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Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
Do you happen to remember what quest (or roughly what quest at least) that cutscene was in? I remember that cutscene very differently, and I'd like to go back and look at it
I don't, but it was unvoiced for a reason I imagine to cause speculation such as this.

The Twinning data logs talk about how it took eons after Cid was long gone for the Ironworks to figure out time travel, complete with making their own tiny Alexander/Omega baby powered by the Crystal Tower to do so, so if they were already crossing through time (or knew they could) and/or looking for a place to pick the WoL up, ther'es no way it can be Fortemps because Fortemps is not involved with time travel in the slightest, and Echo happened in Exarch's room. The Echo is always linked to a person, their things, or some other connection. Fortemps had no connection to the first.

It also reiterates that only Allagans/Graha can Time Travel.
 

B.K.

Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,020
The Biggs that showed up is like Biggs way down the line descendent according to the logs in Twinning and the time travel tech wasn't even discovered until long after everything was almost broken.

That was probably just Graha and Biggs trying to look up as much info as possible to get a good point in time to pick up WoL.

But wasn't it said that G'raha Tia didn't wake up until AFTER the Crystal Tower was sent to the First?
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
No, the Ironworks researchers and other survivors woke him up on the Source.
That and the only other option is a still unrevealed character, as Fortemps doesn't fit at all.

EDIT: for clarity here's one of the posts that sums it up pretty well but there's still some theories mixed with all the "truth" that is laid bare in the dungeon

From the post
To summarize:
  • The (future) Source was doomed after the Eighth Umbral Calamity.
  • The Ironworks, led by Biggs III (Biggs' grandchild?), managed to open the doors to the Crystal Tower. Initial purpose for this is unclear.
  • They discover G'raha Tia, still asleep.
  • Somewhere along the way, he awakens and the plan is decided to travel into the past to avert the Calamity / Rejoining. G'raha and Biggs travel the world, looking for history of the Warrior of Light who has presumably fallen at this point in history.
  • The Ironworks decide to build a device patterned after Omega, the only entity known to be capable of traversing the Dimensional Rift between worlds / shards. (They obviously also took some inspiration from Alexander, enabling the temporal displacement.)
  • Because of his heritage, G'raha can become a part of the Crystal Tower (unexplained), allowing him to travel to the past and across dimensions with the Tower.
  • Using the Tycoon device, the Crystal Tower is flung ~200+ years into the past, and onto The First.
 

rpm

Into the Woods
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
12,348
Parts Unknown
I found the cutscene. It's cutscene #2 of the level 77 quest "More than a Hunch".

I completely remembered it wrong. The only thing you're wrong about is that it's a dream in the inn, not in the Exarch's room (which was lucky, considering I was looking for it by viewing all cutscenes with quests that had "Speak with the manager of suites in the Pendants." in the quest log).
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
I found the cutscene. It's cutscene #2 of the level 77 quest "More than a Hunch".

I completely remembered it wrong. The only thing you're wrong about is that it's a dream in the inn, not in the Exarch's room (which was lucky, considering I was looking for it by viewing all cutscenes with quests that had "Speak with the manager of suites in the Pendants." in the quest log).
My bad I guess I misremembered that.
 
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Firebrand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,709
Wow, just watched the launch trailer which I skipped. I can't believe they put the Zodiark/Hydaelyn bit in there, that was one of the biggest moments of the story for me.
 

Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
It's amazing. When he was first introduced as Solus, and his first couple of appearances in ShB my reaction was "Ugh, this guy..."
And then without noticing I realized I really liked his character by the end. He was just such a damn good antagonist.




That godsdamn smile, lol
Its funny looking back at Emets first appearances and realising that it wasnt him villaining it up, but more that he just really dislikes Varis personally.
 

