Spider-Man: Far From Home |Spoiler OT| Even dead, I'm the hero

Joe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,992
Like, it's something that can easily be handwaved.

Consider that virtually every major time-travel story completely ignores that the Earth, solar system, and whole universe is in constant motion. So, like, in Back to the Future, the DeLorean arriving at the exact same physical space but in another time means that Marty gets stranded in space. Now, feel better about those people snapped from planes and shit.
I always felt as thought this Gotcha ignores that all position and motion is relative anyway. It sort of has this unspoken implied absolute reference frame.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,309
Spider-Man 3 might be the worst solely for the scene where Peter walks out of the sewer after thinking he's killed Sandman, catches his reflection in a mirror, and decides it's time to flatten his hair. As if to say, "This is my new look now."

That Raimi thought this scene was the best way visually communicate the change in Peter's demeanor says it all
 

Pagusas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,270
Frisco, Tx
Spider-Man 3 might be the worst solely for the scene where Peter walks out of the sewer after thinking he's killed Sandman, catches his reflection in a mirror, and decides it's time to flatten his hair. As if to say, "This is my new look now."

That Raimi thought this scene was the best way visually communicate the change in Peter's demeanor says it all
It’s my belief Raimi intentionally made the worst movie he possibly could. He was too talented a person for Spider-Man to be anything but intentionally horrible. Like it was his way of giving Sony the middle finger or something.
 

Neece

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,030
Man that's what I thought but I distinctly remember Ned saying along the lines of "how did he come back ripped after being blipped" and it got me confused


I'll need to rewatch that scene with Ned. I swear he says Brad was blipped..must be mistaken.
I thought I heard the same thing (that Brad was blipped and “came back ripped”).And it was throwing me off every time he came on screen.
 

THErest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,479
The Delereon coming back to the same physical space on Earth.
I just figured that Doc thought of this when programming the DeLorean. What I'm saying, though, is the writers did not address it. It was handwaved. Like the people blipped back in Endgame.

I always felt as thought this Gotcha ignores that all position and motion is relative anyway. It sort of has this unspoken implied absolute reference frame.
Could be, but it is almost never addressed by the writers. It is handwaved, again, like the people brought back in Endgame. That's all I'm saying, we can come up with plausible explanations for these handwaved issues, so it's not a big deal in Endgame that some people were in planes or whatever.
 

Conrad Link

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,226
New Zealand
Man, I can't describe how happy I was when that J. Jonah Jameson moment hit the screen.

I had no idea, it hadn't been spoiled or anything for me and I marked the f**k out.

Literally no one else can play him in my opinion, so glad they did it.

HES A CROOK! A MENACE!
 

LL_Decitrig

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,789
Sunderland
I always felt as thought this Gotcha ignores that all position and motion is relative anyway. It sort of has this unspoken implied absolute reference frame.
Breaks down in non-inertial frames. This is why in the "twins" mind experiment the astronaut in orbit ages slower than the one who remains on earth. Twins moving in free space relative to one another without acceleration would be aging at the same rate, even if they were moving at a great velocity relative to one another.


DISCLAIMER: I'm not a theoretical physicist.
 

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,856
I recall people saying this might have been the case prior to FFH coming out.
So with this actually being what happened, when people blipped back, would they still be in the cars (airplanes, boats, etc locations) or just in the previous location ie. falling to their deaths or blipping back on the highway etc?
Did Marvel ever comment on that?
I don't think so, and I really hope they don't.

The resolution of the snap and its effects is one of the things that requires the biggest suspension of disbelief in the MCU, and I think it's best ignored rather that dealt with half-heartedly.
 

Joe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,992
Breaks down in non-inertial frames. This is why in the "twins" mind experiment the astronaut in orbit ages slower than the one who remains on earth. Twins moving in free space relative to one another without acceleration would be aging at the same rate, even if they were moving at a great velocity relative to one another.


DISCLAIMER: I'm not a theoretical physicist.
Man I'm so bad at physics.
 

Lone_Prodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,724
Great film.

The twist at the end reminded me of the animated series I watched as a kid: he just couldn't get his happy ending.

In hindsight, "Fury" getting upset when Peter mentioned Captain Marvel made sense if it was Talos.

I had a minor quibble about the Tony Stark Fan Club escaping any type of background check or scrutiny but I guess the world is still pretty chaotic post snap.
 
