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elyetis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,556
Did we get any...dates?
Nop but they did say they would improve/rework the shedule page ( next week I think ? ). CR also said they would now aim for date release not content release when it comes to patchs, to get us quaterly patch release and avoid a new drough like we got this year.
All of that sounds good on paper, let's see how things actually goes next year.
 

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,931
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
So I did some catching up on watch the CR keynote presentation. ArcCorp looks utterly fantastic from a visual perspective, I found my self shaking my head in disbelief multiple times at the beautfy of the art in its scale. I am not sure how they do the city light glow from orbital elevations, but darn if it does not look "just right".
Also, the confidences / swagger of them starting the quantumn drive and then starting a parallell demo of the tools for creating cities in the game was just wonderful. This Citcon presentation was CIG coming out in a confident / developer focused manner, it was really mature. I really enjoyed all the separate panels, and the technical details. You could definitely tell that the fans present loved it too, Ivo Herzeg's talk was getting cheers and you could hear his joy at that response: really wonderful stuff.

I really look forward to the holiday live stream.

ALSO BECAUSE I AM WHO I AM:
glass_diffu2u3a.gif

ssdo_diffd9uyx.gif


Also, get hyped for motion blur!
vlcsnap-2017-10-28-11s7uc1.png
 
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LiQuid!

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,986
I'm desperate to see what this game looks and feels like when it's populated with NPCs and things to do. Something that always gets me with games like this is you always got some kind of procedural quest system that gives you a lot of repeatable things to do but very little feels worthwhile. Since you can literally buy your way into having a great ship in this game with real world currency, I'm wondering what kind of gameplay loops and long term goals I'm going to be able to set for myself, because that's what keeps me putting dozens of hours into games like this.

I'd love to be able to buy in small, piloting a garbage scow or some beater around space and work my way up to being some sort of rich space robber baron.
 

Staticneuron

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,187
I'm desperate to see what this game looks and feels like when it's populated with NPCs and things to do. Something that always gets me with games like this is you always got some kind of procedural quest system that gives you a lot of repeatable things to do but very little feels worthwhile. Since you can literally buy your way into having a great ship in this game with real world currency, I'm wondering what kind of gameplay loops and long term goals I'm going to be able to set for myself, because that's what keeps me putting dozens of hours into games like this.

I'd love to be able to buy in small, piloting a garbage scow or some beater around space and work my way up to being some sort of rich space robber baron
.

You are misunderstanding a few things. First of all after game leaves beta you will no longer be able to purchase any ships with cash. And the main misunderstanding is that the bigger ships are better. Each of the more expensive or larger ship is a different mechanic for role based gameplay. If you are someone who prefers to play solo and not worry about investment before a mission, you will most likely stick with single or two-seater ship. The larger ships may need more crew to perform adequately which means more expensive to get up and running. Jump points may be different as well as mechanics you are looking for. So if you are thinking along the lines of RPG like progression or endgame is a massive ship, then you are going to be very disappointed when the final product is out.

If you look at the sandbox nature of the game and the fact that backers may already have role based ship another way of looking at it, is that you could simply earn money on someone else's ship instead of worrying about the cost to maintain your own. The fact that all the investors have purchased different role based ships, means there should be services or gameplay loops formed right from the jump. And this is going to lead into some unique experiences.
 

Compsiox

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,062
I can't believe there's so little talk about this presentation. The tech is incredible. I'm curious to see if they'll be able to make the gameplay as good as the tech is.
 

KKRT

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,544
I can't believe there's so little talk about this presentation. The tech is incredible. I'm curious to see if they'll be able to make the gameplay as good as the tech is.
Probably because presentation didnt hit mainstream media yet and a lot of people are still not aware of it.
 

LiQuid!

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,986
You are misunderstanding a few things.
Thanks for the clarification. I'm largely ignorant about the game honestly. Will you be able to own multiple ships and/or serve on multiple different ship crews? Could I own my own small cargo ship to be a space trader at times but then join a friend's space pirate crew later? That would be awesome.
 