Astral

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,031
After playing this expansion, I can't bring myself to hate the Ascians. Emet-Selch was really easy to sympathize with. They just want their home back after it was tragically taken from them. At worst they're assholes for believing themselves superior over the people of the present and using that as a justification for their actions. It's like Alphinaud said though, the people living in the present have as much a right to exist as the Ascians do. I thought the story was pretty good but the last few cutscenes really elevated to possibly the GOAT FF story.
 

Doc Kelso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,155
NYC
I feel so weird about this expansion.

There is so much good about this expansion, yet I can't help but feel like I'm a crazy person when I'm literally staring at something I KNOW I should like but I just don't seem able to.

Is the story good? It's one of, if not THE best FF story in decades. Emet-Selch is a wonderful villain. G'raha Tia deserves a pat on the head and to be given a belly rub. The Scions finally feel like the actual allies and party members the game has been trying to tell you they are. Every side character has something wonderful about them that keeps them memorable. Yet I can't help but dislike the fact that it feels so disconnected to the entire history of the story thus far. Yes, there is a reason we're here on The First and yes they cut over to Gaius and Estinien's Weekend in Garlemard, but I just don't like the fact that despite all the blood, sweat and tears we've shed it really has nothing to do with Eorzea. Sure we prevented the calamity but there's no one in Ul'dah, Doma, or Garlemald who is truly effected by this. Previous expansions had a ripple effect where major victories and losses had things happen across the different cities. By structuring the story as they did I feel like I'm kinda being forced to basically forget Eorzea even matters.

I'm also of two minds about the environments in 5.0. They're bigger and in many ways more fantastic than areas have been in the past, it's clear the team is getting more and more comfortable with the tech they can use now that we're a full expansion away from dropping the PS3. However I just don't like that when I run around these places I'm just running around in "Area from 2.0, but edgy". I really should be liking this, I've always loved being able to see a familiar idea re-done with better tech/different themes, but I just can't shake this weird... anxiety? This odd feeling comes up when I see how much bigger and better the new towns and areas are, that I feel like they're making the older areas look bad in comparison. Kugane was the first city in FF14 to be fully open with no loading screens, yet it feels absolutely tiny and looks like crap compared to the Crystarium now.

I feel legitimately insane when it comes to the music. I can't stop hearing about how Soken has reached new heights, yet I can only count the number of tracks I actually like on one hand and on said hand I think Soken actually did really well on maybe two to three of them. This is really weird for me, as every other expansion has completely crushed it musically. I'm also just not into the regular dungeon boss theme this expansion. They went for something different, which I appreciate, but to me it's the worst dungeon boss theme thus far.

Lastly, a minor thing for me, but while I understand that there's a tone they're going for and also probably story reasons that your character doesn't do a victory cheer when you defeat a boss for the first time it's begun to grate on me. At the very least I thought that maybe the victory cheer would return with the Expert dungeons since I was thinking that they take place after the main scenario, so perhaps with the world having been saved that your character would brighten back up a bit, but you still do that pained sigh every time.

Era, what is wrong with me?
You're over-thinking a lot of this imo. I have the full belief that the 5.0 story is going to ripple over to 5.xx, the only difference thus far is that it's not blatantly obvious like it's been in the past. We wrapped up this storyline, but we're still dealing with the fact that Hydaelyn and Zodiark are Primals. We're dealing with the fact that Zenos is now aware of pretty much everything we learned while in the First, and we're going to deal with a now greatly destabilized Garlean Empire.

There's also the fact that it seems that Astral/Umbral may be swapped and we had the whole Light/Dark spectrum messed up to begin with (Light being stasis and status quo where Dark is life and change).

As for the weird anxiety you feel about the 5.0 areas being 2.0 areas but better? Yeah. Going back to areas on the Source kinda sucks now and I really don't want to go back to those areas because they're definitely starting to feel their age. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some sort of soft reboot to bring them up to modern speed in some fashion.

