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Ocean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,691
So, after finishing the game on Tuesday, I still have no fucking idea why Kratos is now in Norway and how both the Norse and Greek gods existed simultaneously when their lore doesn't indicate that was possible in any way. It just comes off as hand waving just to get Kratos to have a "Viking beard" and in a "Norse setting" because Vikings are the new black lately. Even Baldur's speech at the beginning makes it sound like he's talking about how the Greek pantheon were supposedly the more enlightened ones.

What?

"Midgard" is just Earth. So he moved away from Earth to migrate to Earth? Makes sense...

You don't just move a few thousand miles away and suddenly exit the domain of gods that supposedly created the heavens into another. They never mentioned there being alternate universes or realities, or "Many Midgards" either similarly to how the realms exist in this game.
Tyr's vault has mementos from Greece and Egypt, which I feel is a certain nod to the fact that their universe has gods from multiple mythologies each having control over their particular domains.

In a game where a giant, bearded, talking, time traveling aquatic snake's stomach is featured as a playable level, the idea that Zeus and Odin coexist in different parts of the world doesn't seem all that far fetched.
 

Soundwind

Banned for suspected use of alt account
Member
Apr 13, 2018
633
the thing about Hindu mythology is that Cory said that Atreus is being set up as the next protagonist of the series

so if he goes to South American mythology of say an Eastern mythology, there are undoubtely going to be people who complain that the story is focused on a "white guy" in a non-white mythological context

i just see that happening,in today's day and age.... they have to stay within European/white of vaguely a european mythology, unless they have another protagonist to avoid backlash
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,708
Thats why the writing is so good. It works for both kratos and faye. In the end its clear he was talking about faye.

Is it? I know the Giants were important, and had knowledge Odin wanted, but I don't remember a part where they are called something akin to enlightened. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly. Enlightened is what someone would have called a Greek I feel.

Also, can someone explain to me actually why the Giants are all dead? I get that Odin and Thor fucked them up, but they are all over the place in Jottunheim, looks more like there was a fight there. Did I miss something?
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,136
As I said, it doesn't make much sense that these are the supposed gods that created the universe and that somehow they all exist independently just a few thousand miles away without any interaction what so ever. Saying they "took liberties" is a huge understatement. The reason we have various religions in our own reality on our own planet has to do with people being much less traveled and more isolated from one another for thousands of years. And as far as I know, accepting that other people have their own belief system isn't going to make it so that you alter your own in such a way that it partially conforms with theirs. Horus or Ra isn't suddenly going to be less than he always to was to you once you find out someone else believes in some other god or gods.

Baldur is also part giant, and his mother is a giant. It was explained too that the giants were just a species, and it didn't mean that they all had to be huge. If it was explained who he was actually looking for, I missed it. The only thing I remember is him saying that the boy was the smart one and the one he should have been looking for all along instead. Plus, what was "the question" he was sent by Odin to find the answer to? How to get back to Jotunheim? He was sent by Odin to hunt Kratos, specifically so he knew that he was around somewhere, then once he arrives goes into his spiel.



Except in this video game franchise, the gods factually DO exist and they DO exert their will. In this franchise it's not just a belief system.
I don't believe the fact that they do exist makes it difficult for different pantheons to coexist simultaneously, the new game sort of framed traveling as some sort of difficult task that even gods don't usually do, even the old games didn't take a stand on the existence of other myths, they just didn't mention them. Sure, they have their own particular machinations for the sun and moon, water, plant life, etc but I don't see how that clashes with the norse myth as it is revealed in game that they have their own machinations for the sun and moon, plant life, etc. I see the different pantheons as different countries with their respective human servants and souls as currency.

And the pantheons did interact with one another, Tyr is shown as a traveller to different pantheons and Mimir knew enough about Greek gods by name so, at least, some of the gods know of the existence of one another.

