Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 |OT| Exploration is logical

Lidl

Member
Dec 12, 2017
1,097
The original Star Trek scenes cut into the episode put me into cringe mode before the sql injections line cringed me into orbit. Overall the episode was ok though.
 

Joeytj

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,296
I've had a few friends give it a chance, completely unexpected too, they aren't trek fans, or even Sci-Fi fans really and they've been loving it. They keep texting me during all the big twists, I just had someone message be about Culber return lol
Yeah, same for me. Nothing but positive reactions from people I know, and who aren’t even big Star Trek fans.
 

Pluto

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,301
I noticed that there has been a lot more positive reviews and fan impressions around the internet. Not just here on ResetEra but also on YouTube and elsewhere. I am glad more and more people are enjoying the show. Season 2 has been really strong so far for me.
I listen to Feminist Frequency reviewing the show every week, they pretty much hated season 1 (not completely, like 85%), I still liked listening to them because they didn't hate it for the sake of hating it, they had actual reasons I understood even if I didn't agree. They too have come around during season 2, they're still not completely in love with the show but they get more positive every week. Anita outed herself as a total hypocrite because she thinks Pike's hot as fuck and she can't get enough of him, it's hilarious.
 

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,350
Micheal travels back to tell Spock because she knows that is how Spock saves her.

It's just a bootstrap paradox and is used often in sci-fi.

Google 'Doctor Who bootstrap paradox' for a clear example.
Edit: I'll do it.

Back to the theories discussion.

Yes, that is an example of a "closed loop" time paradox. It works in that exemple, but not here.

In the Doctor Who exemple, someone loves Beethoven and travel back in time to find him, could not find him and become Beethoven himself, "fulfiling" the role. It is a classic case of time travel messing with cause and action, where you cannot tell which came first. But nothing in the story, no action of the time travel prevents him to be born later in time, love Beethoven and wanted to go back in time. So the circle closes.

That is not happening if Michael is the Red Angel. Let´s see: it seems that the Red Angel is a time traveller from 500 years in the future, seems to be lonely and trying to prevent something bad. We can deduct she is the survival of something really bad, possible the only survival. So she saved Michael, who seems to be crucial in preventing the bad event. But there is also another being, who attacked the Discovery pod in the time disturbance and currently seems to be possing Airiam (so there is an oppositing force to Red Angel coming from the future, which seems to be trying to guarantee that those events happen).

If the Red Angel is Michael, her saving can be explained by the closed time loop. Future Michael travelled back in time to save younger Michael who grow up to became future Michael who travelled back in time. That is ok only if that was the only intention of the Angel. But no, the Angel wants to change the past to avoid some critical extinction event. If the Angel succeds in avoiding this event (of course the main point of the story) the Angel will not be lonely in 500 years and travel back in time. The closed time loop is broken. Michael will follow a different path and will never return in time. Even if she is understand all the facts and now will become a different Red Angel in her future (a good future) that have to go back in time in order to close the time loop, there could not be an opponent being in the case.

Now if we consider the other possibility of time travel, a branching timeline (like used in the Kelvin storyline) it does not work too. Future Michael travelled back in time, saving young Michael. From this point a branching occur in the timeline, original Red Angel is one, save Michel is another. Nothing explains how Michael is alive in the first timeline to go back in time to save herself. Because she only lived in the second timeline. Plus, even if something explains that a) there is still a timeline where all organic lifeforms are fucked; b) the Red Angel could travel back in time only once, to save young Michael. In the story the Angel appears in several time points. She could not do that with two branching timelines. Her others time travels would happen in the original timeline not on the second Michael is saved timeline (the Angel cannot cross timelines).

But time travel stories rarelly work, they cannot survive a little more of critical thought, so I guess that is ok for Discovery.
 

MCN

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,289
United Kingdom
Yeah, same for me. Nothing but positive reactions from people I know, and who aren’t even big Star Trek fans.
One of my friends at work has never been a fan of Star Trek (she always considered it to be something nerdy guys watch), but I found to my delight and astonishment that she watches Discovery and The Orville, and she loves them both. Now we talk about every episode after they air.
 

