Star Trek: Discovery Is Really Good Now! Give It A Second Chance!

[Kschreck]

EDIT: Stardate 4:20:19

I bumped this thread because season 2 has finished airing and I just wanted to bump this thread to say that i more then delivered for me and is easily one of my favorite shows on tv. Season 2 was much better then season 1 (which I enjoyed personally). Watch it people! Even if you just binge watch the show via a free week trial of CBS All-Access. Don't sit this one out. Show is a hidden gem. Everything I had posted below awhile back has been proven even MORE true now that the season has finished it's run. Excited we are getting a season 3 and the Picard series later in the fall.

I thought long and hard on whether or not I wanted to make one of these threads. However after thinking about it, I know there is a lot of folks who simply passed on this show either due to the "fake" negative backlash brought on by youtube trolls or they watched a small handful of episodes of season one and simply were not getting into it. Or maybe they just didn't feel it was worth paying for.

I wanted to provide an update on this show as we are now over half way through season 2 (season 3 has been confirmed). Below are simply my opinions and may or may not match your own.

As a massive Star Trek fan right from the beginning, I was IN. I didn't care about having to pay for CBS All-Access to watch it. Didn't bother me at all. International viewers of course can watch it on Netflix. I will admit that season one wasn't as good as I wanted it to be. I enjoyed it immensely, don't get me wrong but it didn't reach the highs that previous Treks have. Season one was certainly fine. I actually personally appreciated the updated visuals and modern take on a 50+ year franchise that really needed to evolve to fit with the times.

After how gorgeous season one of Discovery was, I was concerned that season two would get a big budget cut (as had been reported) and start to look cheap. Fortunately that is not the case and some how season two actually looks much better then season one visually. Every episode feels like you are watching a movie. The episodes are also a lot longer then the season one episodes giving more time for character development and letting the story breath. Something that really bothered me with the first season.

The season started out fairly strong with the season premiere. Episode 2 delivered a very Trek like episode. Episode 3 was the weakest so far from the season essentially wrapping up a lot of loose ends from season one. However beyond episode 3, the show has been putting out amazing episodes one after another. The last 5 episodes have been awesome and I feel like each passing episode is better then the previous one.

The show has two focuses this season. The main storyline mystery which has actually been really interesting and exciting and they have woven in a lot of Trek styled exploration, away missions, mysteries, new aliens, etc in order to keep the show feeling like proper Trek. The show also has a renewed approach to character development and bringing that classic "ship crew working together" feeling of previous Trek shows that was some what lacking in season. Also a more light hearted and "fun" tone.

Absolutely love the sets, the alien look of the planets, Ethan Peck as Spock is fantastic, etc. Everything feels alive and "big" in scale.

---

I know there are a lot of people here who fell in one of the following categories:

1. Heard the show sucked and so did not even bother giving it a try.
2. Watched a couple episodes or so and lost interest.
3. Did not want to pay money to watch the show via CBS All-Access.

I just wanted to say that I think a lot of you guys are missing out on something great here. The show is not the same show as it was during season one and is really starting to bloom into something special. With Dark Matter canceled, Nightflyers canceled, Killjoys ending, etc there isn't many quality space shows out there beyond Star Trek: Discovery and The Expanse.

Even if you don't want to pay for CBS All-Access and risk not liking the show, I would suggest doing a free trial and giving the show a proper chance. Binge watch it. I have a feeling a lot of you will be surprised by just how good this show has become. Like previous Trek shows, it may have taken a little while to really fire on all cylinders but man each week has been a real treat to me and judging by the Star Trek: Discovery thread, many others.

Also the Picard series goes into development next month with hopefully a fall release. So it's great to have Star Trek back.

One last note: There are a ton of troll channels on YouTube and elsewhere who are claiming that Discovery isn't any good, breaking canon, poorly written, etc and that is simply not the case. Star Trek has a massive amount of canon so nothing is ever going to be 100% perfect when attempting to develop new lore to such a massive property expanding 50+ years but Discovery just a hell of a job managing it all. Also these same troll channels are attacking Doctor Who, Marvel, Star Wars, etc. They simply embrace popular franchises, crap all over the new content and then wait for people to give them clicks so they can make money off of them. Don't believe their lies and make up your own opinion and quite frankly you're likely going to really enjoy the show if given a fair shake and if not? Well that's ok too!

