Star Trek: Discovery Is Really Good Now! Give It A Second Chance!

Pluto · Mar 10, 2019

Dougald said:
Crew conflicts, limited supplies, etc. Voyager basically has unlimited supplies/shuttles/repair ability and the ship barely changes throughout the entire run, and the entire show is basically standard trek without other federation ships around. Enterprise Season 3 did the 'far from home with no way to repair or resupply' arc much better, I think

Not that I want to knock on Voyager too hard, but it criminally wasted the possibilities provided by its setting

The problem with Voyager was that they couldn't have limited supplies with the technology they have access to, fusion power alone provides pretty much unlimited energy (and that's before we add the warp core) and replicator technology can turn that energy into everything they need. Making repairs also it that hard, they presumably have industrial replicators that can provide bigger replacement parts.
While it didn't happen on screen the Enterprise D was originally supposed to leave federation space and explore for 20 years (that's why they had families on board) so Voyager not falling apart with food and shuttle shortages after 7 years makes sense.

DIE BART DIE said:
Season 1 was awful, I dropped it after a few episodes. 2 would have to switch things up a lot.

TNG had a godawful first season, to this day I can only rewatch a handful of episodes without cringing, the first few episodes are:

Encounter at Farpoint - awkward and stilted with a "mystery" that's so easy to solve it makes the characters look stupid.
The Naked Now - A crappy TOS sequel where everyone becomes horny except the hirny teenager who takes over engineering instead.
Code of Honor - Racist times ten
The Last Outpost - Ferengi who act like space leprechauns horny for gold and presented as credible threats
Where no one has gone before - ok, that one wasn't so bad, it wasn't good but beimg surrounded by so much shit makes it look like a diamond
Lonely Among Us - ambassadors murder and eat someone but that's a sub plot and mostly ignored, picard tries to commit suicide after he falls in love with blie lightning.
Justice - the crew ignores the prime directive and beams down to a pre warp planet of attractive, horny people with just enough clothes to be allowed on tv, Wesley explores the horny sexy people planet, meets non horny teenagers and is almost executed but gets to live another day. The worst part is that Picard is told "The boy has to die but your technology is far superior and if you decide to simply take him and leave there's NOTHING we can do to stop you, wink wink nudge nudge" and Picard is like "Nope, gotta respect your laws"

I could go on but the point is that one of the most beloved trek shows started out as a load of crap, so maybe give Discovery another chance? Disco's first season isn't even that bad especially towards the end, the arc they do is a lot of fun and season 2 has been pretty good so far with some classic episodic trek plots woven into the overarching narrative.

Alexandros · Mar 10, 2019

Effect said:
I think she's great. She's really expressive when she acts and I think that's a fine choice to make and a lot of people are like that so it isn't some unknown thing for a person to do.

I don't know, for me it seems like she's playing the character as being always on the verge of collapsing with every distressing incident. If that's intended, by which I mean that the writers intend for her to still be severely conflicted and tormented, then I guess it's ok. But based on the events of the previous season I would have expected her character to move on and be more calm and collected.

Dougald · Mar 10, 2019

Pluto said:
The problem with Voyager was that they couldn't have limited supplies with the technology they have access to, fusion power alone provides pretty much unlimited energy (and that's before we add the warp core) and replicator technology can turn that energy into everything they need. Making repairs also it that hard, they presumably have industrial replicators that can provide bigger replacement parts.

That's how they retconned it, sure, but the original concept had it that certain things they needed just couldn't be reproduced by replicators. They even say that they have no way to make new torpedoes in an early episode (the clip is even in the infamous photon torpedo count YouTube video)

They do revisit this concept somewhat with the USS Equinox, but they kinda threw out the nuance and made the crew pretty much straight evil

funky · Mar 10, 2019

DIE BART DIE said:
Season 1 was awful, I dropped it after a few episodes. 2 would have to switch things up a lot.

They do.

It's one of the most impressive tone and quality shifts i have seen a show do.

