SPOILERS - Second Super Smash Bros. Ultimate DLC Fighter Datamined

Mar 10, 2018
973
Scotland
Does anyone think they'll do any more Sonic characters? No third party series more deserving multiple reps imo. Tails could be a slower Sonic with lower jumps and the ability to hover like Peach, I'd also be down for an Eggman Bowser Jr echo.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,985
Brazil
It is weird for me to see people saying they would be sad with the choices because unless it is a non videogame choice (non videogame AND non nintendo) I will be happy and hyped regardless. It will not be a OMFG choice that would make me run on my street screaming like Tetrimino, Hanafuda or Stylist would, but still I am happy with what sakurai cook
 
Nov 18, 2017
1,777
I think the lack of substantial Xenoblade Chronicles 2 music and Sakurai choosing not to use any character from the game as an assist trophy leaves the door open.

Probably not for this game... but I do think the mii costumes, spirits and little music included - not to mention the Rex acknowledgment in the Direct - gives fans hope.

It feels like, if not now, next time. Even if the game will be old by then. The errr... appeal of Pyra/Mythra isn’t going away.

Minecraft is a huge draw and potentially a giant untapped market for Nintendo to draw in to Smash. I'd also prefer Banjo, but a choice between the two is an absolute no brainer of a business decision.
At the very least, Steve getting in opens the door to Microsoft content in Smash. I want Banjo badly as well, but Steve's in one of the biggest games on the planet. You already know what I mean.

Now if we get Banjo as a Mii Costume though, then I'll probably go crazy. (which would be ironic, Banjo didn't even get Avatar cosmetics for the 360).
Totally know what you’re both saying - as I said in my post - but I think the disappointment would be huge.

Imagine Phil getting up on stage and despite knowing the thirst for Banjo, announcing Steve.

Minecraft doesn’t need any selling and I honestly don’t think the people buying Character Pack #4 (or whatever) care about Steve - though I could be wrong.

Banjo, as a franchise, is dead. But bringing back the prodigal son would strike a cord with every Nintendo fan.

People can justify the likes of Doom Guy (who I’m not against) and Steve simply because they’ve appeared on Nintendo consoles.

But Banjo, Rare, Nintendo... the bear and bird in Smash would represent so much more than that.

He’s a beloved mascot of a bygone era, the star of a mishandled franchise, a reminder of when a plucky little British studio when toe-to-toe with Nintendo.

I get all the arguments, business or otherwise - but let’s get real.

Let’s talk to each other as gamers now rather than second guessing the bigwigs at Nintendo - Banjo > Steve.

Even if you didn’t like the games and preferred Mario, Banjo and Kazooie belong in this franchise.

Everyone focuses on Banjo but nobody weeps for the lack of a Blast Corps rep like I do. I'm picturing a Pokemon Trainer situation where you can Down B between all the different vehicles and robots.
*puts arm around shoulder*

Never give up!
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,015
Minecraft is a huge draw and potentially a giant untapped market for Nintendo to draw in to Smash. I'd also prefer Banjo, but a choice between the two is an absolute no brainer of a business decision.
I think that it being a "no brainer of a business decision" is actually fairly questionable. Do people who like Minecraft have any particular attachment to the character? And would they want to buy DLC of this character in a fighting game that has previously had no Minecraft content whatsoever? Steve doesn't rank very high in any Smash fan wishlists that I've seen. He's definitely behind someone like Banjo or Waluigi in fan requests. So basically the logic is that it's not established Smash fans who want him but that the character will attract a lot of Minecraft fans to Smash to then buy DLC for this one specific Minecraft character. This is a very not safe assumption. Maybe if Sakurai thought up of a really interesting moveset for him and was adamant that he be put in for that reason, but otherwise I'm skeptical.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,438
I think the lack of substantial Xenoblade Chronicles 2 music and Sakurai choosing not to use any character from the game as an assist trophy leaves the door open.

