Spider-Man: Far From Home |Spoiler OT| Even dead, I'm the hero

Bran-dono

Member
Aug 22, 2018
1,028
I see this a lot. What does it mean? Like, twenty minutes into any Spider-Man film you see a teenager handling crap that would pulverise Jason Bourne and at least muss up James Bond's dinner jacket. He was bitten by a spider. How does this relate to somebody getting their deserts?
Uh I really don't understand what you're saying. My response was regarding the writing, in particular the moment where Flash Thompson is at the air port and asks about his mom. This particular moment felt like it had no buildup at all being that Flash spends most of the movie live streaming on Instagram/Snapchat, and there isn't any real character development from him besides that one moment at the airport.

From a writing perspective it felt hollow because the previous scenes did not lead up to it. So it felt undeserved.
 

Rob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,158
SATX
Uh I really don't understand what you're saying. My response was regarding the writing, in particular the moment where Flash Thompson is at the air port and asks about his mom. This particular moment felt like it had no buildup at all being that Flash spends most of the movie live streaming on Instagram/Snapchat, and there isn't any real character development from him besides that one moment at the airport.

From a writing perspective it felt hollow because the previous scenes did not lead up to it. So it felt undeserved.
There was a text message Flash got when Peter got the glasses and was looking around. I forget exactly what it said but it mention his mom not being available.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,706
Atlanta GA
Uh I really don't understand what you're saying. My response was regarding the writing, in particular the moment where Flash Thompson is at the air port and asks about his mom. This particular moment felt like it had no buildup at all being that Flash spends most of the movie live streaming on Instagram/Snapchat, and there isn't any real character development from him besides that one moment at the airport.

From a writing perspective it felt hollow because the previous scenes did not lead up to it. So it felt undeserved.
Flash is texting his mom from the bus saying he hasn't heard from her in days. Despite what's going on in his personal life he still manages to be an overcompensating douchebag for most of the movie, bragging about his lavish home life. He has a near death experience and opens up that he is unhappy with what he's accomplished and that he sees his streaming antics as a waste of time and energy, as if he knows he could be doing something more beneficial to the world, like his hero Spider-Man (whom he earlier stated inspired him to be a better person).

I agree there isn't much there, but that is the build up to that final scene at the airport where Flash pretty much comes to understand that his parents don't really care about him. I think Flash's part in the movie is underwritten, but it's still pretty clear where this is going in subsequent movies if you know where Flash ends up later in life. And in the context of this movie alone doesnt really feel undeserved.

The school bully got his just desserts in Homecoming, when Spider-Man hijacked and wrecked his dad's expensive car. This time we find out that some of the bully's behavior may be a reaction to something a bit more unfortunate in his personal life, and we feel bad for him. It wasn't just some side thing they threw in there to give Flash something to do besides gloat- its his ongoing character arc.
 

Bran-dono

Member
Aug 22, 2018
1,028
Flash is texting his mom from the bus saying he hasn't heard from her in days. Despite what's going on in his personal life he still manages to be an overcompensating douchebag for most of the movie, bragging about his lavish home life. He has a near death experience and opens up that he is unhappy with what he's accomplished and that he sees his streaming antics as a waste of time and energy, as if he knows he could be doing something more beneficial to the world, like his hero Spider-Man (whom he earlier stated inspired him to be a better person).

I agree there isn't much there, but that is the build up to that final scene at the airport where Flash pretty much comes to understand that his parents don't really care about him. I think Flash's part in the movie is underwritten, but it's still pretty clear where this is going in subsequent movies if you know where Flash ends up later in life. And in the context of this movie alone doesnt really feel undeserved.

The school bully got his just desserts in Homecoming, when Spider-Man hijacked and wrecked his dad's expensive car. This time we find out that some of the bully's behavior may be a reaction to something a bit more unfortunate in his personal life, and we feel bad for him. It wasn't just some side thing they threw in there to give Flash something to do besides gloat- its his ongoing character arc.
Yeah, OK. But it still felt tacked on. I didn't care and didn't feel bad for the guy. For me it was missing something. Maybe more screen time, more dialogue from Flash would have helped. Maybe if he had participated in the plot more somehow. But when character conflict is seemingly generated from a shot of a text message, a confession, and a few seconds of "where's mom?", it just does not feel effective.
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,039
Providence / Boston
But it made no sense to have a sympathetic reveal at that point. You had an entire European vacation to add depth to everyone in the group.