Feel free to ask me questions regarding the show if there is anything you want to know.

 

[Fat4all]

i gave it a second shake already and fell off again, just aint for me, though i do like a few of the characters

 

[Stouffers]

I love the show. I like S1 and S2.

 

[Sweeney Swift]

I'm good with my one paid movie/show streaming service being Shudder

 

[BrutalInsane]

We plan on giving it a shot after we wrap up Enterprise.

 

[SteveWinwood]

I'm good with my one paid movie/show streaming service being Shudder

Click to shrink...

how is it, you like it?

 

[hydro94530]

Yup I'm loving it so far. Season 2 has been a blast. Not digging Spock's look though, but it's a minor thing.

 

[jb1234]

I'm still pretty disappointed with it but I think at this point, I just have to accept that it's not going to be the Trek I want.

 

[Stouffers]

We plan on giving it a shot after we wrap up Enterprise.

Click to shrink...

You've got a long road.

 

[golem]

It's been good since S1. It's not trying to be TNG and I'm thankful for that.

 

[shintoki]

First season left a bad taste in my mouth and its been hard generating any interest for S2

 

[BrutalInsane]

You've got a long road.

Click to shrink...

Ah, we're getting from there to here, we're almost done, 5 episodes left to go in season 4.

To be honest, it's my second favorite Trek, after DS9.

 

[Zenithysis]

Its a bad show with bad actors and bad writing.

 

[DBT85]

It was always good, it just got better.

Ansom Mount has been great this season.

Its a bad show with bad actors and bad writing.

Click to shrink...

I can't even.

 

[badcrumble]

S1 ended with perhaps too much incident - it felt like every episode crammed in a season finale's worth of twists - but S2 is doing a great job of making each episode *matter* while having much more sensible pacing and staying on focus for a real season-long arc. I'm delighted with it.

 

[Mashing]

You write all that and don't mention the amazing job Anson Mount has done this season? How? Loving this season and I agree with everything you said.

 

[DrForester]

S2 has been really solid. And improved a lot on S1.

- Lot more development of the supporting cast, rather than focusing entirely on Michael (don't get me wrong, I liked Michael's arc in S1, but we didn't get much of the rest of the cast)

- More stand alone (ish) episdoes. There's still an overreaching arc for the season, but most the episodes so far this season mostly tell their own story, with the season arc as the b-story.

 

[Neophant]

The first season of Discovery was one of my favourite shows of the 2017-2018 television season, and this is coming from someone who's loved and grew up watching all of the Star Trek shows as an after-school tradition and went to see all of the movies. I think it's incredibly refreshing, dynamic, and very true to the spirit of the Roddenberry vision. I actually think there's one episode in the middle of the season that can really win people over because of the way it works as a standalone while also progressing the plot, and that's Episode 7: Magic to make the Sanest Man go mad.

 

[KarmaCow]

Eh it's better but it's still the same show. If they were put off by the first season enough to drop it, I haven't seen anything to bring them back so far outside of even more nostalgia bait.

 

[Window]

I just started watching this a couple of days a go and finished all of S1 and am up to EP4 on S2 now. While I would recommend it to others, that recommendation would come with a lot of caveats. I think the shows biggest strength is its aesthetic style. It truly looks stunning with fantastic use of colors, set design, make up and VFXs. The show delivers well on spectacle with actions scenes and dog fighting sequences more exciting than the ones from past shows. Going to back to older series will be more difficult after having seen this. However I think the writing is a massive let down. I think the show's focus is all wrong. The Trek franchise has always had uneven writing with the ToS being very pulpy but what in the past could have been a single episode based on a silly or bad premise, this show stretches out over multiple episode arcs. While previous Trek shows always pulled some Deux Ex Machina to magically resolve the problem at hand, their focus was never on the problem or the solution which mostly acted as necessary MacGuffins to explore different ideas and concepts. Discovery instead opts to place them in the foreground. The dialogue in these shows has always been unnatural but it seems even more clumsy here, the writers may as well be talking to you directly without any consideration of believability. That's not to say the writing is irredeemable. I think there's some interesting inklings of ideas here (like the Klingon's fear of cultural assimilation as a cause for war) but they're not explored in sufficient detail. I don't mind a more pulpy direction to the series but it could have been executed a lot better than it's been done here.

