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Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 |OT| Exploration is logical

Oct 25, 2017
1,685
I'm beginning to dislike the Tilly character. They continue to have her do things that are ncomprehensible, out of olace would never be done by anyone in a military modeled organization ever. No ensign ever would address an admiral or captain directly, especially with rambling and non-sequiturs. Ye they continue to have her do this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,715
Damn, Sonequa Martin-Green had some real guttural groans in that fight with Ariam that sounded too real haha
I felt those punches with my ears

Meanwhile, as Spock was laying the smackdown on Michael after their chess match:


Peck is kicking ass as Spock. What I think makes this version feel more like Nimoy than Quinto's did (even in spite of his more pronounced emotions) is that he feels like he's choosing to be this way and is comfortable with that personal decision, with an aura of comfortable smugness about that choice. On the other hand, Quinto's Spock seemed oblivious, like his demeanor was something that he had no control over which left him socially handicapped. Peck Spock got that BDE.

I appreciated the elaboration on Ariam in this episode.

Sad ending.

I really really dont want Burnham to be the red angel but...
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,324
I'm beginning to dislike the Tilly character. They continue to have her do things that are ncomprehensible, out of olace would never be done by anyone in a military modeled organization ever.
Yeah i feel like the writers are treading really close to Homerizing her.. where her quirks are emphasized too much and end up defining her character. I hope they dial it back next season. Being smart shouldn't be the only qualifier for the Command Training Program.

Same, but man, that episode preview and the next week’s title sure lays it on thick that’s who it’s gonna be somehow.
Which somewhat feels like a misdirect. But we'll see i suppose

It's too bad they knocked off Airiam just as she got some depth. The scenes with the crew were really well done. Probably should have seen her demise coming a mile away, but didn't really. I am however glad that Tilly's hail mary effort to save her didn't work out. In most other shows it would have and they'd all be a happy family again the next week.
 
Oct 25, 2017
138
Did they really expect me to care about a character dying who didn't have any character up until 40 minutes ago? Why not have the memory scene earlier in the season? Maybe show them playing that game throughout the season? Why couldn't they beam her out? Why couldn't they beam a security force over to help subdue her? This show has no respect for the viewer. Like, I'm all for making things up as you go, especially in Star Trek, but come on... at least try. Things were finally starting to look up after last week, and now we get whatever the hell this was.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,685
Did they really expect me to care about a character dying who didn't have any character up until 40 minutes ago? Why not have the memory scene earlier in the season? Maybe show them playing that game throughout the season? Why couldn't they beam her out? Why couldn't they beam a security force over to help subdue her? This show has no respect for the viewer. Like, I'm all for making things up as you go, especially in Star Trek, but come on... at least try. Things were finally starting to look up after last week, and now we get whatever the hell this was.
Its like your trying so hard to find flaws that you arent paying attention. It was stated earlier in the episode that the Section 31 headquarters was a former prison as such all the signals were cut off by Control and that it had ridiculous shielding in place.
 
Oct 25, 2017
640
Concerning Ariam
I Think she might not be gone. I can’t take credit for this since I read it elsewhere, but maybe her first name is Zora?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,324
Why couldn't they beam her out? Why couldn't they beam a security force over to help subdue her?
Beam her where? To the brig? Where Burnham showed in the pilot she could easily access the computer even there? The rogue ai had already compromised Discovery's system by disabling the spore drive. Who knows how much access it actually had.

Also the whole betrayal->getting spaced takes place over a few minutes and the security chief is already down. Getting a team together would take a while longer, this is Starfleet we're talking about after all.
 
Dec 15, 2017
1,626
Australia
Oustanding episode written by S3 Showrunner Michelle Paradise. That bodes well for the show's future. They did such a good job with Airiam that her death really hit hard. Nice character development for Spock. Also good to see Detmer and Nhan get more dialogue.
 
Dec 15, 2017
1,626
Australia
I don't see how Michael is not the red angel at this point, I mean especially with that last interaction Michael had with you know who at the end of this one, they are REALLY hinting it.
I don't see how Michael would get the time travel tech to begin with unless someone from the future delivers it to herself in the present or someone from the future with time travel tech takes her to the future.

I'm beginning to dislike the Tilly character. They continue to have her do things that are ncomprehensible, out of olace would never be done by anyone in a military modeled organization ever. No ensign ever would address an admiral or captain directly, especially with rambling and non-sequiturs. Ye they continue to have her do this.
I find it funny that the officers just no-sell Tilly for 10 seconds then get her to focus while the bridge crew smile because they know what she's like.
 
