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excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,316
There are threads I absolutely know are a mistake to get involved in but I do it anyway.

Mods go ahead and do your job, the mob has spoken.

Oh to hoist thinself upon your cross
To toil in your hubris
To proclaim to be a martyr
But instead be revealed as a clown
A caricature of perfomative "TRUTH TELLING"
When the only thing you can't handle
Is the truth.

Pity me
Pity me
You cry
And cry
And cry
To Twitter I'm sure
You fly
You fly
You fly

Social Justice claims another victim.
 

Lundren

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,745
I can see that, I am playing victim. I don't hate transgender people on any level, I really don't. I regret if it came off that way. I just think Comedy (even poor attempts) shouldn't have limits based on what offends people.

I know this guy is banned already, but I have to say this even though it isn't the first time.

The problem with these "jokes" is that they actively incite bigots and embolden them to go out and take care of "the problem" that exists in their own heads. They see shit like this, think it actually happens and go out and kill trans women.

It isn't about being offended, it's about seeing the telltale signs of bigoted violence being stirred up.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
There are threads I absolutely know are a mistake to get involved in but I do it anyway.

Mods go ahead and do your job, the mob has spoken.
Dude if you want to enjoy the show, enjoy it. If you want to hate it then hate it. If you want to be pissed at being called a bigot, you're entitled to that. But people aren't obliged to be nicer about this subject in regards to LGBTQ+ representation because these conversations have been repeated and expounded on for generations. The writing already exists for yourself and the SP creators to actually learn about these issues and understand why exactly they offend people and what effect they have on modern society as a whole. If your goal is your own comfort then maybe you should stay away from topics like these. If your goal is actually helping in progressing culture and society, then that means actually listening to marginalized people when they say that "everything is on the table for comedy" is not at all a solid defense for harmful representation. Everything being on the table doesn't make everything funny or free from critique and rather can often lead to reinforcing gross and dangerous stereotypes that, in the context of trans people, lead to pain and suffering for the marginalized group in question.
 

Just_a_Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,030
I can see that, I am playing victim. I don't hate transgender people on any level, I really don't. I regret if it came off that way. I just think Comedy (even poor attempts) shouldn't have limits based on what offends people.


Can't say I'm sorry to see you go. I only hope you will learn something from this experience and try to be less dismissive of the thoughts and concerns of the trans community going forward with your life.
 
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NoName999

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,906
Lol here's the problem with the "it's naunce" excuse:

When the hell has South Park ever been SUBTLE?
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
what's up with you people dive bombing in to trans related thread when you know you aren't able to talk about the issue with proper tact?

Dudes sacrificing their accounts on the alter of hubris is, I suppose, the one part of South Park that's kind of consistently funny (it's the only reason I can process the continued appeal of Cartman, at least), but the thing is that it's even funnier when the shitgibbons do it in real life and get immediately owned for it.
 

Studge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,071
I can see that, I am playing victim. I don't hate transgender people on any level, I really don't. I regret if it came off that way. I just think Comedy (even poor attempts) shouldn't have limits based on what offends people.
Ok dude, I'm willing to believe you that you don't hate transgender people. I assume Matt and Trey don't either but it's conveyed by your posts and this episode that you all don't care about trans people and their pain. It's fine if you aren't affected by "jokes" like this, I'm not either by this or any other racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. shit that someone might say because I'm shielded by my cis/het/white/male privilege. What's important to understand is that this shield is often also a bag over our heads that can blind us to the pain experienced by others. This episode is causing real people real pain because it is portraying scenarios that, despite being completely ridiculous and false, certain people actually believe are true and possible. They see this episode and it emboldens their hatred of trans people by giving legitimacy to their imagined scenarios of men invading women's spaces under the guise of being trans. Trans people are like the most murdered minority so anything that increases hate towards them is fucking dangerous and that's why this needs to be called out and criticized.

