Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 |OT| Exploration is logical

MCN

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,289
United Kingdom
One of the things I really do like about the latest "Previously on Star Trek" and the latest episode is that there was no attempt at all to explain why things looked different. They just are because they were filmed at different points of time and the show has the faith the viewer will clearly understand that. Trek as a franchise needs to put a damn stop to trying to "explain" everything in universe when it looks different. It causes more problems then not when it's attempted. Explaining events is one thing. Providing a new piece of evidence or conversation is one thing. Giving more context to something is great. A great example of this is Lethe in regard to the relationship between Spock and Sarek. Going out of your way to create arcs to explain why something looks different is to far. Accept older productions had less money and tech to make the show and the new production has more and more advances and call it a day.
I find myself wondering if people who demand explanations for things like that, also demand an explanation for the different models and textures in, say, Halo: MCC.
 

Entryhazard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,742
Most examples of past interference time travel in Trek are predestination paradoxes, meaning events already happened the way they did with future interference always part of history, even before we see it on screen.
The ending of that DS9 episode confirms that in the historical records Bell wasn't supposed to look identical to Sisko
 

Minamu

Member
Nov 18, 2017
834
Sweden
It's a summary of the TOS pilot, "The Cage", which has Pike first visit Talos IV. Google it.
Yes that I know of, I've seen it too maaany years ago. What I don't get is, isn't that episode set in the future technically? In the canon. But Pike knew who Niva is as if the episode had already happened. That confused me, I must've missed something.
 

MCN

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,289
United Kingdom
Yes that I know of, I've seen it too maaany years ago. What I don't get is, isn't that episode set in the future technically? In the canon. But Pike knew who Niva is as if the episode had already happened. That confused me, I must've missed something.
The Cage takes place around 10 years before the rest of The Original Series. Discovery takes place after The Cage, but before TOS.
 

Guppeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,384
Sheffield, UK
Yes that I know of, I've seen it too maaany years ago. What I don't get is, isn't that episode set in the future technically? In the canon. But Pike knew who Niva is as if the episode had already happened. That confused me, I must've missed something.
The Cage happened during Pike's 5 year mission, which he just got back from in Disco. Enterprise then goes out for another 5 years under Kirk's command.
 

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,370
Yes that I know of, I've seen it too maaany years ago. What I don't get is, isn't that episode set in the future technically? In the canon. But Pike knew who Niva is as if the episode had already happened. That confused me, I must've missed something.

No. Read my previous posts. The Cage, as the Star Trek pilot, was set before the Discovery year. The original series was reworked and when the series launched the story begins ten years after The Cage.

So the timeline is The Cage -> Discovery -> Star Trek original series.

That episode was already past to Pike and was used as a flashback in The Menagerie episode of ST.
 

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,370
But now I am thinking: The original 5 years mission of Enterprise with Pike was before/during the Klingon war. After Discovery he will be on the captain’s charge of Enterprise for more like 8 years before got promoted. What Enterprise was doing at that time? Is it covered by anything in the lore? That another opportunity for a series....
 

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,172
I’m just thinking one of the reasons Pike was so miserable in the cage was due to the fact the federation were in a distant war. It adds so much to the cage when you think like that.
 

DBT85

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,242
I usually take those comments to be trolls because it makes no sense otherwise. It's not just worse when it's said but it has no redeeming qualities too? WTF!?

Anyway time travel in Star Trek is a mess. I rather it not be done because of it but when it is you have to just accept certain things and don't bother most times trying to figure things out further then what is said on screen.

One of the things I really do like about the latest "Previously on Star Trek" and the latest episode is that there was no attempt at all to explain why things looked different. They just are because they were filmed at different points of time and the show has the faith the viewer will clearly understand that. Trek as a franchise needs to put a damn stop to trying to "explain" everything in universe when it looks different. It causes more problems then not when it's attempted. Explaining events is one thing. Providing a new piece of evidence or conversation is one thing. Giving more context to something is great. A great example of this is Lethe in regard to the relationship between Spock and Sarek. Going out of your way to create arcs to explain why something looks different is to far. Accept older productions had less money and tech to make the show and the new production has more and more advances and call it a day.
Agreed. Just assuming people are intelligent enough to know that things look a little different because it's filmed a bunch of decades apart is fine.

Klingons not having ridges could have been completely ignored were it not for the DS9 time travel episode where worf has them.
 

DBT85

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,242
But now I am thinking: The original 5 years mission of Enterprise with Pike was before/during the Klingon war. After Discovery he will be on the captain’s charge of Enterprise for more like 8 years before got promoted. What Enterprise was doing at that time? Is it covered by anything in the lore? That another opportunity for a series....
Oh yeah. Either before or after disco there is a series there for the Enterprise and Pike if they wanted to do it.
 