Oct 27, 2017
583
Remember how Leland was somehow involved in Burnham's Parent's Death, an event which was brought up here in this episode again by Spock?

Tyler in the recap says that Control is "probably rightfully alarmed by a time-traveling being pursuing its own agenda".
What if Control in the future sent a message back in time, and S31 followed it which unfortunately lead to the Klingon attack? They only know that the orders came from a future iteration of S31 and was nonspecific regarding Burnham. This changes the timeline so that Burnham eventually gets eaten by a monster on Vulcan, until it was changed again by the Red Angel via Spock.


I still think Pike/Vina are the Red Angel. The first time we see the Red Angel in 2x01... we see it transform into Pike.
Jacob somehow 'knows' he'll see Pike again in New Eden.
Pike serves with Spock for 11 years and probably knows him well enough to trust him with the task.

Pike/Vina are the only ones who can feasibly survive long enough to the 28th Century via Talos Technology. And if this is the last we see Pike, it would put a heroic end to his story rather than 'live happily ever after in an illusory world.'
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,260
Pennsylvania
Man oh man what an episode. F***! That was intense edge of your seat craziness! One of the best episodes yet for sure. Feels like I am watching a movie every week and the movies are getting better and better. This show is insanely good!
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,685
You know the one thing about Spock that is special? Michael. She's his sister and as was stated, "everything is because of her". She's got to find Skynet Project Daedalus and destroy it.
 

MCN

Banned
Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,289
United Kingdom
Concerning Ariam
I Think she might not be gone. I can’t take credit for this since I read it elsewhere, but maybe her first name is Zora?
I agree with that spoiler (not necessarily the name bit)

I think the torpedo she is "buried" in gets picked up by an advanced species. Over 500 years, she is built upon and turned into the red angel, then travels back in time to prevent the events she has knowledge of (having been connected to Control)
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,721
Aaaaw Ariam design was cool

Admiral on benching Pike. Ouch 😆

They did the anime thing. Showing all characters shock look.
Discovery does have a lot of reaction shots in bridge scenes.

At least they didn't have each character verbally express their surprise in sequential one liners.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,475
While it was a good episode that gave Ariam the characterization she needed, I really wish we'd seen this side of her earlier.

It's crazy we didn't even know if she was human in any way or a complete robot until this episode.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,365
Few things fell flat this episode.

- Didn't care about a character with no development until like 30 minutes earlier dying.
- Tilly's lack of professionalism being let slide.
- So many ways that they could have saved Ariam. But no, let's blast her out into space and kill her. Wtf are transporters.
- Micheal is the centre of the universe.

A reminder in Greek mythology Daedalus crafted wings. It's the Angel suit.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,698
Loved this episode, but gutted at the same time.

However, I can understand how keeping Ariam around would be logistically hard from a production point of view in a show like this.

Puhleeeease DON'T BE BURNHAM!!

Were we supposed to know what Control was prior to this? It never registered with me when people said it that they were referring to an AI. I don't think Georgiou mentioned it by name when she was doing her "I told the AI what to do in my universe" a few episodes back. It just never registered with me that they were talking about an AI rather then like a group of high ranking officers at Starfleet HQ.
 

MCN

Banned
Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,289
United Kingdom
- So many ways that they could have saved Ariam. But no, let's blast her out into space and kill her. Wtf are transporters.
They don't work on penal colonies, unless specifically allowed to (already established as early as season 1 of TOS). Control allowed them in because it wanted Airiam there, then didn't want them out because it wanted Airiam there.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,365
They don't work on penal colonies, unless specifically allowed to (already established as early as season 1 of TOS). Control allowed them in because it wanted Airiam there, then didn't want them out because it wanted Airiam there.
Sorry but this is entirely in your head.

There is nothing in this episode that suggests there is any problem beaming back and forth to this station. In the mission briefing they just say they'll beam over with no mention of any problems or security issues doing it. All the way to the airlock scene there is no mention of problems, then when the airlock scene happens nobody even suggests beaming her out, they just all "Well she said open the airlock so do it, that's an order".

In fact, when they first beam over Pike even says "Standing by to beam you out".

The entire thing was dumb.
 

MCN

Banned
Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,289
United Kingdom
Sorry but this is entirely in your head.