Apr 19, 2018
928
I've seen the movie thrice at this point, and the bell head-hitting gag gets the audience every single time. xD

I've mentioned before how improved the CG web-swinging sequences are in this one over Homecoming, but it's the Venice sequence with Peter swinging around out of costume that impresses me the most. I know Holland is a natural gymnast, but whether it was him doing his own stunts or not, I wonder how much of his action choreography was done practically, and how much was a CG double in this scene.

Either way, it's impressive stuff.
 

LL_Decitrig

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,789
Sunderland
Wonder how Flash is going to react when he finds out Peter is Spider-Man.
It's a good comeuppance story for the bully figure from Homecoming to be forced to face the fact that his victim is not only much brighter then he is, but is much cooler and has a very enviable family life. Even if Flash never reaches this point of realisation within the MCU, the narrative is there.

We're not all Spider-Man, but depicting this enormously powerful person as a teenager who has to deal with bullies and other problems is one of the reasons why Spider-Man is one of the most beloved and recognisable comic book heroes ever.
 

effzee

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,892
NJ
So as I mentioned a few days back, I really really enjoyed the movie but something that bothers me now that I think about it, and will for all solo Marvel movies, is the whole idea that this story takes place in a shared universe. The more you analyze the post Endgame world and how everyday normal kids go about it, it falls apart story-wise. They just comically talked their way past everything by mentioning the blip at the start and then nothing. It might as well not have even happened.

And the motive and premise of why Mysterio is doing what he is doing are beyond flimsy. Disgruntled ex Stark employees? Cause he named his technology BARF? His whole team looks like a group of ppl you'd find at happy hour and all of a sudden they are talked into creating this fake character, destroy cities, and kill ppl just to trick Nick Fury and take over as the only remaining superhero? I'd expect that kind of plot from the Incredibles but here...I mean again the movie was fun but the more I think about it, the less believable it is.
 

Kito

Member
Nov 6, 2017
828
Yeah, I was so confused about how they touched upon rampant homelessness in New York because of the blip, then they get to Italy and everything seems absolutely fine.
 

Z-Beat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,116
And the motive and premise of why Mysterio is doing what he is doing are beyond flimsy. Disgruntled ex Stark employees? Cause he named his technology BARF? His whole team looks like a group of ppl you'd find at happy hour and all of a sudden they are talked into creating this fake character, destroy cities, and kill ppl just to trick Nick Fury and take over as the only remaining superhero? I'd expect that kind of plot from the Incredibles but here...I mean again the movie was fun but the more I think about it, the less believable it is.
They do hints of it throughout the movie but it's implied that Beck is unstable. It also wouldn't be the first time Stark's recklessness drove someone to villainy (see Iron Man 3, Iron Man 2, Civil War, Age of Ultron), plus he threatened to murder them if they didn't go through with the plan
 

Lone_Prodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,724
Yes the motive is really the weakest part. If any of them blipped it would've delayed their plans as well so the fact that they were able to pull all that off so quickly was another head scratcher.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,309
Yeah, I was so confused about how they touched upon rampant homelessness in New York because of the blip, then they get to Italy and everything seems absolutely fine.
NYC has a population of over 8 million. Venice is mostly tourists, and I'm sure the residents there would be quite happy with half the tourists in that city just disappearing!

They do hints of it throughout the movie but it's implied that Beck is unstable. It also wouldn't be the first time Stark's recklessness drove someone to villainy (see Iron Man 3, Iron Man 2, Civil War, Age of Ultron), plus he threatened to murder them if they didn't go through with the plan
It's not just implied Beck is unstable, he outright says Tony fired him for being unstable lol
 

Alienous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,346
That was great. The writing for both of the Spider-Man movie has been superb, and this probably has the best action I've seen in the MCU.

They nailed Mysterio, just like Homecoming had the best version of the Vulture. Supernatural threats would result in a clean up crew of weapon dealing scavengers? Smart. Tony Stark leaving the weapons manufacturing business leaving a disgruntled crew of talented people behind? Smart.

It's exactly what an MCU film should be. It takes decades of comic history and presents a new version of these characters, with smart connections to the cinematic universe overall.

Mysterio being the product of a crew of artists, writers, actors and drone specialists was a really intelligent approach. Quentin's volatile threats were also a good way of addressing how people could be complicit in the devastation beyond getting paid. They do a good job of making him treatening - I've thought that Spellbinder in Batman Beyond did a better job of conveying how powerful illusions could be than I've seen in most Mysterio depictions, and I was reminded of Spellbinder watching Mysterio in this.