S1 ended with perhaps too much incident - it felt like every episode crammed in a season finale's worth of twists - but S2 is doing a great job of making each episode *matter* while having much more sensible pacing and staying on focus for a real season-long arc. I'm delighted with it.

Click to shrink...

I agree with this too. Everything moves at a break-neck pace in every episode. Michael as a character (and many other characters as well) is like a barrage of dialogue.

 

[Stouffers]

Ah, we're getting from there to here, we're almost done, 5 episodes left to go in season 4.

To be honest, it's my second favorite Trek, after DS9.

Click to shrink...

Buckle up.

 

[Dalek]

It was always good.

 

[JDSN]

It's the only Star Trek stuff that I can bear to watch, really good show and it seemed to find it groove on the second season.

 

[Stouffers]

The guy who plays Pike is outstanding

 

[ZeoVGM]

It always was.

 

[SuperBanana]

The guy who plays Pike is outstanding

Click to shrink...

I want him as the captain for the whole series. :(

 

[phonicjoy]

Its the best Trek series so far for me. The really bad and over the top acting is minimal. Cisko was so much worse than Michael in that regard and people seem to love that character. Reminds me a lot of the stargate series that got canceled.

I dont like Pike as much as the previous captain, but it's still very very good.

 

[zoku88]

I like Star Trek, but don't really want to sign up for a service to watch one show. And even if I was able to binge watch it during the free trial, I'm the type who would forget to cancel.

 

[golem]

Ah, we're getting from there to here, we're almost done, 5 episodes left to go in season 4.

To be honest, it's my second favorite Trek, after DS9.

Click to shrink...

Whew that finale... have fun!

 

[Bio]

Discovery has been good from the first episode, and season 2 so far is better than ever.

 

[TDLink]

I think the hypothesis of your thread is inherently flawed because you're assuming people either didn't check out the show or only checked out a few episodes. And it is extremely wrong to assume everyone who didn't like Season One was a troll.

I watched every episode of Season 1. There were some decent ones in the middle (especially the time loop episode), but overall I felt it was fairly mediocre. Yeah it looks great, the production design is fantastic and there was obviously a lot of money pumped in. But I'm talking purely about the quality of the writing/storylines. I also felt like they killed off the most interesting characters. And the last couple episodes of the season were really (in my opinion) not only bad but a very boring direction to take the show in. ...I could get into the many more specific problems I had with it, but I'd like to avoid spoilers for those who care.

The trailers focusing on characters people know from old Trek like Pike and Spock didn't exactly make me more interested. I would have to hear the show changed significantly to actually give it another shot.

From what I've gathered in talking to people, and is even demonstrated in this thread though, the show at its core is the same. So it will preach to the choir no problem and appeal to the people who already liked it, but I don't know if it will actually convert people like me.

I'd be happy to hear an argument for why I'm wrong though.

That said, still optimistic about the Picard show. I hope it's better.

 

[Kschreck]

I think the hypothesis of your thread is inherently flawed because you're assuming people either didn't check out the show or only checked out a few episodes. And it is extremely wrong to assume everyone who didn't like Season One was a troll.

I watched every episode of Season 1. There were some decent ones in the middle (especially the time loop episode), but overall I felt it was fairly mediocre. Yeah it looks great, the production design is fantastic and there was obviously a lot of money pumped in. But I'm talking purely about the quality of the writing/storylines. I also felt like they killed off the most interesting characters. And the last couple episodes of the season were really (in my opinion) not only bad but a very boring direction to take the show in. ...I could get into the many more specific problems I had with it, but I'd like to avoid spoilers for those who care.

The trailers focusing on characters people know from old Trek like Pike and Spock didn't exactly make me more interested. I would have to hear the show changed significantly to actually give it another shot.

From what I've gathered in talking to people, and is even demonstrated in this thread though, the show at its core is the same. So it will preach to the choir no problem and appeal to the people who already liked it, but I don't know if it will actually convert people like me.

I'd be happy to hear an argument for why I'm wrong though.

That said, still optimistic about the Picard show. I hope it's better.

Click to shrink...

Never said everyone who disliked the show was a troll. Was referring those who have Youtube channels specifically designed to crap all over popular franchises in order to provoke people and get clickbait money. I have no problem with people disliking a show that I like.

 

[Deleted member 4179]

It's so much worse than S1. A complete disaster from top to bottom. I'm on autopilot now, determined to see it through to the end just because it says Star Trek in the title.