As for your last point, the WoL&D is tired! The pained sigh wasn't just because of the "ambiguity" of our actions in the expansion, but also because we can't catch a fucking break. The DRK quests tend to go into this more, but our character is just fucking exhausted with having to save the world and solve everyone's problems. There's a reason each zone ends with a Scion telling us to go to bed. We're probably not going to be able to keep this up much longer. Being the Savior sucks.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,848
I feel so weird about this expansion.

There is so much good about this expansion, yet I can't help but feel like I'm a crazy person when I'm literally staring at something I KNOW I should like but I just don't seem able to.

Is the story good? It's one of, if not THE best FF story in decades. Emet-Selch is a wonderful villain. G'raha Tia deserves a pat on the head and to be given a belly rub. The Scions finally feel like the actual allies and party members the game has been trying to tell you they are. Every side character has something wonderful about them that keeps them memorable. Yet I can't help but dislike the fact that it feels so disconnected to the entire history of the story thus far. Yes, there is a reason we're here on The First and yes they cut over to Gaius and Estinien's Weekend in Garlemard, but I just don't like the fact that despite all the blood, sweat and tears we've shed it really has nothing to do with Eorzea. Sure we prevented the calamity but there's no one in Ul'dah, Doma, or Garlemald who is truly effected by this. Previous expansions had a ripple effect where major victories and losses had things happen across the different cities. By structuring the story as they did I feel like I'm kinda being forced to basically forget Eorzea even matters.

I'm also of two minds about the environments in 5.0. They're bigger and in many ways more fantastic than areas have been in the past, it's clear the team is getting more and more comfortable with the tech they can use now that we're a full expansion away from dropping the PS3. However I just don't like that when I run around these places I'm just running around in "Area from 2.0, but edgy". I really should be liking this, I've always loved being able to see a familiar idea re-done with better tech/different themes, but I just can't shake this weird... anxiety? This odd feeling comes up when I see how much bigger and better the new towns and areas are, that I feel like they're making the older areas look bad in comparison. Kugane was the first city in FF14 to be fully open with no loading screens, yet it feels absolutely tiny and looks like crap compared to the Crystarium now.

I feel legitimately insane when it comes to the music. I can't stop hearing about how Soken has reached new heights, yet I can only count the number of tracks I actually like on one hand and on said hand I think Soken actually did really well on maybe two to three of them. This is really weird for me, as every other expansion has completely crushed it musically. I'm also just not into the regular dungeon boss theme this expansion. They went for something different, which I appreciate, but to me it's the worst dungeon boss theme thus far.

Lastly, a minor thing for me, but while I understand that there's a tone they're going for and also probably story reasons that your character doesn't do a victory cheer when you defeat a boss for the first time it's begun to grate on me. At the very least I thought that maybe the victory cheer would return with the Expert dungeons since I was thinking that they take place after the main scenario, so perhaps with the world having been saved that your character would brighten back up a bit, but you still do that pained sigh every time.

Era, what is wrong with me?
I thought the same before getting into the story but I thought it was very good on its own and I think it will have ramifications into the Source. Especially with Crystal Tower as the link between the two worlds
 

Hentailover

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,416
Moscow
I just hope Emet is really done for. I HATE hate when stories can't let go of their villains. A memorable villain is all the more memorable for having a proper contained arc to themselves that has an ending.

It'll also cheapen those last scenes.
 

Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
I just hope Emet is really done for. I HATE hate when stories can't let go of their villains. A memorable villain is all the more memorable for having a proper contained arc to themselves that has an ending.

It'll also cheapen those last scenes.
There is no way Emet aint gone for good.
He got obliterated harder than Lahabraea did.
 

Doc Kelso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,155
NYC
Someone on Reddit finished all the role quests and posted a summary of what happens. There is some interesting stuff in it.

Yo this has a ton of implications holy shit. If the 13th is still able to be rejoined, you bet your ass we're going to find a way to redirect some of the excess Light that's surely still left on the First to try and save it. Ultimately it'll fail since I doubt they're going to get rid of Voidsent (And the 13th is the Void) but the implications alone are pretty huge.
 

