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Star Trek Discovery |OT| To Boldly go into the new streaming era
- Thread starter berzeli
- Start date
NX-01 encountered cloaking devices due to the temporal Cold War, and it's debatable whether that stuff carried forward after the timeline reset at the start of season 4.
I think the reason why cloaking devices bother me more than other technology is because the established canon is really interesting.
I think the reason why cloaking devices bother me more than other technology is because the established canon is really interesting.
I mean, they were clearly gunning for it. That is 'considering' it, even if they didn't go through with it in the end.
Novelverse retcon: The Klingon history texts smooth over this part of history so it gels better with future preferences and standards.
Or maybe when Martok said that he meant as far as he knows, he might not be aware of the aborted attack on earth, I doubt that he's a historian so if it is in history books or not would be irrelevant and I don't think klingon operas will be written about an aborted attack on earth. Just look at our history books, they list countless facts that people don't know.
And remember when Wesley said we're starfleet, we don't lie or something like that despite there being countless examples of starfleet officers doing just that? Characters can be wrong! Fans sometimes act like everything every character ever said is a historical fact within the star trek universe but that's obviously not the case. Discovery comtradicting Martok isn't a problem and doesn't have to be explained in my opinion.
Also bigger idiots. Lets test our secret weapon against the planet we want to attack, thus giving them an entire year to potentially stop us!
The amount of times star trek has broken canon makes breaking canon the absolute most trekker thing to do. The debate about how much canon truely matters goes out the window when you end up with entire forums (hello Reddit) who need to come up with justifications and theories that range from "bending over backwards" to "batshit crazy" to reconcile different things just shows that. The entire series of enterprise is "retcon the series". or how about the kilingons in a super early episode of TNG being mentioned in on screen dialogue as having joined the federation. I dare, absolutely dare anyone to reconcile that.
But hey, in the first season episode TNG "hearts of glory" there's a federation seal on a klingon vessel. Reconcile that
The amount of times star trek has broken canon makes breaking canon the absolute most trekker thing to do. The debate about how much canon truely matters goes out the window when you end up with entire forums (hello Reddit) who need to come up with justifications and theories that range from "bending over backwards" to "batshit crazy" to reconcile different things just shows that. The entire series of enterprise is "retcon the series". or how about the kilingons in a super early episode of TNG being mentioned in on screen dialogue as having joined the federation. I dare, absolutely dare anyone to reconcile that.
But hey, in the first season episode TNG "hearts of glory" there's a federation seal on a klingon vessel. Reconcile that
The Klingons were in a federation alliance, in canon and has been shown on screen.
Off camera they were originally going to be federation members but the TNG writers later decided a different reason for Worf to be serving and corrected this on screen by making it an alliance.
Correcting it on screen means no canon was broke. Plus TNG wasn't trying to fit in as a prequel, they had nothing established ahead in the timeline to clash with so they got to make it up as they went.
STD has not corrected it's mistakes and likely never will due to the nature of the mistakes, it is a prequel refusing to acknowledge a lot of what is ahead of it. Unlike TNG the writers can't just make it up as they go.
Isn't changing something previously established exactly what a retcon is? Wish I remember what episode, was a scene with pulanski. But it specifically says they joined the federation. Let's not even talk about things temporal police. Where were they during the Borg I first contact? Or what about in the finale of voyager? How about section 31? That's a convenient one. The stuff gets so convoluted that if someone cares 1000% about canon basically they should have stopped watching a LONG time ago. Also let's retcon whose really in charge with the Orion's. This all stuff off the top of my head. If someone REALLY wanted to deep dive and do research the series entire continuity is a mess
I believe the temporal police only interfere when time travelers from their time interfere with history, not when random temperal anomalies happen or when the past travels to the past (as they can see it all gets fixed eventually).
