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Spent two hours ripping up what I later found out was asbestos floor tile. How fucked am I?
- Thread starter Maligna
- Start date
Yup. The character died of cancer. I'm sure it's unrelated to his asbestos suit. :P
Unlikely. Aspestos fibres are like microscopic javelins. They get into your lungs and stay in. But I wouldn't be too worried only 2 hours of exposure. Go see a doc and see what they say.
You should wear a mask for any type of demolition or involved/invasive construction work ESPECIALLY on older buildings
You should be fine, though. Asbestos risks come from long-term exposure, 2 hours is obviously not "healthy" but you should be fine just don't ever do it again without protection
You should be fine, though. Asbestos risks come from long-term exposure, 2 hours is obviously not "healthy" but you should be fine just don't ever do it again without protection
Well, that damage is done but you should be concerned if any of the dust settled or is shifting around the house causing prolonged exposure.
Asbestos removal companies have to have air monitors for a reason.
They water down the asbestos to settle it and then remove it and the monitors check how much of, if any of the particles are in the air.
If it's more than the amount stated by law they have to filter the air out in the contained area and then test the air again.
Asbestos removal companies have to have air monitors for a reason.
They water down the asbestos to settle it and then remove it and the monitors check how much of, if any of the particles are in the air.
If it's more than the amount stated by law they have to filter the air out in the contained area and then test the air again.
I was gonna say something similar. I heard the fibers are "hooked", so they can get stuck in your lungs. Always a good idea to wear a mask when dealing with particulate stuff. I've gotten really OCD about it lately. My husband likes to do stuff like sanding and wood cutting without wearing a mask and it really grinds my gears.
Age and the dimensions of the tiles are hints that they are likely to be asbestos tiles, but yeah no way of knowing unless you test them.
A regular mask is not enough, you'll still inhale asbestos fibres that get in through the sides.
Most people also don't seem to be aware that washing asbestos contaminated clothes is dangerous. Everything you wear while being around asbestos has to be thrown out.
Just wanted to mention that wearing a traditional mask for wood and tile dust provides little to no safety when it comes to asbestos. You need a HEPA respirator to safely handle asbestos.
I did it a few years ago. The biggest issue is dust particles, but it's minimal unless you're going at it with a floor sander. You probably just saw a lot of built up dust being pounded into the carpet over the 100 years its been glued down.
All I can say, is you'll start breathing much better once that nastiness is cleared out. New flooring makes a world of difference in getting a clean house. Carpet cleaners/machines just can't get that sort of dirt out after all those years.
Sure, you're already dead. But you've been dying since the day you were born.
All I can say, is you'll start breathing much better once that nastiness is cleared out. New flooring makes a world of difference in getting a clean house. Carpet cleaners/machines just can't get that sort of dirt out after all those years.
Sure, you're already dead. But you've been dying since the day you were born.
I mean.. I can recall a number of times I'd not have gone to the doctor until things got worse if I had to pay 20$, because it was just a minor thing.
Talking about these "just to make sure" visits, like the situation OP would be in
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Very little reason to get paranoid OP, but here's some general knowledge:
1. Floor title containing asbestos is typically 1-2% by total volume. If you give the dimensions color and if possible approximate age and/or brand I can probably give you a better answer on your risk.
2. The mastic used to adhere asbestos tile to the floor is generally higher, between 15-85% depending on make. This was generally a black adhesive, so color is a pretty good indicator on this.
3. How you removed the tile and/or mastic are what likely matters the most. Did you use an abrasive power tool or non-powered mechanical tools? Asbestos needs to be made airborne to enter your lungs and typically needs to be broken down substantially on the way there to pass your cilia and enter the lungs.
4. Do you smoke? If so you're roughly 10x more likely to contract an asbestos related illness, as smoking paralyzes the cilia in your throat, letting more and larger fibers pass through.
5. People come into contact with asbestos all the time. If you've lived in a college dorm built pre-1980 you probably lived in a room with asbestos floor and ceiling tiles for example. If you've worked in any older industrial facility (paper mills for example) you've likely had exposure to asbestos insulation which is often in the mid/high 90% for percentage.
6. The kind of asbestos matters. Chrysotile, what was/is generally used in floor tiles and mastic, has often been argued to be far less harmful to humans than crocidolite and other amphiboles, most commonly used for industrial insulation, due to crystalline/fiber shape and structure. Chrysotile based materials have been demonstrated to produce far less of the long javelin/fish hook like fibers that can puncture side walls of your lungs (a "pleural cavity") leading to mesothelioma.
