Spain seeks charges against Catalan leaders

[Shard Shinjuku]

https://apnews.com/ab6cd0d089594e09...n=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP

pain's State Prosecutor says it's seeking charges of rebellion, sedition and embezzlement for members of the ousted Catalan Cabinet and the governing body of the regional parliament that allowed a vote to declare independence last week.

The crimes can be punished, respectively, with up to 30, 15 and six years in prison under Spanish laws.

The country's chief prosecutor, Jose Manuel Maza, said he would ask the judges for preventive measures against the officials, but didn't specify if those would include their immediate arrest and being sent to jail while awaiting trial.

He said one lawsuit seeks charges for ousted Catalan officials in the country's National Court. That includes regional leader Carles Puigdemont and his No. 2 official, Oriol Junqueras, although Maza didn't name them.

Maza said that a second lawsuit concerning members of the governing body of Catalonia's parliament, including Speaker Carme Forcadell, was filed in the country's Supreme Court.

Some elected officials in Spain, including regional lawmakers, enjoy a degree of immunity before courts and can only be tried in the highest court.

Maza spelled out the charges in a brief appearance before cameras in Madrid. He took no questions from reporters.

 

[D65]

What a shit show, this thing is continually escalating.

 

[KingSnake]

It was to be expected. That's why the Catalan politicians made the vote secret and tried to keep everything pretty non-assuming on individual level.

 

[Fanatic]

I'm sure this treatment of the locals is going to inspire compliance and trust. Can't see anything bad happening from this, none at all...

 

[MonoStable]

To be expected, letting them go Scott free would send a bad message imo

 

[Cor]

Welp, that's one way to fan the flames.

 

[Laille]

The handling of this by the Spanish government is absolutely clown shoes.

 

[KingSnake]

The handling of this by the Spanish government is absolutely clown shoes.

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I see no mention of the Spanish government in the OP.

 

[Yager]

Nice to see justice moving so fast with these people as well as with those dirty PP members. Wait...

 

[tulpa]

The Independent is now reporting that Puigdemont has fled the country to Belgiumand is seeking asylum after the Belgian asylum and migration affairs minister said he could apply for it in Belgium.

A number of members of the Catalan government are said to have gone with him. Maybe this should be added to the OP?

 

[KingSnake]

The Independent is now reporting that Puigdemont has fled the country to Belgiumand is seeking asylum after the Belgian asylum and migration affairs minister said he could apply for it in Belgium.

A number of members of the Catalan government are said to have gone with him. Maybe this should be added to the OP?

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This independence looks like a hit and run.

 

[Aeferis]

I suppose things are different, but I must admit that what I'm reading about Spain from the outside reminds me an awful lot of what I read after the failed coup in Turkey. And Spain is supposed to be a member of the EU.

 

[tuxfool]

The handling of this by the Spanish government is absolutely clown shoes.

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Seems this is the judiciary, not exactly the government. I don't necessarily disagree that the government didn't handle themselves in the best way possible.

I suppose things are different, but I must admit that what I'm reading about Spain from the outside reminds me an awful lot of what I read after the failed coup in Turkey. And Spain is supposed to be a member of the EU.

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Sort of. The independence movement is completely unprepared for whatever comes next, independence or otherwise.

 

[curi0usBystander]

This is getting absurd with Puigdemont (allegedly) seeking asylum in Belgium, while his party is gonna run in the next election.

 

[Deleted member 21431]

One way to stop the separatists being re-elected in the upcoming elections. If they are all in jail, no one can stand and hence no-one can vote for a party that what's an independent state.

 

[tuxfool]

One way to stop the separatists being re-elected in the upcoming elections. If they are all in jail, no one can stand and hence no-one can vote for a party that what's an independent state.

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Parties can put up new leaders.

 

[Ferrs]

The rebelion charge is doubtful to success considering the current laws. Sedition charge is likely.

 

[Deleted member 21431]

Parties can put up new leaders.

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But if you lock up all their well known leaders then they cannot effectively campaign and are massively disadvantaged.

 

[KingSnake]

But if you lock up all their well known leaders then they cannot effectively campaign and are massively disadvantaged.