Probably not for this game... but I do think the mii costumes, spirits and little music included - not to mention the Rex acknowledgment in the Direct - gives fans hope.

It feels like, if not now, next time. Even if the game will be old by then. The errr... appeal of Pyra/Mythra isn’t going away.





Totally know what you’re both saying - as I said in my post - but I think the disappointment would be huge.

Imagine Phil getting up on stage and despite knowing the thirst for Banjo, announcing Steve.

Minecraft doesn’t need any selling and I honestly don’t think the people buying Character Pack #4 (or whatever) care about Steve - though I could be wrong.

Banjo, as a franchise, is dead. But bringing back the prodigal son would strike a cord with every Nintendo fan.

People can justify the likes of Doom Guy (who I’m not against) and Steve simply because they’ve appeared on Nintendo consoles.

But Banjo, Rare, Nintendo... the bear and bird in Smash would represent so much more than that.

He’s a beloved mascot of a bygone era, the star of a mishandled franchise, a reminder of when a plucky little British studio when toe-to-toe with Nintendo.

I get all the arguments, business or otherwise - but let’s get real.

Let’s talk to each other as gamers now rather than second guessing the bigwigs at Nintendo - Banjo > Steve.

Even if you didn’t like the games and preferred Mario, Banjo and Kazooie belong in this franchise.



*puts arm around shoulder*

Never give up!
Not many third party characters can boast that they used to be owned by Nintendo. I'm right there with you, I'll never lose hope. At least, I'll never shut up about it.
 
Nov 18, 2017
1,777
Banjo must come before Steve, there is no question about it.
If Microsoft had any sense they’d be working with Nintendo to bring Banjo back.

They’ve got an older demographic, who don’t want platformers and the company itself is heading in a service-centric direction. There’s no way to really monetise Banjo.

But that doesn’t mean they can’t profit off the IP.

Kill it with fire!

Not many third party characters can boast that they used to be owned by Nintendo. I'm right there with you, I'll never lose hope. At least, I'll never shut up about it.
We’ll go down on this ship together! :P
 
Dec 28, 2017
4,906
Minecraft is a huge draw and potentially a giant untapped market for Nintendo to draw in to Smash. I'd also prefer Banjo, but a choice between the two is an absolute no brainer of a business decision.
People always make this argument and idk
I think Smash is a monster seller on it's own without needing to lean on any third parties. Especially not Microsoft. That rumor has never made any sense to me and I'll continue to treat it as bs until we see something official.
 

2n2

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,445
I don't really know much of anything about Fortnite characters or their lore but the main thing that would have me suspicious isn't that their western characters or that they don't have defined names/roles, it's that my assumption is that the Fortnite phenomenon is too new for this to have ever been on the radar of Nintendo/Sakurai when they were thinking about and finalizing DLC plans.
As far as we know, DLC was chosen by Nintendo, verified as being feasible to make by Sakurai, & finalized on November 6, 2018. While I don't personally expect a Fortnite character, Fortnite would have already established itself as a force of nature in the gaming industry well before then.
I doubt that date is literally when it was finalized. I think that is just when he tweeted that is was finalized so people knew it's been decided already and to stop bugging him with requests. That was shortly after the direct where he (arguably) said the lineup had been decided (i.e. Rex Mii outfit explanation), yet because they didn't reveal them, it still gave if the impression to many they were still up in the air. They were seemingly gettting bombarded with requests as a result.

It is likely they decided DLC some time ago where stuff like Arms and Fortnite didn't really work with their timing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
904
Yeah, everyone's going to react to the roster differently. I'm happy for K. Rool fans finally getting their boy and he does work really well in the final game, but Dark Samus, Chrom and Isabelle were just "are you kidding me?" announcements. But I'm also just not a big fan of the Echo Fighter concept in general.

