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FuocoVivo

Member
Oct 30, 2017
252
Italy
DnA7hZgU8AAxfxC.jpg:large


9/17 is a Monday, the day of the moon, and coincidentally it's the day when SpaceX is poised to announce the name of the wealthy person who signed a contract to be the first space tourist to travel around the Moon.
He or she will enjoy the multi-day trip on board of the gigantic, fully reusable BFR rocket, which SpaceX is currently developing with a set of ambitious aims (including human missions to Mars and the Moon, low cost space tourism and hypersonic transport on Earth).

The announcement will be live streamed on youtube and will include an update on the development and testing of the new rocket.


A few articles on this:
https://spacenews.com/spacex-to-announce-new-lunar-mission-plans/
https://arstechnica.com/science/201...ly-someone-around-the-moon-we-have-questions/

On the challenges of developing the BFR:
https://www.businessinsider.com/spa...p-construction-musk-mars-missions-2018-9?IR=T

Countdown clock:
t1537232400z4.png


** READ THE SECOND POST FOR MY TAKE ON WHY THIS IS IMPORTANT **
 
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FuocoVivo

FuocoVivo

Member
Oct 30, 2017
252
Italy
You may have heard something similar in 2017, when the company announced it wanted to fly two private citizens around the moon late this year, using the same capsule (Dragon 2) that will bring NASA astronauts to the ISS starting 2019.
That plan was later abandoned as SpaceX decided to focus on its new BFR rocket to fulfill its space tourism ambitions, and possibly one of those 2017 mysterious customers is the person who will be announced on Monday.

You may have also heard someone using this canceled mission to cast doubts on SpaceX's seriousness regarding space tourism.

The reality is that this realignment shows exactly he opposite: how serious SpaceX is about space tourism. Not just any form of space tourism, but the most important one: mass market space tourism.
Want to know why? Bear with me.

There are very good reasons to shift from Dragon 2 to the BFR, even if this will result in a few years delay.

-The Big F*cking Rocket is... big: its spaceship is designed to carry dozens of people and its pressurized volume is comparable to an airliner. That extra real estate compared to Dragon 2 (which is comparable to an SUV in size) will come in handy during a multi day, deep space trip, and the mysterious passenger probably won't be flying alone.

-Developing Dragon 2 (and certifying Falcon Heavy) for crewed deep space travel, which has different requirements from the ISS missions it will do for NASA, is costly and not worthwhile for a single mission (or a limited set os missions).
The BFR, on the other hand, is being designed specifically for human deep space travel and tourism, which are part of its core business case.

-But the most important reason is another one, however. Pay attention to this Tweet:

You may dismiss how they specifically say 'enabling access for everyday people who dream of traveling to space' as empty PR talk.
Trust me: it's not. They really mean it.
The BFR is designed with the aim of making space truly low cost, accessible to the middle class of developed countries at least.

How? 2 key features: FULL reusability and high volumes. Features that cannot be accomplishment with the Dragon 2, and require funding a radical new design.
Full reusability means that no part of the vehicle get wasted, except fuel and consumables. It also means little to no refurbishment between flights, like airplanes. It's a feature SpaceX is has already implemented in part and is gradually developing with the Falcon 9. It is being fully implemented in the new rocket, using SpaceX's unique experience and lessons learned.
High volumes means carrying a lot of people per flight and making lots of flights per year to keep prices low. All rockets in the world together usually fly less than 100 times per year, while aircrafts take off millions of times.
As opposed to Dragon 2, the BFR is big enough to carry lots of people at a time, depending on the destination (several hundreds if remaining on Earth, dozens for not too far space destinations). But even if it can hold them in theory, you can't fly a lot of people in your vehicle if it is not demonstrably safe and reliable.
This is the mid term feature that SpaceX is designing the BFR to achieve. It will take time and several iterations: by exploiting full reusability (so you're not constrained by complex and slow aerospace grade manufacturing, because there's always a vehicle ready to fly) you can fly a lot and develop reliability. As the BFR matures over the years it will become more and more reliable based on the data acquired and lessons learned, this will enable it will fly more and more people at a time and more and more flights per year.

So why being excited for a few billionaires spending millions to go up? Because that's only the beginning, that's just the initial low volume phase, useful to acquire funds, data and maturity to improve reliability, fly more people and lower the costs. They're essentially paying dozens of millions to board a risky and immature system and make it safer for us later.

Fuck the billionaires? I don't know. In this case, they are our guinea pigs.

Please be excited, because SpaceX isn't only truly willing to achieve broad access to space, they also have a plan that's unlike any previous one, a plan that may be actually feasible.
 
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Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
I'm curious to see how this plays out, just getting Falcon 9 to run regularly and land and be re-used is a lot of work.
 

Deleted member 2802

Community Resetter
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
33,729
"around the moon" is not nearly as interesting as "on the moon"

You don't get to do a moonwalk, play golf, etc
 

DieH@rd

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,566
Title should specity that this is moon slingshot/orbit, and not a moon landing.