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Maybe the leaders should have thought about that when they chose their way of action?

 

[Deleted member 21431]

Maybe the leaders should have thought about that when they chose their way of action?

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Maybe the Spanish government shouldn't have backed then into a corner and gave them no choice but to vote for independence due to refusing to talk about the outcome of the referendum. It's clear a significant proportion of the population there (and debatable as to whether is above 50%) wants independence from Spain. The current Spanish constitution appears to have no mechanism for this to be expressed in a legal way.

 

[Hollywood Duo]

From a strictly legal perspective they did do something illegal so they likely knew the consequences of their actions.

 

[KingSnake]

Maybe the Spanish government shouldn't have backed then into a corner and gave them no choice but to vote for independence due to refusing to talk about the outcome of the referendum. It's clear a significant proportion of the population there (and debatable as to whether is above 50%) wants independence from Spain. The current Spanish constitution appears to have no mechanism for this to be expressed in a legal way.

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At any point in this whole shitshow the Catalan leaders had the choice of not breaking the law. They knew they were breaking the law when they did it. You can argue that it's not fair, that they don't recognise the Spanish law and so on, but that only puts them even more outside the law. As currently the Spanish law is the only one applying there.

The current Spanish constitution has a mechanism for being changed. This whole "we have to do it now or never" is absurd. There was no imminent catastrophe threatening Catalonia or Spain to justify this attitude.

 

[fookthebozos]

Seems like no one wins here. Spain is destabilized and Catalonia is going to be under attack politically and legally.

 

[Deleted member 21431]

The current Spanish constitution has a mechanism for being changed. This whole "we have to do it now or never" is absurd. There was no imminent catastrophe threatening Catalonia or Spain to justify this attitude.

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The only way the constitution gets changed is if the rest of Spain vote to allow it to be changed. The rest of Spain won't do that as it'd effectively mean they give Catalonia the green light to leave and with them goes 25% of the Spanish economy.

 

[Nivash]

Completely unsurprising. They have to press charges, anything else would essentially put the Catalan leaders above the law. The Spanish Government ought to absolve them at a later date as a show of good will if that's in their power, however. But with this...

The Independent is now reporting that Puigdemont has fled the country to Belgiumand is seeking asylum after the Belgian asylum and migration affairs minister said he could apply for it in Belgium.

A number of members of the Catalan government are said to have gone with him. Maybe this should be added to the OP?

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...I'm not sure they deserve it. Cowards. Are these the kind of leaders they want in charge of independence? Catalonia deserves better.

 

[KingSnake]

The only way the constitution gets changed is if the rest of Spain vote to allow it to be changed. The rest of Spain won't do that as it'd effectively mean they give Catalonia the green light to leave and with them goes 25% of the Spanish economy.

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Getting what you want it's not always easy. That's not an excuse for trying to get it through illegal meanings. To get independence by force and breaking the law you either need to fight a war or you need a hell lot of international support. There is practically 0 international support and the current Catalan leaders seems favour a hit and run tactic (if it's confirmed that they ran to Belgium). There was no other outcome possible from this whole set of events. It was very predictable from the moment Rajoy took a very hard stance. A good politician (if Catalonia would have had one) would have realised in that moment that they need regrouping and to try things differently.

 

[infovore]

... The independence movement is completely unprepared for whatever comes next, independence or otherwise.

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The independence movement does seem to have an interesting approach to the necessary negotiations:

- Assume Catalonia can declare independence without Spain cooperating.
- Assume Catalonia can effectively dictate the terms of separation from Spain.
- Assume Catalonia will quickly be recognized as an independent country.
- Assume Catalonia can easily remain a member of the EU, as opposed to having to rejoin from scratch.

None of these are true, and without all of them being true it is very hard to see Catalonia benefiting at all from independence.

Seems like no one wins here. Spain is destabilized and Catalonia is going to be under attack politically and legally.

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Neither side covered themselves in glory in this mess. But if neither Spain in general nor Catalonia in particular win here, there might still be third parties who benefit (or believe they'll benefit) from chaos, and helped cause it.