Gotcha. Hopefully you guys are right on this.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Speedrunner CalebHart42 banned from Twitch for racism.
- Thread starter BigJeffery
- Start date
Gotcha. Hopefully you guys are right on this.
If you consider "not a good look" as dogpiling your definition is fucked.
It's not a good look when someone who you associate with just casually drops the nword in conversation with you. Because no one on this earth should believe this is the first time Caleb has done it, not with the history the man has.
"Not a good look" is not calling for someone's head.
So again, 4 people is dogpiling?
No, the "not a good look" people are not "attempting character assasination" so don't be ridiculous.
Go through the thread and read thise comments for yourself.
4 people. That's it
This I do not believe to be the case, especially when it orbits around an internet personality. Not only do you think that Caleb is smart enough for that, which is an heavily arguable point, you're also assuming that he's socially aware of what he's doing, which is also not something I think of when I think of Caleb. I know many people who overstepped their boundaries with me out of the blue because they thought their idea of being comfortable with me is aligned with mine, when it's not.
Caleb is pushing this shit unto him, you think he didn't react accordingly and that's fine, maybe he thought that wasn't the place, maybe he's not the type of person to raise a stinker about it, but assuming he's comfortable with this type of behaviour definitely feels like a stretch to me. Caleb is the culprit, and it's worth noting Carci didn't answer in kind and remained professional during work.
I never said it was calling for someone's head. I said it's dogpiling.
And as it turned out, Carci was streaming and just trying to get things moving along because Caleb was already late for an event, so he didn't have time to deal with his shit. People were quick to side-eye Carci without any sort of evidence when he is actually very progressive and doesn't tolerate that kind of stuff in his streams at ALL.
Granted, his SJW comment was trashy in and of itself, but he deleted it and explained himself.
It's people making a judgment without evidence.
No, it's literally not that. It's saying "that doesn't look good".
Learn to language before you comment on things like this.
Also admit your mistake, it doesn't mean: character assassination or dog pilling. Don't double down on that nonsense.
Surprisingly, I would have thought your take to be the correct one earlier, but enough people have swung into this thread to corroborate the idea that, at one point in his streaming career, Caleb actually dismissed racist viewers in his stream and called them out. So, he *was* at least smart enough to know what was right from wrong back then -- clearly, his calculus has changed somewhat, but I find it a stretch to assume that Caleb isn't socially aware of what he's doing when he says "Sup n*****." For one, that's not something he has ever said on stream before (to my knowledge), so he's at least aware that it's not okay to do that on Twitch, and there have been enough instances of the usage of the word on the platform that resulted in bans that I'd suspect he got the memo at some point.
I don't think it takes much smarts to figure out how to hide your racism. I'm not accusing Caleb of alt-right diet racism / dog whistling, I'm accusing him of using the N-word around people he trusts not to go behind his back on it.
You're right that it seems clear Carci isn't the kind of person to raise the issue, and I'd have a lot of trouble believing that he is "good" with that kind of language -- rather, I think he, like a lot of people, sees it and moves on. Which is not good, but given the fact that he was streaming at the time I wouldn't argue the point too much -- though there's a fair argument to made about what the truly "professional" response is to that kind of language. I care a lot less about his response in the moment than I do about his responses afterward, which I find are far too critical of people asking for a response and not nearly critical enough of Caleb.
Again, saying something is "not a good look" isn't dogpiling. Dogpiling is what would have happened if those eight (8) posters were also doing what those four (4) posters that Astro pointed out were doing, which is what he was complaining about on Twitter and made that SJW comment (which, coincidentally, is also not a good look).
I would believe this if Caleb did this out of the blue without any previous indication of his attitude/bigotry.
Except there is a catalog of instances of him saying bigoted shit in a way that makes it extremely hard to believe that no one was aware of what he was really like. And yet, people still continued to associate with him without saying a word about it, and are continuing to say just about nothing about it now as well. I do not believe, for even 1 second, that Caleb hasn't said dumb shit like this before to Carci, or anyone really, and that they've all turned a blind eye to it.