Kschreck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,757
Pennsylvania
Tonight’s episode is called,
Project Daedalus. We know it involves the Section 31 home base. Google search Daedalus reveals a winged angel like figure. My guess is that the Red Angel is technology developed by Section 31. Is the Red Angel Philippa Georgiou? Maybe Section 31 from the future is trying to save the galaxy? Tying into the Section 31 show...

Thoughts?
 

Window

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
Tonight’s episode is called,
Project Daedalus. We know it involves the Section 31 home base. Google search Daedalus reveals a winged angel like figure. My guess is that the Red Angel is technology developed by Section 31. Is the Red Angel Philippa Georgiou? Maybe Section 31 from the future is trying to save the galaxy? Tying into the Section 31 show...

Thoughts?
It's the AI from Deus Ex.
 

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,200
Tonight’s episode is called,
Project Daedalus. We know it involves the Section 31 home base. Google search Daedalus reveals a winged angel like figure. My guess is that the Red Angel is technology developed by Section 31. Is the Red Angel Philippa Georgiou? Maybe Section 31 from the future is trying to save the galaxy? Tying into the Section 31 show...

Thoughts?
Daedalus is the father of Icarus, and creator of the labyrinth, who with their song fled their imprisonment by the creation of some wings made of feathers and wax. Icarus flies too close to the sun, inventing an easy metaphor for hubris.

Combine that with the potential allusion to Deus Ex, and I'm guessing it's related to
Control - or some new AI S31 is making - turning out to be a bit of a dick. Hence the mines and bodies in the preview.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,004
What if Discovery has to go to the future to save the timeline and they get stuck there....(without Pike and Spock of course). Micheal and Disco go missing which explains the spore drive and Spock not bringing up Micheal again.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,004
Why do people keep complaining about this? It is entirely in line with Spock's established character that he wouldn't mention her unless directly necessary to a situation.
Oh I know and I'm fine with it (And the spore drive) I'm just saying for the people looking for an excuse.

Like these people lol

 
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sooperkool

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,159
Tonight’s episode is called,
Project Daedalus. We know it involves the Section 31 home base. Google search Daedalus reveals a winged angel like figure. My guess is that the Red Angel is technology developed by Section 31. Is the Red Angel Philippa Georgiou? Maybe Section 31 from the future is trying to save the galaxy? Tying into the Section 31 show...

Thoughts?
I'm shocked that Daedelus required a Google search that's elementary school Greek mythology.
 

DangerMouse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,235
Can't wait to watch. No other live shows on tonight so I'll be watching right away.

That response of "Cool" to that tweet is hilariously awesome.

I wish the Red Angel was Detmer, i thought she'd have a louder voice by now...especially with her and Michael's history. Even Owu has more meat to her character.
I still hope she gets a focus ep, she deserves one, where she gets to go off the bridge and we learn a bit more about her, especially since she also came from the same ship as Michael and Saru, but I've still enjoyed her kind of being the mood maker on the bridge this season (and toward the end of last). You can always tell how they're doing by her reactions and mood, heh.
I also love how you can just see the progression through her of how much they've grown to love Pike as he keeps winning her over with his decisions and way of captaining.
 

DangerMouse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,235
That reminds me, I enjoyed the observation that maybe Pike's been pushing himself, perhaps even a little too hard, to be heroic perhaps to make up for missing the war.

I think it was Tyler who made the comment in the ep where they took the shuttle together? They've had some surprisingly very fun exchanges a few eps in a row now. As have Pike and Saru.
 

DangerMouse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,235
That opening extended shot of the ship warping in and then getting a good long look at it was really cool. Thank you Frakes, heh.

Damn, the memories scene and moment with Tilly was good and then that bridge scene was soooo good. Both with Detmer and with Pike and the admiral.

Spock: "Clearly"
LMAO

I'm quite enjoying the Michael/Spock dynamic.
Yeah!
 
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Effect

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,106
Hi I'm Star Trek Discovery. For this episode I'm going take your emotions and feelings, drop them on the floor and stomp on them until I get tired. Then I'm going to sit down to rest and do it again! Enjoy!

