Spider-Man 2018's webswinging is concerning as a Spider-Man 2 fan

[Shark]

And people who criticised Evolve when it was announced also got "But the E3 impressions" as responses and look how that played out.

I'm not making any claims on wether or not Spider-Man will be a good or bad game. Literally all I'm saying is "But the E3 impressions" has been proven on more than one occasion to be a terrible way of shutting down someone else's subjective criticism.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, people are saying maybe pump the brakes on talking in absolutes or about how you know you will dislike how a mechanic is in the game before ever playing it.

If someone does a cake tasting and likes it, I'm going to hold their opinion in higher regard than the person who says they don't like the cake before they even try it. I acknowledge the possibility I could not like it and that the person who never tried it could be 'right' as well but I'm still going to trust the first hand experience more every time. That's a baseline of expectations I would expect people on here to have. Clearly, that's not the case for many.

 

[Lady Bow]

I mean...

Click to shrink...

I'm not seeing the "gotcha" here.

 

[A Syrian Communist]

you will reach your maximum swinging speed if you dive. That speed is upgrade-able to a point.

While the game is physics- and momentum- based, it's not a pure physics or momentum simulation.

Click to shrink...

Thanks for laying that out. Explains what's going on in the gifs.

Are the demos set to the lowest speed setting or somewhere in the middle?

 

[Cokie Bear]

Yeah, people are saying maybe pump the brakes on talking in absolutes or about how you know you will dislike how a mechanic is in the game before ever playing it.

Click to shrink...

Why though? I don't see you or anyone else calling out the "Day 1 for me posters" and telling them to pump the brakes and to stop talking in absolutes. I'm excited for this game but as with any game, it feels like people get caught up in pre-release hype and tell people who aren't as excited to wait until they play it before forming an opinion, while they themselves are forming an opinion without having played it.

If someone created a thread saying they thought the web swinging looked perfect, would you be telling them to "pump the breaks"?

 

[Deleted member 17207]

That gif alone shows the problem though.

Looks like if you jump off the tallest building in NYC or if you jump off a 4 story building, your swing speed will be exactly the same. There's no conservation of momentum.

Click to shrink...

How is anyone still disputing this? It's right fucking here.

 

[Shark]

Exposure for said issue in gifs? What do impressions have to do with that anyway? I was hoping Insomniac might take something away from this thread and the one on reddit if you want the truth.

Click to shrink...

Take away what exactly? Did you have dreams that their entire physics system was going to change based on a thread on this forum less than 2 months from release date? What?

I don't think anyone is more aware than Insomniac that people consider Spider-Man 2 an unapproachable, perfect and never to be surpassed experience by a segment of the people potentially interested in a new Spider-Game.

 

[Kyuuji]

Why though? I don't see you or anyone else calling out the "Day 1 for me posters" and telling them to pump the brakes and to stop talking in absolutes.

Click to shrink...

Likely because they're not looking to try and alter the game based on a few gifs and a skewed perception of how momentum works.

 

[Deleted member 32679]

I'm not seeing the "gotcha" here.

Click to shrink...

you will reach your maximum swinging speed if you dive. That speed is upgrade-able to a point.

While the game is physics- and momentum- based, it's not a pure physics or momentum simulation.

Click to shrink...

What's your take on the devs comment?

 

[Cokie Bear]

Likely because they're not looking to try and alter the game based on a few gifs.

Click to shrink...

They're still forming an opinion on the game without playing it, which apparently isn't allowed. Again, I'm excited for the game, I just hate how dismissive people get when someone criticises a game they're looking forward to.

 

[Equanimity]

It still looks off. It's like the momentum slows down the moment the swing initiates. It looks better than the gif in the OP but it still doesn't feel right.

Click to shrink...

It looks "off" because it's not janky like Spider-Man 2. Spider-Man lifts his body and changes direction after the swing initiates.

 

[Electro]

Only if you ignore the poster in this thread who played the game and shares OPs opinion on this.

Click to shrink...