 

[FaceHugger]

I tried, it's just not the vibe, aesthetic, or really anything about it for me. It doesn't really convery Star Trek to me any longer.

I'll stick with The Orville until Fox cancels it. Which may be soon - they still haven't renewed it for a third season as far as I know.

 

[ninnanuam]

I'm still watching it, sort of. Every now and then my partner and I will run out of shows we are actually engaged with and we trade off watching back up shows. One of her back up shows is Discovery.

If I wasn't watching it with her I probably would have dropped it after a few episodes. As it is I think we are up to 8 or 9 maybe?
I'm glad it gets better because so far i've found it to be a bit of a slog. I don't dislike it, but its very boring in parts and the characters do little for me.

 

[Kschreck]

I tried, it's just not the vibe, aesthetic, or really anything about it for me. It doesn't really convery Star Trek to me any longer.

I'll stick with The Orville until Fox cancels it. Which may be soon - they still haven't renewed it for a third season as far as I know.

Click to shrink...

It's hard to say with this one. Ratings are not great but most of Fox's scripted shows are in the tank and well I would assume something would get renewed. Especially with Gifted having such low ratings. Also Gotham ending. My guess is the Orville would get renewed but who knows.

 

[Dougald]

I like it a lot, it's doing it's own thing which doesn't always work, but it's great. I always felt Trek post-TNG has always been at its worst when the show was designed to please what the most vocal fans wanted (ie, Voyager dropping its entire premise beyond lip-service to become a monster of the week TNG-lite).

I know it's already been mentioned but I'll say it again, Anson Mount is fantastic

 

[Vault]

Season 2 is so much better than the first

Anson Mount is fantastic as Pike

 

[TDLink]

I like it a lot, it's doing it's own thing which doesn't always work, but it's great. I always felt Trek post-TNG has always been at its worst when the show was designed to please what the most vocal fans wanted (ie, Voyager dropping its entire premise beyond lip-service to become a monster of the week TNG-lite).

I know it's already been mentioned but I'll say it again, Anson Mount is fantastic

Click to shrink...

I don't think Voyager dropped their premise because that is what fans wanted. They just decided on their own to more or less drop the premise. I wish they hadn't, but it happened incredibly quickly in Season One. Too quickly to actually be a response to fan feedback, especially in the pre-Internet age.

 

[Veelk]

I think the hypothesis of your thread is inherently flawed because you're assuming people either didn't check out the show or only checked out a few episodes. And it is extremely wrong to assume everyone who didn't like Season One was a troll.

I watched every episode of Season 1. There were some decent ones in the middle (especially the time loop episode), but overall I felt it was fairly mediocre. Yeah it looks great, the production design is fantastic and there was obviously a lot of money pumped in. But I'm talking purely about the quality of the writing/storylines. I also felt like they killed off the most interesting characters. And the last couple episodes of the season were really (in my opinion) not only bad but a very boring direction to take the show in. ...I could get into the many more specific problems I had with it, but I'd like to avoid spoilers for those who care.

The trailers focusing on characters people know from old Trek like Pike and Spock didn't exactly make me more interested. I would have to hear the show changed significantly to actually give it another shot.

From what I've gathered in talking to people, and is even demonstrated in this thread though, the show at its core is the same. So it will preach to the choir no problem and appeal to the people who already liked it, but I don't know if it will actually convert people like me.

I'd be happy to hear an argument for why I'm wrong though.

That said, still optimistic about the Picard show. I hope it's better.

Click to shrink...

I might be able to offer some insight, or atleast commentary.

Your not wrong regarding the problems of season 1. Aside from a bunch of annoyances like the writing trying to be edgiest grimdarkest version of itself it can be and stuff like having prolonged scenes spoken in nothing but klingon, a language that sounds like variations of the sort of sounds cats make when they vomit, the writing itself was just not all that strong. Characters were rather mopey because the narrative fucked them over in some way or another and Michael was just boring as a protagonist and characterization wasn't strong and the pacing dragged in several places, and things just went a little badshit insane in the last few episodes, especially the very last one where they backtracked on the themes of the entire season after realizing everyone hated the grim dark-dark interpretation of Trek and now had Michael shout how she believed in the ideals of Star Fleet and so on. It wasn't the worst season of Trek ever, like you said the time loop episode was fun, but it was more flawed than not. But fundamentally, the writing of the show made Michael such a focal point that no other character could develop except in relation to her.

