SSB was designed to be a party game, but how many people actually play it as Sakurai intended?

[ynthrepic]

I am especially interested in the opinions of or statistics concerning dedicated fans of the series who still play the game regularly, but are not necessarily interested in "competitive" (meaning tournament, or professional) play. In other words, the long term play statistics of the game.

Do these players generally play with time and items on, making full use of all the stages and the character roster? Or do they disable most of the RNG and stick to balance stages to make the play experience more competitive?

It is my theory (based on my very limited experience) that the half-life of any party-game is pretty short, and that those who treat SSB like a party-game, probably enjoyed it for a few months, and then moved on. I believe that when it comes to busting out the WiiU or Wii, SSB just isn't as fun as other party games (like Mario Party, Warioware*, etc.) when it comes to entertaining guests. This is because it's very random, and at the same time, still just a little bit too complicated to just pick up and play without experience.

I guess I'm interested in the answer to this question because it baffles me that Nintendo continues to develop and market SSB as primarily a party-game. If I was being uncharitable, I would say that they are merely concerned with outright sales figures and the honeymoon period, and they are less concerned with dedicated players (whether competitive or casual) who pick up and play the game many months or years after its initial release. But if I was to give Nintendo the benefit of the doubt, then I must surely be wrong.

 

[ara]

I play them solely as party games. Not interested in the competitive aspect in the least. The chaos is the part I enjoy about them.

 

[Zalman]

I just had five people over last weekend and we played it as a party game with items on.

 

[Sampson]

I play them solely as party games. Not interested in the competitive aspect in the least.

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[Waxy]

Me and my friends play it as a party game. We go random teams or random characters. With Smash 4 we would sometimes pick the smallest map with the 8 biggest characters, etc.

We tend to play with items off tho, except the Smash balls. We got those turned on high so they show up as much as possible

 

[Kirblar]

The vast majority of players in any game play casually, not competitively.

Your theory is completely wrong and doesn't match the play (and business) reality of how games actually function.

 

[Alcibiades]

I play with items on and on a wide variety of stages with characters I like (i.e. not based on tiers).

 

[Neptonic]

All my friends turn items off immediately except for smash balls, and if we have more than 2 players it's team battles only

 

[Clov]

My friends and I never play time matches, but we do play with items on. It's just so much more fun that way.

We do turn off certain stages we find annoying though. Stuff like Pac-Land and 75m just aren't enjoyable to us.

 

[Iztok]

I havent played it much, but yes always as a party game.

 

[Mario_Bones]

I play it part-way between party and competitive. I don't spend time investigating advanced techniques or playing against strangers but there's some of the party aspects that definitely go too far for my tastes. Even if I do play with items on I have heaps of them turned off because they're too obtrusive, and in the most recent Smashes I've found myself turning off more and more stages from the random select because their gimmicks just aren't fun to play on. Gearing too much towards either crowd would take away too much from what Smash is - it's got to be accessible and wacky so everyone can pick it up and have fun, but at the same time competitive balancing is what gives it depth and staying power

 

[dumbyugi]

I play with items on most the time. I also try out all the stages at least once but always end up not playing on certain stages for various reasons, be it shitty hazards I don't like or just because I don't like the theme as much as other stages. I've got no issue playing without items but it does get rid of a lot of the fun for me. Always play stocks though, fuck timed matches.

 

[Dyle]

Sakurai doesn't intend for anyone to play the game in one specific way, that's why you have so many options to change everything. However I have never met a single person, no matter the skill level, who prefers time over stock

 

[sschol]

I play it as a party game, the idea of playing competitive just doesn't make sense to me personally. Feels overly serious.

 

[Paz]

Not a single person in my social circle plays it as anything other than a party game, and my net is pretty wide.

I've been to tournaments for it though and respect that side (Former Warcraft 3 competitive player myself).

Majority of players will always be casual imo.

 

[ynthrepic]

I play them solely as party games. Not interested in the competitive aspect in the least.

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How would you rate the game as a party-game, in terms of enjoyment level and hours played per session?

 

[TheYanger]

Regarding the thread title: Almost everyone that doesn't play in tournaments, so...the vast vast majority of people.

How would you rate the game as a party-game, in terms of enjoyment level and hours played per session?

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Smash never got old as a party game. We're talking llike hundreds of hours of 4 player smash over the years.

 

[Unicorn]

Do you all play Stock matches or Time matches?

 

[JoeInky]

Never played it as a party game even since smash 64.