Arkeband

Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,663
Wow, just watched the launch trailer which I skipped. I can't believe they put the Zodiark/Hydaelyn bit in there, that was one of the biggest moments of the story for me.

It's kind of a misdirection though - it implies that you've been deceived when he's spinning a tale that is leaving out the whole 'sacrifice everyone to Zodiark' bit at the end, which is what Hydaelyn was initialily created to stop (possibly by your original Ascian identity, Hythlodaeus).

Being a pawn of a light-aspected primal is concerning if the primal has ulterior motives - as far as we know, Hydaelyn only exists to shackle Zodiark.

And being a pawn of the thing you created on purpose means it's even less worrisome.
 
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Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
He's also the only Ascian to actually accept death in the end thus far.

That said, regarding being unwilling to let go of villains: did we really need Zenos back again? :|
Im actually looking forward to his new wildcard-ish role. Its going to make the ongoing garlean situation, especially when we actually get there ourselves, way more interesting.

That said i think i already like Zenos a lot more than most so eh.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,517
Im actually looking forward to his new wildcard-ish role. Its going to make the ongoing garlean situation, especially when we actually get there ourselves, way more interesting.

That said i think i already like Zenos a lot more than most so eh.

It just feels a little weird that Zenos is emperor now but he doesn't care at all about the conflict and just wants to kill the protagonist. I have to imagine he'll be dead by the end of the 5.x patch storyline because I just don't see him functioning as a leader.
 

Doc Kelso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,155
NYC
It just feels a little weird that Zenos is emperor now but he doesn't care at all about the conflict and just wants to kill the protagonist. I have to imagine he'll be dead by the end of the 5.x patch storyline because I just don't see him functioning as a leader.
I don't think he's going to be a leader. I can see a puppet government being put in place, because we do know about the existence of a council/senate. It's going to be chaos for a bit and then we'll take advantage of the chaos to step in and begin a real Garlean revolution. Or something.

What I do see happening with Zenos is that he's going to be our foil throughout the rest of the story and will likely save the WoL from getting completely screwed over. Nobody can kill us save for him, etc, etc. Then we're probably going to team up to kill Crystal Mom and Moon Dad, and then team up again to fight the real Big Bad Evil Guy that we don't know about yet, but has been vaguely hinted at in ways we don't really understand.

This is Final Fantasy, after all. We're gonna kill God(s). The final fight of the game will be against Zenos as our equal.
 

Kaah

Banned
Jun 3, 2019
1,823
Paris
I really don't want to go to the Garlean lands next. We have already seen enough of their generic architecture and it seems like the area is basically Coerthas 2.0.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,517
I don't think he's going to be a leader. I can see a puppet government being put in place, because we do know about the existence of a council/senate. It's going to be chaos for a bit and then we'll take advantage of the chaos to step in and begin a real Garlean revolution. Or something.

What I do see happening with Zenos is that he's going to be our foil throughout the rest of the story and will likely save the WoL from getting completely screwed over. Nobody can kill us save for him, etc, etc. Then we're probably going to team up to kill Crystal Mom and Moon Dad, and then team up again to fight the real Big Bad Evil Guy that we don't know about yet, but has been vaguely hinted at in ways we don't really understand.

This is Final Fantasy, after all. We're gonna kill God(s).

Man, what a weird scene it would be if Zenos pulls a Vegeta and steps in to save the WoL, of all people. I can see them doing it and it certainly feels like that's the direction his character is arcing - try to keep WoL alive as long as possible while simultaneously preparing him for a climactic final duel - but it's gonna feel kind of uncomfortable.