If trans people were fully accepted and held power and respect within our society then maaaybe "LOL isn't it ridiculous to imagine a man pretending to be trans to win at women's sports?" might fly, but we're not there yet and won't be for a long ass time. Again, it's fine if you aren't affected by this, but please have some empathy for the people it hurts and understand how rude it is to profess your privilege in a space where people without said privilege are discussing how hurtful it is to them. If you can't say something nice or helpful, maybe keep it to yourself.
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
10,007
Ok dude, I'm willing to believe you that you don't hate transgender people. I assume Matt and Trey don't either but it's conveyed by your posts and this episode that you all don't care about trans people and their pain. It's fine if you aren't affected by "jokes" like this, I'm not either by this or any other racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. shit that someone might say because I'm shielded by my cis/het/white/male privilege. What's important to understand is that this shield is often also a bag over our heads that can blind us to the pain experienced by others. This episode is causing real people real pain because it is portraying scenarios that, despite being completely ridiculous and false, certain people actually believe are true and possible. They see this episode and it emboldens their hatred of trans people by giving legitimacy to their imagined scenarios of men invading women's spaces under the guise of being trans. Trans people are like the most murdered minority so anything that increases hate towards them is fucking dangerous and that's why this needs to be called out and criticized.

If trans people were fully accepted and held power and respect within our society then maaaybe "LOL isn't it ridiculous to imagine a man pretending to be trans to win at women's sports?" might fly, but we're not there yet and won't be for a long ass time. Again, it's fine if you aren't affected by this, but please have some empathy for the people it hurts and understand how rude it is to profess your privilege in a space where people without said privilege are discussing how hurtful it is to them. If you can't say something nice or helpful, maybe keep it to yourself.
basically this
 

Phantom

Writer at Jeux.ca
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,446
Canada
User Banned (2 weeks): Dismissing transphobia
This is such a horrendous show, will forever pray for its downfall. A literall stain on media, it was never in any way shape or form good. I hope this bitch gets cancelled soon. A literal DISEASE
They just sold off the airing rights for $500 MILLION

It's not going anywhere. And a lot of people on this forum are oversensitive. When South Park fights censorship from China they're heroes, but if they dare make fun of trans people it's somehow off limits. Your reactions are exactly why SP is great: it's a critique about everything, whether you like it or not.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,316
They just sold off the airing rights for $500 MILLION

It's not going anywhere. And a lot of people on this forum are oversensitive. When South Park fights censorship from China they're heroes, but if they dare make fun of trans people it's somehow off limits. Your reactions are exactly why SP is great: it's a critique about everything, whether you like it or not.

God someone pays you to write stuff?

They should ask for a refund

"YOU KNOW WHAT'S AWESOME ABOUT SOUTH PARK! THEY SHIT ON AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENTS AND TRANS PEOPLE! CHECK OUT MY DEATH STRANDING REVIEW!"
 

Deleted member 2761

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,620
They just sold off the airing rights for $500 MILLION

It's not going anywhere. And a lot of people on this forum are oversensitive. When South Park fights censorship from China they're heroes, but if they dare make fun of trans people it's somehow off limits. Your reactions are exactly why SP is great: it's a critique about everything, whether you like it or not.

Obviously, there are parallels between an authoritarian regime and a historically oppressed population. Wait, no there isn't. Get bent.
 

Icemonk191

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,814
They just sold off the airing rights for $500 MILLION

It's not going anywhere. And a lot of people on this forum are oversensitive. When South Park fights censorship from China they're heroes, but if they dare make fun of trans people it's somehow off limits. Your reactions are exactly why SP is great: it's a critique about everything, whether you like it or not.
You're fucking verified? What a disgrace. Fuck off you transphobic piece of shit
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
They just sold off the airing rights for $500 MILLION

It's not going anywhere. And a lot of people on this forum are oversensitive. When South Park fights censorship from China they're heroes, but if they dare make fun of trans people it's somehow off limits. Your reactions are exactly why SP is great: it's a critique about everything, whether you like it or not.
What exactly is "oversensitive"? Calling out a show that peddles disgusting transphobia as satire? You've just said the show's not going anywhere yet somehow trans people and their allies are harming the creators or anything else by critiquing the show, right? Just like people, shows can have and express progressive ideals at one moment and regressive and outright harmful ones at another. And consumers are allowed to comment on and critique a show when it outright fails without having to give it a pass simply because it chooses to be correct some other times, particularly those who have to suffer when the piece of media blatantly sells an ideal that feeds the oppression of a marginalized group. If you consider SP free to critique anything then it's also free to be critiqued for anything. That's the reality of putting out media and being a piece of media doesn't give special privileges.
 