Baldur, in the game, is not a giant; his parents are Odin (Aesir) and Freyja (Vanir). And while Giants don't necessarily mean they are giants as explained in the game there is still a good possibility that they are indeed gigantic as shown when Kratos and Atreus look over Jotunheim at the dead corpses, not to mention the corpse of Thalmur in the game.

And my interpretation of Baldur's task is that Odin wanted Baldur to find a way back to Jotunheim, with Odin's paranoia about Ragnarok and the apparent ability for Giants to foresee the future with such great detail, I think Odin wanted to learn about the Giant's ability to see the future so he can make the necessary changes to delay or stop Ragnarok.
 

chandoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,071
But didn't Baldr say "I thought your kind was supposed to be so enlightened"? I thought that was a jab and the Greeks, and knew who Kratos was

Only a very few people (Tyr) had seen other pantheons, Mirmir had only heard of it in passing and he is the most knowledgeable character we see in the game.

I think it's safer to assume Balder went looking for a Giant with an Axe of legend, he recognized the Axe immediately. He assumed the Axe wielder was the giant in question he was looking for.

The "Enlightened" part refers to their ability for prophecy. The murals at the end have all of Kratos's journey so far and future events written down. They have (had) the gift of foresight which Atreus/Loki has inherited. (his dream of Thor).
 

Soundwind

Banned for suspected use of alt account
Member
Apr 13, 2018
633
so what is Atreus dna breakdown

30 percent Jotnar/Giant, 30 percent God, 30 percent human

still missing 10 percent?
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,136
Only a very few people (Tyr) had seen other pantheons, Mirmir had only heard of it in passing and he is the most knowledgeable character we see in the game.

I think it's safer to assume Balder went looking for a Giant with an Axe, he recognized the Axe immediately. He assumed the Axe wielder was the giant in question he was looking for.

The "Enlightened" part refers to their ability for prophecy. The murals at the end have all of Kratos's journey so far and future events written down. They have (had) the gift of foresight which Atreus/Loki has inherited.
I feel like Mimir knows much more about the Greek pantheon than something he heard in passing; he knew Greece was a country, he knows of Zeus and Athena and he knew the significance of the Ghost of Sparta and what the Ghost of Sparta did. He even said "from what I heard the pantheon deserved it" when he learnt who Kratos really was. At the very least, I think Tyr gave him extensive lessons on the different pantheons.
 

Soundwind

Banned for suspected use of alt account
Member
Apr 13, 2018
633
so the thing about doing Hindu or South american mythology next is that if Atreus is going to be the next protagonist of the series, per Cory's words

than I just feel people will complain about the story focusing on a "white guy" in a non-white mythology...

they would have to have a second protagonist, native to that mythology that teams up with Atreus or there would be backlash, especially in today's age
 

Azzanadra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,806
Canada
As I said, it doesn't make much sense that these are the supposed gods that created the universe and that somehow they all exist independently just a few thousand miles away without any interaction what so ever. Saying they "took liberties" is a huge understatement. The reason we have various religions in our own reality on our own planet has to do with people being much less traveled and more isolated from one another for thousands of years. And as far as I know, accepting that other people have their own belief system isn't going to make it so that you alter your own in such a way that it partially conforms with theirs. Horus or Ra isn't suddenly going to be less than he always to was to you once you find out someone else believes in some other god or gods.

Baldur is also part giant, and his mother is a giant. It was explained too that the giants were just a species, and it didn't mean that they all had to be huge. If it was explained who he was actually looking for, I missed it. The only thing I remember is him saying that the boy was the smart one and the one he should have been looking for all along instead. Plus, what was "the question" he was sent by Odin to find the answer to? How to get back to Jotunheim? He was sent by Odin to hunt Kratos, specifically so he knew that he was around somewhere, then once he arrives goes into his spiel.



Except in this video game franchise, the gods factually DO exist and they DO exert their will. In this franchise it's not just a belief system. It's a hell of a lot different from us. Oh, and then of course there's the whole issue of the existence of Jörmungandr.