We are just stuck with Penis Parker Flash in the end. Could easily do more with him.
That's kind of the point. We only saw what Peter and his friends see -- which is what Flash allows them to see.

It makes sense that once Flash is completely away from them in a situation where everyone's parents will want to be there for them, that we get a harsh reality check for him.
 

Alienous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,346
Uh I really don't understand what you're saying. My response was regarding the writing, in particular the moment where Flash Thompson is at the air port and asks about his mom. This particular moment felt like it had no buildup at all being that Flash spends most of the movie live streaming on Instagram/Snapchat, and there isn't any real character development from him besides that one moment at the airport.

From a writing perspective it felt hollow because the previous scenes did not lead up to it. So it felt undeserved.
I don't agree. To me it was a clear coda on Flash in the film. He's an unfriendly showboat because his parents are cold and wealthy.
 

Spinluck

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
6,374
Florida
For a while I though Peter's EDITH glasses would be the tell on Mysterio's bullshit but I like Spider Sense instead.

One of my favorite scenes was Peter moping around about his mistakes and shortcomings on the plane to Happy. Him talking about Stark and Happy saying that Tony was a fucking mess lol, and that Tony saw a much better him in Peter. People like to gloss over this but it was a solid scene. On top of that, Happy asks him, "what you gonna do about it?" Peter says, "I'm gonna kick his ass." Love that he gets up and stops feeling sorry for himself and takes on the responsibility and therefore holding himself accountable of all the wrongs it gets after it.

In prior Spider-Man movies I didn't like that MJ getting kidnapped is usually what kicked Spider-Man into gear for the 3rd act.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,706
Atlanta GA
I swear I didn't blink during the bus scene but I totally missed this.
Yeah it's a little too blink-and-you'll-miss-it.

I love that whole scene but maybe we would have been better off with some kind of almost-heart-to-heart between Peter and Flash there, instead of just having Peter hilariously knock him unconscious by accident.

One of my favorite scenes was Peter moping around about his mistakes and shortcomings on the plane to Happy. Him talking about Stark and Happy saying that Tony was a fucking mess lol, and that Tony saw a much better him in Peter. People like to gloss over this but it was a solid scene. On top of that, Happy asks him, "what you gonna do about it?" Peter says, "I'm gonna kick his ass." Love that he gets up and stops feeling sorry for himself and takes on the responsibility and therefore holding himself accountable of all the wrongs it gets after it.
Loved this too, and the idea that a lot of people still see Happy as Tony's wacky bodyguard, but he actually was a surrogate care-taker to Tony in the absence of his parents (because Tony was still quite the manchild well into his adulthood). So this isn't just Iron Man's sidekick giving Spider-Man a pep talk. This is the guy who took care of and supported Tony Stark in his darkest times, staying strong after losing his best friend for the next-generation hero that Iron Man believed in, and being that same person for Peter that he was for Tony.

Between the cheeseburger scene and this movie, Happy is doing quite well for himself on my list of favorite MCU characters.

Also, I love that Peter immediately apologizes for yelling, after getting all that tough stuff off his chest and having an extremely reasonable reaction to the situation. He's such a sweet kid.
 

Callibretto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,926
Indonesia
For a while I though Peter's EDITH glasses would be the tell on Mysterio's bullshit but I like Spider Sense instead.

One of my favorite scenes was Peter moping around about his mistakes and shortcomings on the plane to Happy. Him talking about Stark and Happy saying that Tony was a fucking mess lol, and that Tony saw a much better him in Peter. People like to gloss over this but it was a solid scene. On top of that, Happy asks him, "what you gonna do about it?" Peter says, "I'm gonna kick his ass." Love that he gets up and stops feeling sorry for himself and takes on the responsibility and therefore holding himself accountable of all the wrongs it gets after it.

In prior Spider-Man movies I didn't like that MJ getting kidnapped is usually what kicked Spider-Man into gear for the 3rd act.
That is the best scene in the movie in term of getting your emotion. Other parts are mainly action scene that simply cool badass scene, or humorous scene to make you laugh.