Sry did not read all postings but wow, one user here who complains with the OPs opinion..
But saw one from another user here and he means it is playing fantastic.

And when I look at Evolve reviews, the game seems to have typically mp game problems.
Like bad matchmaking, less content and bad dlc policy.

Spider Man could have a bad story or a very short campaign but at the moment, everything looks fine.

 

[Falconbox]

So you want to swing at 250km/h? That sounds like fun

Click to shrink...

Yes, that actually does sound fun. It's closer to what we got with the older game at least.

 

[8byte]

They're still forming an opinion on the game without playing it, which apparently isn't allowed. Again, I'm excited for the game, I just hate how dismissive people get when someone criticises a game they're looking forward to.

Click to shrink...

I think people are dismissive because of the word "concern". The swinging isn't bad, it just isn't a straight duplicate of SM2. However, it's literally improved in every other area. Combat is better, design is better, city is dense and packed with people and cars, animation is better...so the idea that the swinging being just a tad different from SM2 is "cause for concern" immediately makes a lot of people write it off, because it seems so one note.

It's not much different from single issue voting. It's easy to dismiss the opinion of someone who votes for a candidate based on one single issue they are passionate about, while writing off everything else surrounding that candidate. If you do that, you're likely to miss out on a better product or choice.

 

[Cokie Bear]

Sry did not read all postings but wow, one user here who complains with the OPs opinion..
But saw one from another user here and he means it is playing fantastic.
.

Click to shrink...

So now you're dismissing that persons opinion too, so I guess it doesn't really matter to you if they've played the game or not.

 

[Horror]

It looks "off" because it's not janky like Spider-Man 2. Spider-Man lifts his body and changes direction after the swing initiates.

Click to shrink...

On the dive, he lifts his body and changes direction at the same time he flings his arm out to fire a web.

 

[Lady Bow]

Did you have dreams that their entire physics system was going to change based on a thread on this forum less than 2 months from release date? What?

Click to shrink...

Let's take Spider-Man 2 out of the equation. It looks bad to me in general how the momentum gets cut instead of being transferred. That is something that can be tweaked fast since they have a constraint/condition on it in the first place. I want the game to be better than it already is.

What's your take on the devs comment?

Click to shrink...

Sounds promising. I'd like to see what he's talking about in motion though.

The comment about how they're noting trying to be a physics or momentum simulation irks me though since not even Spider-Man 2 was purely aiming for that.

 

[Cokie Bear]

I think people are dismissive because of the word "concern". The swinging isn't bad, it just isn't a straight duplicate of SM2. However, it's literally improved in every other area. Combat is better, design is better, city is dense and packed with people and cars, animation is better...so the idea that the swinging being just a tad different from SM2 is "cause for concern" immediately makes a lot of people write it off, because it seems so one note.

It's not much different from single issue voting. It's easy to dismiss the opinion of someone who votes for a candidate based on one single issue they are passionate about, while writing off everything else surrounding that candidate. If you do that, you're likely to miss out on a better product or choice.

Click to shrink...

Who's writing it off though? Even the OP says it still looks fantastic.

 

[Trekkie]

the more i see of this game the less hyped i am for it


will most likely still buy it first day tho

 

[senj]

Based on not having played Spider-Man 2, the gifs of its swinging look janky as shit. And woof @ that wall-crawling.

Now, apparently those of you who have played it think it is god-tier web-swinging, so what I'm guessing is going on here is that how something feels to play is different than how it looks in a gif when you've never controlled it yourself.

Food for thought.

 

[Bjones]

I am more worried about the Batman style combat than swinging.

 

[xxracerxx]

I am more worried about the Batman style combat than swinging.

Click to shrink...

Why's that?

 

[Shark]

Why though? I don't see you or anyone else calling out the "Day 1 for me posters" and telling them to pump the brakes and to stop talking in absolutes. I'm excited for this game but as with any game, it feels like people get caught up in pre-release hype and tell people who aren't as excited to wait until they play it before forming an opinion, while they themselves are forming an opinion without having played it.