The last character announcement I was actually happy about for myself was the surprise Richter reveal, and it's been...rough since then.
Isabelle ain’t an echo
 

Neoxon

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,009
Houston, TX
I doubt that date is literally when it was finalized. I think that is just when he tweeted that is was finalized so people knew it's been decided already and to stop bugging him with requests. That was shortly after the direct where he (arguably) said the lineup had been decided (i.e. Rex Mii outfit explanation), yet because they didn't reveal them, it gave if the impression to many they were still up in the air. They were seemingly gettting bombarded with requests as a result.

It is likely they decided DLC some time ago where stuff like Arms and Fortnite didn't really work with their timing.
That would put DLC as being decided back in mid-2017, which wouldn’t really add up with how Sakurai spoke of the DLC.
 

2n2

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,445
That would put DLC as being decided back in mid-2017, which wouldn’t really add up with how Sakurai spoke of the DLC.
What else did he say about the DLC besides the last Direct and those Twitter comments?

Everything I've seen him say could easily be interpreted to mean it has been decided for some time. Unfortunately, many would say just the opposite based on the same language. Unless someone asks him to specifically clarify with zero room for interpretation in an interview, there is always going to be dissenting opinions on what he meant.
 

Neoxon

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,009
Houston, TX
What else did he say about the DLC besides the last Direct and those Twitter comments?

Everything I've seen him say could easily be interpreted to mean it has been decided for some time. Unfortunately, many would say just the opposite based on the same language. Unless someone asks him to specifically clarify with zero room for interpretation in an interview, there is always going to be dissenting opinions on what he meant.
So you believe the DLC was decided back in 2017?
 
Feb 20, 2018
455
Yeah, add me into the Banjo over Steve camp, obviously. The idea that that six cube grotesquerie would be chosen over Nintendo’s prodigal children Banjo and Kazooie is enough to make me feel sick. I know Steve and Minecraft are a huge deal for gaming as a whole, but in the hearts of longtime dedicated Nintendo fans, there’s only one right choice to make, and it’s to bring the bear and bird home. I’d be totally for all the rest of the rumor’s characters but Steve alone has me hoping it’s fake. I have to believe that Nintendo wouldn’t crush the hopes of their longtime fans like that.
 
Apr 8, 2018
3,308
People always make this argument and idk
I think Smash is a monster seller on it's own without needing to lean on any third parties. Especially not Microsoft. That rumor has never made any sense to me and I'll continue to treat it as bs until we see something official.
I'm not saying I believe any of the rumors and I'm not saying Smash needs third parties. Like...at all. I'm saying Minecraft reaches an entirely different (and huge) audience and Banjo reaches nobody new. I'm also not saying Banjo wouldn't sell, cause he absolutely would.
I think that it being a "no brainer of a business decision" is actually fairly questionable. Do people who like Minecraft have any particular attachment to the character? And would they want to buy DLC of this character in a fighting game that has previously had no Minecraft content whatsoever? Steve doesn't rank very high in any Smash fan wishlists that I've seen. He's definitely behind someone like Banjo or Waluigi in fan requests. So basically the logic is that it's not established Smash fans who want him but that the character will attract a lot of Minecraft fans to Smash to then buy DLC for this one specific Minecraft character. This is a very not safe assumption. Maybe if Sakurai thought up of a really interesting moveset for him and was adamant that he be put in for that reason, but otherwise I'm skeptical.
Do you know how insane the Minecraft community is? Spend time around Minecraft kids and you'll understand. Minecraft being in Smash also guarantees you get a bunch of Minecraft YouTubers making mention of it, reacting to the reveal, reaching an audience that may not even know about Smash. People downplaying the impact Minecraft would have in Smash are being short-sighted.
 

2n2

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,445
So you believe the DLC was decided back in 2017?
Possibly, yeah. I don't know for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if they scoped it out 6 months to a year in advance. I imagine there's a lot of planning and negotiations that can take a long time. It doesn't seem to extreme to me. Wasn't the game in development for four years?
 