At least he's already made it clear he doesn't want to use Black Rose? I guess that was all Elidibus?
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,807
It just feels a little weird that Zenos is emperor now but he doesn't care at all about the conflict and just wants to kill the protagonist. I have to imagine he'll be dead by the end of the 5.x patch storyline because I just don't see him functioning as a leader.
I don't think he's emperor, he was a paper shredder to get rid of two uninteresting plot points. The emperor who wasn't ever competent with out emet or black rose and the future proves this. And black rose which is a nuke , which not only narrative useless at this point. If kept around would be questioned at every term if not used " why didn't they use the nuke " . So with out his keeper and with out his nuke, they needed someone to get rid of the two useless plotpoints. Zenos can do that.

I don't think he's emporer either, I think he's gonna bounce, and the empire is going to be in chaos with no ruler and we inter the " Political intrigue " part of the plot again
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,517
I don't think he's emperor, he was a paper shredder to get rid of two uninteresting plot points. The emperor who wasn't ever competent with out emet or black rose and the future proves this. And black rose which is a nuke , which not only narrative useless at this point. If kept around would be questioned at every term if not used " why didn't they use the nuke " . So with out his keeper and with out his nuke, they needed someone to get rid of the two useless plotpoints. Zenos can do that.

I don't think he's emporer either, I think he's gonna bounce, and the empire is going to be in chaos with no ruler and we inter the " Political intrigue " part of the plot again

Guess we just gotta see how Gaius gets out of this one, then. The Estinien Escape Button probably needs to be deployed again.
 

Doc Kelso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,155
NYC
Man, what a weird scene it would be if Zenos pulls a Vegeta and steps in to save the WoL, of all people. I can see them doing it and it certainly feels like that's the direction his character is arcing - try to keep WoL alive as long as possible while simultaneously preparing him for a climactic final duel - but it's gonna feel kind of uncomfortable.

At least he's already made it clear he doesn't want to use Black Rose? I guess that was all Elidibus?
Yeah, I kinda really dislike Zenos so him pulling a Vegeta is going to be pretty lame. At the very least I don't think he'll do anything good, he'll just step in to stop us from getting killed. And yeah, the Black Rose was all Elidibus. It'd be kinda silly if it just suddenly stopped being a plot point, but I'm also thankful that they'll drop the whole Biological Warfare angle since it's kinda boring. Especially in a fantasy universe where it's pretty much without equal.
 

Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
Didnt Zenos literally say he has zero ibterest in being emperor, and that he just wanted whatshisname (current emperor) to stop interfering with the WoL.
Like i dont think it could be any clearer that Zenis wont be leading anything, and thats why im so interested, it leaves a massive power vacuum in garlemald, doubled with how we have revently learned about no few dissenting factions that could likely become some sort of allies.
 

Frozencool

Member
Oct 26, 2017
59
Looking at things, it does seem to be that I'm overthinking it story-wise. Looking back, Heavensward was VERY much an Ishgard-based story and only rippled out to the rest of Eorzea in the patches afterwards. It honestly might just be something about how it actually flashes over to Garlemald that makes me go "NO WAIT GO BACK" but that's the intent of those scenes.

As for being the Savior sucking, I kinda get that but it's one of those gameplay vs. story things (again, I get it in the MSQ but I just feel that after that story you could brighten back up a bit). I get that our character is tired, and if anything I viewed that sigh at the end as being one of impatience more than anything. More of a "can we please go back home to the source now" than a "I'm so over this crap". Maybe you don't need to go all the way back to full cheering like before, but it would be nice if when you finish an Eden raid and you see part of the world come back to life your character does a simple smile and nod. It could also be that I play a Lalafell though, and I hate watching Lalafells be sad.

I do hope that we get something like a "Reconnecting" as opposed to the Rejoining though, where the First is still it's own world but through Hydalen-based weirdness Eorzea at large can interact with it. Heck, let us have multiple restoration based questlines where we are rebuilding The First alongside Ishgard!