If someone created a thread saying they thought the web swinging looked perfect, would you be telling them to "pump the breaks"?

Click to shrink...

Because I don't care if people get excited or purchase something. That's a big difference from claiming something is or isn't like something that has come before and that it is now concerning even though we have first hand accounts of the game feeling and controlling really well.

Saying the web swinging is 'perfect' without having played it is equally silly but at least it would be backed up by a litany of first hand experiences. We go through this 'concern' song and dance around this time for almost every AAA game and it's super old. Especially when the OP even admits they don't really care to have their opinion changed.

 

[CloseTalker]

I think people are dismissive because of the word "concern". The swinging isn't bad, it just isn't a straight duplicate of SM2. However, it's literally improved in every other area. Combat is better, design is better, city is dense and packed with people and cars, animation is better...so the idea that the swinging being just a tad different from SM2 is "cause for concern" immediately makes a lot of people write it off, because it seems so one note.

Click to shrink...

This is a good point, and probably illustrates why a lot of people (myself included) are so frustrated with nit picking like this.

People forget that when you take away the swinging, what you're left with in SM2 is a truly, very, extremely mediocre game. Poor combat, poor missions design, and poor side quests. The only reason the side activities in SM2 were palatable at all is because you got to them by swinging. Swinging is the only thing that game got right.

And I'm not even convinced this game has worse swinging lol, I think it looks great, it's just different because they're focusing on different things. But people holding SM2 up to this standard is kind of insane.

 

[Loanshark]

I really hope this game avoids the fate of the Assassins creed franchise, which initially had traversal and parkour as big selling points. But since the system was basically automatic and there was no real way to fail, the excitement and thrill faded quickly and it just became a way to get from point A to point B. Personally, I find it really hard to stay engaged in situations like that, when it can be done while on auto-pilot. Hopefully Spider-man can avoid that fate, cause it would be a real tragedy if web swining, one of the most thrilling traversal methods ever got stale after a few hours.

 

[Kyuuji]

Based on not having played Spider-Man 2, the gifs of its swinging look janky as shit. And woof @ that wall-crawling.
Now, apparently those of you who have played it think it is god-tier web-swinging, so what I'm guessing is going on here is that how something feels to play is different than how it looks in a gif when you've never controlled it yourself.

Click to shrink...

 

[Astronut325]

Likely because they're not looking to try and alter the game based on a few gifs and a skewed perception of how momentum works.

Click to shrink...

Edit:
This too:

Based on not having played Spider-Man 2, the gifs of its swinging look janky as shit. And woof @ that wall-crawling.

Now, apparently those of you who have played it think it is god-tier web-swinging, so what I'm guessing is going on here is that how something feels to play is different than how it looks in a gif when you've never controlled it yourself.

Food for thought.

Click to shrink...

 

[Bjones]

Why's that?

Click to shrink...

Im not a fan. They are like just fillers made to waste time. The bouncing back and forth between enemies with actual very little control besides a slightly more interactive qte " oh no better press y now!" I literal quit halfway through Arkham knight because of extreme burn out to that fighting system. Only to soldier through it months later.

 

[KillingJoke]

So am i the only one who thinks that SM2 gif looks like shit? Mid way through he literally ziplines to the next building as if he's being shot out of a canon. There's no weight to it at all. I'm sure it plays fine, but the new one looks leagues better.

 

[Shark]

Let's take Spider-Man 2 out of the equation. It looks bad to me in general how the momentum gets cut instead of being transferred. That is something that can be tweaked fast since they have a constraint/condition on it in the first place. I want the game to be better than it already is.

Click to shrink...

Note how you say 'looks' and then say you want it to be better than it is (again, you haven't played it) just because of your perception. You seem to have a weird sense of self-importance to think that an enormous AAA game needs to be or would be changed because of how you perceive it. When did this 'demand a game cater to me'-thing actually become a viewpoint worth entertaining?

 

[Electro]

So now you're dismissing that persons opinion too, so I guess it doesn't really matter to you if they've played the game or not.