EvilRedEye · Mar 10, 2019

Dougald said:
That's how they retconned it, sure, but the original concept had it that certain things they needed just couldn't be reproduced by replicators. They even say that they have no way to make new torpedoes in an early episode (the clip is even in the infamous photon torpedo count YouTube video)

They do revisit this concept somewhat with the USS Equinox, but they kinda threw out the nuance and made the crew pretty much straight evil

They were also unable to replicate warp coils IIRC, which should have limited their ability to churn out shuttlecraft. The problem is what people seem to have wanted it to be is constant Year of Hell-style maintainance issues but that isn't consistent with the established abilities of Starfleet tech which essentially allows everything except a few exotic items to be replicated. Contriving such a situation through, for example, a recurring antagonist also wouldn't have worked because it removes the carrot of the journey being completable through conventional means even though it would take decades.

Rad Bandolar · Mar 10, 2019

Alexandros said:
What do people think of the actress playing Burnham? I watched the fourth episode of season 2 and I swear to God that her facial expressions gave me Mass Effect Andromeda vibes.

Yeah, there's a lot of Burnham Face, which I lay at the door of the writers. I wonder how many of the descriptions for her character's actions in the script include the words "confused/tortured/desperate/worried/frightened/pained"? It's a shame, since the actress outside this role is charming & engaging -- she's someone you're drawn to and want to watch. Yet none of it is channeled into the character. It's like they've locked her into a straight-jacket of poor characterization from which she cannot escape.

We've seen very brief flashes of wit and charm, but those look more and more like happy accidents that slipped through, than anything deliberate on the part of the writers & directors.

Alexandros said:
I just can't get a handle on her character at all. It may be the material she's given to work with.

This just demonstrates how poorly she's been handled by the writers, considering she's the main character on the show. They've done a good job rehabilitating most of the other characters from Season 1. They've allowed the actors to grow into their roles and maybe even influence their characterizations as well, but not with Burnham. If the show has any chance at being as good as Season 2, they've got to figure out her character, and allow her to grow & develop into someone who can actually carry the show.

It's also odd that most of the new characters they've introduced this season had a greater immediate impact than the existing ones.

Window · Mar 10, 2019

Rad Bandolar said:
I've really enjoyed Season 2, but I realize that everything I've liked about it is due to things that aren't going to continue forward into Season 3. The Discovery will get a new Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher and go back to being...okay, I guess.

Ha, so I wasn't the only one who that of that with the change in captains.

Pluto · Mar 10, 2019

Dougald said:
That's how they retconned it, sure, but the original concept had it that certain things they needed just couldn't be reproduced by replicators. They even say that they have no way to make new torpedoes in an early episode (the clip is even in the infamous photon torpedo count YouTube video)

That's something that never made sense to me and I'm glad it was ignored because there was never a reason given why they couldn't make new torpedoes. That felt completely unrealistic considering they could apparently make everything else and a photon torpedo is just an antimatter bomb strapped to a small warp drive, if they can build drones and delta fliers they can build torpedoes.

Equinox's biggest problem was that they lost like half the crew early and didn't have a lot of defensive capabilities iirc, it doesn't matter if you can in theory repair your ship if you lack the manpower to do those repairs in time before the next attack from someone looking at you as easy prey.

EvilRedEye said:
They were also unable to replicate warp coils IIRC, ...

I don't remember that ever being said. but I could be wrong.

But honestly, there are a ton of episodes where characters figure out how to do things they previously thought they couldn't, so maybe they just solved some problems off screen or traded, they often met species they were on good terms with.

Rassilon · Mar 10, 2019

Yeah it is good.
Some areas for improvement, but I ind this series more enjoyable

TDLink · Mar 10, 2019

DIE BART DIE said:
If I don't think a show is good after 5 or so episodes then I've given it a fair shake and I'm not obliged to carry on. It was bad, sorry!

Don't worry, you're right. And it's how most people watch something too.

Effect said:
No that's fine. What you saw you thought was bad. I don't think one gets to say the entire season is bad if they dropped it because they clearly haven't seen the majority of it.

You're not right. Watching 5 episodes of something is usually pretty indicative of how the whole thing will be. There were some better episodes after that first 5, but more or less the first season's quality was consistent -- mediocre/poor.

Now, season 2 has a completely different creative team so it's definitely potentially a different story, but you shouldn't stay with something (and thus commit yourself to 10+ more hours of something you don't like) just in an effort to see it through to the end.

-Signed someone who watched the entire first season and overall also thought it was bad.