Skyfireblaze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,295
I usually take those comments to be trolls because it makes no sense otherwise. It's not just worse when it's said but it has no redeeming qualities too? WTF!?

Anyway time travel in Star Trek is a mess. I rather it not be done because of it but when it is you have to just accept certain things and don't bother most times trying to figure things out further then what is said on screen.

One of the things I really do like about the latest "Previously on Star Trek" and the latest episode is that there was no attempt at all to explain why things looked different. They just are because they were filmed at different points of time and the show has the faith the viewer will clearly understand that. Trek as a franchise needs to put a damn stop to trying to "explain" everything in universe when it looks different. It causes more problems then not when it's attempted. Explaining events is one thing. Providing a new piece of evidence or conversation is one thing. Giving more context to something is great. A great example of this is Lethe in regard to the relationship between Spock and Sarek. Going out of your way to create arcs to explain why something looks different is to far. Accept older productions had less money and tech to make the show and the new production has more and more advances and call it a day.
Honestly I don't get people demanding a explanation of that either. I always saw these things as, Star Trek is a tale of a story that is told and as our own technology advances we are better able to show how the technology in Star Trek is handled, that's it.
 

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,370
Oh yeah. Either before or after disco there is a series there for the Enterprise and Pike if they wanted to do it.
But after we will not get to see the fancy hologram tech 😄

Hummm... that may be the reason they may be reticent to make an Enterprise show. They will have to show its bridge and in any case that will start a storm of complains....

Or set the show in the original 5 years mission and say any change was due to the remodeling/downgrading of Enterprise after the massive mechanical failures it suffers in its return (as show in Disco). Poor Kirk got robbered on a second hand ship.
 

DBT85

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,242
But after we will not get to see the fancy hologram tech 😄

Hummm... that may be the reason they may be reticent to make an Enterprise show. They will have to show its bridge and in any case that will start a storm of complains....

Or set the show in the original 5 years mission and say any change was due to the remodeling/downgrading of Enterprise after the massive mechanical failures it suffers in its return (as show in Disco). Poor Kirk got robbered on a second hand ship.
Yeah that could easily be a reason for it. Certain people will be up in arms.
 

Volimar

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
11,177
Any theories to what wipes out the galaxy? Saw some ships...

Spock says it will wipe out all sentient life in the galaxy. That would mean it's either a threat from outside of the galaxy or more likely the Runaway AI theory that was posited earlier in the thread. I'll assume Spock was excluding whatever force was doing the destroying from being destroyed itself.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,846
If the probe used SQL injection to hack Discovery, it must have managed to hack Ariam with a Chromium or Flash exploit.

I can't believe the shit thiese writers can come up with.
 

Noodle

Member
Aug 22, 2018
1,334

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,172
What if the theory posted above is true and it lead to the rollback in technology for fear of an
AI threat
 

Rad Bandolar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,120
SoCal
The "Control" referenced briefly last episode is an AI that runs Section 31 and eventually decides to wipe out organics. Remember Georgiou's throwaway line of "taking orders from AI".

https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/az2rqm/a_summary_of_what_the_novelverses_control_is_mild/
If this is the case then
Kirk immediately destroying any computer in control of a society makes more sense.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,007
The time period of the squid thing that attacked the shuttle is the 2700s, same century as Future Guy from Enterprise, who are not meant to have the ability to time travel, so I don't know how this future force have the ability.
Considering how much time travel there is in Star Trek it's kinda stupid to assume they haven't figured it out by 2700, however the tech could come from elsewhere, doesn't have to be human tech that the red angle is using.
 

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,370

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,370
Whenever you get around to watching TOS, check out the episodes featuring:
Landru
The M-5
Vaal
The planet where they use a computer to determine who dies in a war

Kirk is like a bloodhound. If he even catches the whiff of computer control over a society, he’ll destroy it.

Yeah, I remember that. What I am saying is
that story would be too similar to BSG to be made these days, even if ST touched the subject first

And I agree with the theory that
the red angel is someone from the future trying to change the past to save it from a Control A.I. eliminating all sentient carbone-based life, also a part of its A.I. came back to through the time vortex and hacked Discovery, now currently in the body of Airiam.

I just don´t see this storyline to be the justification of different level of technologies between series. The original series was like that just because it was made 50 years ago.
 