7. If you used power tools in the process and want to feel better about the whole thing:
My credentials for the above: I was a licensed asbestos abatement supervisor for 4 years to pay for college, where I got a B.S. in geology, writing multiple papers specifically on the industrialized use of asbestos. I then worked in special and haz. waste remediation including overseeing the design and monitoring of asbestos removal for an additional 8 years as a professional, with an asbestos inspectors license. I'm a licensed HAZWOPER supervisor and OSHA certified construction industry H&S officer. I am now the environmental manager over two active landfills, both of which are permitted to receive asbestos and have active asbestos receipt protocols. I've let the asbestos certs lapse because I'll be damned before I work directly in that industry again. Its populated with some of the worst people you could ever meet. As such the above does not constitute industry professional advice and is presented without guarantee or assumption of liability.
1. Floor title containing asbestos is typically 1-2% by total volume. If you give the dimensions color and if possible approximate age and/or brand I can probably give you a better answer on your risk.
2. The mastic used to adhere asbestos tile to the floor is generally higher, between 15-85% depending on make. This was generally a black adhesive, so color is a pretty good indicator on this.
3. How you removed the tile and/or mastic are what likely matters the most. Did you use an abrasive power tool or non-powered mechanical tools? Asbestos needs to be made airborne to enter your lungs and typically needs to be broken down substantially on the way there to pass your cilia and enter the lungs.
4. Do you smoke? If so you're roughly 10x more likely to contract an asbestos related illness, as smoking paralyzes the cilia in your throat, letting more and larger fibers pass through.
5. People come into contact with asbestos all the time. If you've lived in a college dorm built pre-1980 you probably lived in a room with asbestos floor and ceiling tiles for example. If you've worked in any older industrial facility (paper mills for example) you've likely had exposure to asbestos insulation which is often in the mid/high 90% for percentage.
6. The kind of asbestos matters. Chrysotile, what was/is generally used in floor tiles and mastic, has often been argued to be far less harmful to humans than crocidolite and other amphiboles, most commonly used for industrial insulation, due to crystalline/fiber shape and structure. Chrysotile based materials have been demonstrated to produce far less of the long javelin/fish hook like fibers that can puncture side walls of your lungs (a "pleural cavity") leading to mesothelioma.
7. If you used power tools in the process and want to feel better about the whole thing:
- get a half face respirator with HEPA cartridges (purple/magenta color code, dust masks are literally just trash people put on their faces for appearances alone), shave any facial hair along the jawline and cheek bones to get a tight seal (bye bye beard), don the mask per instructions then do the following:place hand over exhilation valve (generally the single center port) and breath out like normal, this should "puff" the mask on your face but no air should escape around the sides. Then cover the cartridge air inlets tightly with your palms and breath in, you should get no air and the mask should suck down. That's a "positive/negative pressure check" and should generally be done every time before using a non-powered respirator.
- Set up a HEPA equipped air filter in your room and run it.
- While that is running use some rags and water to wet wipe (not dripping, just modestly damp) your room and as many things as you can that you let within it during the removal. Include window frames, furnace vents, trim, anywhere dust could collect. Also do the new floor if it is a hard material (I think you said it was linoleum, so easy enough). Double bag the rags in a plastic trash bag.
- Before you close that bag take the filters out of the air filter and throw them away. Thoroughly wipe out the air filter with a wet rag as well or throw it away entirely, though the later is probably overly cautious, but hey, peace of mind is what you choose to make it.
My credentials for the above: I was a licensed asbestos abatement supervisor for 4 years to pay for college, where I got a B.S. in geology, writing multiple papers specifically on the industrialized use of asbestos. I then worked in special and haz. waste remediation including overseeing the design and monitoring of asbestos removal for an additional 8 years as a professional, with an asbestos inspectors license. I'm a licensed HAZWOPER supervisor and OSHA certified construction industry H&S officer. I am now the environmental manager over two active landfills, both of which are permitted to receive asbestos and have active asbestos receipt protocols. I've let the asbestos certs lapse because I'll be damned before I work directly in that industry again. Its populated with some of the worst people you could ever meet. As such the above does not constitute industry professional advice and is presented without guarantee or assumption of liability.
a friend of a friend passed away from it early this year. They are not even sure how/where he got exposed to it. I took some floor tile out from my kitchen when I bought my house. I'm worried it might have been asbestos now. I also believe my basements ceiling tile might be asbestos as well. This house was built when they used that crap.
See you in heaven/hell soon OP.
See you in heaven/hell soon OP.
Was thinking this aswell. Use masks, at least you know you're safe.
I'm more concerned over what you left behind OP. Given how this all went down, I don't suppose you wiped everything down with a damp cloth or threw out contaminated clothes? I'm not an expert, but having asbestos dust floating around in your house is a bad time.