Zephy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,170
I really want this game to be great, as it reprensents the ultimate game for me (basically a space game where you can do everything and go everywhere), but I just don't think it is possible to make a genuinely good and coherent game out of so many different components. No way the whole thing can hold together. But I'm hoping I'm wrong. I've already bought it anyway (in some flash sale a while back where I paid like 15$ for it).

Regardless, the new content always looks breathtakingly good.
 

Mengy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,407
This is going to sound absurd but the thing I'm most interested in is setting up races with other players with that hoverbike thing. Set a few beacons on the ground industrial sections and go wild.

Nothing crazy about that at all, lots of players do just this in Elite Dangerous, both with ships and the planet surface SRV's. It can be great fun!
 

Almeister

Member
Oct 25, 2017
962
Good on them for pulling off such a slick set of presentations (even with the usual last-minute-build-coming-in-hot situation). A solid SQ42 showing in December and they will be looking at a positive end to what, until now, was looking like a pretty negative year for Star Citizen.
 

Veidt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
511
They showed some fantastic stuff in those presentations, been checking some bits here and there. Probably their best showing so far.
 
OP
OP
Boss

Boss

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
951
Nice to see the thread pick-up a little. I still can't believe they were able to pull it off! Many people have only seen the ArcCorp gifs, but they went to another planet with a city afterwards, and at THIS level of fidelity. An outstanding accomplishment from the people at CIG to make that a reality.
 
Oct 25, 2017
229
When you compare this presentation to their first iteration of planet tech, you can see how incredibly far they've come. And they're not finished yet.



To me, this brings up a larger point. I think that they had a plan when they started crowdfunding. The scope changed with the incredible and unexpected success of that campaign. At that juncture, procedural planets were still just a "maybe we'll make planets that aren't just flat textures someday" stretch goal. Marco Corbetta's breakthrough (in his spare time, no less) really made them have to decide whether to reach for the stars or stick to the plan. I, for one, am glad that they chose the former, although I totally understand people who just wanted a new Wing Commander being unhappy. This has led to massive delays for both Star Citizen and Squadron 42 but I think we'll be getting something infinitely richer in the end.

Thanks, Marco!
 

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
When you compare this presentation to their first iteration of planet tech, you can see how incredibly far they've come. And they're not finished yet.



To me, this brings up a larger point. I think that they had a plan when they started crowdfunding. The scope changed with the incredible and unexpected success of that campaign. At that juncture, procedural planets were still just a "maybe we'll make planets that aren't just flat textures someday" stretch goal. Marco Corbetta's breakthrough (in his spare time, no less) really made them have to decide whether to reach for the stars or stick to the plan. I, for one, am glad that they chose the former, although I totally understand people who just wanted a new Wing Commander being unhappy. This has led to massive delays for both Star Citizen and Squadron 42 but I think we'll be getting something infinitely richer in the end.

Thanks, Marco!


From what I understand, even with the massive monetary success, planets were still only a research topic (you see it in stretch goals as only "investigate"), that would be integrated down the line. It was the frankfurt people that pushed to have it integrated as a necessary baseline.

Also :

https://youtu.be/2jcCwDs2rbw?t=306

haha
 
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wrongway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
939
Watching the keynote now. This fly away from the old social hub is just amazing. I still don't know if this will ever actually be a game, but the tech never fails to impress. Just wow.
 

Staticneuron

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,187
When you compare this presentation to their first iteration of planet tech, you can see how incredibly far they've come. And they're not finished yet.



To me, this brings up a larger point. I think that they had a plan when they started crowdfunding. The scope changed with the incredible and unexpected success of that campaign. At that juncture, procedural planets were still just a "maybe we'll make planets that aren't just flat textures someday" stretch goal. Marco Corbetta's breakthrough (in his spare time, no less) really made them have to decide whether to reach for the stars or stick to the plan. I, for one, am glad that they chose the former, although I totally understand people who just wanted a new Wing Commander being unhappy. This has led to massive delays for both Star Citizen and Squadron 42 but I think we'll be getting something infinitely richer in the end.

Thanks, Marco!



During early stages it was the backers that chose the direction and the BDSSE idea was pushed. The backers pushed for the change loudly and the people who only wanted small elements were outliers then ad they are now. But yea, everything was research until breakthroughs were made and they were sure they could do this. They have spawned some fantastic tools since then.
 
