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Good. I really do hope we get a lot more Star Trek moving forward and me and my friends will be there to support all of it.
My main concern is that the first season of discovery was a sort of Section 31 Trek. Like, not officially, but the basic premise was that Michael was a star fleet officer that went against star fleet principles and was serving under a captain who similarly went against Star Fleet Principles when it suited him. It became more complex and as Lorca died and Burnham realized that she wanted to full embrace Star Fleet Principles, the show now is what it is, with much less edgy grimdarkness and seemingly more optimistic and fun.
But it started off as section 31, and not only did that burn a lot of fans, right now, everyone seems way more on board with season 2's more lighthearted and optimistic tone than they ever were with the introduction of the first season. As for me, while I love the idea of section 31 existing as the darkest part of the federation in the show, I'm cautious of the idea of putting section 31 in center stage. Section 31 serves as a good contrast to what the doe eyed federation believers wish the universe to be, but if they're just center stage, then they need a different framework of existence.
But, of course, anything can be done well if it's done well. So hopefully it will be well done.
Edit: Also, while I'm not one who gets upset over morally questionable characters being major protagonist characters, it's nevertheless weird that Emperor Georgiou is accepted so enthusiastically by even section 31. She was like...an absolute monster that even villains from other franchises can barely aspire to. She committed multiple genocides, ate sentient beings, was casually murderous of everyone, and was a literal dictator that believed in subjugation which is a political philosophy we have no reason to believe she abandoned. I'm not saying the character shouldn't be in the federation working, I'm just saying I find it surprising how many are on board with her just being part of the gang. Of any gang. Even Section 31's gang.
But it started off as section 31, and not only did that burn a lot of fans, right now, everyone seems way more on board with season 2's more lighthearted and optimistic tone than they ever were with the introduction of the first season. As for me, while I love the idea of section 31 existing as the darkest part of the federation in the show, I'm cautious of the idea of putting section 31 in center stage. Section 31 serves as a good contrast to what the doe eyed federation believers wish the universe to be, but if they're just center stage, then they need a different framework of existence.
But, of course, anything can be done well if it's done well. So hopefully it will be well done.
Edit: Also, while I'm not one who gets upset over morally questionable characters being major protagonist characters, it's nevertheless weird that Emperor Georgiou is accepted so enthusiastically by even section 31. She was like...an absolute monster that even villains from other franchises can barely aspire to. She committed multiple genocides, ate sentient beings, was casually murderous of everyone, and was a literal dictator that believed in subjugation which is a political philosophy we have no reason to believe she abandoned. I'm not saying the character shouldn't be in the federation working, I'm just saying I find it surprising how many are on board with her just being part of the gang. Of any gang. Even Section 31's gang.
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Great episode, with a character story slant for the three characters, Michael, Tilly, and L'Rell. So much so, Captain Pike and the main Red Angel story takes a backseat. This story structure could unnerve some viewers who prefer the pacing of the last episode, but this format allows multiple "short trek" moments to be shoehorned into this episode and to allow characters to breathe and grow.
I've enjoyed the emotional interaction between Michael and her mother Amanda, in words, body gestures, and facial expression. The ruthless and deadly politics of the Klingon empire plays out wickedly with L'Rell at center stage and with a nice and timely surprise appearance of Georgiou. I'm a sucker for Klingon shenanigans, going back to the days of Worf. Oh yeah, hair...that's good karma, right? Finally. after her mental breakdown, l love the Tilly and Michael bonding moment. Sisterhood of the traveling stars. And I like the payoff of planting a "plot seed" in a previous episode, in this case, a seemingly innocent spore embedded in Tilly, that has consequences in future episodes.
I'm all aboard for any cloak and dagger Star Trek intrigue, via Georgiou and her new recruit Tyler. Section 31, the last black suit you'll ever wear.
I've enjoyed the emotional interaction between Michael and her mother Amanda, in words, body gestures, and facial expression. The ruthless and deadly politics of the Klingon empire plays out wickedly with L'Rell at center stage and with a nice and timely surprise appearance of Georgiou. I'm a sucker for Klingon shenanigans, going back to the days of Worf. Oh yeah, hair...that's good karma, right? Finally. after her mental breakdown, l love the Tilly and Michael bonding moment. Sisterhood of the traveling stars. And I like the payoff of planting a "plot seed" in a previous episode, in this case, a seemingly innocent spore embedded in Tilly, that has consequences in future episodes.