Neoxon

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,009
Houston, TX
Possibly, yeah. I don't know for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if they scoped it out 6 months to a year in advance. I imagine there's a lot of planning and negotiations that can take a long time. It doesn't seem to extreme to me. Wasn't the game in development for four years?
Development started on February 2016, with the base roster being locked in 2 months prior.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,015
I'm not saying I believe any of the rumors and I'm not saying Smash needs third parties. Like...at all. I'm saying Minecraft reaches an entirely different (and huge) audience and Banjo reaches nobody new. I'm also not saying Banjo wouldn't sell, cause he absolutely would.

Do you know how insane the Minecraft community is? Spend time around Minecraft kids and you'll understand. Minecraft being in Smash also guarantees you get a bunch of Minecraft YouTubers making mention of it, reacting to the reveal, reaching an audience that may not even know about Smash. People downplaying the impact Minecraft would have in Smash are being short-sighted.
Smash was a very heavily advertised game, I'm not sure how much more effective youtube "influencers" would be in this regard. If, in theory, a Minecraft kid had no interest in Smash would they then buy a brand new game and then spend money to buy DLC to play as Steve. It makes far more business sense for Nintendo to go for characters that are requested or has overlap with a Smash fanbase. Although Nintendo could probably put anyone has DLC and they'd sell I'm sure. I'm just not sure that the logic of Steve from Minecraft being a good pick from a business perspective is true, not anymore than anyone else.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,475
Smash was a very heavily advertised game, I'm not sure how much more effective youtube "influencers" would be in this regard. If, in theory, a Minecraft kid had no interest in Smash would they then buy a brand new game and then spend money to buy DLC to play as Steve. It makes far more business sense for Nintendo to go for characters that are requested or has overlap with a Smash fanbase. Although Nintendo could probably put anyone has DLC and they'd sell I'm sure. I'm just not sure that the logic of Steve from Minecraft being a good pick from a business perspective is true, not anymore than anyone else.
Yeah, this weird narrative like Smash Bros. needs help to get attention is puzzling to me. It's freaking Smash Bros.
 
Apr 8, 2018
3,308
Smash was a very heavily advertised game, I'm not sure how much more effective youtube "influencers" would be in this regard. If, in theory, a Minecraft kid had no interest in Smash would they then buy a brand new game and then spend money to buy DLC to play as Steve. It makes far more business sense for Nintendo to go for characters that are requested or has overlap with a Smash fanbase. Although Nintendo could probably put anyone has DLC and they'd sell I'm sure. I'm just not sure that the logic of Steve from Minecraft being a good pick from a business perspective is true, not anymore than anyone else.
Smash is huge, but it isn't all encompassing. There are absolutely a ton of kids or people way into Minecraft out there who don't know what Smash is. You're kidding yourself if you think Minecraft in Smash wouldn't be a big deal. And again, I'm saying this as someone who doesn't give a fuck, but is around kids enough to know it would be a big deal.
Yeah, this weird narrative like Smash Bros. needs help to get attention is puzzling to me. It's freaking Smash Bros.
Literally nobody is saying that.
 

2n2

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,445
Development started on February 2016, with the base roster being locked in 2 months prior.
I see. But yeah, I still think it's possible the DLC was determined in 2017. Maybe someone who's worked on a major game can chime in on what sort of lead times stuff like this can have. As a Rock Band fan, I've gotten use to the devs saying "licensing is hard". I know that's music but it probably is true for other stuff too.
 
May 9, 2018
542
Random thought, there’s so much weird shit in Fortnite that they probably could make a decent Smash moveset. Building walls, using jetpacks, the various cartoony guns, etc. It’s not my favorite idea or anything, but the moveset potential is definitely there.
 

2n2

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,445
Random thought, there’s so much weird shit in Fortnite that they probably could make a decent Smash moveset. Building walls, using jetpacks, the various cartoony guns, etc. It’s not my favorite idea or anything, but the moveset potential is definitely there.
I'm of the opinion that any competent fighting game dev can make a workable moveset for any character.
 