You want to prove that you actually do care about racism/sexism/bigotry in your environment? Actually speak up about it when it's someone you personally know. The lengths that streamers will go not to criticize their own says more to me than all the claims of being against intolerance of any kind.
I'm putting forth that it's hypocritical to try and argue how progressive you are when you're extremely unwilling to speak out about it when it directly involves someone you know and by proxy yourself. Carci stated he doesn't "condone" what Caleb did, but is going to put zero effort in speaking out about it. I don't care what Carci's "words" are about the matter, his actions show me he's unwilling to actually put his money where his mouth is, that as long as it's not happening in "his" channel, or as long as it's happening in private, he's content in not speaking out about it, and that's quite frankly bullshit.
I wonder how this all would have played out if Caleb hadn't of revealed his chat. Because every bit of Carci's statement and attitude implies to me that he would've done and said nothing about it, and this to me flies entirely contrary to his otherwise very outwardly progressive look.
Sorry, but while I agree calling this stuff out is important, this specific incident is not one you can point to as showing Carci up.
His use of SJW and the language and tone he took after was a problem (especially as it was directed at Era where he was actually getting more support), but he's apologized for that and, in general, he looks like a decent guy who doesn't stand for this shit in his community.
The only person at real fault here is the piece of shit Caleb.
Last edited:
Hey, let's make something very clear since you're clearly not getting it. The word 'nigger' coming up in some messages between two white people is not normal. At all. People are entirely in the right to be concerned that Carci was a part of it, considering he made no attempt to clarify. A white person has no entitlement to the benefit of the doubt in that situation. If you want to jump through some mental gymnastics to justify that position, be my guest. He could've easily explained what happened without getting needlessly defensive and throwing a shitty rant against everyone but Caleb.
Fortunately he seems to have realized this and deleted part of his ridiculous tweets.
Given what he had to say about Resetera in general, I'd guess that Carci never even read this thread at all. I think it's likely he was just told by people on Twitter or Discord that Resetera was attacking him and took it at face value. He might not have felt the need to investigate and just assumed it's true, because it lines up with what he already thinks about this place.
OP
OP
Getting accused of something you didn't do/being something you're not sucks. Personally I'm willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt if they come off overly defensive under these circumstances, especially if they come back after the fact and apologize for flying the handle. If my life got way more complicated for a few days or my livelihood put in jeopardy because my teammate for a Twitch event was an idiot, I'd be pissed too.
Maybe Carcinogen is a secret racist and he has all sorts of racist conversations in Discord PMs, maybe he's not. I don't see any value in assuming the worst.
Half the time I see ResetERA mentioned on other websites its about gaming news that's breaking, and the other half is making fun of people for being histrionic psychos. If your only exposure to this place are the posts people link to in other threads, you'd assume its user-base is entirely filled with people who data-dive beta builds of games and get upset about doing the dishes.
Oh and he's transphobic too. Because of course this shithead is.
Also on Carci the fact that he more concerned about "SJWs" then someone he knows being a piece of shit tells me everything about what type of person he is.
Also on Carci the fact that he more concerned about "SJWs" then someone he knows being a piece of shit tells me everything about what type of person he is.
Not unlikely. I was looking through some VODs of his and saw a viewer mentioning that Era "trolls" were going to start some shit. If that's going to be the way it's framed, then I suppose I'm not surprised at his defensiveness, but it's still unwise.
I disagree with this.
The language itself is harmful, it props up bigotry and hate and is part of the skill-set of the alt-right and their ilk in framing places like Era as fanatic hive minds and turning those in a more centre position against us.
However, Carci, by his previous actions in managing his community, shows a strong desire to support people who need it.
We have his channel which is supportive of all minorities and calls out hate actively Vs this one incident. So there's more to show he's doing good.
Sure, we can call out his use of SJW. He obviously read that as he retracted it and deleted the tweets and apologized. No one is perfect, and many people are learning.