Click to shrink...

It is only one opinion and many others are very positive.

That matters for me.

 

[TheConfidenceMan]

Not gonna lie the way the swinging and traversal looks in general is making this game a pass for me. There are times it looks right like in these quick gif cuts, but the more you watch there's just some weird things going on with how he moves and transitions. Maybe it's done for accessibility reasons but I wish there was something like a no-assist option.

 

[Animal Liberation Ⓥ]

Based on not having played Spider-Man 2, the gifs of its swinging look janky as shit. And woof @ that wall-crawling.

Now, apparently those of you who have played it think it is god-tier web-swinging, so what I'm guessing is going on here is that how something feels to play is different than how it looks in a gif when you've never controlled it yourself.

Food for thought.

Click to shrink...

And we have come full circle, really.

 

[Cokie Bear]

It is only one opinion and many others are very positive.

That matters for me.

Click to shrink...

But it doesn't matter to everyone, which is why "well everyone else likes it" is such a pointless response to a persons subjective criticism.

 

[Kyuuji]

Why do people keep acting like they want a 'no-assist' or a 'less casual' version when they actually want 100% of momentum to be magically conserved and put into a swing even if made at a 90 degree angle right above a rooftop?

Surely that's the less skillful version if anything.

 

[Nymphae]

I don't think anyone is more aware than Insomniac that people consider Spider-Man 2 an unapproachable, perfect and never to be surpassed experience by a segment of the people potentially interested in a new Spider-Game.

Click to shrink...

I feel like this is a gaming myth lol. I've never seen anyone say 2 was perfect and cannot be improved upon, I'm one of it's biggest cheerleaders and the game was clearly flawed as hell.

I believe that the issue is simply that SM2 is one of the only SM games to heavily prioritize momentum. All of the other ones that I've played didn't retain the system which allowed you to build speed with the in game physics, and up your top speed by boosting out of swings.

Every single one of them plays awesomely (Web of Shadows being a close second in terms of swinging, as a game it's far better than 2), but they lost that one little thing which made the swinging a game in and of itself. I can't tell you how much time I spent in 2 just trying to nail perfect arcs and boost out of swings as fast as I could, just moving from one end of the city to the other, and back again, because the mechanics themselves were fun to play with. No other SM game has cared about this to the degree that the devs did with 2.

It's not that 2 was an untouchable masterpiece, it's just that none of the other ones have even tried to do momentum based systems in a similar manner.

 

[jstevenson]

I really hope this game avoids the fate of the Assassins creed franchise, which initially had traversal and parkour as big selling points. But since the system was basically automatic and there was no real way to fail, the excitement and thrill faded quickly and it just became a way to get from point A to point B. Personally, I find it really hard to stay engaged in situations like that, when it can be done while on auto-pilot. Hopefully Spider-man can avoid that fate, cause it would be a real tragedy if web swining, one of the most thrilling traversal methods ever got stale after a few hours.

Click to shrink...

I have played this game multiple times, hundreds of hours, and the web-swinging doesn't get old.

 

[Lady Bow]

Note how you say 'looks' and then say you want it to be better than it is (again, you haven't played it) just because of your perception. You seem to have a weird sense of self-importance to think that an enormous AAA game needs to be or would be changed because of how you perceive it. When did this 'demand a game cater to me'-thing actually become a viewpoint worth entertaining?

Click to shrink...

Jesus you're really using the magnifying scope on something so trivial? Of course I'm gonna say "looks" when I haven't played the game yet. No shit. I'm not demanding anything either, it's just food for though for Insomniac whether they want to make tweaks or not. Clearly I'm not the only one in this thread (or reddit) with this opinion. I'll probably still get the game regardless because it looks fun.

 

[Equanimity]

On the dive, he lifts his body and changes direction at the same time he flings his arm out to fire a web.

Click to shrink...

The animation most likely kicks in as soon as the player holds the R2 button.