Thanks so much for the info!
1) I think the tiles were around 9x9 and they almost looked like they were made from particleboard. They were the same color as a cardboard box. House was built in 1960, but no idea when this tile or the carpet over it went down.
2) Underneath the tile it almost looked like black paper, it would come off in strips. (Not discolored. You could tell this was always black) We couldn't get that up cleanly, so there's lots of it so under the new laminate.
3) When we were rolling up the carpet (which was the messiest part, they were held to the tile by a yellowish glue that had crystallized and that definitely got everywhere) some of the tiles came up on their own. We needed a flat surface to lay the laminate on so we took up the tiles too. Most of them came up in one piece but I'd say half a dozen cracked in a few places. We got them all up by scraping under them with crow bars and lifting them.
4) Don't smoke. No.
If we did contaminate anything with asbestos, it's probably all over the house by now. We moved all the tiles through the house and stored them downstairs for a while. I only was clued in to this possibility 3-4 days later when taking the stuff to the dump as I threw the last tile on the pile.
We left all our clothes hanging in the closet when we worked on the floor and the clothes we wore have already been thrown in the hamper and washed. So likely our entire wardrobe would be contaminated.
Is there anyone I can call that can come in the house take a reading or sample to see if asbestos is present?
Thanks again for your great info.
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This is what mastic (next to 9x9 brown asbestos containing floor tiles) looks like:
That is probably the "black paper" you saw underneath. The photo above is a very light application. Usually its put down thick as shit and makes a black coating that comes up like tar paper.
The glue on top of the tiles was almost certainly just carpeting glue. It isn't good to breathe but it won't cause asbestosis/meso. It gets brittle and extremely friable (breaks down into small airborne particles) but that's more a silicosis/general PM inhalation concern and if you're doing ok now you don't have a ton to worry about for one limited exposure.
So good news: Removing asbestos floor tile with a tile bar or similar (like a crowbar) and not breaking any tiles has been approved in multiple states as a removal method that does not require containment, decon, or respiratory protection. Generally someone would wear a coverall suit and have their mask just to be double safe, but tiles are low enough in total content and come up "whole component" enough to where you have very little to fear here.
Mastic removal is generally done via chemical application because it's a bear to scrape a peel. Unless you put serious effort into trying to abrade the mastic off (i.e. power tools or sanding with your face a few inches from the sand paper) you're very unlikely to have stirred up a meaningful amount of asbestos.
bad news: Yes, if you stirred up a meaningful amount you could have carried material throughout the house to some degree. Yes, if you had done that and now washed your clothes there is an argument to be made that you've contaminated all of your clothes.
Testing: Any local asbestos inspector/contracting group could do it. Depending on where you are relative to your nearest metropolitan area it should cost between a couple hundred dollars to a grand (depends on drive time to you). They'll probably set up some air pumps with filters and run a leaf blower around to stir everything up.
Would I do it? No. If you used bars and non-abrasive methods for removal the chances of there being anything in the air that would be clearly asbestos is remote with floor tile. Floor title is mostly chrysotile, less likely to cause problems than the amphibole group as well. The risk is extremely, extremely remote.
In the end you need to do what you need to do for your peace of mind but I've pulled floor tile in street clothes, it's been between 15-20 years and I don't have asbestosis of meso symptoms and as of my last chest X-Ray (about 5 years ago now, when I still did active site walks on asbestos sites, so not read by a B reader but by the same physician who saw ~300 asbestos worker chest X-Rays a year) there are no signs of issues in my lungs.
As a point of fact to give you some further understanding of risks - I've ripped 95% 'stos industrial insulation and spray on in containments where it looked like it was snowing inside we'd gotten into it so hard. In those cases I would find respirator carts that workers screwed on improperly, so they'd be sitting there with a wide open air port sucking the shit in. I've worked with hardcore smokers who cut slots in their filters for their cigarettes while they worked. I didn't know a one who had an asbestos related lung disease. I worked with more than a few guys who had been pulling asbestos for 15-25 years.
It still happens, don't get me wrong, but it isn't nearly like what it used to be during the production days when thousands of people were being bombarded with the shit and they were putting it in cigarette filters.
You basically bought a lottery ticket with similar odds to the powerball, only the payout here is meso. You could get a similar one any time you sit in front of a bus stop because most of your larger vehicles still use asbestos brakes (ceramic doesn't work nearly as well and turns out people prefer school buses stopping over a few mechanics having a meaningfully increased risk of exposure).