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,370
The way he says the angel is lonely and upset right after he pushes Micheal away after she tries being friendly makes me think it actually is Micheal.
I thought that at first but the Angel cannot be Michael because the Angel went back in time to save Michael from death. So Michael was not alive in the future to be the angel, who changed the timeline.
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,767
I thought that at first but the Angel cannot be Michael because the Angel went back in time to save Michael from death. So Michael was not alive in the future to be the angel, who changed the timeline.
Micheal travels back to tell Spock because she knows that is how Spock saves her.

It's just a bootstrap paradox and is used often in sci-fi.

Google 'Doctor Who bootstrap paradox' for a clear example.
Edit: I'll do it.

 

tsmoreau

Member
Oct 27, 2017
519
Micheal travels back to tell Spock because she knows that is how Spock saves her.

It's just a bootstrap paradox and is used often in sci-fi.

Google 'Doctor Who bootstrap paradox' for a clear explanation.
Yup, it's the Leia Rule.

What are they gonna just pull out another female character that's as important to the plot as Michael, but as yet unintroduced?

Red Angel is Georgiou, lol
 

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,370
Red Angel is Georgiou, lol
Well she clearly hates A.I.s.


Wait a minute, thinking about that she can be, as she already mention that she never let an A.I. tell her what to do, and surely an opositing A.I. is against her plans. Plus it would be a redemption arc for her, being alone for that much time. But she also said she knew her version of Michael. Who saved Michael in the Terran Universe?
 

Rad Bandolar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,120
SoCal
I just finished watching the latest episode again, and I not only love the "Previously on Star Trek..." bit at the beginning, but the cut to Pike at the end was really effective. It really hit the mark for me, knowing his fate and how much he's entangled with Talos IV. His scenes with Vina later on add a lot more shading to their relationship as well.

In a way, this episode serves as a nice bridge between The Cage and The Menagerie.
 
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tsmoreau

Member
Oct 27, 2017
519
Well she clearly hates A.I.s.


Wait a minute, thinking about that she can be, as she already mention that she never let an A.I. tell her what to do, and surely an opositing A.I. is against her plans. Plus it would be a redemption arc for her, being alone for that much time. But she also said she knew her version of Michael. Who saved Michael in the Terran Universe?
Hey, the huge lifeform that's possessed the cyborg crew member has a red hue to its possession signature...
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,007
I just had a thought regarding the red angel

My guess is that it's probably going to be Airiam, since she's part cyborg, it would make sense for her to be able to survive somehow until ~2700, since she's been hijacked by whatever is in the future, she might have knowledge about future tech that might help her survive until then and time travel
 

Window

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,623
Why are people spoiler tagging speculations?

My theory - it's the original PU Georgiou.

It's going to be Michael most probably but that's such an obvious choice that it makes me think the writers would go with someone else.
 

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,172
Oh by the way I was watching Star Trek III and I swear I saw an airiam type character walking into the bar where bones loses it.
 

jedivulcan

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
941
The hips don't lie, Red angel is female.


There's a Short Trek with Rainn Wilson returning as Harry Mudd.

but yeah, the point is, at the end of the episode, you learn that Mudd was one of many android duplicates and the real Mudd was the masked individual with a feminine build at the beginning of it all.

The reveal shot is so poorly done because they had someone walk in front of the camera to switch actors. It wasn't timed properly. You could clearly see that they had a female actress in one shot and then Rainn Wilson pulling the helmet off.
 

Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,776
The Netherlands
Why are people spoiler tagging speculations?

My theory - it's the original PU Georgiou.

It's going to be Michael most probably but that's such an obvious choice that it makes me think the writers would go with someone else.
I wouldnt mind some more OG Georgiou.

The whole storyline reminds me a bit of Babylon 5's War Without End 2-parter, with Sinclair hopping around in time.
 

Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,776
The Netherlands
I just finished watching the latest episode again, and I not only love the "Previously on Star Trek..." bit at the beginning, but the cut to Pike at the end was really effective. It really hit the mark for me, knowing his fate and how much he's entangled with Talos IV. His scenes with Vina later on add a lot more shading to their relationship as well.

In a way, this episode serves as a nice bridge between The Cage and The Menagerie.
Assuming that next season will feature a different captain, I really hope that Pike gets some great scenes in the final episodes because I think Anson Mount really nailed that role. Please don't let him go out like Lorca :(
 

funky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,174
What if the red angel is the robotic bridge lady and its totally a time paradox loop of her "activating" herself and turning herself into the red angel.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,007
Assuming that next season will feature a different captain, I really hope that Pike gets some great scenes in the final episodes because I think Anson Mount really nailed that role. Please don't let him go out like Lorca :(
He can't, Pike returns to enterprise and we know his fate 10 years down the line thanks to the Menagerie.