That Happy plane scene is what make the whole movie work.
 

Spinluck

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
6,374
Florida
Yeah it's a little too blink-and-you'll-miss-it.

I love that whole scene but maybe we would have been better off with some kind of almost-heart-to-heart between Peter and Flash there, instead of just having Peter hilariously knock him unconscious by accident.



Loved this too, and the idea that a lot of people still see Happy as Tony's wacky bodyguard, but he actually was a surrogate care-taker to Tony in the absence of his parents (because Tony was still quite the manchild well into his adulthood). So this isn't just Iron Man's sidekick giving Spider-Man a pep talk. This is the guy who took care of and supported Tony Stark in his darkest times, staying strong after losing his best friend for the next-generation hero that Iron Man believed in, and being that same person for Peter that he was for Tony.

Between the cheeseburger scene and this movie, Happy is doing quite well for himself on my list of favorite MCU characters.

Also, I love that Peter immediately apologizes for yelling, after getting all that tough stuff off his chest and having an extremely reasonable reaction to the situation. He's such a sweet kid.
That is the best scene in the movie in term of getting your emotion. Other parts are mainly action scene that simply cool badass scene, or humorous scene to make you laugh.

That Happy plane scene is what make the whole movie work.
Totally agreed. The fact that a minor character like him can have an impact in the same Universe that has characters like Thanos. Is what makes the MCU work for me.
 

Lone_Prodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,724
I get where they were going with Flash but the context didn't work. The spying and Edith discovery scene was more funny than serious, so Flash not being in contact with his parents was easy to miss.

The confession scene was also in the middle of the climactic battle so it was easy to overlook. I was more focused on MJ and Happy's confessions as well.

And the airport scene was at the end where the audience is usually happy and relieved it's over. The butler being there almost seemed like it should be funny (classic rich boy Flash) than sobering.

I think the only part that showed his character was the scene in the hostel where he said how he admired Spiderman.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,512
England
Finally saw it today and I'd say it was the best live action Spidey movie. The whole way through the movie I kept thinking Fury was being uncharacteristically harsh towards Pete, so when they revealed it was actually Talos the whole time it made more sense - he was just acting how he thought Fury did, so he came off more like an exaggeration.

The part where Pete trusts his spidersense was insane, too. The way the Illusion kept breaking was so cool and Spidey not falling for that final trick was just so damn stylish. Considering how much time he spends doubting himself, that he was able to score such a big win when he finally began trusting himself is great.

I will say, though, I don't get the point of trying to frame Pete? It only works, much like everything else Mysterio was trying to pull off, if there are no other superheroes around to debunk it. Mysterio has literally no idea what Spidey has done or the allies he has made.
 

8byte

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,731
Kansas
But it made no sense to have a sympathetic reveal at that point. You had an entire European vacation to add depth to everyone in the group.

We are just stuck with Penis Parker Flash in the end. Could easily do more with him.
It kind of is touched on though. Both with the text message you see during the bus ride, and the moment when Flash says he posts stupid videos on the internet so people will like him. It's clear through a few of those moments that he really doesn't feel loved.
 
Apr 18, 2019
43
One of my favorite scenes was Peter moping around about his mistakes and shortcomings on the plane to Happy. Him talking about Stark and Happy saying that Tony was a fucking mess lol, and that Tony saw a much better him in Peter. People like to gloss over this but it was a solid scene. On top of that, Happy asks him, "what you gonna do about it?" Peter says, "I'm gonna kick his ass." Love that he gets up and stops feeling sorry for himself and takes on the responsibility and therefore holding himself accountable of all the wrongs it gets after it.
Yeah, it was probably the best "Peter Parker" moment, were he knows and understand "with great powers.." and all; they just changed that to Tony.
 

Happenstance

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,594
United Kingdom
Just got back from seeing the movie. I thought it was OK but not great. Despite actually liking Tom Holland as Peter and Spider-Man there's just something I'm still not feeling with this version. The one time that went away was at the end when he was swinging through New York. That immediately got better with the JJJ reveal and then immediately got worse again when they revealed his identity. I liked the fact that he at least still had one when nearly all other heroes are just out in the open in the MCU.
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
4,568
My favourite Happy moment in the MCU is when Peter is filming him sleeping on the plane, and creeping closer and closer, until Happy flinches awake.