*edit* I would add - you should probably give your house, especially your basement and heating if its pre-1980's a look over for degrading insulation. If so then you probably do want someone to come do a walk through on your house. If you have the urge to get into any other flooring jobs in the future I'd grab a half face respriator, some HEPA carts, and a few paper tyveks. All in for one person it might be $100 and you'll have much greater peace of mind in the future. Plus if you get into doing any drywall work that respirator is a godsend. Dust masks are, in therms of real respiratory exposure, a placebo more than anything else.
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This is what mastic (next to 9x9 brown asbestos containing floor tiles) looks like:
That is probably the "black paper" you saw underneath. The photo above is a very light application. Usually its put down thick as shit and makes a black coating that comes up like tar paper.
The glue on top of the tiles was almost certainly just carpeting glue. It isn't good to breathe but it won't cause asbestosis/meso. It gets brittle and extremely friable (breaks down into small airborne particles) but that's more a silicosis/general PM inhalation concern and if you're doing ok now you don't have a ton to worry about for one limited exposure.
So good news: Removing asbestos floor tile with a tile bar or similar (like a crowbar) and not breaking any tiles has been approved in multiple states as a removal method that does not require containment, decon, or respiratory protection. Generally someone would wear a coverall suit and have their mask just to be double safe, but tiles are low enough in total content and come up "whole component" enough to where you have very little to fear here.
Mastic removal is generally done via chemical application because it's a bear to scrape a peel. Unless you put serious effort into trying to abrade the mastic off (i.e. power tools or sanding with your face a few inches from the sand paper) you're very unlikely to have stirred up a meaningful amount of asbestos.
bad news: Yes, if you stirred up a meaningful amount you could have carried material throughout the house to some degree. Yes, if you had done that and now washed your clothes there is an argument to be made that you've contaminated all of your clothes.
Testing: Any local asbestos inspector/contracting group could do it. Depending on where you are relative to your nearest metropolitan area it should cost between a couple hundred dollars to a grand (depends on drive time to you). They'll probably set up some air pumps with filters and run a leaf blower around to stir everything up.
Would I do it? No. If you used bars and non-abrasive methods for removal the chances of there being anything in the air that would be clearly asbestos is remote with floor tile. Floor title is mostly chrysotile, less likely to cause problems than the amphibole group as well. The risk is extremely, extremely remote.
In the end you need to do what you need to do for your peace of mind but I've pulled floor tile in street clothes, it's been between 15-20 years and I don't have asbestosis of meso symptoms and as of my last chest X-Ray (about 5 years ago now, when I still did active site walks on asbestos sites, so not read by a B reader but by the same physician who saw ~300 asbestos worker chest X-Rays a year) there are no signs of issues in my lungs.
As a point of fact to give you some further understanding of risks - I've ripped 95% 'stos industrial insulation and spray on in containments where it looked like it was snowing inside we'd gotten into it so hard. In those cases I would find respirator carts that workers screwed on improperly, so they'd be sitting there with a wide open air port sucking the shit in. I've worked with hardcore smokers who cut slots in their filters for their cigarettes while they worked. I didn't know a one who had an asbestos related lung disease. I worked with more than a few guys who had been pulling asbestos for 15-25 years.
It still happens, don't get me wrong, but it isn't nearly like what it used to be during the production days when thousands of people were being bombarded with the shit and they were putting it in cigarette filters.
You basically bought a lottery ticket with similar odds to the powerball, only the payout here is meso. You could get a similar one any time you sit in front of a bus stop because most of your larger vehicles still use asbestos brakes (ceramic doesn't work nearly as well and turns out people prefer school buses stopping over a few mechanics having a meaningfully increased risk of exposure).
*edit* I would add - you should probably give your house, especially your basement and heating if its pre-1980's a look over for degrading insulation. If so then you probably do want someone to come do a walk through on your house. If you have the urge to get into any other flooring jobs in the future I'd grab a half face respriator, some HEPA carts, and a few paper tyveks. All in for one person it might be $100 and you'll have much greater peace of mind in the future. Plus if you get into doing any drywall work that respirator is a godsend. Dust masks are, in therms of real respiratory exposure, a placebo more than anything else.
Man. Thank you so much for taking the time for all of this. You're the best. You've made me feel a lot better, but I may still get the test done for complete peace of mind.
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Some of those old comics are nuts. Like the character of "The Whizzer" who got his powers of super speed by receiving a blood transfusion from a Mongoose. Just a regular ass Mongoose.
You were afraid of Asbestos Man but he was the one who saved you. I think we all learned an important lesson about prejudice today.
I swear you can barely read through a single issue of a silver age comic without coming across some mention or application of asbestos.