Well this should go over well
Spock Confirmed To Appear In Star Trek: Discovery Season 2
Also while on the site I saw this, since we're on the topic of canon I thought it was a fun read
15 Things Wrong With Star Trek We All Choose To Ignore
Edit: Also the time police should have interfered with Janeway in the final, she changed a ton of stuff from the prime timeline.
Spock Confirmed To Appear In Star Trek: Discovery Season 2
Also while on the site I saw this, since we're on the topic of canon I thought it was a fun read
15 Things Wrong With Star Trek We All Choose To Ignore
Edit: Also the time police should have interfered with Janeway in the final, she changed a ton of stuff from the prime timeline.
Yep... casting for the new Spock is probably happening now then, unless we are getting a really young Spock
I hope we get adult Spock. Majority of people really aren't going to care. He just needs to really look the part in this case and act decently enough. That idea that a new actor is playing the younger version of an existing character is not new to people. Multiple people playing Spock shouldn't be new to people either. I'm not just talking about Qunito. Multiple people play them in Star Trek 3 as he ages up with Nimoy showing up at the end. Nimoy has been gone for a few years now. I doubt anyone wants to see a complete CGI recreation of him ala Tarkin in Star Wars on a TV budget even if that budget is big.
I'd be up for another take on adult Spock from a new actor. I honestly didn't love Quinto's performance nearly as much as most people seem to--he just didn't have anything approaching the gravitas of Nimoy, for me.
Karl Urban's Bones, though... It's like the guy was channelling the spirit of DeForest Kelley.
Karl Urban's Bones, though... It's like the guy was channelling the spirit of DeForest Kelley.
Yeah out of the new cast Bone is my favorite, with Uhura probably my least favorite, and nothing against Zoe, just the character seems totally different.
Edit: Some more tidbits, lots of star trek stuff out today
Star Trek: Discovery's Version of the Enterprise Had to Be Modified for Legal Reasons
I thought the legal issues were between the movies and show, had no idea it would impact the show as well. In that case I think they did a great job with the refit Enterprise.
Edit: Some more tidbits, lots of star trek stuff out today
Star Trek: Discovery's Version of the Enterprise Had to Be Modified for Legal Reasons
I thought the legal issues were between the movies and show, had no idea it would impact the show as well. In that case I think they did a great job with the refit Enterprise.
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Potentially one thing maybe requiring that doesn't mean they're right about things. Broken clock. Other things look exactly the same. Other things are changed simply because it's 2010s and not the 1960s. The last thing anyone should be doing is giving ME the benefit of the doubt. Don't let that start with this. They're still liars. They're still the same people that will take one thing that is true or simply could be reasoned about and act like they know more or will twist something to get the most negative result because they can.
It depends on what kind of interferences they act on. Since Janeway is way in their past, both when she starts acting and where she acts, they may not be interested in this, because her actions may be an established part of their own timeline's past.
That's crazy though because we have no idea how much she would have changed.
Then again, they also let Harry Kim change the future too. Except with Kim it was just a message... with Janeway, she could have literally gone back to when Voyager was at DS9 and just stopped the ship from ever leaving. lol
CBS owns the Star Trek IP and they own the original designs (see every piece of merchandise where they slap the companies name on), they can certainly use them on Discovery if they want to. "Legal reasons" is a very vague statement, it doesn't have to mean "not allowed to use it", on another board I read it is likely the legal reasons refer to merchandise deals, if they use the Enterprise unchanged it would most likely fall under existing deals, by changing it they are creating a new Discovery version which they can market and sell separately.
Except then you'd have species 8742 running unchecked and no seven of nine. The Maquis crew would be fucked, likely dead.
Bit at least original Harry would be there
How many original Voyager people died though? And they fucked up the Kazon, the Hirogen, and tons of other planets I'm probably forgetting.
I hope we get new promotional images now that filming has started. Would like to see what the uniform Pike wears looks like. Maybe a hint at the Enterprise bridge. Maybe the crew in newer uniforms? Hairstyles? New locations? Curious to see if the Discovery model or other ships were detailed further.