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lowmelody

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,101
They just sold off the airing rights for $500 MILLION

It's not going anywhere. And a lot of people on this forum are oversensitive. When South Park fights censorship from China they're heroes, but if they dare make fun of trans people it's somehow off limits. Your reactions are exactly why SP is great: it's a critique about everything, whether you like it or not.

It's a shame someone like you has a professional platform, going by your tag.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
They just sold off the airing rights for $500 MILLION

It's not going anywhere. And a lot of people on this forum are oversensitive. When South Park fights censorship from China they're heroes, but if they dare make fun of trans people it's somehow off limits. Your reactions are exactly why SP is great: it's a critique about everything, whether you like it or not.

This is such a pathetic troll response. "You are mad, therefore it is genius."
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
They just sold off the airing rights for $500 MILLION

It's not going anywhere. And a lot of people on this forum are oversensitive. When South Park fights censorship from China they're heroes, but if they dare make fun of trans people it's somehow off limits. Your reactions are exactly why SP is great: it's a critique about everything, whether you like it or not.
Wow, what a terrible fucking take

4QFTg5a.gif
 

Deleted member 42055

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 12, 2018
11,215
I didn't excuse it, I said it was a bad episode. They tried to be clever and failed, it was a poor subject and badly done.

I think the issue you have is that I said it is possible to make fun of anything and make it entertaining, which is true.
There are threads I absolutely know are a mistake to get involved in but I do it anyway.

Mods go ahead and do your job, the mob has spoken.
They just sold off the airing rights for $500 MILLION

It's not going anywhere. And a lot of people on this forum are oversensitive. When South Park fights censorship from China they're heroes, but if they dare make fun of trans people it's somehow off limits. Your reactions are exactly why SP is great: it's a critique about everything, whether you like it or not.


Dear Mods,

All of the above comments are the types that have been rampant for months every time a thread on Trans issues has been posted. These are the types of comments that have made our Trans members feel uncomfortable. Please act accordingly.
 

Deleted member 4274

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,435
They just sold off the airing rights for $500 MILLION

It's not going anywhere. And a lot of people on this forum are oversensitive. When South Park fights censorship from China they're heroes, but if they dare make fun of trans people it's somehow off limits. Your reactions are exactly why SP is great: it's a critique about everything, whether you like it or not.
An example of not being able to read a room. Wow.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
*dipshit who doesn't understand there's a difference between good things and bad things voice* Very bad of trans people to shoot hong kong protestors in the face like that, thank god south park is here to stand up to the real enemies
 

Snowy

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,399
This is such a horrendous show, will forever pray for its downfall. A literall stain on media, it was never in any way shape or form good. I hope this bitch gets cancelled soon. A literal DISEASE

A) The movie was great, and B) Overinflating the scope and immediacy of problems is not mentally healthy nor rhetorically useful. South Park is an incredibly problematic franchise, but it's not exactly influential anymore, and its continued existence is more a testament to capitalism's ability to milk resources dry than a poisoner of culture.
 

Deleted member 4274

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,435
He knew how to read the room. He just wanted to shit on trans folks. Cause he's transphobic
Oh I know. The 'make fun of trans folk' part gave that away. Imagine going into a thread with multiple trans folk highlighting an issue and saying that shit. What is it about trans men and women that rustle so many god damn taint muscles? I don't fucking get it.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,101
UK
Well let's distill one of the main objectives in the episode about this character, that is...

Can a person transition for the wrong reason?

Can a trans person be toxic?

That seemed to be the main focus of the jokes in the episode.
The questions republicans wonder.

Were the police shooting victims really angels?
 

zon

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,423
Making fun of the more marginalized groups of society isn't funny and it never has been. It's lazy and callous.

Leave it to those minorities if they want to make fun of themselves.
 

anariel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
961
Surprised we haven't gotten the "I know somebody who is trans and thinks it's hilarious so that makes it fine" defense yet, honestly.

The kind of stuff that South Park "satirizes" is dangerously ignorant at best. Ultimately the joke boils down to "ha ha trans people amirite" and there's not really any nuance past that. They've done this kind of sledgehammer approach to satire for sensitive topics for decades now and it is beyond tiresome.
 