Carci may very well have only heard about Era, and I'm quite sure most of us have taken third hand info before from our friends etc .. and realized later we we wrong. I can only hope he realizes now after being linked to this thread that this place is not what he assumed.
I'm directly affected by the hate that people like Caleb peddle, and while Carci may not be perfect in his support he does a lot more than most people do
Keep an eye on him, sure, but writing him off for this is too much imo.
Of course, you have to do what you need to.
Last edited:
It should be with the new info (chat logs), but would they ban for something that happened outside of Twitch?
OP
OP
The moment he broadcast the chat log it fell squarely in Twitch's jurisdiction imo. Following that up by suggesting Twitch staff doesn't take racism seriously seems like a guaranteed way to eat a perm.
Even the logs that were dug up post-stream that were not broadcast? Those are the ones I'm talking about.
To make something clear: I have been watching Carci's streams for a while now and i'm big fan of his work, so with that said...
It genuinely worries me that people are more concerned about throwing him over the bus (which btw, is simply not happening and mostly of the thread have been either supportive with his perspective - even before he said anything actually - and others are just worried about not realizing that this is more serious than it looks apparently, for some individuals).
The way people behave in these kinds of extremely sensitive circumstances really shows their real priorities, which scares me the most.
You might not condone what a colleague is saying, or agree with it, but instead of sharing your perspective on the subject, maybe try to show why you shouldn't be associated with that and not go (in a extremely aggressive way) against fans that are simply concerned, instead of someone that hides an extremely offensive and horrible behaviour because you simply...i don't even know why exactly tbh.
That's what i mean about these stressful situations usually revealing a person's priority, which indeed, didn't gave Carci a great look after that.
If you see that as "witch hunting" and "dogpiling", it's kinda worrying. Many of us are just normal folks afraid of normalizing this kind of behaviour, which usually happens so many times in this medium (you see Caleb soon will be back on action and already has a angry mob of fans being supportive of him, even staff members that went for his ban).
It's just scary as hell man, seeing people openly willing to not even wanting to comment or go against this kind of shitty behaviour, that's so problematic.
And that's even considering how much work Carci puts into creating a safe and respectful environment on his streams, which again, is good but nothing more than expected for a progressive person. I don't see the need to apply tunel vision and just focus on your work instead of helping your community to get better as a whole, we need to somehow show that this is not right and we won't accept harrassment in any way. By my standards, it's simply the least you can do.
Shouldn't that be the main focus/prority amongst users and content creators?
Because i don't even know anymore.
Okay Carci. It's good that he realized what he said was wrong.
Caleb and the discord messages above though. A twitch staff and his sponsor thought it was funny?! Horrible.
Caleb and the discord messages above though. A twitch staff and his sponsor thought it was funny?! Horrible.
User Banned (permanent): dismissing racism
Eh I don't really think that was justified, I don't watch his stuff but just because of something he said in a PM doesn't make someone a racist even more so what just looks like a jokey hello to someone else.
To me this whole thing kinda seems like a streamer getting a ban because they accidentally clicked on porn or gore. Just seems kinda pointless even more so since it seems like this is only a 4 day thing?
To me this whole thing kinda seems like a streamer getting a ban because they accidentally clicked on porn or gore. Just seems kinda pointless even more so since it seems like this is only a 4 day thing?
OP
OP
They might not consider the Discord logs where he's being transphobic relevant to this case (the argument could be made that they provide extra context for his initial indiscretion so should be taken into consideration when assigning punishment), but between the initial incident and the followup where he's bragging about how it's totally not a big deal and Twitch/CLG are laughing at it, I really wouldn't be surprised to see him gone forever. If we ever hear anything else about it, it will likely be after Easter weekend.
Something I'm not really informed about: what sort of punishment has Twitch handed out for similar cases in the past? I vaguely remember some woman getting banned for a Transphobic comment earlier this year but I do not remember the details.
FYI you're 100% wrong and you're about to get doggiepiled by people rightfully calling you a moron. Please do me a favor and don't reply to anyone's post or post in this thread any more, period. I really don't think it needs a derailment.