Pluto said:
TNG had a godawful first season, to this day I can only rewatch a handful of episodes without cringing, the first few episodes are:

Encounter at Farpoint - awkward and stilted with a "mystery" that's so easy to solve it makes the characters look stupid.
The Naked Now - A crappy TOS sequel where everyone becomes horny except the hirny teenager who takes over engineering instead.
Code of Honor - Racist times ten
The Last Outpost - Ferengi who act like space leprechauns horny for gold and presented as credible threats
Where no one has gone before - ok, that one wasn't so bad, it wasn't good but beimg surrounded by so much shit makes it look like a diamond
Lonely Among Us - ambassadors murder and eat someone but that's a sub plot and mostly ignored, picard tries to commit suicide after he falls in love with blie lightning.
Justice - the crew ignores the prime directive and beams down to a pre warp planet of attractive, horny people with just enough clothes to be allowed on tv, Wesley explores the horny sexy people planet, meets non horny teenagers and is almost executed but gets to live another day. The worst part is that Picard is told "The boy has to die but your technology is far superior and if you decide to simply take him and leave there's NOTHING we can do to stop you, wink wink nudge nudge" and Picard is like "Nope, gotta respect your laws"

I could go on but the point is that one of the most beloved trek shows started out as a load of crap, so maybe give Discovery another chance? Disco's first season isn't even that bad especially towards the end, the arc they do is a lot of fun and season 2 has been pretty good so far with some classic episodic trek plots woven into the overarching narrative.

A lot of people bring this argument up, and I would go a step further to say that all Trek shows have a pretty bad first season. It's only in the second/third where they start to come into their own.

And in that sense I do somewhat cut Discovery some slack/am optimistic that it can become a much better show.

But even saying that, here's the core issue with the argument:

At the end of the day, yes Star Trek shows traditionally improved as they went, but it's not the 80s and 90s anymore.

Television is a lot better now than it was then. And not only is the quality much higher, the quantity is too. Many shows don't get 3 seasons to find their way. And many shows are good right out of the gate, or after minimal floundering in the first few episodes.

Discovery has been plagued with multiple creative regime changes behind the scenes from the very first episode. And, I know this is an aside but, it also has to contend with the scum-sucking leech known as Akiva Goldsman, who is a complete hack.

Why watch this when there are so many other, better, options out there at the moment?

Pluto · Mar 10, 2019

TDLink said:
A lot of people bring this argument up, and I would go a step further to say that all Trek shows have a pretty bad first season. It's only in the second/third where they start to come into their own.

And in that sense I do somewhat cut Discovery some slack/am optimistic that it can become a much better show.

But even saying that, here's the core issue with the argument:

At the end of the day, yes Star Trek shows traditionally improved as they went, but it's not the 80s and 90s anymore.

Television is a lot better now than it was then. And not only is the quality much higher, the quantity is too. Many shows don't get 3 seasons to find their way. And many shows are good right out of the gate, or after minimal floundering in the first few episodes.

Discovery has been plagued with multiple creative regime changes behind the scenes from the very first episode. And, I know this is an aside but, it also has to contend with the scum-sucking leech known as Akiva Goldsman, who is a complete hack.

Why watch this when there are so many other, better, options out there at the moment?

I kinda agree, tv shows should be good from the start, usually I am not interested in plowing theough something I dislike hoping it bets better. However, the previous trek shows are still proof that it is possible for a show to improve significantly, a bad start doesn't mean it will be bad forever.
I think the fact that I have been a Star Trek fan for decades makes me more forgiving although I never disliked the first season, it was uneven but ambitious, not everything they tried worked but I appreciate the effort and genuinely loved the arc they did in the second half.

hibikase · Mar 10, 2019

Season 2 is better but still pretty awful overall. I thought they were doing well at first, but now I'm just back to hate-watching it. The writers are not talented enough at writing mysteries (the red angel is obviously going to be

a future time travelling Michael

) and they are completely missing the point of Section 31. They also keep dipping into cheap nostalgia bait because they know they can't stand up on their own.

Meanwhile The Orville is probably going to get cancelled soon, because we can't have nice things.

BrutalInsane · Mar 10, 2019

The Orz said:
Are you me?

I will always consider the last episode of Enterprise as glorified fan fiction, though. I just can't accept it. I won't, darn it all!