Anyhow, I wish them all the luck.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
7,318
Awesome. Regular flight used to be a rich man's luxury only 50ish years ago and now anyone can hop on a plane and go across the world. This is an essential step in making large scale space flight commercially viable.
 

Geist

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,579
Very cool. Personally, I'm looking forward to what this will enable, permanent outposts/colonies on the moon.
 
Jan 29, 2018
9,390
I'm having a hard time not being extremely cynical. It feels like my entire life something exciting in space flight (namely humans beyond low earth orbit) has been 5-10 years away, and it never gets any closer than 5-10 years away.

Wasn't SpaceX targeting 2020 or 2022 for some kind of Mars launch? Is that still the plan?
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
I would love to see the small print on the ticket waiver language - but it may just be a jpeg of Kenshiro pointing you.
 
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FuocoVivo

FuocoVivo

Member
Oct 30, 2017
252
Italy
I'm having a hard time not being extremely cynical. It feels like my entire life something exciting in space flight (namely humans beyond low earth orbit) has been 5-10 years away, and it never gets any closer than 5-10 years away.

Wasn't SpaceX targeting 2020 or 2022 for some kind of Mars launch? Is that still the plan?
Plan has always been (and still is) mid 2020s for humans to Mars.

On the cynicism: there have been lots of errors in the past of human exploration and lots of broken promises. However one has to try and understand why that happened. To me a major reason for that is obvious: access to space has always been too expensive.
 

Dingens

Circumventing ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,018
Saving the planet by burning tons of fuel for rich tourists.
That's how I like it best
 

GK86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,762
I want to go to go to moon. Ever since I was a little boy that has been my dream. Make it happen!
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,948
Well, that's certainly less messy than a guillotine.

This is a joke, damnit. I'm not preparing to personally cut the heads off the rich. I feel annoyed that I need to say this. Ugh.
 

Sidewinder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,187
Saving the planet by burning tons of fuel for rich tourists.
That's how I like it best

Yeah, if that kind of tourism becomes "cheap" and uses fuel, then I don't really see how that is supposed to be some good news for humanity or anybody expect those who'll be able to afford it.

Who wouldn't want to see earth from space and fly around the moon? That market will be fing massive.

I love space and all that crazy tech, but as long as we'll use humongous amounts of fuel for these flights, they should be for Astronauts and a couple of rich dudes who'll pay millions for each flight.
 
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FuocoVivo

FuocoVivo

Member
Oct 30, 2017
252
Italy
Yeah, if that kind of tourism becomes "cheap" and uses fuel, then I don't really see how that is supposed to be some good news for humanity or anybody expect those who'll be able to afford it.

Who wouldn't want to see earth from space and fly around the moon? That market will be fing massive.

I love space and all that crazy tech, but as long as we'll use humongous amounts of fuel for these flights, they should be for Astronauts and a couple of rich dudes who'll pay millions for each flight.
It depends on how the fuel is made: theoretically you could even synthesize it with clean energy from atmospheric CO2 and water. You would be tossing tons of CO2 outside the atmosphere with every launch. Who knows how energy production will be when this becomes large enough to potentially have real effects on the environment?
 

Sidewinder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,187
It depends on how the fuel is made: theoretically you could even synthesize it with clean energy from atmospheric CO2 and water. You would effectively be tossing tons of CO2 outside the atmosphere. Who knows how energy production will be when this becomes large enough to potentially have real effects on the environment?

Well yeah, if the fuel is made by some completely clean tech, then I'd allow it ;)
 
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FuocoVivo

FuocoVivo

Member
Oct 30, 2017
252
Italy
Well yeah, if the fuel is made by some completely clean tech, then I'd allow it ;)
I mean if all goes well this will become big near the end of next decade (for big I mean thousands of flights per year): if we won't have figured out the transition to renewable energy by then we'll be fucked regardless of the BFR.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
Saving the planet by burning tons of fuel for rich tourists.
That's how I like it best

You really think the BFR will be used just to cruise people around?

We've had space tourism for a while, it's never done to just take someone in space, they just add a passenger, like a lot of ship transportation on Earth also ship goods along with being used to carry passengers.
 

SlothmanAllen

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,834
They've changed the design of the BFR again. It looks like something out of '50s Sci-Fi. Will be interesting to see if they can deliver on their promises.
 

Dingens

Circumventing ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,018
You really think the BFR will be used just to cruise people around?

We've had space tourism for a while, it's never done to just take someone in space, they just add a passenger, like a lot of ship transportation on Earth also ship goods along with being used to carry passengers.

pretty disingenuous argument given how little difference a few extra kilos make to a container vessel and how much extra energy every single kilo to reach space requires.
The bolded: yeah, and none of them claim to save humanity or combat climate change. That's where the hypocrisy lies