I'm all aboard for any cloak and dagger Star Trek intrigue, via Georgiou and her new recruit Tyler. Section 31, the last black suit you'll ever wear.
well section 31 did use biological warfare on the founders so i don't think they care much about what she did in the other universe hell they probably think it's a plus for the job
https://variety.com/2018/tv/features/star-trek-ds9-25th-anniversary-interview-1202648047/
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/h...ed-season-8-sharing-shows-untold-story-973343
https://io9.gizmodo.com/to-boldly-stay-how-deep-space-nine-upended-star-trek-b-1823186821
A relevant bit on Section 31:
Pretty much the same, but with BBSes instead of forums, Twitter, and Reddit.
I've been a Trekkie a long time, and I dont think I've seen any of the previous casts having as much fun as Discovery's.
I finally got around to watching the Carpool Kareoke episode with the Discovery cast. That was fun.
I liked the Star Trek Discovery: The Musical section, heh
edit - didn't even see the post above me heh
I liked the Star Trek Discovery: The Musical section, heh
edit - didn't even see the post above me heh
Should also add I loved the face Georgiou was pulling at the baby before Tyler turned to look at her when she then scowled again. She's not as evil as she makes out.
Also on the being inside Tilly
Also on the being inside Tilly
seems to keep suggesting that Stammets is an imposter. Off the top of my head I don't recall what happened of evil universe Stammets.
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He woke up in MU and probably died when ship exploded,
Edit: nm guess Landry got him
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Anthony Rap just "liked" one of my tweets regarding that Carpool Karaoke videos. That's awesome lol.
You're a celebrity at ERA now.
I'm picturing them trying to use her like a weapon to aim at their enemies, like a better Khan from Into Darkness.
I really like that a lot of the cast is so active on twitter. Normally I would just think it's someone controlling their accounts and a lot of times that's the case with some actors but I don't get that feeling at all. Not just with the Discovery cast but a LOT of Trek actors that are on twitter.
So, on the one hand, Section 31 show, Picard show... so... three shows in production? For real? That's pretty badass.
On the other hand, the easy win was Lorca as lead on a Section 31 show. I forget did Enterprise decide to do an episode where Section 31 gets founded? If not Lorca should've come up with the whole damn thing! Mirror Emperor Georgiou is just too cheesy.
Someone upthread mentioned Pike/Enterprise show with a "The Cage" remake as a finale. I'm all in for that idea. That would be rad as hell. Four shows. Let's do it CBS. You the Star Trek Channel now. Only problem is... we don't really know if the Spock they cast is decent.
Also what's the deal with the Karaoke thing? I thought that was a... that one guy with a late night show bit... They turned it into a standalone show? On... Apple? And yo. Dawg. Dawg. Not gonna lie. It got a little pitchy as soon as... well everyone after Anthony Rapp joined in.
On the other hand, the easy win was Lorca as lead on a Section 31 show. I forget did Enterprise decide to do an episode where Section 31 gets founded? If not Lorca should've come up with the whole damn thing! Mirror Emperor Georgiou is just too cheesy.
Someone upthread mentioned Pike/Enterprise show with a "The Cage" remake as a finale. I'm all in for that idea. That would be rad as hell. Four shows. Let's do it CBS. You the Star Trek Channel now. Only problem is... we don't really know if the Spock they cast is decent.
Also what's the deal with the Karaoke thing? I thought that was a... that one guy with a late night show bit... They turned it into a standalone show? On... Apple? And yo. Dawg. Dawg. Not gonna lie. It got a little pitchy as soon as... well everyone after Anthony Rapp joined in.
I'm pretty sure Discovery is that show. The Cage took place about 3 years ago in the current Pike timeline so whatever happened, it's behind him. Let Pike have too much fun with Discovery and be it's Capt until he ends up with radiation poisoning. Then, let Saru become the captain. That way they can have the Enterprise refit those nacelles and get back to its original style design, but with a modern polish.
I just watched the menagerie and pike doesn't suffer from delta poisoning until 9-10 years from the current timeline
Yeah I said the same while watching it. A few less of those kinds of shots pls.
Was OG Lorca a badass like Mirror Lorca though?
I'm definitely onboard for more Pike/Ent. It can just be set during the 5 year mission during the war and we already know how they played no part in it.
Are Spocks whereabouts during that time nailed down already?
I forgot about that. On the one hand... it seems kind of dubious to me. On the other hand... 525,600 Star Treks.