Ha we just finished, I see what you mean. It wasn't terrible, but the episode before this one would of been a more fitting end. Still, sad to see it end, and it was definitely better than the Voyager finale.

Alexandros · Mar 10, 2019

Rad Bandolar said:
This just demonstrates how poorly she's been handled by the writers, considering she's the main character on the show.

Agreed.

Kschreck · Mar 11, 2019

DIE BART DIE said:
Season 1 was awful, I dropped it after a few episodes. 2 would have to switch things up a lot.

Season 2 feels almost like a bit of a reboot. Lighter tone, a more natural Star Trek like structure, characters working together more, longer episodes which means more time for character development, etc. This season feels a lot better then the first season did.

jon bones said:
i've always found ST intimidating to get into - is this a good start?

does all access stream in hdr / 4k?

Nope! Really wish it did air in full 4K/HDR but unfortunately it does not. I did hear it's at least got HDR on Netflix internationally but still in 1080p. Wish they would release 4K box sets as well but very unlikely to ever happen.

hibikase said:
Season 2 is better but still pretty awful overall. I thought they were doing well at first, but now I'm just back to hate-watching it. The writers are not talented enough at writing mysteries (the red angel is obviously going to be

a future time travelling Michael

) and they are completely missing the point of Section 31. They also keep dipping into cheap nostalgia bait because they know they can't stand up on their own.

Meanwhile The Orville is probably going to get cancelled soon, because we can't have nice things.

I really hope that isn't the twist because even I would admit that to being lame as hell.

Why would Michael even be in the future and how would she even have such advance technology that is said to be 500 years out? It doesn't make any sense as to why it would be Michael and besides how would a future version of Michael travel back in time to stop herself being eaten alive on Vulcan as a child? She wouldn't have existed in the first place to become the future version. So yeah if it IS Michael from the future... that would be lame as hell so I'm hoping you are wrong here. Surely it's someone else...

Praetorpwj · Mar 11, 2019

I'm just so tired of Trek going forever backwards and Discovery has the least international flavour of any Trek series. It's so American. The Expanse gives me prime intelligent Sci Fi.

Redhead On Moped · Mar 11, 2019

It's solid, but it has the WORST regular character in Trek history. I've talked it in the OT before, but I legit cannot stand Tilly, I hate her so much. :(

Thankfully though, the show truly is solid. It's great if you like KT, TNG, or ENT. It is definitely worth it, Short Treks too as Calypso is in top 10 Star Trek anything.

Seriously, it's that good.

nekkid · Mar 11, 2019

Redhead On Moped said:
It's solid, but it has the WORST regular character in Trek history. I've talked it in the OT before, but I legit cannot stand Tilly, I hate her so much. :(

Thankfully though, the show truly is solid. It's great if you like KT, TNG, or ENT. It is definitely worth it, Short Treks too as Calypso is in top 10 Star Trek anything.

Seriously, it's that good.

People go on about how amazing Tilly is, and yeah - I don't get it. And we're supposed to buy into her being command material...

Window · Mar 11, 2019

nekkid said:
People go on about how amazing Tilly is, and yeah - I don't get it. And we're supposed to buy into her being command material...

Yep I don't get the appeal of her character either. She's okay as quick comic relief but I don't buy into her as a serious character.

And to be honest, I don't see the massive shift between S1 and S2 people keep bringing up. Yes I do think that the show now actually spends some time to develop secondary characters (S1 did this too but it just happened to be just Lorca + Voq/Tyler) but it still has an unrelenting pace moving from one crisis to another with many illogical and questionable choices from characters which exist only to move the plot forwards.

Horo · Mar 11, 2019

Obviously. All star trek shows since TNG needs their crappy early seasons before they become good.

GymWolf86 · Mar 11, 2019

Is the protagonist still the same?
If yes than i'm good with the expanse and the orville.

Ronnie Poncho · Mar 11, 2019

I am loving Season 2 apart from a scene in episode 4 or 5 in Pike's briefing room where the camera rotates around everyone for about 5 minutes. It goes on, and on, and on, until you feel absolutely sick. It's atrocious.

Otherwise, excellent. Latest episode is tip top too.