Mario party is a party game, mario kart is a party game, smash is a fighter with a shitload of depth that gets muddled and less interesting when you play with the extraneous shit.

You basically swap out depth and strategy for chaos and randomness when you play it as a party game, which is fine, I have no problem with that. But I hate this idea that Sakurai stans have that the game can't be both, or this weird fucking revisionist history about melee and 64.

 

[Zalman]

Sakurai doesn't intend for anyone to play the game in one specific way, that's why you have so many options to change everything. However I have never met a single person, no matter the skill level, who prefers time over stock

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Time is preferable when playing with beginners because they don't have to wait for the match to be over if they get knocked out early.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

It's one of my favorite party games of all time. Spent countless hours playing matches online in Brawl (and trading custom made stages).

 

[Deleted member 35077]

A party game can be played competitively, even with randomness, a good example of this Monopoly.

 

[TheYanger]

Never played it as a party game even since smash 64.

Mario party is a party game, mario kart is a party game, smash is a fighter with a shitload of depth that gets muddled and less interesting when you play with the extraneous shit.

You basically swap out depth and strategy for chaos and randomness when you play it as a party game, which is fine, I have no problem with that. But I hate this idea that Sakurai stans have that the game can't be both, or this weird fucking revisionist history about melee and 64.

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revisionist in what way? Most people play the game that way. I certainly odn't think the 'depth' drives casual players away, because it's completely invisible to the average user. Shit like tripping was dumb because EVERYONE sees tripping, it doesn't increase anyone's enjoyment. Wavedashing, on the other hand, didn't diminish the enjoyment of those that don't do it.

 

[Laxoon]

This is because it's very random, and at the same time, still just a little bit too complicated to just pick up and play without experience.

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This rings true in my experience. I have a lot of friends who like to play it different ways but the more casual ones think it's just complicated enough that they would rather play any other multiplayer game.
These players usually do move on pretty quick, as I did with Brawl (until PM) since there was just not much joy in even casual matches after the singleplayer content was all done.

 

[Wonderrade]

It may have been thought as a party game, but sakurai has always had the idea of it being open to many different kinds of playstyles. Playing competitively does not go against sakurai's intentions.

 

[Kyari]

It's only ever been a party game to my friends and I over the years, but please just make Stock default.

 

[chrisypoo]

Do you all play Stock matches or Time matches?

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Always stock, I hate time matches.

 

[Ometeotl]

A thousand times more than there are those who play it competitively.

 

[JCW]

Kinda? We turn off the really stupid items and don't play on the really stupid stages (the huge stages other than Temple, stages with bosses, etc) but we leave stuff like Smash Balls/Pokeballs/Assist Trophies on and pretty much all of the roster gets used.

Also yeah I play on stock.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

You're asking the wrong people here. Smash Bros games sell upwards of 10 million copies; while there aren't even 100,000 people on this forum (or more than 250,000 accounts on Smashboards for that matter; and that also includes dead and dupe accounts).

The people here are not representative of the main populace who play Smash Bros.

 

[Anni]

I've played a bunch of 8 player smash in full party mode, and never really dabbled with teams. That seems really fun, especially for less experienced players who would still be able to get a win. Just kind of forgot about it.

 

[Rendering...]

I play Smash solo or with a small group, stock only, with like half of the bullshit items turned off. I also have zero patience for stage hazards, and my friends are right there on the same page.

 

[JoeInky]

revisionist in what way? Most people play the game that way. I certainly odn't think the 'depth' drives casual players away, because it's completely invisible to the average user. Shit like tripping was dumb because EVERYONE sees tripping, it doesn't increase anyone's enjoyment. Wavedashing, on the other hand, didn't diminish the enjoyment of those that don't do it.

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The revisionist aspect isn't about the thread topic at hand really, but more just the general idea I see a lot that smash can only be a party game and that's why the series had to regress after Melee because it was too technical, rather than evolving the formula like Melee did with 64, it's as if they try to say people didn't enjoy 64 and Melee as party games despite the fact that they could easily cater to both audiences.

 

[ynthrepic]

Just to be clear, when I say a 'party-game' I guess I'm talking about just playing the game from time to time for shits and giggles, as opposed to playing regularly with friends who know and enjoy the game.

I also quite enjoy items to some extent, but as time progressed from released we would more and more want to feel the satisfaction of having bested each other with skill, rather than with the luck of getting any items that would confer an unfair advantage.

My theory is that most long-term players care about how their skill level compares to their friends whom they play with regularly, as opposed to approaching the game in pure party-game style, without much care for whether they win or lose. Instead, choosing Mario Kart or Warioware for those moments when you just want to mess around.