Have you read any mythology? By our modern standards they don't make a lick of sense within themselves, so having them all co-exist is just the tip of the iceberg in the believability of this universe. Best thing to do is just roll with it.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,228
I don't believe the fact that they do exist makes it difficult for different pantheons to coexist simultaneously, the new game sort of framed traveling as some sort of difficult task that even gods don't usually do, even the old games didn't take a stand on the existence of other myths, they just didn't mention them. Sure, they have their own particular machinations for the sun and moon, water, plant life, etc but I don't see how that clashes with the norse myth as it is revealed in game that they have their own machinations for the sun and moon, plant life, etc. I see the different pantheons as different countries with their respective human servants and souls as currency.

And the pantheons did interact with one another, Tyr is shown as a traveller to different pantheons and Mimir knew enough about Greek gods by name so, at least, some of the gods know of the existence of one another.

Baldur, in the game, is not a giant; his parents are Odin (Aesir) and Freyja (Vanir). And while Giants don't necessarily mean they are giants as explained in the game there is still a good possibility that they are indeed gigantic as shown when Kratos and Atreus look over Jotunheim at the dead corpses, not to mention the corpse of Thalmur in the game.

And my interpretation of Baldur's task is that Odin wanted Baldur to find a way back to Jotunheim, with Odin's paranoia about Ragnarok and the apparent ability for Giants to foresee the future with such great detail, I think Odin wanted to learn about the Giant's ability to see the future so he can make the necessary changes to delay or stop Ragnarok.

For some reason I thought the Vanir were the giants. That's also why I thought Freyja had some kind of connection, other than simply reanimating a corpse during the final fight with Baldur, but I guess it's Aesir, Vanir and Jotunn. Their gift of prophecy also makes the "enlightened ones" remark make a whole lot more sense, yet somehow it didn't prevent their near total annihilation.

Also, didn't Mimir mention that Odin actually had the ability to see the future himself already, or that he somehow knew things that were going to happen, then said that it was complicated? It seems hee already knew that Kratos knew how to get to Jotunheim, just not exactly when he would know it.
 
Nov 2, 2017
3,723
Tyr's vault has mementos from Greece and Egypt, which I feel is a certain nod to the fact that their universe has gods from multiple mythologies each having control over their particular domains.
.
I don't think it necessarily means that they thought the stories from those regions were real, though. That's the interesting part. It's a clashing of various myths in a universe where they all turn out to be true. Kratos/Atreas' journey touches on this absurdity a bit. Kratos is curiously asking Atreas about aspects of Norse myth that they both took for granted at one point, while the irony of Kratos (and later, Atreas) being a true-to-life God is staring them right in the face.

So there's going to be a lot of "My religion is the real faith!" going around in a world where they're all real.
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,927
Is it? I know the Giants were important, and had knowledge Odin wanted, but I don't remember a part where they are called something akin to enlightened. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly. Enlightened is what someone would have called a Greek I feel.

The ending explains that the giants have the ability of foresight. This is also confirmed when Atreus starts having visions of the future himself (Thor appears at their home). And if you want further proof Cory speaks a lot in various videos about the peaceful and intelligent nature of the giants; especially Faye and her plan to protect the giants.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,228
The ending explains that the giants have the ability of foresight. This is also confirmed when Atreus starts having visions of the future himself (Thor appears at their home). And if you want further proof Cory speaks a lot in various videos about the peaceful and intelligent nature of the giants; especially Faye who made up the plan of bringing Kratos and Atreus to Jotunheim.

Actually, throughout the entire game, even prior to the big reveal to Atreus, he's waaaaaay more knowledgeable than he should be. He even mentioned just "getting things" regarding languages he had never formally learned. Thing I didn't like about the reveal though was how he went from always seeking the approval of Kratos and seemingly being levelheaded for a kid, to being a major shithead drunk on power. Makes me wonder if all of the voices he's hearing are going to drive him crazy.
 
Nov 2, 2017
3,723
Only a very few people (Tyr) had seen other pantheons, Mirmir had only heard of it in passing and he is the most knowledgeable character we see in the game.