DavidDesu · Mar 11, 2019

The Saru episode was class. Amazing visuals and an emotional story. I quite liked S1 but it was very action heavy and moved at 100mph, S2 seems to be broadening out.

I still feel like we're not getting enough time to get to know more crew members, like the two woman characters at the helm... Let's get some downtime with these characters as well and some smaller episodes. The only downside seems to be that they have a very prominent overriding arc happening and it means there is no time to move away, everything is about the Red Angel or with S1 about the Klingons. I hope S3 maybe slows the pace and there isn't one overriding story that dominates like the first two seasons.

Edit: comment above mine, hahaha, yeah it was like they deliberately wanted to create a meme or something it went on and on...

Triggerhappytel · Mar 11, 2019

I stopped watching after the break in Season 1 and haven't gone back to it yet. I was quite enjoying it so I don't know why not.

Window · Mar 11, 2019

DavidDesu said:
The Saru episode was class. Amazing visuals and an emotional story. I quite liked S1 but it was very action heavy and moved at 100mph, S2 seems to be broadening out.

I've seen other people praise the Saru episode but I think it was botched in execution. There's so many questionable decisions made in this episode and the show doesn't take the time to consider the implications of their actions, which is what the core of this episode should have always been. The Kelpian are also barely explored in the episode, the ShortTrek short did a far better job here (and is almost essential viewing to provide context for this episode) and the difference in pace/style is so evident. Even though it's a short, Brightest Star actually slows down and lets you see and understand Saru's longing for more in his life and for his people. You hardly get that in the main show.

It did raise some other questions in my mind though. General Order 1 applies to Kelpians as they aren't warp capable but their ruler species is. However the Kelpians may never reach that capability as they are a subservient species who's freedom to explore and invent is completely controlled by the Ba'ul. Star Fleet leaving the situation as status quo (until now) seems messed up.

funky · Mar 11, 2019

GymWolf86 said:
Is the protagonist still the same?
If yes than i'm good with the expanse and the orville.

She is still the lead and still as flat as ever but she isn't the focus of everything in s2 like in s1. And she doesn't seem to do anything as stupid as season 1 now too.

They remembered there is a crew of characters and have slowly been giving them more meaningful story things to do. Bridge crew say more in a single s2 episode then they did the entirety of season 1 where they just existed to looked afraid or angry at things.

MCN · Mar 11, 2019

Window said:
It did raise some other questions in my mind though. General Order 1 applies to Kelpians as they aren't warp capable but their ruler species is. However the Kelpians may never reach that capability as they are a subservient species who's freedom to explore and invent is completely controlled by the Ba'ul. Star Fleet leaving the situation as status quo (until now) seems messed up.

As far as I can tell, General Order One applies to the planet, not individual species on a planet. Maybe the federation decided to stay out of it because they were busy dealing with the Romulans, then the Klingons, and could do without starting a war with the Ba'ul (who are clearly quite powerful themselves) at the same time.

Window · Mar 11, 2019

MCN said:
As far as I can tell, General Order One applies to the planet, not individual species on a planet. Maybe the federation decided to stay out of it because they were busy dealing with the Romulans, then the Klingons, and could do without starting a war with the Ba'ul (who are clearly quite powerful themselves) at the same time.

Well in the show Star Fleet makes contact with the Ba'ul but then state they can't interfere/communicate with Kelpians because they're not warp capable (and General Order 1 applies) which made it sound like it was a species specific thing and not planet specific. You're right about the need to avoid war as a possible reason to not intervene but the ShortTrek and this episode didn't really convey that, they leaned more on GO1 as the explanation.

MCN · Mar 11, 2019

Window said:
Well in the show Star Fleet makes contact with the Ba'ul but then state they can't interfere/communicate with Kelpians because they're not warp capable (and General Order 1 applies) which made it sound like it was a species specific thing and not planet specific. You're right about the need to avoid war as a possible reason to not intervene but the ShortTrek and this episode didn't really convey that, they leaned more on GO1 as the explanation.

That sounds like a typical Starfleet Admiral excuse to me.

Coxy · Mar 11, 2019

Stouffers said:
The guy who plays Pike is outstanding

Yep never seen him before - but damn he feels like Pike should. Love him.

And I agree with the OP - there's a marked improvement in S2.

ArnoldJRimmer · Mar 11, 2019

Season 2 is definitely a lot better than 1.