Also I don't think the whole thing about being tempered by Hydaelyn is too much of an issue as I never interpreted her purpose as being ONLY to bind Zodiark. Being the two original Primals I feel their directives have much more nuance than what we've encountered. Zodiark is described as being the will of the planet itself, but he is also described as bringing order back to the laws of reality after shit went bad. Thus I think Zodiark's prime directive is closer to "These are the rules of reality, this is how it works, my job is to make sure it stays that way". Hydaelyn was made as a counter to Zodiark, but the Ascians who made her had a very clear intent as to WHY she was made. They didn't want the new life that showed up after Zodiark fixed reality to be sacrificed just to bring back the Amauritians who died. Hydaelyn is probably going to always be on our side, as her purpose isn't only to counter Zodiark.

Going deep into conspiracy land though, is it just me or are we also stealthily leading up to fighting Jenova? When I look back on the apocalypse that Amaurot encountered, and especially the parts describing how the planet suddenly seemed to be randomly harsh and creatures were being created from their fears before their creation magicks went berserk and made things even worse I get this weird feeling that it comes back to Jenova. That would probably be a looooong time off though if true.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,517
Didnt Zenos literally say he has zero ibterest in being emperor, and that he just wanted whatshisname (current emperor) to stop interfering with the WoL.
Like i dont think it could be any clearer that Zenis wont be leading anything, and thats why im so interested, it leaves a massive power vacuum in garlemald, doubled with how we have revently learned about no few dissenting factions that could likely become some sort of allies.

He said he has no interest in the Garlemald vs. Eorzea conflict and Varis' "kill all the eikons" mentality, but I don't think he ever explicitly said he wouldn't take over as Emperor.

Yeah, I kinda really dislike Zenos so him pulling a Vegeta is going to be pretty lame. At the very least I don't think he'll do anything good, he'll just step in to stop us from getting killed. And yeah, the Black Rose was all Elidibus. It'd be kinda silly if it just suddenly stopped being a plot point, but I'm also thankful that they'll drop the whole Biological Warfare angle since it's kinda boring. Especially in a fantasy universe where it's pretty much without equal.

The only issue with them dropping the Black Rose arc is that it kind of makes Gaius and Estinien's mini-arc feel kind of pointless. I guess Gaius getting his shit kicked in by Zenos and needing to be rescued by Jump Daddy is going to result in another character shift for ol' Shadowhunter. I legitimately can't tell where they're going with him anymore.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,807
No, we did not. He isn't even that cool or interesting, super generic blood knight stereotype. Can you believe they wasted a roster spot on him in NT?

I dunno. He's fine and I like fighting him. People like him so they put him in the crossoever game, no harm no foul. People think he's cool so , what's the issue
 

Tegami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
295
So when I was doing the healer role quest, there's this elezen in silver armor who grins menacingly at the heroes of the first. Do we ever figure out his deal?
 

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
28,024
I'm okay with Zenos being back since I thought they killed him off too quickly in Stormblood.

I expect him to be "THAT GUY" in JRPGs that is constantly hunting your party and throwing wrenches in every well laid plans.

What I think they need to make him work is to have him constantly gaining power as you do. He needs to be crazy powerful and a real threat. An actual rival character and not just a fanboy stalker.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
I'm okay with Zenos being back since I thought they killed him off too quickly in Stormblood.

I expect him to be "THAT GUY" in JRPGs that is constantly hunting your party and throwing wrenches in every well laid plans.

What I think they need to make him work is to have him constantly gaining power as you do. He needs to be crazy powerful and a real threat. An actual rival character and not just a fanboy stalker.

See I'm of the mind that I'd love to see what would happen to Zenos if we were to beat him. After SB and ShB I cant stand the idea of more forced battles we cant win.
 

DjDeathCool

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,638
Bismarck, ND
My prediction is that Zenos is going to drive 4.x content and give us an excuse to dive into more Crystal Mom/Dad history. My question is if Zenos will be dead or not before the next expansion... Also, lore question. So, the original Ascian civilization. They gave the sun a will of it's own to create Zodiark. Do we know any details about why that was necessary?
 