How About No

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,785
The Great Dairy State
Surprised we haven't gotten the "I know somebody who is trans and thinks it's hilarious so that makes it fine" defense yet, honestly.

The kind of stuff that South Park "satirizes" is dangerously ignorant at best. Ultimately the joke boils down to "ha ha trans people amirite" and there's not really any nuance past that. They've done this kind of sledgehammer approach to satire for sensitive topics for decades now and it is beyond tiresome.
I swear there was at least one here or in the Ricky Gervais thread
 

timedesk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,937
What the hell are some of these replies? Why do so many people throw out the word "oversensitive" to a group of people who have been treated so poorly? It can't possibly be that they have been treated as a cultural punching bag for generations, or that in the past few years alone have had numerous heads of state try to dehumanize them, erase them, and invalidate their experiences? It can't be the product of lifetimes of abuse, no it has to be that they're just looking to be outraged.

It's disgusting, and to shit on the Trans population in defense of South Park is just insane. The show that has a history of being transphobic, the show where a bunch of straight white guys had their gay character say that the F word was no longer insulting to gays. Every now and then the show might take a positive stance, but usually it is in defense of the creators getting to make fun of whoever they want.

I'm truly sorry to go on a rant. Nothing I'm saying is new. I just am grossed out that so many people came on this thread to try and insult people for being tried of these shit depictions. To act like South Park has never had a garbage hot take before, or that it is immune from being called out for promoting hateful stereotypes and talking points. Media impacts the culture, and it is good to call this garbage out to help stop normalizing these garbage depictions.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
[spoken while the current federal administration is rolling back rights and attempting to remove trans people from public jobs] why are you queers so mad all the time
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
What the hell are some of these replies? Why do so many people throw out the word "oversensitive" to a group of people who have been treated so poorly? It can't possibly be that they have been treated as a cultural punching bag for generations, or that in the past few years alone have had numerous heads of state try to dehumanize them, erase them, and invalidate their experiences? It can't be the product of lifetimes of abuse, no it has to be that they're just looking to be outraged.

The bottom of it simply is that there are a bunch of people who claim that they care about transpeople but are uncomfortable/straight up opposed to actually doing the work of listening and learning from those people. They have to de-legitimize the anger that comes from marginalized communities to remain comfortable and avoid recognizing how little they do in regards to moving the needle forward. If they were able to internalize how fundamentally warped the world is from the perspective of the disenfranchised then they wouldn't so eagerly leap to the defense of the problematic media they enjoy while putting down its detractors as loons who get off on being "outraged all the time". Being an honest to goodness ally of the marginalized truly takes work and self-reflection and many are just way too lazy for that and instead oppose and bury any opportunity to do so. If you make people's concerns about the perpetuation of their oppression trivial, silly, & just outrageous you never have to grow.
 

NeuroCloud

Banned
Jun 10, 2019
103
I haven't seen the episode yet, so I won't comment on the social commentary of the episode just yet.

I'll be very disappointed if the episode undermines the gravity of decision required to transition, and I'll be furious if the episode perpetuates fears of of men using transgenderism as a strategic vehicle for taking advantage of others in society.

Social commentary should require a situation in society to commentate on.

Hopefully, the situation in this case is "society's unfounded fears towards transgenderism" and not the process of transitioning itself.

I don't believe there has ever been even one case of a man strategically transitioning for nefarious purposes. The process is incredibly long and arduous. Nobody would ever go through it flippantly.

I will watch the episode hoping to find a subtle, satisfying conclusion at the end that is able to "invite" the uneducated viewer to re-think the transitioning process.

Over the years, South Park has consistently presented two opposing points of view to invite the viewer to make up their own mind, rather than argue and tell viewers what they should think. I believe this method is more effective at changing minds than any other method on earth (humour, talking on an equal level to the opposite side, and then demonstrating how ridiculous it is through analogy/story without judgment).

I'm hopeful they aim to change the mind of the lesser-educated by roping them in with a relatable smile, showing them how ridiculous their stance is, and then stepping back to let them arrive at their own, more empathetic conclusion about the topic of transitioning.

I'm optimistic that will be the case with this episode, but I will comment again after watching.
 
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Oligarchenemy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,332
Surprised we haven't gotten the "I know somebody who is trans and thinks it's hilarious so that makes it fine" defense yet, honestly.

