Spider-Man 2018's webswinging is concerning as a Spider-Man 2 fan

8byte

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,514
Kansas
Who’s writing it off though? Even the OP says it still looks fantastic.
I'm just saying why people are likely responding the way they do (based on the title and meat of the content in the OP). It *looks* like the OP isn't very excited for it based on the majority of the post, the one sentence at the end (which most people probably missed since it's wedged between gifs) really doesn't negate that response for a lot of people, I'd assume.

Im not a fan. They are like just fillers made to waste time. The bouncing back and forth between enemies with actual very little control besides a slightly more interactive qte “ oh no better press y now!” I literal quit halfway through Arkham knight because of extreme burn out to that fighting system. Only to soldier through it months later.
This is a fair criticism, though I did find myself having considerably more fun in Spider-Man with combat, just because of the speed and acrobatics. Zipping around, swinging, and using gadgets with combat feels a bit more fresh than most of the videos will lead you to believe. Most people playing it *are* playing it like Arkham, but there is a LOT more you can do that a lot of people playing simply didn't do (because their playtime was limited so obviously experimentation isn't really there).

If there's one thing that makes me think I'll wear out on combat, it's the "swinging something over head' animation. It happens for more objects than it should, and there isn't a lot of variation in how you interact with those environmental "weapons".

So a lame arkham copy that can't live up to neversoft PS1 movement?
Is this a sarcastic post?
 

Yasuke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,627
Why though? I don’t see you or anyone else calling out the “Day 1 for me posters” and telling them to pump the brakes and to stop talking in absolutes.
Probably because at least they’re expectations are supported by people who’ve actually played the game and given their thoughts on it.

The opposite party is doing something else entirely.
 

Interficium

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,569
Y'all really can have meltdowns over anything huh.

There's really posts in here about the "mainstream media" pulling the wool over gamers eyes regarding the web swinging in this game, whew.
 

Spinluck

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
9,504
Illinois
I feel "physics based" in a lot of cases is just a round about way of saying,"I don't like this". Spider-Man 2018 is very much physics based, just not like old one. Insomniac directly addressed this in interviews. They don't want Spidey smashing into buildings and the like.
Yet we still get threads on this, and anyone saying it's not a big deal is being "defensive" lol.

It's big deal if you were expecting it to go in the direction of Spider-Man 2's traversal which it's not.

They want to avoid the clunkiness and garbage camera.
 

Electro

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,899
Vienna
Right, so the final game didn’t live up to the first impressions. So saying “well E3 people like it” is a bad response to someone’s subjective criticism.
But what has a mp game with less content etc to do with Spider Man ?

This is a sinle player only game and Evolves problems could not happen.
Maybe it has a bad story/writing or the missions are repetive but gameplay wise, all seems to be fine.

Or what else could happen to Spider Man for a drastic opinion change ?

And I am sure many liked Evolve because beside the content problems it seems to be a good game.
 
OP
OP
Lady Bow

Lady Bow

Member
Nov 30, 2017
7,562
Again, you're going guns blazing. I was talking about you going after my choice of words as trivial.
your perception of something you've never played not being as good as something you played 14 years ago.
Doesn't take a controller in the hand to notice somethings are missing the mark. Devs take feedback to heart from trailers/footage all the time btw. Most recent example is Spyro Reignited.

Saying this thread is potential 'food for thought' (implying Spider-Man 2's swinging hasn't been brought up ad nauseam since the very first time the game was revealed) to devs weeks before their game ships doesn't actually help your position btw.
Agree to disagree.
 

Euler007

Member
Jan 10, 2018
1,542
The emotion level in this thread is higher than the etcetera thread about separating children from their parents.
 

GIANKRATOS

Member
Oct 26, 2017
611
I think after rewatching the gifs that there are (imo) two things that make people perceive something wrong with the momentum here, the visual effects used to make the descent seem faster during the free falling suddenly disappear as soon as you start to swing, and the camera that zooms out in the same moment.
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,848
My knee-jerk reactions to seeing footage have been similar, but I've consistently heard enthusiastic, positive reactions from people who had hands-on with it. I'm gonna take that at face value.