To this, what does S2 improve? Most of it. The tone is more lighthearted in general, but goes dark when it needs to, which means rather than the series just being this edgelord trek version of itself, it's more that it goes dark when it earns it narratively, rather than just having that exist to shock or gross out the audience. The pacing is much improved, with it striking a much better balance between episodic content and sequential. Just about every episode advances the main plot mystery, but you have entire episodes dedicated to one characters problem or issue. However, while that character's problem is generally resolved in the episode, the effects of that resolution often propel development further along. For example, something major happened to Saru a couple episodes back that greatly changed one of his core characteristics, and now we had a small moment, episodes later, that reflected that change. It's a much better balancing act of characterization and plot development.

And as a smaller change that I appreciate, it's slowly but subtly developing the bridge crew a lot more this season. They haven't become main characters, but in S1 it always bugged me how we have these visually interesting characters on the bridge, like the Nebula-looking cyborg lady and the one with the prosthetic eye, and they just sit around not really doing anything. They are still mainly on the bridge doing their own thing, but they have their own things going on that characterizes them and I'm happy about that. The cyborg lady in particular is gonna get a big plotline moment soon I think.

Furthermore, it's kind of a well done soap opera now? Like, I wouldn't have said that in S1 Michael actually developed a strong relationship to anyone except I guess Tyler, despite the fact that, being the main character, their development hinged greatly on her. But here, Michael feels like she has a strong dynamic with various characters with moments of friendship and affection, but the characters themselves are also operating as their own independent agents, atleast moreso than in S1. The only criticism I would offer is that it kind of veers into melodramatic areas at some points, where characters are almost overacting the emotions...but I would nevertheless say that it's an improvement over S1. I will take emotionally overwrought character relationships than the stiff, unnatural ones we had before.

If S1 was Edgelord Star Trek that was trying to be as grimdark as possible thinking that meant being as interesting as possible, then S2 most closely resembles Mass Effect. It kinda looks like Mass Effect a lot of the time, we get interpersonal developed melodrama in the characters, which are usually then enveloped in some high stakes worldbuilding plotlines....stuff like that.

And that's the best way I can pitch it to you, a Mass Effect Star Trek. It still has some problems, but for me, it's like a 80% improvement over S1.

 

[Inugami]

The biggest flaw for the series is being stuck on CBS's service... maybe by the time the Picard series is out there'll be enough value for me to get it for a month or two. As is, I won't watch CBS service for Star Trek just like I won't get any other single-content sub service.

 

[TDLink]

I might be able to offer some insight, or atleast commentary.

Your not wrong regarding the problems of season 1. Aside from a bunch of annoyances like the writing trying to be edgiest grimdarkest version of itself it can be and stuff like having prolonged scenes spoken in nothing but klingon, a language that sounds like variations of the sort of sounds cats make when they vomit, the writing itself was just not all that strong. Characters were rather mopey because the narrative fucked them over in some way or another and Michael was just boring as a protagonist and characterization wasn't strong and the pacing dragged in several places, and things just went a little badshit insane in the last few episodes, especially the very last one where they backtracked on the themes of the entire season after realizing everyone hated the grim dark-dark interpretation of Trek and now had Michael shout how she believed in the ideals of Star Fleet and so on. It wasn't the worst season of Trek ever, like you said the time loop episode was fun, but it was more flawed than not. But fundamentally, the writing of the show made Michael such a focal point that no other character could develop except in relation to her.

To this, what does S2 improve? Most of it. The tone is more lighthearted in general, but goes dark when it needs to, which means rather than the series just being this edgelord trek version of itself, it's more that it goes dark when it earns it narratively, rather than just having that exist to shock or gross out the audience. The pacing is much improved, with it striking a much better balance between episodic content and sequential. Just about every episode advances the main plot mystery, but you have entire episodes dedicated to one characters problem or issue. However, while that character's problem is generally resolved in the episode, the effects of that resolution often propel development further along. For example, something major happened to Saru a couple episodes back that greatly changed one of his core characteristics, and now we had a small moment, episodes later, that reflected that change. It's a much better balancing act of characterization and plot development.