I only have a few complaints. The glasses felt weak as a subplot, and not great as a main plot device. The handling of Spider-Man giving up the glasses felt dumb - Mysterio knows that Peter has them when they should be a secret, and manages to get them based on flimsy reasoning. All of a sudden Peter needs to get rid of them urgently. I'd at least liked to have seen Mysterio's plan being to deliberately make Peter feel incompetent, instead of him doing a pretty good job given the circumstances and shirking responsibility for kill drone eyewear.

You also can't drop something that significant in the mid-credits.
 

Garrett 2U

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,743
And the motive and premise of why Mysterio is doing what he is doing are beyond flimsy. Disgruntled ex Stark employees? Cause he named his technology BARF? His whole team looks like a group of ppl you'd find at happy hour and all of a sudden they are talked into creating this fake character, destroy cities, and kill ppl just to trick Nick Fury and take over as the only remaining superhero? I'd expect that kind of plot from the Incredibles but here...I mean again the movie was fun but the more I think about it, the less believable it is.
Yes. I found myself rolling my eyes at the reveal.
 

LL_Decitrig

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,789
Sunderland
The more you analyze the post Endgame world and how everyday normal kids go about it, it falls apart story-wise. They just comically talked their way past everything by mentioning the blip at the start and then nothing. It might as well not have even happened.
Two points: the word "blip" speaks for itself. You were a teenager with a heap of problems then there was a blip and suddenly half the people you knew got older. But despite the world getting grimier and lots of people getting fatter and older somehow you still have to graduate and make a career. And that girl you used to date in school is now 21 and is married with a family.

There's just so much crap going on for a teenager in the Endgame world. So maybe you want to go for a young adult drama on the lines of Hunger Games or Deathly Hallows. But nah, this is a film about a teenage superhero. Obviously it has to be a light-hearted coming of age comedy with added villainy.
 

Alienous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,346
So as I mentioned a few days back, I really really enjoyed the movie but something that bothers me now that I think about it, and will for all solo Marvel movies, is the whole idea that this story takes place in a shared universe. The more you analyze the post Endgame world and how everyday normal kids go about it, it falls apart story-wise. They just comically talked their way past everything by mentioning the blip at the start and then nothing. It might as well not have even happened.

And the motive and premise of why Mysterio is doing what he is doing are beyond flimsy. Disgruntled ex Stark employees? Cause he named his technology BARF? His whole team looks like a group of ppl you'd find at happy hour and all of a sudden they are talked into creating this fake character, destroy cities, and kill ppl just to trick Nick Fury and take over as the only remaining superhero? I'd expect that kind of plot from the Incredibles but here...I mean again the movie was fun but the more I think about it, the less believable it is.
I think the only way to handle 'the blip' is to treat it comically. Infinity War and Endgame were crossover event movies - it's the nature of comics for the pendulum to swing back quickly from cataclysmic events. I think the writers do as good a job as they could, as they aren't making a post-apocalypse movie. They touch on school being affected, losing homes, people reappearing into nowhere, fraud - they just do it with a comic edge.

With Mysterio I think they justify it. I got the impression that he hired actors to be in the midst of the devastation, and is quick to threaten anyone who might give up the illusion. He's trying to appear competent, so I didn't get the impression he was leaving a body count, but that the people swept up in the battle were actors. It was the final performance in London that seemed to be when Mysterio was going to target people.

I'm not sure what the end goal for Mysterio's plans was, though. Especially seeing as he wanted recognition for his technology, but his plan involves keeping his technology hidden.
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,942
Seattle
Yeah, I was so confused about how they touched upon rampant homelessness in New York because of the blip, then they get to Italy and everything seems absolutely fine.
Sure we could spend half the movie talking about the implications of the Blip, But most people don't want to see that movie.

Edit: But I wouldn't mind seeing a faux documentary about the blip on Disney+ How many people would actually watch that though?


Yes the motive is really the weakest part. If any of them blipped it would've delayed their plans as well so the fact that they were able to pull all that off so quickly was another head scratcher.
I mean sure, if any of them blipped it would have messed up their plans. But they didn't blip, so it didn't.
 

xxracerxx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,402
I think more time has passed since the end of Endgame and FFH than people realize. It has to be at least 9months, right? Since these kids completed another school year.
 

effzee

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,892
NJ
Two points: the word "blip" speaks for itself. You were a teenager with a heap of problems then there was a blip and suddenly half the people you knew got older. But despite the world getting grimier and lots of people getting fatter and older somehow you still have to graduate and make a career. And that girl you used to date in school is now 21 and is married with a family.