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
28,024
See I'm of the mind that I'd love to see what would happen to Zenos if we were to beat him. After SB and ShB I cant stand the idea of more forced battles we cant win.

We could win the fight for gameplay reasons but narrative wise it's a draw or you only fend him off temporary.

Then the devs have to find a way to keep changing up his mechanics to make them new and fresh every fight.

.........Shit, I just had the mental image of a "Zenos-Everywhere" system.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
My prediction is that Zenos is going to drive 4.x content and give us an excuse to dive into more Crystal Mom/Dad history. My question is if Zenos will be dead or not before the next expansion... Also, lore question. So, the original Ascian civilization. They gave the sun a will of it's own to create Zodiark. Do we know any details about why that was necessary?
Wasnt it literally due to the calamity that befell them? Before the last boss there was dialogue about how they had to do "something" because nothing else worked. I'll replay through it tonight.

We could win the fight for gameplay reasons but narrative wise it's a draw or you only fend him off temporary.

Then the devs have to find a way to keep changing up his mechanics to make them new and fresh every fight.

.........Shit, I just had the mental image of a "Zenos-Everywhere" system.
I hate this. We've fought one guy multiple times in SB and ShB. They should vary it up to be another scenario like the WoD Party the enemies are multiple well versed warriors versus us fighting a guy 5 times, then him ragequitting, and offing himself. Only to come back and get three expansions where our big antagonist force is just the same guy with slighty varied mechanics.
 
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SliceSabre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,556
In response to the pained sigh thing at the end of dungeons after beating a boss I went with because every thing you defeated in a dungeon or in a trial in the MSQ is something you would rather not kill.

Whereas in all the other Dungeons in previous areas/expansion you're mostly just killing some random monsters with certain exceptions. But in this one the Lightwardens at the end aren't just random monsters but unfortunate people turned into monsters. In other words you aren't proud of killing them and that doesn't feel good and that's why you don't celebrate it. One exception is the frog guy because you don't even actually kill him you just beat him.
 

Luigi87

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,104
I really don't want to go to the Garlean lands next. We have already seen enough of their generic architecture and it seems like the area is basically Coerthas 2.0.
The only reason I'm interested in seeing Garlemald is for the people.

I liked the Ivalice storyline in that it gave some perspective on Garleans, such as those who while they might not see foreigners as 'savages', they still see themselves as above them.
... Not unlike how Eorzeans feel about Beast Tribes in a way.
 

Zomba13

#1 Waluigi Fan! Current Status: Crying
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,908
So watching Zepla's thoughts on ShB and her talking about Emet and our connection to him and Amaurot and a thought just hit.

What if Emet, going all big bad evil Ascian, was him saving us? He talks to us like he knows us, he likely knew us, the Ascian on the bench mentioned our soul was similar to the 14th member and if we are they then we served on the council along side Emet. What if Emet was 100% behind the destruction of the first and the rejoining as planned but when it ended up endangering us he had to stop it.

Like, he followed us around and hung out with us and watched us. He went to the first after we did, he did say he was there long ago but why involve himself in things now? Now that we're on the first? Now that we're in danger because of G'raha's plans and us absorbing too much light. He didn't know about Ardbert's soul ghost watching over us to ease the burden/rejoin.

What if he shot G'raha (and tried to get the time travel info our of him to complete his master plan of saving Amaurot) to force us to go after him where he planned on telling us everything and hoping we'd survive the light (he gave us the passes and everything in our name etc). What if, at the end of it all, he wanted us to kill him as a way to save ourself? To expend all our light to extinguish his darkness (and Ardbert just patched up our soul cracks).

I mean, he's still an Ascian doing Ascian things, trying to summon Zodiark and rejoin the shards and all that, but what if he also cared for us and didn't want to see us get killed by the light so he forced our hand.


Probably not, but eh, was nice to think about.