Oct 25, 2017
229
During early stages it was the backers that chose the direction and the BDSSE idea was pushed. The backers pushed for the change loudly and the people who only wanted small elements were outliers then ad they are now. But yea, everything was research until breakthroughs were made and they were sure they could do this. They have spawned some fantastic tools since then.

They do indeed have some incredible tools. I guess my point, perhaps made in-artfully, is that the planetary tech breakthroughs were unexpected by everyone (devs and backers) and have changed the scope and scale (and, accordingly, time of development) of the game beyond anything envisioned pre-Frankfurt. I just wish that this was more clear to people who are only peripherally following the game.


The timeline, as I understand it, is this:

October 2012: CIG begins crowdfunding and expects the MMO portion to be in beta around November 2014. The game is basically envisioned as Crysis-level sized landing zones on planets that can only be reached by auto-landing.

April 2014: As per Tuxfools' video, Chris Roberts is talking about planets, such as they are currently showing, as "a pipe dream." It doesn't seem like he thinks spending a ton of resources on it is a great idea at this point in time.

August 2014: Chris asks the community whether to expand the scope to meet the massive spike in funding (~$50 million at the time). They say "Hell yes, make the BDSSE (Best Damn Space Sim Ever)!" I don't recall the exact details but this definitely does not include a promise to make every planet and moon fully procedurally generated, with all of the content needed to fill that space.

July 2015: Star Citizen Frankfurt opens (basically when all the core CryEngine engineers were hired). This is the team responsible for planetary (and lots of other) tech.

December 2015: Pupil to Planet happens. In the year and a half since mid-2014, CIG saw what the ex-Crytek devs made possible and Chris obviously took the BDSSE mandate and ran with it, even though that meant a completely new plan based around this new revolutionary technology. I'm not sure CIG properly communicated what a drastic change this was and how much it would affect the timeline moving forward but they may not have understood all the knock-on effects themselves. Instead of just making a bunch of Arc-Corp style landing zones, they now have to build tons of new tools and assets to fill a vastly expanded universe, making a lot of their previous work useless(ish).


I think that when Chris asked the community if the scope should be expanded in 2014, he had no idea just how much bigger it would get. It's basically a tale of two games: the one pre-2015 and the one after. CIG gets a ton of shit for not meeting deadlines, which is understandable, but they're not making the originally promised game anymore. Not even the BDSSE that was envisioned in 2014. I'll give them a few more years before I get too upset, personally, as long as they keep showing this kind of progress (and I get to play 3.x, woot!). For better or for worse, the bulk of development has only been happening since mid-2015.

Anyways, that's all pretty speculative but I think it approaches how we got to where we are with this game presently. Feel free to let me know if I've got something wrong.
 

Staticneuron

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,187
I also think that Chris was conservative with what could be attempted until Crytek had that big exodus and the talent also brought new things to the table. Things went from "let us complete this after release" to "we might as well do it now because we would have to change more later". Imo, ED justifies CIG's choice because there is going to be a difference to fundamental core gameplay and things added after final release. Your timeline is correct except Chris expected Squadron 42 to be released in 2 years and only beta of SC. (original kickstarter)

Here are the choice points though.

We intend to build the game that Chris Roberts described at GDC Online regardless, but without additional funding we are going to have to do it one piece at a time, starting with Squadron 42, rather than as a single larger production. With more funding we can include more ships, systems, unique locations, animations and cinematic sequences.

You as the customer get the ultimate vote in whether we make this game. Your dollars are your votes and the better we do the more resources we'll have to bring you a great game.

The people who pledge for their spaceships will get to test-fly them long before the general public. 12 months in, we will allow the early backers to play the multiplayer space combat Alpha, and then 20-22 months in they will get to play the Star Citizen Beta, adventuring around the huge open galaxy, well before the general public.

The BDSSE was actually coined in 2013 at 17 mill iirc if not earlier.

I would like to extend my most heartfelt thanks to each and every one of you! We just hit $17 million at slightly past 12am PST August 31 2013 – less than seven days after we hit $16M!!! The power of this community is simply amazing!