There is nothing in this episode that suggests there is any problem beaming back and forth to this station. In the mission briefing they just say they'll beam over with no mention of any problems or security issues doing it. All the way to the airlock scene there is no mention of problems, then when the airlock scene happens nobody even suggests beaming her out, they just all "Well she said open the airlock so do it, that's an order".

In fact, when they first beam over Pike even says "Standing by to beam you out".

The entire thing was dumb.
Ah, you're one of those who requires everything to be spelt out in expository dialogue. Of course Pike said that, because Control and Airiam hadn't "turned" at that point and enabled the transport block.
 
Apr 22, 2018
534
Tampa, Fl
I'm kind of sad that Control is an AI. With the statement that Control was worried about a time traveler pushing its own agenda. I almost wondered if Control was Future Guy and we were seeing the a temporal cold war plot done properly and competently.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,475
You know, it's weird. I used to think I was the nitpicking asshole who picked apart plotholes and so on. Like, cinema sins is still trash, but I don't agree when some people say that it means that having internal consistency shouldn't matter. And maybe it's because people bickering over how the force works billion times has softened me up on this stuff, but I don't see the teleport thing as a problem even without necessarily being given a reason.

I mean, is your viewing experience really THAT hurt by them not taking a split second to say something like "Our teleport beam has been password encoded, it'll take a while to hack, Ariam must have made it so we couldn't teleport people back without her wanting us to"

Like, okay even if I admit that maybe they should have added that in just so they covered every possible base with how this plays out, that isn't the point of hte scene, it's merely the set up. I find it hard to believe that anyone who wasn't affected by her death now would otherwise been to tears by the 'well executed' set up of them communicating that the teleport beams were not an option.

We're watching a melodrama play out. The point of that scene wasn't a hard logic puzzle, it was to punch you in the feels. And I know that if the set up is bad, then scenes might not work for you, I get that, but this just feels really frivolous to say that one line of expository dialogue that confirmed the teleport wasn't working would have fixed it for anyone.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,365
I recommend you watch TOS: Dagger Of The Mind. It is firmly established that penal colonies have transport blocks.
This isn't a penal colony anymore, nothing blocks them transporting over, nothing in the episode says there is ever any problem with the transporters. They even say it potentially only blocks lifesign readings.

You are saying things the episode has proved not true.

Dagger of the Mind shows them beaming to and from a penal colony once shields are lowered, so it's just basic "Cannot beam through shields" rule. Where in this episode were the station's shields ever mentioned? Oh right, never.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,365
You know, it's weird. I used to think I was the nitpicking asshole who picked apart plotholes and so on. Like, cinema sins is still trash, but I don't agree when some people say that it means that having internal consistency shouldn't matter. And maybe it's because people bickering over how the force works billion times has softened me up on this stuff, but I don't see the teleport thing as a problem even without necessarily being given a reason.

I mean, is your viewing experience really THAT hurt by them not taking a split second to say something like "Our teleport beam has been password encoded, it'll take a while to hack, Ariam must have made it so we couldn't teleport people back without her wanting us to"

Like, okay even if I admit that maybe they should have added that in just so they covered every possible base with how this plays out, that isn't the point of hte scene, it's merely the set up. I find it hard to believe that anyone who wasn't affected by her death now would otherwise been to tears by the 'well executed' set up of them communicating that the teleport beams were not an option.

We're watching a melodrama play out. The point of that scene wasn't a hard logic puzzle, it was to punch you in the feels. And I know that if the set up is bad, then scenes might not work for you, I get that, but this just feels really frivolous to say that one line of expository dialogue that confirmed the teleport wasn't working would have fixed it for anyone.
The scene is already weak by it being a nobody character they are offing. I think there have been redshirts with more development. So they can at least make the death good instead of dumb. The entire scene was two things for me, first was why Micheal doesn't go check on the Barzan girl who got her breather ripped out (clearly done for the surprise 'she hit the eject' moment, though still dumb that Micheal didn't check). The second was just "Why they not just beaming her out". It defuses all tension from the scene because just waiting for that to happen. Then it doesn't and I think 'well that was dumb'. Because it was.

Yeah, a single line of dialogue can completely change the tension and so the quality of a scene. A dramatic death was instead a dumb death. Of course that makes a difference.
 