And as a smaller change that I appreciate, it's slowly but subtly developing the bridge crew a lot more this season. They haven't become main characters, but in S1 it always bugged me how we have these visually interesting characters on the bridge, like the Nebula-looking cyborg lady and the one with the prosthetic eye, and they just sit around not really doing anything. They are still mainly on the bridge doing their own thing, but they have their own things going on that characterizes them and I'm happy about that. The cyborg lady in particular is gonna get a big plotline moment soon I think.

Furthermore, it's kind of a well done soap opera now? Like, I wouldn't have said that in S1 Michael actually developed a strong relationship to anyone except I guess Tyler, despite the fact that, being the main character, their development hinged greatly on her. But here, Michael feels like she has a strong dynamic with various characters with moments of friendship and affection, but the characters themselves are also operating as their own independent agents, atleast moreso than in S1. The only criticism I would offer is that it kind of veers into melodramatic areas at some points, where characters are almost overacting the emotions...but I would nevertheless say that it's an improvement over S1. I will take emotionally overwrought character relationships than the stiff, unnatural ones we had before.

If S1 was Edgelord Star Trek that was trying to be as grimdark as possible thinking that meant being as interesting as possible, then S2 most closely resembles Mass Effect. It kinda looks like Mass Effect a lot of the time, we get interpersonal developed melodrama in the characters, which are usually then enveloped in some high stakes worldbuilding plotlines....stuff like that.

And that's the best way I can pitch it to you, a Mass Effect Star Trek. It still has some problems, but for me, it's like a 80% improvement over S1.

Click to shrink...

All of those sound like positive improvements, but I'm still not sure it sounds like it has improved enough to be worth my time. And calling it melodramatic or like a soap opera just makes me even more wary.

I've heard vague comments about how great Pike is, but I was kinda disappointed they backed off Saru being Captain (who was the strongest and most interesting character left alive at the end of S1). Michael was a major misfire as a character in my eyes, and the near-sole focus on her would hurt any iteration of this show -- and I'm assuming she's still the focal point even if they've given other characters a bit more room to have the spotlight.

One of the other significant issues I had was the pacing of the show (they basically ran through 3 seasons worth of overarching plot in 1), and also the extremely overt telegraphing of the plot twists (I think everyone guessed the Klingon spy thing either almost immediately or at least 4+ episodes before they wanted you to). Are those elements improved at all?

 

[Sir Hound]

My last post on the show was pretty negative but I gotta say the last three have been pretty good! It's fast paced without tripping over itself, I'm actually kinda interested about what the red angel is, the cast has more to do. I thought I'd bailed but I'm back in, tentatively.

 

[Veelk]

All of those sound like positive improvements, but I'm still not sure it sounds like it has improved enough to be worth my time. And calling it melodramatic or like a soap opera just makes me even more wary.

I've heard vague comments about how great Pike is, but I was kinda disappointed they backed off Saru being Captain (who was the strongest and most interesting character left alive at the end of S1). Michael was a major misfire as a character in my eyes, and the near-sole focus on her would hurt any iteration of this show -- and I'm assuming she's still the focal point even if they've given other characters a bit more room to have the spotlight.

Click to shrink...

I might be only calling it that in terms of relation to the first season. Honestly, the show sells most of the stuff happening and the reactions in the thread as it goes on seem like people are generally getting along with the emotional moments of the series. To be honest, I would say that maybe only one moment goes over the top, but it's also by far the most emotionally intense moment of the series so far, so it could be argued that it should get a pass for being a tad overwrought.

Saru is given his due in terms of characterization and plot importance is all I can say. And I think that's the important part. Making him captain while having the quality of writing of S1 wouldn't have been any actual improvement to the writing, it would just be a validation of "I like this character, and I want good things to happen to him". I don't know if Saru is the best written character in Discovery, but I think he's arguably the most compelling, and that's far more due to his last few episodes in S2 rather than anything he does in S1.

As for Michael, I think she is certainly improved. To be as specific as possible, I feel she has more agency as compared to how she was kind of stuck in a whirlwind of plot-twists in the last season that made it so that she was constantly in problem-solving mode to whatever the current plotpoint was. Here, I feel she has just more growth as a person in a natural sort of way. There are people who still argue she is the least interesting character in the cast, but I think it's a marked improvement from S1. That said, she is and imo should remain the focal point of the show as she's, you know, the protagonist. Discovery is her show, so her status as protagonist shouldn't change. She should just improve as a character, and I think she does.

