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Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 |OT| Exploration is logical

deimosmasque

deimosmasque

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If that were true then they would already be immune to phasers. Instead they were always shown in previous Encounters to analyse an attack and counterman it.

Then Torres suddenly says they can only learn through assimilation an Voyager can suddenly take on the Borg when the Enterprise couldn't.
 
StallionDan

StallionDan

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Oct 25, 2017
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deimosmasque said:
If that were true then they would already be immune to phasers. Instead they were always shown in previous Encounters to analyse an attack and counterman it.

Then Torres suddenly says they can only learn through assimilation an Voyager can suddenly take on the Borg when the Enterprise couldn't.
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They can't be immune until they are hit with a phaser enough times to get its frequency, at which point they can nullify it. Again, they are not learning a new ability they are only obtaining a frequency reading. The entire adaption process is previously assimilated knowledge just being put to use.

Also Voyager doesn't fight the Borg in that episode. I think the first time they actually do that isn't for an entire other series until 5x2 'Drone' with the 29th century Borg. After that it's I think 'Dark Frontier' which is 5x15 or something and they only really engage with a Borg Probe. They attack a heavily damaged sphere also but the Borg Queen basically lets them go in exchange for Seven.
 
deimosmasque

deimosmasque

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StallionDan said:
They can't be immune until they are hit with a phaser enough times to get its frequency, at which point they can nullify it. Again, they are not learning a new ability they are only obtaining a frequency reading. The entire adaption process is previously assimilated knowledge just being put to use.

Also Voyager doesn't fight the Borg in that episode. I think the first time they actually do that isn't for an entire other series until 5x2 'Drone' with the 29th century Borg. After that it's I think 'Dark Frontier' which is 5x15 or something and they only really engage with a Borg Probe. They attack a heavily damaged sphere also but the Borg Queen basically lets them go in exchange for Seven.
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Maybe I'm misremebering but didnt they once fight a Tactical Cube and survive?
 
StallionDan

StallionDan

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deimosmasque said:
Maybe I'm misremebering but didnt they once fight a Tactical Cube and survive?
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Unimatrix Zero part 1, the finale of season 6. And yes they probably should have been destroyed, but at least you can argue they had 3 years worth of input from Seven as well as previous experience with the Borg.

It's actually only the 2nd time Voyager fight the Borg unassisted, or against a massively damaged ship, or the Probe from Dark Frontier The 1st time is when they find Icheb's parents in 6x19, they escape by blowing up a ship inside the Sphere.

Then we get Endgame where they have future tech.

Honestly, Voyager's ability to fight the Borg is overblown, aside from Unimatrix Zero and that tactical cube all their encounters are reasonable reasons for surviving.
 
Himynameischris

Himynameischris

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Oct 25, 2017
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I was watching some TOS and they just had an episode with something far more canon breaking than anything Disco has done, The episode By Any Other Name had them leave the galaxy to Andromeda, and all the aliens did was rework the warp engines of the Enterprise. Now usually they do away with the aliens which would prevent them from using that technology but by the end of the episode, Kirk convinces them to stay in our galaxy, work with Star Fleet to send a probe to Andromeda to alert the alien race that they found a new home (Andromeda is about to become inhabitable btw), so they should have this new warp ability to traverse our galaxy and Voyager should have been home in an afternoon. But people will pile on Disco for 'reasons'.

Stouffers said:
The expressions feel so forced, and weirdly saccharine.
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I mean they are just standing there but ok.
 
Window

Window

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Oct 27, 2017
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Bad writing in the past doesn't excuse bad writing today. I don't know why people keep bringing up old Trek shows every single time someone criticises Discovery. There's plenty of bad material in old shows too. I wouldn't care to watch every single episodes of those shows. At the same time however, outside of aesthetic and action I still definitely prefer them. Their highs are higher and more numerous than Discovery's so far but that's maybe not a fair comparison as Discovery is still in its second season (and has had good episodes too). I don't think comparisons to ToS make much sense anyway as expectations and form of TV story telling have changed drastically since the 60s.
 

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Himynameischris said:
I was watching some TOS and they just had an episode with something far more canon breaking than anything Disco has done, The episode By Any Other Name had them leave the galaxy to Andromeda, and all the aliens did was rework the warp engines of the Enterprise. Now usually they do away with the aliens which would prevent them from using that technology but by the end of the episode, Kirk convinces them to stay in our galaxy, work with Star Fleet to send a probe to Andromeda to alert the alien race that they found a new home (Andromeda is about to become inhabitable btw), so they should have this new warp ability to traverse our galaxy and Voyager should have been home in an afternoon. But people will pile on Disco for 'reasons'.


I mean they are just standing there but ok.
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The Andromedan aliens' tech (Warp 11) is stated to require 300 years to reach their home. That's about as fast as TNG Warp speeds. Maybe help from the Andromedans is how Starfleet engineers eventually hit that speed.