You know, you could actually say something productive instead of insulting me.
Can't say I'm surprised. I stopped following larger streamers years ago because this always ALWAYS happens.
OP
OP
I feel like this just empirically isn't true. Regardless of what viewer base threshold you use to define "larger streamer," the percentage that are publicly racist is significantly smaller than the percentage that isn't. Even ignoring that, do you think there's some relationship between the popularity of a streamer and how racist they are?
There's 8 pages in this thread and it's been stated multiple times why a white person using a racial slur that refers to black people in a casual conversation as a greeting is not okay. It's not even the one that is most commonly used by black people among themselves, it's the hard r.
As a streamer, you're responsible for what shows up on your stream. In this case, it's a bigger issue than accidentally showing porn.
Dude shown himself using racist language on his stream. It's not really the same thing as accidentally clicking on porn or whatever else. Doesn't matter if he's some hardcore racist he still broke Twitch TOS and from what's came out from his discord there's no denying he's an asshole. Not someone worth going to bat for.
Good on Carci.
Caleb on the other hand shows more and more what kind of garbage person he is.
OP
OP
Nothing official, but Caleb no longer has CLG listed as a sponsor on his Twitter, and he is not listed on their site.
OP
OP
Yeah, believe it or not companies don't like it when their employees suggest that they don't care/condone racism.
Maybe CLG would have let it slide if he was at least somewhat apologetic and appeared to genuinely think he screwed up, but he handled this in the worst possible way. I can't imagine the lack of foresight or self-awareness to publicly post that your sponsors and Twitch think a ban for racism is funny.
UPDATE: Ban ends today.
OP
OP
UPDATE: 12 hours ago Caleb posted this on Twitter:
Summary: Unbanned on the 24th (today), claims he used his time off to "talk to a lot of different people" which helped him "learn quite a bit," and made him a "a stronger and better person."
He didn't comment on his CLG sponsorship or whether or not he'll be attending GDQ. Presumably he will be talking about it on today's stream, which if history has taught us anything, will have ten billion concurrent viewers and probably generate thousands of dollars in donation revenue.
Summary: Unbanned on the 24th (today), claims he used his time off to "talk to a lot of different people" which helped him "learn quite a bit," and made him a "a stronger and better person."
He didn't comment on his CLG sponsorship or whether or not he'll be attending GDQ. Presumably he will be talking about it on today's stream, which if history has taught us anything, will have ten billion concurrent viewers and probably generate thousands of dollars in donation revenue.
Can't watch the video but based on your text, I hope he is sincere and starts making some changes. I am skeptical though. The proof will be in his actions. He needs to think about what he says on stream, the type of behavior he is engaging in, and what he tolerates in his chat. If he doesn't fundamentally change and if his chat is still a cesspool then his apology doesn't mean a damn thing.
OP
OP
Don't know him personally, don't watch his streams all that often, but if I had to guess: He's not and he wont. There's never a good time to say the n-word, and I think I'm guilty of giving people the benefit of the doubt too often (I still think Max did nothing wrong), but this is a pretty clear cut case of a racist just being caught. There's no language barrier or performance anxiety mitigating the circumstances. He didn't stumble over his words or mispronounce something or cough between syllables while saying the word vinegar. Based on circumstances it's just a part of his vocabulary.
Appealing to reactionaries seems to be among the best and easiest way to make money. Look at how much that woman who carried a gun to school made.
Last edited:
I want whatever it is that make people suddenly change in a week's time.
OP
OP
Complete moral realignment [Any%]: 5 days.
Glitches used in the run: fooling people into thinking feeling sorry about getting caught is the same as genuine remorse for being a racist.
Twitch management should go full NeoGAF and just stop banning these people if it's going to be for a couple days, drop the pretense
And that's if they even get banned at all. I use to be a big fan of RetroGaijin, but I stopped watching him after he was repeatedly transphobic on stream and his discord. I've stopped watching so many Twitch and youtubers over this shit that I barely have shit to watch anymore. Why do people have to be like this?