the intent of this episode, and I think it is lost on people who are not familiar with the show.
Here's the thing.

When your comedy scenario basically mimics actual bigotry happening in the world right now, in this case building up transgendered people as angry, vindictive members of the opposite sex out to scheme or connive or trick "normal people" into doing something they wouldn't normally do for nefarious reasons, you come off as transphobic. No amount of handwaving or backtalking or "but it's just a joke!" changes that. We're STILL dealing with bathroom bills in half of the country, we're still dealing with angry white ladies saying that all transwomen are angry men looking to get one over one people, we're still dealing with transfolk being denied the right to adopt because their union is "an abomination".

So why should we think that it's funny? Because Cartman does it? Because Trey and Matt made a funny musical once?

Stop making excuses for bigoted speech and listen to the people affected for once.

Like, for Trey and Matt specifically, I don't understand why every time they put a transperson in focus it's to punch down. I gave them as pass on Caitlyn Jenner because she is a genuinely awful person who deserves all she gets regarding her fucking putrid antics. But the jokes about her aren't about those antics, they're about how she looks, how she sounds, how she moves, the things she can't help. With so much to punch down for, they go for the easy bait, because they know it's what their audience will be able to latch on to.

So forgive me if I'm not "familiar with the show", but they can fuck right off. They do this too often for it to be a tale of a joke that didn't land well.

Lindsey Wagner tried making fun of Ricky Gervias, a noted transphobe, by repeating transphobic jokes. She meant it in a way that would try and make people see how crazy and hurtful the things he was saying really were, but all she really ended up doing is spreading hate speech. She got called out for it, rightfully so.

Why would you wouldn't do the same towards Trey and Matt when they fuck up is baffling.
 

Isilia

Member
Mar 11, 2019
728
US: PA
They seem to do more harm than good.

Friends of mine love the show, so I end up seeing episodes from time to time.

Thankfully they are starting to get the hint I'm not interested.
 

Boogiepop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,298
Everyone here is aware that this character is basically what transphobes pretend they're against when they're challenged directly right? There's a classic refrain of "I'm not actually against trans people I just have ***legitimate concerns*** about evil men pretending to be women in order to (beat them at sports/sexually abuse women/sexually abuse children) so therefore we need to remove rights from trans people because it's our only choice."

There's nothing subversive or smart or nuanced about it, it's just shit. and it's legitimizing transphobe talking points.
Yup, exactly what I came in here to say. Thought they were getting better after The Cissy, but this episode was just gross to watch, which sucks as I genuinely enjoyed the boardgame half.

I see what they were "going for"... but it still ends on "we need to be willing to talk about some things" and that thing in particular that they used is a damn boogeyman that they've parroted, spreading something that is doing active harm to trans folks like me.

So yeah... fuck off, South Park. I've been hanging on because of pure momentum and because I did genuinely think they were getting somewhat better, despite still having missteps (that anxiety episode mentioned earlier in the thread being a BIG one), but yeah... think it may be time to be done with this show, as this episode was just awful in a way that reminded me of that godawful dolphin episode.
 

Deleted member 14663

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
749
User Banned (1 Month): Dismissing Concerns Around Transphobia; Prior Severe Infraction
Some people on this forum... I can't believe what I am reading. South Park has so many utterly amazing episodes, there have been so many highs that any low seasons/episodes are quickly forgiven. It is the best freaking show to keep up with the state of America and what the future will be like in a few months. They are almost always spot on.
 
Some people on this forum... I can't believe what I am reading. South Park has so many utterly amazing episodes, there have been so many highs that any low seasons/episodes are quickly forgiven. It is the best freaking show to keep up with the state of America and what the future will be like in a few months. They are almost always spot on.
shitting on trans people for the nth time is okay because this show has some good episodes
 

SimplyComplex

Member
May 23, 2018
486
User Banned (1 week): Dismissal of transphobic content
The episode really didn’t really mock trans athletes though.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,735
Some people on this forum... I can't believe what I am reading. South Park has so many utterly amazing episodes, there have been so many highs that any low seasons/episodes are quickly forgiven. It is the best freaking show to keep up with the state of America and what the future will be like in a few months. They are almost always spot on.
They are great in some social aspects but considerably weak in others. This trans episode just goes to show that. They are pretty blatant to how much of a fucker President Trump is. But when it comes to tran's issue they are going to play it middle-ground. Wonder why?
 

Dark Knight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,537
You mean the one where, at the end, Big Al literally talks about how a private organization like the scouts shouldn't be forced into admitting gay people? That one?
And that's Al's prerogative. What, you think gay people are a monolith who aren't allowed to have their own opinions and beliefs, and must conform to the same opinions as one another? The episode fucking spelled it out before that moment by showing an outrageous abusive pedophile under the guise of a straight arrow type scout leader, shattering the mental mold and attitudes of the townspeople had on gay people in positions of power. Beyond that message, Al is free to think however he wants regardless of how faulty or toxic you or I think that opinion may be.
Also, gotta love how "purity test" has become the new dog whistle after "SJW" became a joke.Ya'll ain't slick.
Oh bravo, you got me. You've exposed me as the socially regressive leper I am, rotting away before your very eyes.