The kind of stuff that South Park "satirizes" is dangerously ignorant at best. Ultimately the joke boils down to "ha ha trans people amirite" and there's not really any nuance past that. They've done this kind of sledgehammer approach to satire for sensitive topics for decades now and it is beyond tiresome.

We had one of those in the Ricky thread. They showed the thread to their real trans girlfriend, and they both totally had a really truthful laugh about it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,206
I haven't seen the episode yet, so I won't comment on the social commentary of the episode just yet.

I'll be very disappointed if the episode undermines the gravity of decision required to transition, and I'll be furious if the episode perpetuates fears of of men using transgenderism as a strategic vehicle for taking advantage of others in society.

Social commentary should require a situation in society to commentate on.

Hopefully, the situation in this case is "society's unfounded fears towards transgenderism" and not the process of transitioning itself.

I don't believe there has ever been even one case of a man strategically transitioning for nefarious purposes. The process is incredibly long and arduous. Nobody would ever go through it flippantly.

I will watch the episode hoping to find a subtle, satisfying conclusion at the end that is able to "invite" the uneducated viewer to re-think the transitioning process.

Over the years, South Park has consistently presented two opposing points of view to invite the viewer to make up their own mind, rather than argue and tell viewers what they should think. I believe this method is more effective at changing minds than any other method on earth (humour, talking on an equal level to the opposite side, and then demonstrating how ridiculous it is through analogy/story without judgment).

I'm hopeful they aim to change the mind of the lesser-educated by roping them in with a relatable smile, showing them how ridiculous their stance is, and then stepping back to let them arrive at their own, more empathetic conclusion about the topic of transitioning.

I'm optimistic that will be the case with this episode, but I will comment again after watching.

No offense but sometimes this naive stance of "let's present both sides and let people decide" is problematic and as the last few years of online radicalization of alt right talking points have shown us, people are in fact not capable of Decerning the details to form a thoughtful opinion. Especially when the focus of the joke is the number one anti trans athlete talking point.
 

NeuroCloud

Banned
Jun 10, 2019
103
But, and bear with me now, can you see the problem when their attempt at satire is just straight up basic transphobic attack points. What is this episode accomplishing? It's not supportive of trans folk and whether or not it was the intention transphobes are going to see this and feel like the creators are agreeing with them and use it as a bludgeon against trans individuals.

What is the most effective way to invite a transphobe to re-think their uneducated views?

Over the years, South Park has developed an effective means of doing so.

I'll watch the episode tonight and comment on whether or not I think they missed the mark with this one, but I do believe that fundamentally they're fighting for good.

The principle of CBT applies to their commentary style.

How does a psychological entice a client to re-think their own thought processes?

By presenting them with incongruent evidence and waiting for the client to arrive at a new conclusion by themselves.
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,206
What is the most effective way to invite a transphobe to re-think their uneducated views?

Over the years, South Park has developed an effective means of doing so.

I'll watch the episode tonight and comment on whether or not I think they missed the mark with this one, but I do believe that fundamentally they're fighting for good.

The principle of CBT applies to their commentary style.

How does a psychological entice a client to re-think their own thought processes?

By presenting them with incongruent evidence and waiting for the client to arrive at a new conclusion by themselves.

I'm sorry but you're being naive as hell. People on this very forum get shown facts and are given opinions by people of oppressed groups and still respond with BS

South Park is not the first place to present such topics. Period. Especially when they have a history of their work being problematic and needing constant well actually nuance defense from people

And folks in this very thread are explaining WHY they're approach is bad and you're dismissing it. You're proving your own theory fucking wrong.
 

NeuroCloud

Banned
Jun 10, 2019
103
No offense but sometimes this naive stance of "let's present both sides and let people decide" is problematic and as the last few years of online radicalization of alt right talking points have shown us, people are in fact not capable of Decerning the details to form a thoughtful opinion. Especially when the focus of the joke is the number one anti trans athlete talking point.

It's the same methods psychologists use in CBT.

The best way to change someone's thought process is to help them notice incongruent thoughts, forcing them to arrive at a new conclusion.

Humour disarms people, especially on sensitive issues.

I'll need to watch the episode before commenting on how they've presented the transitioning process, but I don't believe their overall structure of presenting opposition arguments reductio ad absurdism is "naive".