Wow. I don't know if it's because I was really tired today and my defenses were just down but that was a roller coaster. More so then usual.

Loving the banter between Michael and Spock and both have a decent read on each other and are just as stubborn I think. Talk about building up just to gut punch you. I'm glad though they went through with this and didn't hold back. This is Discovery and that's to be expected but always glad to be reminded that this show will do that.
 
Jan 29, 2018
1,913
I don't see how Michael is not the red angel at this point, I mean especially with that last interaction Michael had with you know who at the end of this one, they are REALLY hinting it.
Had the same thought. Ugh.

Other than that it was an excellent episode. Finally got some backstory with Airiam, but then... And pretty much everyone on the bridge felt like they had plenty to do.

But wife and I were getting really annoyed when Michael wasn't bothering to check on Nhan.
 

Terminus

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,874
Detmer is easily the worst performance of the bridge crew and Ariam was one of the best. Why couldn’t we lose the OTHER cyborg?
 

Effect

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,106
A lot was happening very quickly and Michael was almost
killed herself and had to directly deal with Airiam still even though she was locked behind the door. Michael did have to compose herself after getting beat on by a damn cyborg. They really sold those blows. Damn. Having her glance over looking at Nhan could have been included, for all we know she did and it was cut because it messed with the pacing or she just assumed she had been taken out at the time. A minor issue that allowed for the surprise by Nhan at the end. I think you kinda lose that if you show her sooner.
 

golem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,580
Detmer is easily the worst performance of the bridge crew and Ariam was one of the best. Why couldn’t we lose the OTHER cyborg?
To be fair it seems that Detmer's scripted scenes comprise solely of 'She gives a sly smile' for entire episodes.

Spock blasted Michael with disruptors on disintegrate, damn

The last scene was really well done

I thought she was somewhat justified in ignoring Nhan for the moment, due to the killer robot situation

Still hoping the RA isnt Burnham
 

DrForester

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,099
Another great episode.


But why couldn't they just beam Airiam out? Was there a line of dialogue I missed about that?

There's still a big piece of the puzzle missing there though. How did Section 31's AI in the future capture, reporgram and send back Discovery's probe, which then took over Airiam?
 

Effect

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,106
Another great episode.


But why couldn't they just beam Airiam out? Was there a line of dialogue I missed about that?

There's still a big piece of the puzzle missing there though. How did Section 31's AI in the future capture, reporgram and send back Discovery's probe, which then took over Airiam?
yeah there is still a lot that needs to be explained and covered. We have 5 episodes left and that's assuming they even explain everything this season. They don't actually have to. We could ride part of this into season 3. Or have some Short Treks explain something at a later date.
 

mightynine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,487
Another great episode.


But why couldn't they just beam Airiam out? Was there a line of dialogue I missed about that?

There's still a big piece of the puzzle missing there though. How did Section 31's AI in the future capture, reporgram and send back Discovery's probe, which then took over Airiam?
She did mention that

she would destroy Discovery while under control of...uh, Control.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,004
First Disco is such a gorgeous show to watch, that opening scene was ridiculous.

But damn...that ending, geez and they did such a great job of building up her character in a single episode. I loved all the interactions, even Stamets and Spock was fun. I guess it's clear now that the AI takes over in 500 years, still gotta see who the red angel is, but judging from whatever they were doing in the preview, Micheal seems like the clear favorite.

My guess for why they couldn't transport her back was because they thought she might take control of Discovery, which would be worse.
 

DangerMouse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,235
Spock and Stamets is a pretty great new combination.
They've done a great job giving Spock a big "presence", his banter and back and forth with Michael were great.

Damn, those Airiam/crew feels. That scene was extremely well done. As was that fight between her and Michael, I loved that fight. They did a surprisingly good job expanding on her in limited time.

I loved how much time we spent bouncing between the bridge crew this week working through an extended problem together on the bridge. Been waiting for that.

yeah there is still a lot that needs to be explained and covered. We have 5 episodes left and that's assuming they even explain everything this season. They don't actually have to. We could ride part of this into season 3. Or have some Short Treks explain something at a later date.
I'd be cool with that. I don't want Pike to leave yet lmao.