Fuck off with the gross accusations, that's some petty, toxic bullshit and it ensures a more heated and hateful conversation. I assure you I didn't intend to use anything as a dog whistle because I don't see purity tests as a dog whistle. I put people and things through my own purity tests all the time, so I find it pretty rich you're calling me some kind of anti-PC character under your breath.
 

cinch

Member
Feb 17, 2019
178
Lindsey Wagner tried making fun of Ricky Gervias, a noted transphobe, by repeating transphobic jokes. She meant it in a way that would try and make people see how crazy and hurtful the things he was saying really were, but all she really ended up doing is spreading hate speech. She got called out for it, rightfully so.
Nooo not the Bionic Woman! It must've been bigfoot's fault. Kidding, just thought this was funny, we know you meant Lindsay Ellis
 

Lulzwagon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
699
Canada
I thought this episode was okay and I got the point they were trying to make, I just don't get why they felt the need to make this point at all. Of course it's terrible for people to pretend to transition for personal gain... but why discuss this issue at all?

Despite this, I personally didn't find it transphobic but I obviously don't have the same perspective as a trans person. They may see it differently.

The subplot was much better at least.
 

optimus8936

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,886
Of course it's terrible for people to pretend to transition for personal gain... but why discuss this issue at all?
If it's an issue, shouldn't it be discussed?

It's funny because this thread is a perfect example of why this episode existed in the first place. Anyone who thinks you're a transphobe for thinking this is a difficult topic to discuss and that there's nuance to it, is exactly why this episode exists.
 

Tabaxi

Member
Nov 18, 2018
1,695
And that's Al's prerogative. What, you think gay people are a monolith who aren't allowed to have their own opinions and beliefs, and must conform to the same opinions as one another? The episode fucking spelled it out before that moment by showing an outrageous abusive pedophile under the guise of a straight arrow type scout leader, shattering the mental mold and attitudes of the townspeople had on gay people in positions of power. Beyond that message, Al is free to think however he wants regardless of how faulty or toxic you or I think that opinion may be.
Is this a joke?

Al isn't fucking real. He's a fictional character. And in the episode, he was blatantly the mouth piece of two straight libertarian dudes. Part of the message of the episode was literally "it doesn't matter if the scouts are wrong about gay people, we should respect the rights of private institutions to do what they want, and it's our prerogative to defeat them in the market place of ideas and convince them, because libertarianism ftw."

I actually can't think of a better example of everything wrong about South Park when, even after an episode of trying to debunk and deconstruct homophobia, they end it by having their token gay character outright say his rights as a human aren't as important as a private institution's rights to be bigoted.
 

IanGrag

Member
May 1, 2018
444
It's disappointing to see another thread here about trans issues full of people cisplaining to trans members what's actually transphobic. I can easily see why trans people might want to avoid threads like this.
I always leave it to trans people to give their opinion first. Ultimately, I support trans people, I don’t get to determine what is transphobic and what isn’t. I thought the episode was okay, but ultimately, the opinion of trans people is what really matters.

I will say that the trans sports issue seems to be complicated, but as someone who despises sports in general, I’m cool with whatever makes the most people feel safe.
 

StreaksFox

Member
Oct 29, 2017
523
Pretty sure a lot of "mainstream" comedies are still woefully behind with trans discourse. Last month Family Guy had an episode that was about Brian dating someone who was trans but 70% of the jokes were one-liners about trans people or how he was having "goofball sex."
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,536
If it's an issue, shouldn't it be discussed?

It's funny because this thread is a perfect example of why this episode existed in the first place. Anyone who thinks you're a transphobe for thinking this is a difficult topic to discuss and that there's nuance to it, is exactly why this episode exists.
It's not an issue though. Please point to me of a similar situation that happened in the real world?

This is bigoted fear mongering when Ben Shapiro does it. And it's the same when South Park does it.
 

Tabaxi

Member
Nov 18, 2018
1,695
If it's an issue, shouldn't it be discussed?

It's funny because this thread is a perfect example of why this episode existed in the first place. Anyone who thinks you're a transphobe for thinking this is a difficult topic to discuss and that there's nuance to it, is exactly why this episode exists.
Ok.

Imagine that, instead of trans people, they made an episode about a hypothetical boogeyman scenario for literally any other group. And they played that scenario entirely straight, and without subverting it, or challenging it.

Now imagine pretending there's any nuance to that, or that it's a valid topic to explore.
 

Tabaxi

Member
Nov 18, 2018
1,695
However, most hating on South Park over this episode most likely refuse to acknowledge the episode where they called themselves out and flat out said "We we're wrong, the planet is on fire!" And having the sub plot be about boomer denial of climate change.
They made the original Manbearpig episode in 2006. By 2006, Climate Change had been, for years and years, an undeniable, inarguable fact. And it took them 12 years to make any kind of apology.

Like, cool, they admitted they were wrong. But being the last horse to cross the finish the line isn't exactly laudable. Especially after all the damage they did blindly regurgitating Cato anti-global warming talking points