I think it's safer to assume Balder went looking for a Giant with an Axe of legend, he recognized the Axe immediately. He assumed the Axe wielder was the giant in question he was looking for.

The "Enlightened" part refers to their ability for prophecy. The murals at the end have all of Kratos's journey so far and future events written down. They have (had) the gift of foresight which Atreus/Loki has inherited. (his dream of Thor).

I dunno. In the midst of that fight, isn't he saying things like: "You shouldn't be here!" and "You're a long way from home!"?

Yeah, they fit a Jotunn as well, or even the possibility that he was looking for Atreas, but I don't think that's settled.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,136
For some reason I thought the Vanir were the giants. That's also why I thought Freyja had some kind of connection, other than simply reanimating a corpse during the final fight with Baldur, but I guess it's Aesir, Vanir and Jotunn. Their gift of prophecy also makes the "enlightened ones" remark make a whole lot more sense, yet somehow it didn't prevent their near total annihilation. Also, didn't Mimir mention that Odin actually had the ability to see the future himself already, or that he somehow knew things that were going to happen, then said that it was complicated? He already knew that Kratos knew how to get to Jotunheim, just not exactly when he would know it.
You might be confusing real myth with in game myth; in the game Odin hated Freyja so much that anything that can be perceived as a good contribution is attributed to Frigga, which is a nickname to Freyja in the game. This also puts doubts on who the mother to Thor is, and any other kids he might have.

Freyja reanimated the corpse using Sayder/Vanir magic, and if you recall one of Mimir's stories; Freyja cannot cast a spell to harm someone else, which is why we don't have to fight Thalmur's corpse.

No idea what could've killed the Giants, I fully expected that we were going to meet some when we finally got to Jotunheim and that they were going to be friendly.

Mimir said Odin was a collector of prophecies, which earned him the "all knowing" moniker, also helps that those green ravens are constantly spying for Odin. So, I do think Odin knew someone in the general area of Kratos' home, when the barrier went down, was going to lead him to Jotunheim, where he could maybe learn the power of foresight for himself or at least get a more detailed prophecy on Ragnarok.
 

Avenger54321

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,631
Gurnee
I love how even after the game story is over, there's still things being discussed by Kratos, Mirmir, and Atreus. Like after you beat the final Valkyrie, and going through the warp tunnel, you learn the Freya is the true queen of the Valkyries and while Kratos and Atreus were finishing their journey, she came to ask Mirmir where her warrior spirit is hidden. So much story is in this game
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,927
I love how even after the game story is over, there's still things being discussed by Kratos, Mirmir, and Atreus. Like after you beat the final Valkyrie, and going through the warp tunnel, you learn the Freya is the true queen of the Valkyries and while Kratos and Atreus were finishing their journey, she came to ask Mirmir where her warrior spirit is hidden. So much story is in this game

The future fight with Freya as a raging Valkyrie is probably one of most anticipated fights ever. Almost more so than Thor.
 

chandoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,071
I dunno. In the midst of that fight, isn't he saying things like: "You shouldn't be here!" and "You're a long way from home!"?

Yeah, they fit a Jotunn as well, or even the possibility that he was looking for Atreas, but I don't think that's settled.

That's true and it probably won't be until Cory or someone clarifies it directly, right now we just have the cryptic dialogue between Kratos and Balder to go on.

What leads me to believe he was looking for Faye is things mentioned earlier and additional points like Balder mentioning that Kratos should already know why he's here .. which he would not since he hasn't had any contact with any of the Asgardians, but Faye would know exactly what he was there for.
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,927
AJ review is up:



Actually, throughout the entire game, even prior to the big reveal to Atreus, he's waaaaaay more knowledgeable than he should be. He even mentioned just "getting things" regarding languages he had never formally learned. Thing I didn't like about the reveal though was how he went from always seeking the approval of Kratos and seemingly being levelheaded for a kid, to being a major shithead drunk on power. Makes me wonder if all of the voices he's hearing are going to drive him crazy.