I meant Mirror Lorca, I just kind of assume OG Lorca was a spineless ninny. Though granted Mirror Lorca got a bit cartoony himself when his true self was revealed and he got caught up in the wash with the Mirror Georgiou stuff.
They've always got that 'real Lorca survived the MU' card up their sleeve if they want to use it.
I realized that I hate everything that is either about the Klingons or about Michael and Spock in this show.
All the rest is pretty good/cool. Tilly, Philips, Stamets, even Pike, Saru, that Robot on the bridge. Philipa saved the last episode without much screen time.
If they just stop with this nonsense about Spock I would appreciate much more the show
All the rest is pretty good/cool. Tilly, Philips, Stamets, even Pike, Saru, that Robot on the bridge. Philipa saved the last episode without much screen time.
If they just stop with this nonsense about Spock I would appreciate much more the show
I thought Point Of Light was pretty solid, like a good 6.5/10. I didn't love it, but I generally liked it even if it felt a bit Season 1-ish. I've come to the conclusion that while I don't dislike Season 1 of Discovery, I've never had the urge to rewatch it except for one time with the Mudd time loop episode.
Not getting Matt Berry to play a Klingon is a giant missed opportunity. If he doesn't appear as a S31 operative in the spinoff I'll be mad.
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This adds dimensions to Georgiou's character, that despite her ruthless demeanor, she may retain some semblance of humanity if not compassion. Non-verbal gestures and facial expressions can convey much about a character as much as dialogue and action.
Exactly. Part of it is all just about projection. I'm not suggesting she spends her Sundays in a huge bubble bath, but she's not the cutthroat bitch that has been portrayed until this point. Bearing in mind she made reference to her own kids earlier in the episode as if they were nothing to her.
You shut the fuck up, Ash Tyler - you fake ass Klingon in a patak's body.
Ha. True enough. Maybe a glimmer of humanity was just nice to see.
That whole episode felt like a boring backdoor pilot for the show that's coming up, so...
Yes! Set to air after Discovery season 3.
I think the only way it could be interesting is if they just admit that the people in S31 are pure evil and don't try to redeem them ala Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul/Suicide Squad. But I'm sure they'll just be anti-heroes like everyone else on TV nowadays.
Thing is I don't think Section 31 has ever been shown as pure evil though or even just evil. I know some want them to be that way as to not "ruin" the idea that a utopia could be formed without hidden help but showing them that way would actually being going against what little we do know about them.
As Effect said, they're not evil, they're just the epitome of ends justify the means in contrast to the Federation idealism. In a way, taking in Super Space Hitler makes sense since for them since the Terran Empire is what they are all about. Not the imperialistic, moustache twirling, eating sentient beings part, but the twisted version of post-utopia humanity's singular drive to improve themselves. I may need to rewatch Enterprise's mirror universe episode but the first encounter with Vulcans in both universes lead the end of intrahuman bigotry.
It still contrasts so heavily with the general tone that I love and fundamentally undermines the aspirational quality of Star Trek, which makes it so unneeded. It adds to the show in the same way digging a hole in your lawn is technically increases the surface area.
I agree that S31 shouldnt be portrayed as cackling bad guys. Usually they seem to operate with the best intentions (for the Federation at least). However, Imo the series should show that as often as their tactics might work they fail or are counterproductive overall in the end. Much like Special Circumstances in the Culture the viewers should be taken on a ride from 'this is what it takes to maintain utopia' to 'is this really necessary or helpful?' Not sure they have the nuance to make a series like that though.
I dunno I always liked the idea of Section 31. The idea that the goody two-shoes Federation's clandestine arm was every bit as evil/diabolical as the Tal Shiar or Obsidian Order.
That just isn't that interesting to me given that we have idealistic anti-heroes already - like Michael Eddington.
The S31 we saw in DS9 was ready to commit genocide - something even Picard couldn't do to the Borg. If they're just Star Trek's suicide squad, that is a bunch of bad asses in black leather trench coats instead of neon lycra jumpsuits, then what's the point?
Like you said, Star Trek has the Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order as a classic sci-fi tool of using aliens as a mirror to humanity. What's more is that those organization benefit from the lack of details and obscurity from a narrative perspective. I don't see how a show that will need to go into detail about a human equivalent of those amoral organizations is appealing.
Oh I agree, which is why I said they are boring. I just don't think retconning them to be just straight up evil instead of amoral will really support a show much less an episode though and would frankly make their existence even worse.
At least one of the writers at TrekMovie, if not all of them, seems to be hedging their bets on the seventh episode being our Spock intro. If so, it's gonna be a while.