Apr 22, 2018
534
Tampa, Fl
This isn't a penal colony anymore, nothing blocks them transporting over, nothing in the episode says there is ever any problem with the transporters. They even say it potentially only blocks lifesign readings.

You are saying things the episode has proved not true.

Dagger of the Mind shows them beaming to and from a penal colony once shields are lowered, so it's just basic "Cannot beam through shields" rule. Where in this episode were the station's shields ever mentioned? Oh right, never.
How can you beam anyone when you can't read there life signs?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,103
I just assumed they didn't want to beam her over because she was compromised, why risk the chance she takes over disco, she had already sabotaged the spore drive, it's not illogical to think she could have taken control and killed anyone, as far as Micheal not checking in on the other officer, she just escaped with her life and still had to deal with Ariam, I don't see the issue
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,475
The scene is already weak by it being a nobody character they are offing. I think there have been redshirts with more development. So they can at least make the death good instead of dumb. The entire scene was two things for me, first was why Micheal doesn't go check on the Barzan girl who got her breather ripped out (clearly done for the surprise 'she hit the eject' moment, though still dumb that Micheal didn't check). The second was just "Why they not just beaming her out". It defuses all tension from the scene because just waiting for that to happen. Then it doesn't and I think 'well that was dumb'. Because it was.

Yeah, a single line of dialogue can completely change the tension and so the quality of a scene. A dramatic death was instead a dumb death. Of course that makes a difference.
No, you'd have either found some other logic problem or else simply said, "I don't care about this character" anyway. That's not an accusation, just to be clear. I'm just saying that in my experience the only kind of people who pick apart scenes like this, especially as their watching it, are doing so because they aren't engaged enough to the action happening right then and there. I'm not saying you should have been emotionally invested or anything...watching any show is each persons individual experience and if it doesn't jive for them, that's not my problem.

I'm just saying them saying "Teleport beam is down" wouldn't have solved anything. It would have just meant you couldn't find a shorthand explanation for your apathy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
448
I'm unusually bothered by the cuts to the incidental crew whenever something happens or is said on the bridge. Like we're a season and a half into trek and we don't really know anything about most of them
 
Oct 27, 2017
648
Awesome episode. Control being the big bad I saw coming from a mile away though.

I don't think Michael is the red angel, Spock would probably have sensed it during the mindmeld.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,365
How can you beam anyone when you can't read there life signs?
They do it by comm badge often in TNG/DS9. Pike says they can so it doesn't matter how really. Besides the 'possibly' masking lifesigns line was just to hide that they all really dead.

I just assumed they didn't want to beam her over because she was compromised, why risk the chance she takes over disco, she had already sabotaged the spore drive, it's not illogical to think she could have taken control and killed anyone, as far as Micheal not checking in on the other officer, she just escaped with her life and still had to deal with Ariam, I don't see the issue
Put her in the brig, which given all the cybernetics and stuff in that time period I assume is designed to not have a 'hack me' panel on it, and instead 3 thick walls with no circuitry. But that's just my thoughts on a brig. (I'd also not have one wall be a forcefield that could drop in power but whatever).

Or fire and escape pod, beam her to it and tractor it.

There plenty of things can do.
 
Aug 22, 2018
653
Why didn't Control beam Spock out when Discovery's shields were down?

Why didn't Discovery fire phasers at those massive mines?

Why didn't they beam more people over to assault a space station?

Why didn't they beam Aeriam out once she was clear of the station?

The show looks great, but man is the writing sloppy. Gaps like these completely undercut a poignant death scene when it seems to be a result of stupidity instead of necessity.
 
Jan 29, 2018
1,241
Why didn't Control beam Aeriam or Spock out when Discovery's shields were down?

Why didn't Discovery fire phasers at those massive mines?

Why didn't they beam more people over to assault a space station?

Why didn't they beam Aeriam out once she was clear of the station?

The show looks great, but man is the writing sloppy. Gaps like these completely undercut a poignant death scene when it seems to be a result of stupidity instead of necessity.
Have we ever seen Discovery fire phasers? They shot a torpedo when they blew up that space station last year, but that's all I can think of.

I don't know why it didn't occur to me that they weren't shooting the mines. Good question.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,715
I love that the reason why Pike/Enterprise got left out of the klingon conflict is basically that he is too pure for war haha
Constantly making ”empathic” (looking hurt etc) faces when others are talking
I mean that pretty much describes her entire character. Her face only has two settings: Concerned, and very concerned.