I bet that if this was multi platform everyone and their mom would be criticizing the web swinging.
It may just be as simple as it being fun to play, in person. That's what I'm hoping, anyway. This team has done such cool things with traversal in the past that I think they've earned the benefit of the doubt.
 

8byte

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,514
Kansas
Doesn't take a controller in the hand to notice somethings are missing the mark. Devs take feedback to heart from trailers/footage all the time btw. Most recent example is Spyro Reignited.
I'll say it again, but the swinging feels very much like a conscious and clear design choice, not an oversight. It isn't changing. SM2 swinging would be a nightmare in this dense city with considerably more complex geometry, not to mention the chase scenes (cars, enemies, helicopters) simply would be much more frustrating with SM2 physics based swinging. They want to maintain "regular" speed (it does vary) so that predictability and control are both at the top of the priority list.

So while I think it's genuinely understandable that you would prefer a more physics based swinging system, it's exceptionally unrealistic to expect them to change it this late in the game when they've literally designed so many different encounters specifically around the way their swinging works.
 

LewieP

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,841
Yet we still get threads on this, and anyone saying it's not a big deal is being "defensive" lol.

It's big deal if you were expecting it to go in the direction of Spider-Man 2's traversal which it's not.

They want to avoid the clunkiness and garbage camera.
I don't want them to remake SM2, I want them to make a new game, that is more polished and has a better camera.

I'd also like there to be more of an emphasis on conservation of momentum than is shown in these gifs.

Because I want to play a game where I get to feel like Spider-Man, and conservation of momentum is a huge part of that.

I still think the game looks great, but I have a degree of concern about this aspect.
 

Jazar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
443
South Florida
This topic isn't about how good or bad a game Spider-Man 2 is. That's not the point. The graphics, camera, combat, story, etc has nothing to do with this topic. The point is that game has always had the best web slinging mechanic / simulation. It rewarded skill with a exhilarating flow and speed that has yet to be matched.

It seems that this new game - while being exciting, gorgeous, with great combat etc and yes fun swinging - looks like it's backing away from some of the momentum / skill based slinging that SM2 did. It's sacrificing simulation / skill in favor of looking like a grown ass skilled Spider-Man. So it automates some of the slinging behind the scenes and you don't hit the ground or the side of a building like a fool (something you can easily do in SM2). That's entirely their decision. A bummer for those of us who enjoyed the skilled, risk/reward swinging in SM2 but what can you do.

This isn't nitpicking. That's like saying any complaints about the wave physics in Wave Race is nitpicking. Spider-Man swings. That's what you're going to want to do 80% of the time and the better a swinging gameplay mechanic the game has the better.
 

Spinluck

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
9,504
Illinois
I bet that if this was multi platform everyone and their mom would be criticizing the web swinging.
What does that have to do with anything? This seems like unnecessary console war baiting.

Do you think the swinging is bad or not? The platform doesn't apply here.

It is being incessantly compared to a 14 year old game, and being kind of unfairly nitpicked apart for approaching a key mechanic much differently. All the while, no one here has touched the game.
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
10,305
It seems that this new game - while being exciting, gorgeous, with great combat etc and yes fun swinging - looks like it's backing away from some of the momentum / skill based slinging that SM2 did. It's sacrificing simulation / skill in favor of looking like a grown ass skilled Spider-Man. So it automates some of the slinging behind the scenes and you don't hit the ground or the side of a building like a fool (something you can easily do in SM2). That's entirely their decision. A bummer for those of us who enjoyed the skilled, risk/reward swinging in SM2 but what can you do.
Yet people are complaining that momentum isn't 100% transferred on the gif in the OP despite initiating a swing a few feet above a rooftop, following a long drop.

Which is the exact opposite of what you're saying about skill or simulation. The overwhelming issue that people have is that speed and momentum isn't magically conserved in totality. Which is as far away from skilful as you could get.
 