We still have a ways to go before we have achieved the goal of being completely community funded but based on our current trajectory we're going to make it – maybe even by the end of this year! Which will be another amazing milestone that will have been set by this community. The enthusiasm and support the development team and I have felt is amazing and makes us even more determined to make the best damn space sim ever! (BDSSE!)

I remember the scale of the game and community response was shortly after kickstarter, def not years later. Keep in mind, the delivery dates for game was based off of estimate of successful kickstarter of 500k. The scale and scope of what they could accomplish changed before the kickstarter even ended.

So it really is a tale of 3 ideas. The first was in pieces which evolved to the second approach of a single project before kickstarter finished and the next big change was when they realized what they could accomplish with procedural tech and tools now instead of later.

EDIT: I would also like to point out that the information is out there and CIG has been forth coming about what they wanted to do, their projections, their failures and successes. Speculation really isn't needed for their thought process when looking back.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
427
Amazing from start to finish. Incredible stuff from CIG. Really looking forward to the December stream.

(also loving the non-toxic vibe here at Era!)
 

LordFish

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
494
Is there anyway to still access the landing/take-off/flight tutorial? jumped in for the first time in ages last night and for the life of me could not find it anywhere.
 

Paul

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,603
Just watched the full gameplay demo




It is definitely one of the most, if not The most, impressive game demos I have ever seen. But what remains to be seen is how is it going to be populated with characters and missions and their quality. I am still mostly interested in Squadron 42, which is also an open book. Even amazing tech cannot save it if the writing and characters aren't well written.

But for now, I am super excited. And just glad that they are even building this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
229
Imo, ED justifies CIG's choice because there is going to be a difference to fundamental core gameplay and things added after final release. Your timeline is correct except Chris expected Squadron 42 to be released in 2 years and only beta of SC. (original kickstarter)

Thanks for the insight. I completely agree that CIG's much criticized approach to developing this game is the right one. Some people love to compare it to Elite Dangerous but this is such a different project; I really believe that they'll be proven right in the end.

So it really is a tale of 3 ideas. The first was in pieces which evolved to the second approach of a single project before kickstarter finished and the next big change was when they realized what they could accomplish with procedural tech and tools now instead of later.

Looking back on the Kickstarter demo and the proposed scope of the game at that time, to where we are now, it's just mind blowing. And they're not even done with the toolset yet...
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,981
Hello folks, I have a semi-technical question about planets.
As we've seen several times they use a blended tile system to build the various planet details from, but I curious about how this works at a global scale, as it's impossible to evenly tile a whole spheroid.
I'm wondering if they use a subdivided cube, which might be the simplest way if you want to adapt an existing engine's euclidean terrain, but it's not the only way. Does anyone know for sure?
 

Raticus79

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,041
PBR cracked glass shader:


Thanks jaaz

Looks like Streamable is working for embedding.
 
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Raticus79

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,041
Made a new Streamable for the PBR glass. It's a great site for this kind of thing - starting from the youtube URL I just adjusted the time range, cropped and it was good to go
 

steejee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,618
Great googagly moogaly those city scenes are insane. Good to see tangible progress with these videos.
 

Dyno

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,321
I'm slow to this stream I know, but damn I'm pretty taken back. The city planet was one thing I figured would be a huge hurdle. I'm gonna go ahead an assume this was the Frankfurt team who seem to be absolute masters in their field.
 

Nekyrrev

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,123
Very impressed by the quality of the whole stream. It felt professional, was nearly hiccups-free and more importantly, it was very interesting from start to finish (in my opinion anyway).
The technical details on their animation system are fascinating, and it just shows how much work goes into this game as a whole.
And ArcCorp at the end...damn. I was not ready for this, I didn't think it would look so good already. Props to the team.

And now...we wait patiently for 3.0 to come out. I'm hyped :)
 

golem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,878
i really liked the Lord of War style intro to the conference too (which CR was a producer on), hoping this fx work translates over to the game.

 

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
i really liked the Lord of War style intro to the conference too (which CR was a producer on), hoping this fx work translates over to the game.


A lot of these effects are already there, it is just that things always look better in a cinematic context. The sound effects, the framing of shots etc.

People underestimate how much these things matter.