One of the other significant issues I had was the pacing of the show (they basically ran through 3 seasons worth of overarching plot in 1), and also the extremely overt telegraphing of the plot twists (I think everyone guessed the Klingon spy thing either almost immediately or at least 4+ episodes before they wanted you to). Are those elements improved at all?

Click to shrink...

As I said, I think the pacing is much, much better. You have major plot problems being generally episodic affairs, but the interpersonal dynamics and consequences of those plot points have echoes in the episodes that follow it. In terms of pacing, it's striking a good balance.

In terms of the main mystery, people have plenty of theories and my estimation is that one of them is bound to be right, and I do think that the most popularly predicted answer is the corrected one, but that stilll hasn't been revealed. However, no mystery that is only as good as it's solution is worth telling, but it's how that mystery unfolds which is related to the pacing that makes it good. In each episode, we learn just a little more about the mystery as the crew solves the various plots related to it, and the plots themselves are satisfying, so yeah, I'd argue that even if the most predicted answer ends up being the correct one, the journey getting there has been good so far.

 

[Mechaplum]

It was okay, and then I discovered The Expanse. The gulf is massive.

 

[Wombat_Lover]

It was good from the very start.

 

[TDLink]

I might be only calling it that in terms of relation to the first season. Honestly, the show sells most of the stuff happening and the reactions in the thread as it goes on seem like people are generally getting along with the emotional moments of the series. To be honest, I would say that maybe only one moment goes over the top, but it's also by far the most emotionally intense moment of the series so far, so it could be argued that it should get a pass for being a tad overwrought.

Saru is given his due in terms of characterization and plot importance is all I can say. And I think that's the important part. Making him captain while having the quality of writing of S1 wouldn't have been any actual improvement to the writing, it would just be a validation of "I like this character, and I want good things to happen to him". I don't know if Saru is the best written character in Discovery, but I think he's arguably the most compelling, and that's far more due to his last few episodes in S2 rather than anything he does in S1.

As for Michael, I think she is certainly improved. To be as specific as possible, I feel she has more agency as compared to how she was kind of stuck in a whirlwind of plot-twists in the last season that made it so that she was constantly in problem-solving mode to whatever the current plotpoint was. Here, I feel she has just more growth as a person in a natural sort of way. There are people who still argue she is the least interesting character in the cast, but I think it's a marked improvement from S1. That said, she is and imo should remain the focal point of the show as she's, you know, the protagonist. Discovery is her show, so her status as protagonist shouldn't change. She should just improve as a character, and I think she does.


As I said, I think the pacing is much, much better. You have major plot problems being generally episodic affairs, but the interpersonal dynamics and consequences of those plot points have echoes in the episodes that follow it. In terms of pacing, it's striking a good balance.

In terms of the main mystery, people have plenty of theories and my estimation is that one of them is bound to be right, and I do think that the most popularly predicted answer is the corrected one, but that stilll hasn't been revealed. However, no mystery that is only as good as it's solution is worth telling, but it's how that mystery unfolds which is related to the pacing that makes it good. In each episode, we learn just a little more about the mystery as the crew solves the various plots related to it, and the plots themselves are satisfying, so yeah, I'd argue that even if the most predicted answer ends up being the correct one, the journey getting there has been good so far.

Click to shrink...

Thanks for all the info. I'm still not going to hop on board any time soon, but if after it's over the end opinion of the season is that it was a significant step up I might give it a chance again. Still hoping Picard is something better.

It was okay, and then I discovered The Expanse. The gulf is massive.

Click to shrink...

The Expanse is fantastic. Always good to hear more people are discovering it. So happy Amazon saved it for Season 4.

 

[UltimateHigh]

it's better than most trek.

 

[kingkaiser]

Already couldn't stand the teaser for season 2. Hey look, we fun and humor now, just like the Orville. Remember Section 31? Let's have a character bragging about being part of Starfleet's Secret Service in front of other officers, because that's exactly what an agent would do!

 

[Huddy]

You write all that and don't mention the amazing job Anson Mount has done this season? How? Loving this season and I agree with everything you said.

Click to shrink...

Right. I was really worried

Spoiler: S1 Spoiler

when we lost Lorca in S1

but Mount has done such a great job that I haven't thought of S1 since Pike arrived on screen.

#Pike4S3