 

[xxracerxx]

Im not a fan. They are like just fillers made to waste time. The bouncing back and forth between enemies with actual very little control besides a slightly more interactive qte " oh no better press y now!" I literal quit halfway through Arkham knight because of extreme burn out to that fighting system. Only to soldier through it months later.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, if you don't like it in Arkham you will probably not like it here. I thought you meant more along the lines of technical issues, not personal preference.

 

[Deleted member 15538]

So a lame arkham copy that can't live up to neversoft PS1 movement?

 

[Patitoloco]

I have played this game multiple times, hundreds of hours, and the web-swinging doesn't get old.

Click to shrink...

Maaaaan, I would give half my organs to be you for a day or two lol

 

[NotLiquid]

It looks "off" because it's not janky like Spider-Man 2. Spider-Man lifts his body and changes direction after the swing initiates.

Click to shrink...

Nah. It looks off to me because it doesn't look as fast as it should be. You can call it janky if you want but despite the web swinging itself looking amazing, the thrill of jumping from a 40ft tall building seems muted. I can live with it, but I can't say I particularly like it. Hopefully the full game ends up better in that regard.

 

[Loanshark]

I have played this game multiple times, hundreds of hours, and the web-swinging doesn't get old.

Click to shrink...

Sweet. Are there a lot of web-swinging related unlockable upgrades/abilities that werent present in the E3 demos?

 

[Daniel Westlake]

Exposure for said issue in gifs? What do impressions have to do with that anyway? I was hoping Insomniac might take something away from this thread and the one on reddit if you want the truth.

Click to shrink...

Take away what? Information from someone who hasn't touched the game and is criticizing the web swinging from a random assortment of gifs? There's no actionable value to this thread.

 

[Electro]

But it doesn't matter to everyone, which is why "well everyone else likes it" is such a pointless response to a persons subjective criticism.

Click to shrink...

I only wrote that there are mostly positive impressions from people who played it.
And that counts more than the opinion from people who never played the game.

Nothing more.

And you came with Evolve that had at launch bad matchmaking, less content and a brazen dlc policy.
Weird comparsion...

 

[Bunta]

I really don't understand where the automatic comments come from when it comes to web swinging.

 

[Ploid 6.0]

Maaaaan, I would give half my organs to be you for a day or two lol

Click to shrink...

I think you'd appreciate a finished product instead of playing it so much by the time it's done that you may end up never playing the finished version more than one time, or it ends up feeling like work even if you're playing it at home.

 

[Cokie Bear]

I only wrote that there are mostly positive impressions from people who played it.
And that counts more that the opinion from people who never played the game.

Nothing ,ore.

And you came with Evolve that had at launch bad matchmaking, less content and a brazen dlc policy.....

Click to shrink...

Right, so the final game didn't live up to the first impressions. So saying "well E3 people like it" is a bad response to someone's subjective criticism.

Evolve was just one example too, it's very common for a game to come out of E3 with good impressions but to be poorly received after release. Again, not saying that's going to be the case with Spider-Man, just that it's a terrible counter point.

 

[Shark]

Jesus you're really using the magnifying scope on something so trivial? Of course I'm gonna say "looks" when I haven't played the game yet. No shit. I'm not demanding anything either, it's just food for though for Insomniac whether they want to make tweaks or not. Clearly I'm not the only one in this thread (or reddit) with this opinion. I'll probably still get the game regardless because it looks fun.

Click to shrink...

How is it trivial? It's the very basis of this thread's existence: your perception of something you've never played not being as good as something you played 14 years ago.

Saying this thread is potential 'food for thought' (implying Spider-Man 2's swinging hasn't been brought up ad nauseam since the very first time the game was revealed) to devs weeks before their game ships doesn't actually help your position btw.

 

[Lady Bow]

Take away what?

Click to shrink...

The OP.

Information from someone who hasn't touched the game and is criticizing the web swinging from a random assortment of gifs?

Click to shrink...

Yes. Exactly. I'm sure those 'random' gifs are flukes too and the same behavior doesn't happen in trailers.

There's no actionable value to this thread.

Click to shrink...