Knowing they started shooting makes me happy. I both want and don't want many teases over the coming months.
I'm writing on American Gods and the timing didn't work out.
Ahhhh right, I think you mentioned that before. Congrats, again.
I've been watching it with my fiance who enjoys SciFi but has never been a star trek person. She really enjoys the show, my favourite part is her being genuinely surprised by the "twists" everyone in the trekcfandom has derided as super obvious. Sometimes I wonder if being so much into it and analysis just takes all the fun out of it and we're not able to enjoy it as intended
Not sure I can give season 2 a chance.
I don't GAF about cannon issues, or the new Klingons, or astetic choices. The production values are great.
But fuck was that first season uninspired plot, dialogue, acting, and editing was a drag. Doug Jones / Saru was the only character I could latch onto. Over all it felt like a bigger buget Trek that took all the wrong lessons from very medicore modern broadcast tv.
Was hoping for more Westworld / BSG / Expanse. Got CSI Kronos instead.
I don't GAF about cannon issues, or the new Klingons, or astetic choices. The production values are great.
But fuck was that first season uninspired plot, dialogue, acting, and editing was a drag. Doug Jones / Saru was the only character I could latch onto. Over all it felt like a bigger buget Trek that took all the wrong lessons from very medicore modern broadcast tv.
Was hoping for more Westworld / BSG / Expanse. Got CSI Kronos instead.
That's the thing though. The Mirror Universe means nothing to someone who isn't a fan of the series, so it's not really a twist worth saving. In fact, for someone who isn't into Star Trek, the dramatic irony of seeing Lorca trying to manipulate the Discovery crew would have actually been more interesting - like, say, seeing Walter White trying to scam people during his meth production years. I just don't know what enjoying it as "intended" means when I don't know if being surprised necessarily added anything other than justifying Lorca being a terrible Starfleet officer (which in some ways is less interesting, in the context of even the worst captain ever, Janeway).
I don't agree it means nothing. I think it means something different and that's fine. It also doesn't have to mean anything in particular other then be an interesting story change that provides another problem for the characters to confront. There are plenty of people enjoying the show with no knowledge of Trek and that's fine.
Over analyzing everything, which is what Trek fandom seems to do, does hurt. I think that is clear. I've said so before that I think some people kept trying to get out ahead of the writers while watching. Trying to determine what was going to happen and what should happen and then being upset when it did or didn't happen. Trying to predict something instead of just letting the show flow. Just go along for the ride. Don't be a critic while watching something. Be that afterward once you have the entire picture.
That was almost a decade ago. He wouldn't be a kid anymore.
He's only going to appear in flashbacks while growing up with Michael, so that's why they are casting a young spock. They haven't confirmed if they are showing Spock on the Enterprise yet.
It's not Trek fandom though. There isn't this same type of speculation with DS9, either as it aired, or even after the fact. It's because of how people write TV now, which I'm beginning to find more and more infuriating - the fact that they want to spoil the entire season of Westworld before it airs is a sign of how even producers seem to think it's bullshit... but why write your shows like that if you hate it so much?
If this is someone's first Star Trek, I honestly don't know what you get out of it. It looks like and feels BSG but without the convictions that defined BSG in terms of actual flawed human beings like Baltar. The closest we get is Ash, and he's only flawed because of medical experiments. Lorca too, I suppose, but he's "naturally evil" so that's easily excused too.
This is just me, but I also found the mostly sexless gay relationship kind of disappointing, particularly when they at least take the time to show Ash and Michael having sex even when they're supposed to be on a secret mission. lol
I know that they hate the Discovery vs Orville comparisons, but no one is complaining about the meta-story on Orville because there just isn't one. They're simple episodic scifi adventures with a particular theme ("the gender episode", the "family episode", the "social media episode", etc). I mean there are other problems with Orville (it's literally ripping off Star Trek), so I'm not saying it's perfect either, but there isn't any kind of speculation with people watching the show.