That is my interpretation as well. His sudden arrogance felt a bit unnatural and he showed a lot of regret when he saw himself in the visions in Helheim. I think Cory spoke about Atreus going through "God puberty" where he is unable to control himself at times, because the power that lies within him is just too overwhelming.
 
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Dragun

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,318
Thinking back even Modi was confused as to how Kratos could take his thunder. Feels like you can make case that no one knew who the hell Kratos was the entire game with Kratos assuming they we're searching for him, when in reality everyone was seeking answers from his wife.

Also, can someone explain to me actually why the Giants are all dead? I get that Odin and Thor fucked them up, but they are all over the place in Jottunheim, looks more like there was a fight there. Did I miss something?

I kinda assumed they all starved to death. Jottunheim was pretty barren and I think it's been a long time since closing the realm off.
 

chandoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,071
Thinking back even Modi was confused as to how Kratos could take his thunder. Feels like you can make case that no one knew who the hell Kratos was the entire game with Kratos assuming they we're searching for him, when in reality everyone was seeking answers from his wife.



I kinda assumed they all starved to death. Jottunheim was pretty barren and I think it's been a long time since closing the realm off.

Infighting over limited resources since they were barred from accessing any other realm ?

Odin couldn't access it anymore so we know for a fact the Asgardians didn't have anything to do with it. Maybe that's something the sequel will cover in detail.
 

The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,719
I dunno. In the midst of that fight, isn't he saying things like: "You shouldn't be here!" and "You're a long way from home!"?

Yeah, they fit a Jotunn as well, or even the possibility that he was looking for Atreas, but I don't think that's settled.
Cory already said in one of the spoilercasts that the game was a case of mistaken identity when they talk about Baldur actually looking for Faye. Also Kratos flat out says Baldur was actually looking for Faye when reach Jotunheim and see the stuff on the wall.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,589
so yesterday when i decided to 100% certain places and i didnt know were to start since i always took my sweet time investigating and what not i stumbled upon this site

http://www.powerpyx.com/

the best guides with video and/or text if thats your thing and i was clearing up places in seconds, im going to use this guide to clear up a lot of places in midgard after i defeat the queen tonight
 

Saint-14

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
14,477
Do you think he will stop saying it? I wish for him to start saying "son" but I only think he said it once or twice during the entire game.
Yeah, calling him "son" at the end is why I think he'll drop it, I think "boy" was used to show cold hearted Kratos and how he slowly learns to care more and show affection throughout the journey.
 

Knight613

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,767
San Francisco
Infighting over limited resources since they were barred from accessing any other realm ?

Odin couldn't access it anymore so we know for a fact the Asgardians didn't have anything to do with it. Maybe that's something the sequel will cover in detail.
I thought what happened was that Jotunheim was open for the longest time until Odin/Thor started killing them all so they had to destroy the door to it.
 

Zedelima

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,718
So after thinking...i've come up about this theory.

1- in the true ending, its not Atreus dream, but its the exact point where the sequel will begin. I think years will pass without no one bothering then, maybe one or two, and the game will begin before the ragnarok truly begins (a...year maybe?). To word correctly, yes he says its a dream, but i still think it will be the start of the second game.


2- Kratos will die, thats for sure, i just dont know when...if you see the mural, his death its very "near" of the other predictions, so maybe in the next game already?

3-I think Atreus will find a way to retrieve the Travel Stone, and go to another mytology ( maybe thats pretty obvious) and they mainly shows Egipyt things, so i think the future sequels after Norse will be there.
 

NameUser

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,015
I'm glad it didn't end with some crazy, giant boss battle. Overall this is one of my favorite games of all time. Which is shocking because I honestly thought I'd hate it.
 