Oct 29, 2017
759
Los Angeles
Does anyone think they'll do any more Sonic characters? No third party series more deserving multiple reps imo. Tails could be a slower Sonic with lower jumps and the ability to hover like Peach, I'd also be down for an Eggman Bowser Jr echo.
Yes please! Both both! One day Nintendo will own the Sonic franchise and Sonic, Knuckles, Tails and Eggman will be playable.
 

GenG

Member
Oct 26, 2017
308
Does anyone think they'll do any more Sonic characters? No third party series more deserving multiple reps imo. Tails could be a slower Sonic with lower jumps and the ability to hover like Peach, I'd also be down for an Eggman Bowser Jr echo.
Alucard for CV and Zero for Megaman are equally deserving. The detail in both AT gives me hope for next time.
 

Neoxon

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,009
Houston, TX
I see. But yeah, I still think it's possible the DLC was determined in 2017. Maybe someone who's worked on a major game can chime in on what sort of lead times stuff like this can have. As a Rock Band fan, I've gotten use to the devs saying "licensing is hard". I know that's music but it probably is true for other stuff too.
At the earliest, I could see the characters being decided upon in early 2018, with negotiations going up to 11/6/18 (November 6th). As for your other justifications...
  • You have a point about how recent Fortnite’s success is, but Sakurai has historically been gunshy regarding new Nintendo IPs (thus explaining ARMS’s absence). The AT would have thus taken the series out of the DLC running.
  • Had DLC been decided earlier than 2018, we would have had more leaks given how leaky Ultimate’s reveals have been.
With that said, I should correct myself by saying that everyone but Incineroar was decided on December 2015. A Pokémon slot was reserved at the time, which was later taken up by Incineroar.
 
Oct 27, 2017
13,086
I can buy that the DLC was all decided earlier. I imagine Nintendo had a list of characters for Sakurai, and he said who he could make work, and Nintendo went out and got the rights to those characters. The people who knew would have to be really small. And actual development on the characters didn't start until after the base game was completed.
 
OP
OP
MondoMega
Jan 10, 2018
7,011
Sydney, Australia
If you guys are interested, Mizumi (the person who put the Piranha Plant parameters over Bowser Jr. yesterday) is currently putting Brave's stats over Ike to get a feel for how they will play (assuming they aren't changed before release). Right now he's copying over the params, but he'll be playing with him soon on stream.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,124
Beaumont, CA
I can relate to that. The Inklings were practically a given, and with the exception of the Belmonts, Ultimate's base newcomers basically does nothing for me. Just seeing how some people react to the very idea of Ryu Hayabusa in Smash has been... disheartening somewhat.
Honestly, I was pretty much the same, except even the Belmonts did nothing for me (never played CV). Erdrick is the first character I’m really excited to see despite not being 100 percent confirmed. Despite not getting who I really wanted (Elma would’ve been my other pick), I’ve been really happy with the game overall and am just happy to see people having a good time. It’s why I get a little ticked off at PlanetSmasher ’s posts. I’m excited for a character they aren’t and seeing the constant “I’m not happy” instead of just taking or leaving it rubs me the wrong way.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,546
Elysium
If you guys are interested, Mizumi (the person who put the Piranha Plant parameters over Bowser Jr. yesterday) is currently putting Brave's stats over Ike to get a feel for how they will play (assuming they aren't changed before release). Right now he's copying over the params, but he'll be playing with him soon on stream.
How can he play with an unrevealed character?
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,475
Honestly, I was pretty much the same, except even the Belmonts did nothing for me (never played CV). Erdrick is the first character I’m really excited to see despite not being 100 percent confirmed. Despite not getting who I really wanted (Elma would’ve been my other pick), I’ve been really happy with the game overall and am just happy to see people having a good time. It’s why I get a little ticked off at PlanetSmasher ’s posts. I’m excited for a character they aren’t and seeing the constant “I’m not happy” instead of just taking or leaving it rubs me the wrong way.
At the same regard, at some point it gets frustrating to feel like the only person not being invited to the party.