Mubrik_

Member
Dec 7, 2017
428
One of my favorites things to do in Spider-Man 2 the video game was climbing the Empire State Building and jumping off to plummet towards the earth, and then at the last second, shooting a web right before hitting the ground, giving you a whiplash sort of effect and violently shooting you with speed/momentum. Unfortunately it seems a lot of Spider-Man's swinging is canned/animation-based instead of physics-based as shown by the gif below. The other thing that is annoying is that Spider-Man starts arcing before a web even attaches to a building. (at the same time the game is artificially slowing you down)







Don't get me wrong, the game still looks fantastic as a whole and the way Spider-Man does contextual animations while swinging looks flashy and great.

I just wish they opted for a more physics-based route and added an advanced swinging mode or something for fans looking for a more skill-based swinging system that did less on faking speed. I doubt they're going to make any major changes to the systems since the game is close to going gold but we'll see.
Yeah. I'm trying to get from one point to another point as quickly as possible....its a big city....
I'm glad they went with what they did.

Maybe a challenge mode from point a to point b time trial can incorporate the system you want.
 

Spinluck

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
9,504
Illinois
I don't want them to remake SM2, I want them to make a new game, that is more polished and has a better camera.

I'd also like there to be more of an emphasis on conservation of momentum than is shown in these gifs.

Because I want to play a game where I get to feel like Spider-Man, and conservation of momentum is a huge part of that.

I still think the game looks great, but I have a degree of concern about this aspect.
I'm there with you, momentum is really the best thing about SM2's swinging. Other than that, it didn't really feel much like my idea of Spider-Man at all. Combat was jank, missions were crazy repetitive, and it has aged into one of the weaker open world games of that gen. There are quirks about it that are pretty likable though.

Spidey should move more gracefully and effortlessly than any other hero, not look stiff and lifeless. Albeit, there were probably hardware limitations at the time.

It just seems that Insomniac is doing something special here that seems to be completely overshadowed when this conversation comes up.

They have went over why they went in this direction instead of the pendulum route multiple times. But no one seems to acknowledge it.
 

Iva Demilcol

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,435
Iwatodai Dorm
My knee-jerk reactions to seeing footage have been similar, but I've consistently heard enthusiastic, positive reactions from people who had hands-on with it. I'm gonna take that at face value.



It may just be as simple as it being fun to play, in person. That's what I'm hoping, anyway. This team has done such cool things with traversal in the past that I think they've earned the benefit of the doubt.

Oh, I know, I’ve played Sunset Overdrive so I’m not surprised that they were chosen to make a Spider-Man game. I preordered it more than a year ago because of the very first trailer but allow me to be a little bit cynical here: suddenly GoT is the best samurai game ever, the best Fromsoft’s Souls games are Bloodborne and Demon’s Souls, a few hours before Sony’s press conference people were talking about how Sony was going to top MS’s... I’m not making that up, you can read all those commments in the E3 threads. So let me lol a little.
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,978
London
physics-based as shown by the gif below.

Where are the physics in the PS2 Spider-Man? It’s just a janky thrust.

I’m not sure why you’ve posted an offscreen gif of Spider-Man when there’s plenty of direct feed footage. That said, your gif does showcase why your argument is not a reasonable one. The player changes direction during his dive and initiates a swing roughly a metre away from the rooftop, and the result is in front of you.
 

Jazar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
443
South Florida
Yet people are complaining that momentum isn't 100% transferred on the gif in the OP despite initiating a swing a few feet above a rooftop, following a long drop.