First time I saw that scene I could barely breathe.
 

jph139

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,715
Massachusetts
It was fun seeing Happy and Fury interact since, at this point, they're the two most "veteran" MCU actors still in the picture (along with Pepper) and, to my knowledge, this is the first time we've actually seen them meet.

Though I guess "guy who got yelled at by Jeff Bridges" now also gets that honor.
 

Defect

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,118
Finally saw it. Don’t see how it can ever be considered the best Spider-Man movie but whatever.

The Spider-Man cgi is so distractingly bad in the MCU.
 

Maximus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,314
Movie was a lot of fun, I really enjoyed it. They do a great job of capturing that teen/high school vibe. Mysterio was well done. My only gripe was with Spider-Man spending so much time just fighting drones with guns.

The post credit scene was huge, J Jonah actor coming back was the right choice and that reveal was interesting. Wonder how it’ll play out.
 

Betty

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,505
I will say, though, I don't get the point of trying to frame Pete? It only works, much like everything else Mysterio was trying to pull off, if there are no other superheroes around to debunk it. Mysterio has literally no idea what Spidey has done or the allies he has made.
I think Mysterio knows eventually Spider-Man will be proven innocent, but the point of the video as I see it is just to fuck up Peter, keep him distracted and make him vulnerable by letting everyone know who he is.
 

Old Man Spike

Member
Oct 29, 2017
906
United States
I caught a matinee of this early today, and didn't like it. Homecoming was a better movie than this one, and as I recall I had problems with that movie too. The first Spidey vs Mysterio fight in the warehouse was an incredible sequence worth the price of admission, the sort of thing I expected and was pleased to see in a movie with Mysterio, and the final battle with the drones was well done if a step down. Gyllenhaal gives a great performance as Mysterio (and, Mysterio), and Holland performs well in scenes not involving Zendaya or the high school bunch.

The rest of the movie was either mediocre of just plain bad, and everything around the high school trip - from the romantic plot to the comedy to the acting - was cliche garbage. Fury and Hill, I still don't know what the hell they're doing in these movies without S.H.I.E.L.D. backing them up, and Jackson is just happy to be there it seems. Caught myself checking my watch several times before the final act (never a good sign), and the mid-credits scene had me rolling my eyes in a "for fuck's sake" kind of way, for both the shoe-horned appearance by Simmons and the callback cliffhanger diving off a cliff. I didn't stay for a post-credits.

Maybe I'll feel better about it later, but doubtful. It's one of the worst Spider-Man movies Sony has made.
 
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LL_Decitrig

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,789
Sunderland
Uh I really don't understand what you're saying. My response was regarding the writing, in particular the moment where Flash Thompson is at the air port and asks about his mom. This particular moment felt like it had no buildup at all being that Flash spends most of the movie live streaming on Instagram/Snapchat, and there isn't any real character development from him besides that one moment at the airport.

From a writing perspective it felt hollow because the previous scenes did not lead up to it. So it felt undeserved.
Yeah, my point is that I think you're bullshitting. You can describe a character in a thumbnail, no need to ask whether it's "earned" even if you can give a coherent explanation of what you mean. Fuck this. Fuck this fucking nonsense. Fuck all this fan lunacy.
 

Drewton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,657
I think Mysterio knows eventually Spider-Man will be proven innocent, but the point of the video as I see it is just to fuck up Peter, keep him distracted and make him vulnerable by letting everyone know who he is.
He pretty much potentially ruined his life by revealing his identity

It was fun seeing Happy and Fury interact since, at this point, they're the two most "veteran" MCU actors still in the picture (along with Pepper) and, to my knowledge, this is the first time we've actually seen them mee
Didn't even think of this before
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,512
England
I think Mysterio knows eventually Spider-Man will be proven innocent, but the point of the video as I see it is just to fuck up Peter, keep him distracted and make him vulnerable by letting everyone know who he is.
But why? He liked Peter. He didn't even want to hurt him and originally planned only to kill Fury because he'd figure him out. Why would Mysterio go from "when I have to kill Peter because of your mistake it'll be his blood on your hands" to "I'm dying and I want to ruin your life"?
 

Sanjuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,150
Massachusetts
But why? He liked Peter. He didn't even want to hurt him and originally planned only to kill Fury because he'd figure him out. Why would Mysterio go from "when I have to kill Peter because of your mistake it'll be his blood on your hands" to "I'm dying and I want to ruin your life"?
He didn't like Peter, at least not in the sense that he would ever do him any favors.
 

cb1115

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,225
think I liked this more than Homecoming. the high school stuff was better-realized (the Peter/MJ relationship was adorable) and the action was a nice step up. just felt like a more confident production overall. the JJJ + identity reveal was fucking crazy and it's pretty cool that we don't have the slightest idea of where they'll go with the sequel. there are ways to roll it back, though; saw a comment presenting the idea that one of the Skrulls (maybe Talos) could shapeshift in order to prove that Spider-Man and Peter are two separate people. Peter's been so careless with his identity anyway that they might just stick with it though.

side-note: I hope Insomniac can recreate the scale of Manhattan represented in that last swinging scene when they get around to a Spider-Man sequel on PS5.
 
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Betty

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,505
But why? He liked Peter. He didn't even want to hurt him and originally planned only to kill Fury because he'd figure him out. Why would Mysterio go from "when I have to kill Peter because of your mistake it'll be his blood on your hands" to "I'm dying and I want to ruin your life"?
Because Peter was about to beat him and Mysterio is petty enough to leave a 'gotcha' as revenge after his death.

He pretty much potentially ruined his life by revealing his identity
Yup, we've never seen Spider-man face this kind of thing before.
 

PanzerKraken

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,458
Was... ok. Tom is great as Spidey but these movies keep feeling like they aren't really Spiderman movies, there is bits of greatness shining in them but they get buried so much in the world of Iron Man and the MCU stuff in general when I just want to see Spiderman. When Spidey goes into the big illusion of Mysterio with the fake school and constant illusions, that was amazing and felt like classic comics come to life. Everything with Fury and how they are trying to bring Peter into the fold... no... no. Spiderman needs to be a loner who has the occasional team ups. The worst part of these two MCU Spidey flicks have been it's overflowing smashing you in the face with the MCU. Black Panther, Dr Strange, and so on got stand alone films that really were extremely focused on that character and their world.

My one hope is the post credits stuff meaning we are gonna have a more Peter centric spidey film and not have him constantly dealing with Tony Stark Jr crap
 

Alienous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,346
I dunno about that. At first it seemed like he was only pretending to be friendly to get EDITH but even after he got it he seemed pretty unhappy with the idea of having to kill Spidey.
At the point that Peter is actively interfering in his plans I think Mysterio just gets a dislike for him. He was willing to shoot him, and failing that he's happy to ruin Peter's life anyway.

His final act also factors into the plan of diluting / hijacking the legacy of superheroes - taking on an Avengers level threat himself and having an Avenger supposedly attack him for it.
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,839
I dunno about that. At first it seemed like he was only pretending to be friendly to get EDITH but even after he got it he seemed pretty unhappy with the idea of having to kill Spidey.
One would also think he liked the people he worked with. But it didn't stop him from threatening to kill them when he felt they messed up. The dude is a insane, angry, and bitter.
 

raYne_07

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,243
Mysterio was awesome.
But there‘s a question I had: Doesn‘t SHIELD at least check some personal background of people they work with? I mean Beck worked for Stark, how difficult could it be?
Well he already established that he wasn't Beck from this Earth, but from another one.. so what would the background check reveal? They'd just find "him" and he would say it's the other guy..
 

raYne_07

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,243
Uh...That was a lie, a fakeout, Beck wasn't from another dimension, that was the whole point, it was a story he made up to go along with the holograms and drone illusions.
Yeah, duh. I'm saying the initial background check wouldn't reveal anything that he couldn't already counter with the fact that he "isn't from this Earth".
 

Bran-dono

Member
Aug 22, 2018
1,028
Yeah, my point is that I think you're bullshitting. You can describe a character in a thumbnail, no need to ask whether it's "earned" even if you can give a coherent explanation of what you mean. Fuck this. Fuck this fucking nonsense. Fuck all this fan lunacy.
Bruh calm the fuck down. I’m a writer and this type of stuff interests me. This is more about the craft of writing than fan lunacy.

Feel small.