Hi I'm Star Trek Discovery. For this episode I'm going take your emotions and feelings, drop them on the floor and stomp on them until I get tired. Then I'm going to sit down to rest and do it again! Enjoy!

Wow. I don't know if it's because I was really tired today and my defenses were just down but that was a roller coaster. More so then usual.

Loving the banter between Michael and Spock and both have a decent read on each other and are just as stubborn I think. Talk about building up just to gut punch you. I'm glad though they went through with this and didn't hold back. This is Discovery and that's to be expected but always glad to be reminded that this show will do that.
Yeah.
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,758
Back to the theories discussion.

Yes, that is an example of a "closed loop" time paradox. It works in that exemple, but not here.

In the Doctor Who exemple, someone loves Beethoven and travel back in time to find him, could not find him and become Beethoven himself, "fulfiling" the role. It is a classic case of time travel messing with cause and action, where you cannot tell which came first. But nothing in the story, no action of the time travel prevents him to be born later in time, love Beethoven and wanted to go back in time. So the circle closes.

That is not happening if Michael is the Red Angel. Let´s see: it seems that the Red Angel is a time traveller from 500 years in the future, seems to be lonely and trying to prevent something bad. We can deduct she is the survival of something really bad, possible the only survival. So she saved Michael, who seems to be crucial in preventing the bad event. But there is also another being, who attacked the Discovery pod in the time disturbance and currently seems to be possing Airiam (so there is an oppositing force to Red Angel coming from the future, which seems to be trying to guarantee that those events happen).

If the Red Angel is Michael, her saving can be explained by the closed time loop. Future Michael travelled back in time to save younger Michael who grow up to became future Michael who travelled back in time. That is ok only if that was the only intention of the Angel. But no, the Angel wants to change the past to avoid some critical extinction event. If the Angel succeds in avoiding this event (of course the main point of the story) the Angel will not be lonely in 500 years and travel back in time. The closed time loop is broken. Michael will follow a different path and will never return in time. Even if she is understand all the facts and now will become a different Red Angel in her future (a good future) that have to go back in time in order to close the time loop, there could not be an opponent being in the case.

Now if we consider the other possibility of time travel, a branching timeline (like used in the Kelvin storyline) it does not work too. Future Michael travelled back in time, saving young Michael. From this point a branching occur in the timeline, original Red Angel is one, save Michel is another. Nothing explains how Michael is alive in the first timeline to go back in time to save herself. Because she only lived in the second timeline. Plus, even if something explains that a) there is still a timeline where all organic lifeforms are fucked; b) the Red Angel could travel back in time only once, to save young Michael. In the story the Angel appears in several time points. She could not do that with two branching timelines. Her others time travels would happen in the original timeline not on the second Michael is saved timeline (the Angel cannot cross timelines).

But time travel stories rarelly work, they cannot survive a little more of critical thought, so I guess that is ok for Discovery.
Lonely doesn't necessarily mean she is the only one alive in the future after life erased, it can be as simple as some who has lost the love of their life and has a brother she lives but wants nothing to do with her. Micheal.

Also the rest doesn't prevent a bootstrap paradox, it's just more details than the Dr Who example.
 

emag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,373
Episode 9 thoughts

Liked:
Interaction between Spock and Stemmis/Michael
More character-building for the minor bridge crew members
although this was a clear indication of Ariam’s upcoming death or integration with control

Loathed:
Fight choreography
Nobody caring about Nhan
Michael being the center of the universe Re: Control/Red Angel
 

SRG01

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,452
My speculation:

Mirror Georgiou is the Red Angel because she somehow still cares for Michael
 

golem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,580
Amazon Prime didnt have the promo for next week attached after the silent credits.. here it is if anyone else missed it

 

aceface

Member
Oct 25, 2017
917
Crazy obscure reference to the security lady being a Barzan. They appeared as a minor character in exactly one TNG ep (the Barzan wormhole one where the Ferengi got stranded)