I like the characters from the show a lot. Most ooze charisma (Pike, Burns, Tilly and Saru are especially great) and have some interesting backgrounds that are well thought out and have an impact on the characters actions in a believable way. I just wish more of the bridge crew had seen a little bit more development as well.

The special effects also tend to be like nothing Trek has gotten before, and the style is slick and eye-catching in a way Orville isn't.

And although I'm liking the show, it still doesn't quite feel like Trek to me. Take the last, or maybe second to the last episode, where Captain Pike goes into a shuttle and into the time anomaly and the giant time squid comes in... it's treated like a tiny little side thing, which, is likely to have consequences later on, which is great! But at the same time, it's still treated by the writers and the crew of the discovery as kind of like ok, well that happened... anyway, where were we?

I could see a TNG episode with a similar premise all about this encounter, with the crew trying to figure out what this thing was where it came from, with each crew member bringing in his or her own perspective into the investigation.

It's hard to describe, but I feel like past Trek crews and the overall writing of the show tended towards attempting to answer the question: How would the crew of a space ship on a scientific mission of discovery, with top-notch professionals in the fields of engineering and science handle encountering "X" phenomena.

While on discovery it feels like the crew is stuck inside a comic book. The writers aren't looking for an answer to a question, everything that happens is a vehicle for the storytelling.

I don't think this is wrong, or even bad, as mentioned, I'm liking the show, especially after season 1. But it feels off from what I feel is the "vibe" of star trek. I'd like to see that star trek sense of discovery and exploration and nuance brought into the show once in a while too.

Mazzo · Mar 11, 2019

Disco was never really that bad. Besides, every Star Trek show has a fair number of stinker episodes.

If only the camera could stop spinning for a while.

Merrill · Mar 11, 2019

Agreed it's great now. At least until they get rid of Pike.

He has single handedly saved the show. Amazing casting. I hope he stays on..

hibikase · Mar 11, 2019

Kschreck said:
Season 2 feels almost like a bit of a reboot. Lighter tone, a more natural Star Trek like structure, characters working together more, longer episodes which means more time for character development, etc. This season feels a lot better then the first season did.

Nope! Really wish it did air in full 4K/HDR but unfortunately it does not. I did hear it's at least got HDR on Netflix internationally but still in 1080p. Wish they would release 4K box sets as well but very unlikely to ever happen.

I really hope that isn't the twist because even I would admit that to being lame as hell.

Why would Michael even be in the future and how would she even have such advance technology that is said to be 500 years out? It doesn't make any sense as to why it would be Michael and besides how would a future version of Michael travel back in time to stop herself being eaten alive on Vulcan as a child? She wouldn't have existed in the first place to become the future version. So yeah if it IS Michael from the future... that would be lame as hell so I'm hoping you are wrong here. Surely it's someone else...

The red angel is going to be a character we already know. That's pretty much guaranteed. They're not going to make up a new person for that because then it won't be impactful. Furthermore, in the clearest closeup we've seen of the red angel so far, they have a definite feminine body figure. So yeah, maybe it won't be Michael, but it will be one of the female characters, though since this show hates all its supporting characters it means she's still very likely. Maybe Giorgou.

Sotha_Sil · Mar 11, 2019

I wasn't a fan of the first season, but I'm willing to give the second a shot. If I gave up on TNG or DS9 after one season I'd have missed out on so many quality hours of entertainment. I've heard S2 is a bit more Trek-like.

Seems to me like Pike will make or break the show once I start. They killed all the interesting characters except for Saru in the first season.

s_mirage · Mar 11, 2019

Mazzo said:
Disco was never really that bad. Besides, every Star Trek show has a fair number of stinker episodes.

I'd argue that there was at least as much bad as there was good in the first two seasons of TNG. This is why it annoys me so much when some TNG fans obsessively nitpick Discovery while not holding their favourite series to the same degree of scrutiny, and are overly eager to shit on Discovery episodes while conveniently ignoring cringefests present early on in TNG like the arguably racist "Code of Honor". Can you imagine the online reaction today if that was the fourth episode of a new Star Trek series?

CreeperBlocks · Mar 11, 2019

I want Pike to stay for the entire series. Anson Mount is a really good Star Trek Captain.