There's just so much crap going on for a teenager in the Endgame world. So maybe you want to go for a young adult drama on the lines of Hunger Games or Deathly Hallows. But nah, this is a film about a teenage superhero. Obviously it has to be a light-hearted coming of age comedy with added villainy.
It doesn't have to be any of those movies, but IMO it has to either address the blip or don't. Leave that for another movie. But bringing it up only to just wave it away as a joke, seemed odd to me. When it came up I thought for sure they would talk about how some his classmates are now 5 yrs older than him but it seems like for Peter exactly everyone he has ever loved or cared for remained the same age as Peter.

I think the only way to handle 'the blip' is to treat it comically. Infinity War and Endgame were crossover event movies - it's the nature of comics for the pendulum to swing back quickly from cataclysmic events. I think the writers do as good a job as they could, as they aren't making a post-apocalypse movie. They touch on school being affected, losing homes, people reappearing into nowhere, fraud - they just do it with a comic edge.
Yeah, it didn't work as well for me. Again really enjoyed the movie but I've always hated or found it unbelievable, that in a world with aliens and other superheroes, you go from a super team-up movie back to a solo story. Esp when the solo story involves another huge event affecting Earth and killing many. They try to explain it away by saying literally every other superhero is busy, but I guess this a pet peeve of mine.
 

Jiminy

Avenger
Mar 29, 2018
2,200
And the motive and premise of why Mysterio is doing what he is doing are beyond flimsy. Disgruntled ex Stark employees? Cause he named his technology BARF? His whole team looks like a group of ppl you'd find at happy hour and all of a sudden they are talked into creating this fake character, destroy cities, and kill ppl just to trick Nick Fury and take over as the only remaining superhero? I'd expect that kind of plot from the Incredibles but here...I mean again the movie was fun but the more I think about it, the less believable it is.
I think you're missing the crux of why they're doing it. The most important lines in the monologue weren't the ones about BARF and such but the ones about "life's work" and the fact they all got fired/let go.

There's tons of key backstory which is the meat and potatoes of these characters, but gets gets glossed in the monologue. Frankly, the monologue is super over-written. It should be half as long and people wouldn't complain as much.

The key information which gets bogged down in all the over-writing is: these innocuous people slaved for years - probably decades - on their very personal bleeding-edge projects, which got them jobs with Stark Industries. Stark then personally sucked in, chewed up and spat out these projects (usually deconstructing/destroying them) with basically no respect for the creators, then fired them all.

They look like happy hour employees because they are back-end Silicon Valley and MIT style developers. They are super-geniuses relegated to the back bench and abused by a megalomaniac boss. They work together on all the completely insane shit because they want a drip of the respect and reputation that Stark got, so do it the only way they know how - use their brains to manipulate people.

Their ultimate goal isn't to "take over as the only remaining superhero" - it's to finally be recognised for all their work. Which, clearly, was going to come after they destroyed at least two cities in their insane publicity campaign.

It doesn't have to be any of those movies, but IMO it has to either address the blip or don't. Leave that for another movie. But bringing it up only to just wave it away as a joke, seemed odd to me. When it came up I thought for sure they would talk about how some his classmates are now 5 yrs older than him but it seems like for Peter exactly everyone he has ever loved or cared for remained the same age as Peter.
You've pinpointed a contention which will only exist within this new concept of a "cinematic universe".

It's basically a friction between:
1. we want to make an upbeat teen movie Spider-Man, following Homecoming's lead
2. we want to make a continuation of the events of Infinity War/Endgame which contextualises the events of those movies

The problem is that these two things don't really go together, because #1 is upbeat tone while #2 is frankly a very grim, heavy series of events.

So their approach to hit both goals was to show a more flippant, teenager perspective on the events of IW/EG.

I definitely see what you're saying, but thought the execution was so good that they landed it, really.
 

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,856
How they handled the blip was a problem with Endgame and setting up an unwieldy premise, not with FFH. This was always going to be a problem unless they wanted the MCU to be about the cataclysmic effects of the snap. Which frankly isn't what I want out of my superhero movies. It's the problem with the end of Man of Steel too, and they leaned into the ramifications of it in BvS for the much, much worse.