Which is the exact opposite of what you're saying about skill or simulation. The overwhelming issue that people have is that speed and momentum isn't magically conserved in totality.
That is what I'm saying. Spider-Man 2018 is not going to take your terminal velocity and let you slingshot straight into a wall or ground or loop-de-loop around like SM2 would have done if you lacked the skill to keep the flow going forward. S-M 2018 will take your fall then swing forward into the city like a skilled Spider-Man would do.
 

xxracerxx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,900
Oh, I know, I’ve played Sunset Overdrive so I’m not surprised that they were chosen to make a Spider-Man game. I preordered it more than a year ago because of the very first trailer but allow me to be a little bit cynical here: suddenly GoT is the best samurai game ever, the best Fromsoft’s Souls games are Bloodborne and Demon’s Souls, a few hours before Sony’s press conference people were talking about how Sony was going to top MS’s... I’m not making that up, you can read all those commments in the E3 threads. So let me lol a little.
*tiny violin*
 

Weltall Zero

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,237
Madrid
Yet people are complaining that momentum isn't 100% transferred on the gif in the OP despite initiating a swing a few feet above a rooftop, following a long drop.

Which is the exact opposite of what you're saying about skill or simulation. The overwhelming issue that people have is that speed and momentum isn't magically conserved in totality. Which is as far away from skilful as you could get.
Please elaborate on this "magically" thing.

Yeah. I'm trying to get from one point to another point as quickly as possible....its a big city....
I'm glad they went with what they did.
You want to move as quickly as possible, so you're glad you don't move faster out of a long dive.

Makes sense.
 

DMVfan123

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,795
Virginia
Oh, I know, I’ve played Sunset Overdrive so I’m not surprised that they were chosen to make a Spider-Man game. I preordered it more than a year ago because of the very first trailer but allow me to be a little bit cynical here: suddenly GoT is the best samurai game ever, the best Fromsoft’s Souls games are Bloodborne and Demon’s Souls, a few hours before Sony’s press conference people were talking about how Sony was going to top MS’s... I’m not making that up, you can read all those commments in the E3 threads. So let me lol a little.
SonyEra, amirite?
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
10,305
  • Long drop
  • Initiates swing with a large amount of space underneath
  • Long drop
  • Initiates swing about 5 feet above a rooftop

Yet people are somehow wondering why he suddenly jolts or momentum isn't completely conserved?
 

Dot-N-Run

Member
Oct 27, 2017
378
In case anyone is curious how it looked/played beyond some small gifs, here's a good video that showcases the swinging in Spider-Man 2, nothing more and nothing less.

 
Oct 27, 2017
5,767
I bet that if this was multi platform everyone and their mom would be criticizing the web swinging.
Oh, I know, I’ve played Sunset Overdrive so I’m not surprised that they were chosen to make a Spider-Man game. I preordered it more than a year ago because of the very first trailer but allow me to be a little bit cynical here: suddenly GoT is the best samurai game ever, the best Fromsoft’s Souls games are Bloodborne and Demon’s Souls, a few hours before Sony’s press conference people were talking about how Sony was going to top MS’s... I’m not making that up, you can read all those commments in the E3 threads. So let me lol a little.
You're on a roll, lol.
 

8byte

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,514
Kansas
To everyone who is really convinced this is going somewhere: You can ask Insomniac in like two hours on their Twitch Stream why they went this direction, instead of a physics based direction.

Hell I'll probably ask and write it back here for you all so this thread can finally end and stop going in these absolutely pointless circles.
 

DiableJambe11

Member
Jun 1, 2018
88
The only reason it looks like he’s slowing down is because you’re comparing it to SpiderMan 2 which has terrible physics. In the gif for 2 you can clearly see his upward swing is faster than his fall which is actually the exact opposite of how physics works. You are going to lose a tiny bit of momentum on the upward swing because of a thing called gravity. In the 2018 version his fall speed and swing speed are much closer and it gets slower the Further he reaches the end of the swing. How does that not make more sense...
 

Rivyn

Member
Oct 26, 2017
820
Lol what a shit post. This being a Sony exclusive is the reason for the concern trolling. Happens all the time. Corridor racer driveclub, slay basic boring combat horizon, generic days gone, dad simulator god of war, fake last of us 2...
So true. Sony exclusives tend to get the most hate before their initial release. People downplaying graphics, commenting on the “terrible” gameplay.

This is just trolling and pure fanboyism where said person is angry the game does not release on his/her console. Best just to ignore these people. They are not even worth your breath.