HellofaMouse · Mar 11, 2019

I thought it was good to begin with?

The Fabled Englishman · Mar 11, 2019

I'm enjoying season 2 more than season 1. That being said, the show still has some egregious writing problems. The pacing of some episodes is like a bull at a gate and it has the old Enterprise problem of packing too many tangentially-related subplots into single episodes. The Saru terminal illness subplot was completely undermined by the 50 other things going on in the same episode.

DieH@rd · Mar 11, 2019

I don't agree. Show is a bit better, but it's still bad.

It's a nice watch for fans of space action adventures though.

Himynameischris · Mar 11, 2019

Yes season 2 has been amazing (And I loved season 1) also we have to remember TNG/DS9/VOY had 20+ episodes per season, there is a lot of trash in the early seasons for those shows. A LOT.

PSqueak · Mar 11, 2019

Stouffers said:
The guy who plays Pike is outstanding

Pike definitely was a great addition to the S2 roster.

nekkid said:
People go on about how amazing Tilly is, and yeah - I don't get it. And we're supposed to buy into her being command material...

I feel like im in a weird middle dimension, i have never seen people praise Tilly, but i personally don't hate her, i like Tilly as the lighter character and comic relief.

louiedog · Mar 11, 2019

I grew tired of the Klingon stuff in DS9 and season 1 of Discovery was like that, but with worse Klingon stuff. I'm enjoying season 2 a lot though.

Himynameischris said:
Yes season 2 has been amazing (And I loved season 1) also we have to remember TNG/DS9/VOY had 20+ episodes per season, there is a lot of trash in the early seasons for those shows. A LOT.

Yeah, it kind of amazes me how angry Star Trek fans I'm friends with are about this when I know some of those same people insist the best way to watch TNG is by skipping most of seasons 1 and 2.

Mazzo · Mar 11, 2019

s_mirage said:
I'd argue that there was at least as much bad as there was good in the first two seasons of TNG. This is why it annoys me so much when some TNG fans obsessively nitpick Discovery while not holding their favourite series to the same degree of scrutiny, and are overly eager to shit on Discovery episodes while conveniently ignoring cringefests present early on in TNG like the arguably racist "Code of Honor". Can you imagine the online reaction today if that was the fourth episode of a new Star Trek series?

I don't recall that episode specifically but I remember the first season of TNG being ROUGH. I'm glad TNG wasn't my first Star Trek show, even though it has some of my favorite episodes.

Window · Mar 11, 2019

Yeah Ill give Discovery the credit of getting me to watch every episode. I couldn't do that with any other Star Trek show (but that may be because it's serialised and still airing so I don't know what's bad and can be skipped). I definitely think it's a good show.

Stouffers · Mar 11, 2019

PSqueak said:
Pike definitely was a great addition to the S2 roster.

I feel like im in a weird middle dimension, i have never seen people praise Tilly, but i personally don't hate her, i like Tilly as the lighter character and comic relief.

I really liked the "time" exchange and pay off between her and Pike.

Joeytj · Mar 11, 2019

It's been a lot better. My bf wasn't enjoying Discovery much in S1 and only kept watching because I'm a huge Trek nerd, but now he's fully on board as well. And I keep hearing nothing but good things from casual viewers, anecdotally. Friends and friends of friends are digging the show. Even the parts about the show I still don't like -Voq, Klingons, Zombie Dr. Culbert- were good in this latest episode and finally paid off.

And I love, LOVE Pike.

Stouffers · Mar 11, 2019

They've yet to show any real flaws with Pike, though. Hopefully they don't make him like anti-Semitic or he killed a bunch of younglings in his youth.

Deleted member 8860 · Mar 11, 2019

I like Pike, but mostly due to the actor's charisma. He's pretty much a generic non-entity as a character, unlike the others who sat in that chair (Lorca, Saru, and Geogeou).

And Season 2 is still super serialized not-Trek, with the exception of two, maybe three episodes.

Stouffers · Mar 11, 2019

I find all the "not-Trek" talk both funny and nostalgic. The same thing was said about Wrath of Khan, TNG, First Contact, DS9, the 2009 and now Discovery. I'd argue there's more not-Trek than actual Trek.

Star Trek: Discovery Is Really Good Now! Give It A Second Chance!

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