Forget the snap/blip ASAP. It's over. it was a dumb idea to write into the MCU.
 

effzee

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,892
NJ
You've pinpointed a contention which will only exist within this new concept of a "cinematic universe".

It's basically a friction between:
1. we want to make an upbeat teen movie Spider-Man, following Homecoming's lead
2. we want to make a continuation of the events of Infinity War/Endgame which contextualises the events of those movies

The problem is that these two things don't really go together, because #1 is upbeat tone while #2 is frankly a very grim, heavy series of events.

So their approach to hit both goals was to show a more flippant, teenager perspective on the events of IW/EG.

I definitely see what you're saying, but thought the execution was so good that they landed it, really.
Yeah and I do think they achieved what they were going for. I left the theater very pleased. It's only on recounting the events that it brought it down for me a bit.

How they handled the blip was a problem with Endgame and setting up an unwieldy premise, not with FFH. This was always going to be a problem unless they wanted the MCU to be about the cataclysmic effects of the snap. Which frankly isn't what I want out of my superhero movies. It's the problem with the end of Man of Steel too, and they leaned into the ramifications of it in BvS for the much, much worse.

Forget the snap/blip ASAP. It's over. it was a dumb idea to write into the MCU.
This I agree with 1000%
 

Alienous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,346
I think you're missing the crux of why they're doing it. The most important lines in the monologue weren't the ones about BARF and such but the ones about "life's work" and the fact they all got fired/let go.

There's tons of key backstory which is the meat and potatoes of these characters, but gets gets glossed in the monologue. Frankly, the monologue is super over-written. It should be half as long and people wouldn't complain as much.

The key information which gets bogged down in all the over-writing is: these innocuous people slaved for years - probably decades - on their very personal bleeding-edge projects, which got them jobs with Stark Industries. Stark then personally sucked in, chewed up and spat out these projects (usually deconstructing/destroying them) with basically no respect for the creators, then fired them all.

They look like happy hour employees because they are back-end Silicon Valley and MIT style developers. They are super-geniuses relegated to the back bench and abused by a megalomaniac boss. They work together on all the completely insane shit because they want a drip of the respect and reputation that Stark got, so do it the only way they know how - use their brains to manipulate people.

Their ultimate goal isn't to "take over as the only remaining superhero" - it's to finally be recognised for all their work. Which, clearly, was going to come after they destroyed at least two cities in their insane publicity campaign.
They're also employees that worked for a weapons manufacturer. Stark Industries would have been comprised of people with fewer qualms about what's ethical. There's clear reservation about casualties which don't both Quentin, but the focus of the plan was destruction that Mysterio could rescue people from. Their technology used to dethrone their former boss.
 

GAMEPROFF

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,628
Germany
Iron Man: The Movie about Tony Stark becoming the Hero Iron Man, outing himself in the end to the world to make his identity public.
Spider-Man Far From Home: The Movie about Peter Parker stepping into the footsteps of Iron Man, at the end he gets outed and his identity is public.

Coincidence? I dont think so.
 

#1 defender

Member
Oct 27, 2017
645
Is there anywhere online where i can rewatch the after credits scenes and if so, can anyone hook me up with a link? Thanks!

Edit: Nevermind, found them on youtube.
 
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Jiminy

Avenger
Mar 29, 2018
2,200
They're also employees that worked for a weapons manufacturer. Stark Industries would have been comprised of people with fewer qualms about what's ethical. There's clear reservation about casualties which don't both Quentin, but the focus of the plan was destruction that Mysterio could rescue people from. Their technology used to dethrone their former boss.
Very true, although I get the impression SI does a lot more than just weapons
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,415
just saw this. first two acts were really trashy. i get they wanted the monster plot to seem kind of hokey so it would make sense as a ruse later, but they went too far: it was boring as hell. plus there were a lot of really bad lines and poor attempts at humor, not to mention a lot of really wooden performances from actors i know can do better.

another thing that annoyed me is how ludicrously incompetent peter was for that first bit, almost murdering his entire tour group and just generally making problems for himself outside the scope of the classic "parker luck".

as soon as mysterio is revealed as an illusionist scammer (something that takes WAY too long considering that is literally his entire character) the story and action picks up and never slows down, resulting in an extremely decent cinematic spider man final fight. the fact that the path to get there sucked so much is a real bummer. overall, it turned it around for me at the end but there was a whole lot of eye-roll-ey stuff in there. never saw homecoming