Azzanadra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,806
Canada
I know some people are disappointed by Baldur's interpretation in this game, especially he is supposedly a god of light who is loved by all- Cory touches on this in the spoiler cast with Kinda Funny, saying that Baldur became who he is because he was literally loved and adored by all- that same love is what led to Freya to protect him and thus cast the enchantment that protects him from everything but also robs him of sensation, so he can be viewed as a tragic and ironic figure in how this very love drove him insane. So in a way, Baldur DOES stay true to the mythical description, but taken to its worst extreme. I just thought it was a brilliant subversion of the myth and I didn't think of it as I was playing. Maybe y'all did and things just fly over my head :p
 
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GameShrink

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,680
Atreus still waiting for that beard.

Yeah but I don't think he'll be redesigned because his model is already there

Loki will grow a beard too he's just waiting to be a man

What if the reason Loki goes ape-shit in the future is because he discovers he can't grow a beard and must make everything else suffer because of it? Incredibly plausible.
I'd be really sad if Atreus ends up being a typically masculine man. I think they really have to push the idea that he's different from Kratos. A fairer, gentler, more diplomatic character.

It wouldn't help the Ellie vs Atreus conversations, but I really like the idea of Atreus ending up as an LGBT character because (unlike Ellie) it would defy expectations and stereotypes. He spends a bit of time shapeshifting into women (both humans and animals) in mythology, even giving birth in that state, so it wouldn't be a stretch.
 

Orochinagis

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,548
Kratos being pissed of how he was toyed by freya is priceless but he quickly hide that feeling undestanding his son have a bigger role on the story
 

THE GUY

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,223
I mean the whole reason they probably avoided Egypt was because of the perceived backlash of playing a greek "white" man in a non-white mythology destroying everyone, going with another European mythology was the safer approach to continuing Kratos story

i mean remember this article https://killscreen.com/articles/thank-god-new-god-war-isnt-set-ancient-egypt/
There's a simple solution to this. Move on from Kratos in the next mythology. Atreus is clearly tied to him so leave him too. It's not necessary to continue with these characters. It seems like Kratos is going to finish up his story here, and that's fine. Atreus is Loki so doing more with him is pointless anyway.

Design a new God of War character that is an original character and insert him into either Egyptian or Japanese mythology. This allows them fresh avenues with the story and there are no restrictions either. They can still be part of the same universe but just go far back into the past before Kratos's time or something.
 

Dyno

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,309
Annoyingly I just discovered its possible to entirely miss a whole hidden chamber and be locked out of it at post game
 

TheBaldwin

Member
Feb 25, 2018
8,285
JUST Finsihed

Managed to avoid any spoilers. That loki twist was amazing

I just wonder whether there will be a major dlc, or whether the next game will focus on new mythology

EDIT: HOLY SHIT. i decided to go back to the house after i finished to clean up collectibles and see what dialogue would happen, went to bed and wow that got me hyped.

Really hope thats dlc ( if anya planned )
 
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Theorymon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,377
I'm pretty sure I'm near the end of the game, so I figured it was best to ask this here.

Currently, I'm doing Nifthelm stuff because that Mist armor sounds fucking nuts! However, on my first run, I'm doing the "Give Me God of War" difficulty, so I'm wondering: which mist armor set fits that difficulty the best? Really unsure which one to focus on!
 

Dany

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,065
seattle
After beating the game I fast traveled to our home. I can retrieve my steps of the tutorial mission. But it doesn't seem like I can terrace my steps after the baldor fight, where we begin our journey ??
 

EekumBokum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,562
so the thing about doing Hindu or South american mythology next is that if Atreus is going to be the next protagonist of the series, per Cory's words

than I just feel people will complain about the story focusing on a "white guy" in a non-white mythology...

they would have to have a second protagonist, native to that mythology that teams up with Atreus or there would be backlash, especially in today's age
Where was it said that Atreus is going to be the next protagonist? I'm interested in hearing or reading more about what Cory said regarding that.
 

Anubis

User requested permanent ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,392
So are we getting a prequel that outlines how Kratos met Faye and had a kid?

Wish they touched on the lead up to it instead of just hitting us with those facts.