 

[TheYanger]

You're asking the wrong people here. Smash Bros games sell upwards of 10 million copies; while there aren't even 100,000 people on this forum (or more than 250,000 accounts on Smashboards for that matter; and that also includes dead and dupe accounts).

The people here are not representative of the main populace who play Smash Bros.

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That's not how being representative works.

Era is a pretty audience neutral forum, other than being gaming enthusiasts. If anything it will likely skew slightly more 'hardcore/not a party game' here, but not a ton.

 

[TheYanger]

The revisionist aspect isn't about the thread topic at hand really, but more just the general idea I see a lot that smash can only be a party game and that's why the series had to regress after Melee because it was too technical, rather than evolving the formula like Melee did with 64, it's as if they try to say people didn't enjoy 64 and Melee as party games despite the fact that they could easily cater to both audiences.

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Ok, then we agree. I don't think the hardcore fans need to be catered to specifically, but they don't need to be fought against either, as a party game whether you leave advanced shit in or not has no effect on the game.

 

[BDS]

I prefer to play with items off, but of course the average casual person prefers items on. When playing with them, I usually request a compromise where we turn off the most annoying items.

 

[Salty Rice]

99% play them as party games like they should be.

The Smash FGC while big is still a minority compared to the audience of the games.

 

[Dyle]

Time is preferable when playing with beginners because they don't have to wait for the match to be over if they get knocked out early.

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In theory, but it also makes matches less rewarding, makes it harder to watch and tell who's winning, and makes it a little more chaotic. When I ran Smash out of my dorm no one regardless of skill level asked for time matches, while lots of people had varying opinions on items. In my experience, casual players get frustrated with time and items specifically because both options make for a more random, chaotic game that only increases the gap between skilled and unskilled players.

 

[1upsuper]

With my friends we typically play items off with random stage selection. I usually go with random character select, just because I like to get some familiarity with the whole cast, but I obviously have a handful of main characters when I want to really dig in.

 

[JoeInky]

Just to be clear, when I say a 'party-game' I guess I'm talking about just playing the game from time to time for shits and giggles, as opposed to playing regularly with friends who know and enjoy the game.

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Yeah, I thought this might be what the thread was about but with the rest of the posts I figured I was wrong.

The more a smash leans into "party game" the less longevity it has for me. Random shit happening gets old real fast and if you don't have the gameplay depth there to want me to come back to it, it's not happening. If I have some people who aren't into games around, we're busting out the mario party, or the mario kart or maybe something like overcooked even, nobody wants to play smash because it isn't simple enough to be a party game.

My gamecube and my N64 are still under my TV ready to be hooked up when we want to play them whereas my Wii and WiiU are boxed away now.

 

[Deleted member 8593]

100% as a party game with friends, which worked perfectly well with Melee. Brawl and Smash 4 didn't have the longevity, the former because of the gameplay, the latter because of the platform.

 

[Yoshi88]

100 % party play. All items,stages, time limit 4 min.

It's Smash. It's the easiest Beat 'em Up to play (for newcomers and returners alike) there is. It's bascially the definition of "Pick up 'n play". And it's huge simple fun, because there is something for everyone.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

I only play it 1v1, no items, stages with no BS.

And of course I know I'm not in the majority, and it's cool, Smash is a game that appeals to different types of gamers and that's a good thing.

 

[Skronk]

Smash is and will always be a party game that pro players have twisted into something competitive. I hope they never make it with a competitive mindset.

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

Items were fun for a while but after finding out how well it played as a fighter, its not fun to randomly lose to a random item spawn just like its annoying when someone has good luck in a game of Monopoly.

 

[ynthrepic]

A thousand times more than there are those who play it competitively.

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If we a clear about our definitions, is it still thousands, and what about 1 month after release? What about 6 months?

If I was to break the player base into 'purely casual/party', 'regular casual', 'competitive', and 'competitive/professional' my guess is that 'regular casual' represents the greatest proportion of players after about 3-6 months from purchasing the game, and that these players make at least some changes to the setup to improve its "competitiveness". Which is just to say they care about how good they are at the game compared to their friends, and make steps to even the playing field.

 

[Zeno]

Yeah. I've never played competitively or been upset about losing.

 

[Xaszatm]

I like how competitive is this own category as if pokeball slapfights aren't a thing in the competitive community as well.

 

[MidnightCowboy]

Items off 99.9% of the time for me and my friends. With Smash 4 tho we played with custom builds more often than not, which was pretty damn fun.