In any case, the Disco "equivalent" would be having faster-than-warp tech used across the first season and a half but forgetting it exists as soon as enemy ships appear, although it had been used earlier in the very same episode and several times in similar situations. And Disco wouldn't even have a coherent core story for the single episode.
 
tsmoreau

tsmoreau

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Oct 27, 2017
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The era of Luigi said:
Personal opinions aren't facts



Have you watched Star Trek before? I do not think you've ever seen it. You really should watch the series again. Deus ex machina, things not working just because scripts wanted, hell, I would love an explanation about why Voyager been able to defeat a species that the Borg wasn't able, is different from what we get on Discovery.
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It's about how, not what.

The number of people who can claim that the tone and thematic approach of Disco are the same as classic trek is mind-boggling.

Yes, silly shit happens in Star Trek all the time, but its about conceptual depth, not just conceptual appearance.

It's not just about droppping hot soft-sci references and never exploring their conceptual underpinnings or how they affect characters.

Instead we get "fast evolution into a predator" and "mothers and daughters neural patterns blah blah" and "the code is rewriting itself"

The writing is not classic trek. At. All.

Sheesh.
 
deimosmasque

deimosmasque

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StallionDan said:
Unimatrix Zero part 1, the finale of season 6. And yes they probably should have been destroyed, but at least you can argue they had 3 years worth of input from Seven as well as previous experience with the Borg.

It's actually only the 2nd time Voyager fight the Borg unassisted, or against a massively damaged ship, or the Probe from Dark Frontier The 1st time is when they find Icheb's parents in 6x19, they escape by blowing up a ship inside the Sphere.

Then we get Endgame where they have future tech.

Honestly, Voyager's ability to fight the Borg is overblown, aside from Unimatrix Zero and that tactical cube all their encounters are reasonable reasons for surviving.
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Thank you. I'll admit it's been a while since I watched Voyager except for an episode here or there so it wasn't fresh.

I still disagree with the idea that the Borg only learn through assimilation though. I thought it was a silly idea to be honest.
 
Himynameischris

Himynameischris

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emag said:
The Andromedan aliens' tech (Warp 11) is stated to require 300 years to reach their home. That's about as fast as TNG Warp speeds. Maybe help from the Andromedans is how Starfleet engineers eventually hit that speed.

In any case, the Disco "equivalent" would be having faster-than-warp tech used across the first season and a half but forgetting it exists as soon as enemy ships appear, although it had been used earlier in the very same episode and several times in similar situations. And Disco wouldn't even have a coherent core story for the single episode.
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That doesn't make sense though because Voyager would take about 75 years to cross 70,000 light years (at max speed) and so if it would take them 300 years going voyagers speed, you're only adding about 200~ thousand light years to Andromeda, but it is actually 2.537 million light years away....so they'd have to be going much faster to reach Andromeda in 300 years.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about canon in Disco or in general, just something funny I noticed considering how nit picky some get around here regarding the spore drive and other things in Disco.
 
Joeytj

Joeytj

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Oct 30, 2017
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tsmoreau said:
It's about how, not what.

The number of people who can claim that the tone and thematic approach of Disco are the same as classic trek is mind-boggling.

Yes, silly shit happens in Star Trek all the time, but its about conceptual depth, not just conceptual appearance.

It's not just about droppping hot soft-sci references and never exploring their conceptual underpinnings or how they affect characters.

Instead we get "fast evolution into a predator" and "mothers and daughters neural patterns blah blah" and "the code is rewriting itself"

The writing is not classic trek. At. All.

Sheesh.
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Disco is different from other Treks, yes. In many ways.

But on the matter of the strength of its lore and use of science fact and not just fiction?

Nah. It's the same. There's more of it presented to us in less time because seasons are now just 13 or 14 episodes, so maybe that's why it feels like there more "crazy" stuff, but I'm not going to complain about super mushrooms connecting the universe when I saw as a kid how Beverly Crusher has sex with a ghost or a virus made the Enterprise horny to death. Twice.

And even tho a lot of the allegory is no longer presented through just the "mystery science of the day", it's still there in many forms. Especially this season, we've gotten a lot of great concepts presented to the audience every episode, even if, again, it's not in "The Typical Trek Way".
 
tsmoreau

tsmoreau

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Oct 27, 2017
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Joeytj said:
Disco is different from other Treks, yes. In many ways.

But on the matter of the strength of its lore and use of science fact and not just fiction?

Nah. It's the same. There's more of it presented to us in less time because seasons are now just 13 or 14 episodes, so maybe that's why it feels like there more "crazy" stuff, but I'm not going to complain about super mushrooms connecting the universe when I saw as a kid how Beverly Crusher has sex with a ghost or a virus made the Enterprise horny to death. Twice.

And even tho a lot of the allegory is no longer presented through just the "mystery science of the day", it's still there in many forms. Especially this season, we've gotten a lot of great concepts presented to the audience every episode, even if, again, it's not in "The Typical Trek Way".
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I ain't even complainin about space mushrooms.

Bring on the space mushrooms.

But don't treat your own concept with the allegorical depth and story logic of a children's fairytale.

It just makes it hard to appreciate the things the show does well when it feels like it's talking down to its audience all the time.
 
milamber182

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The longer a show lasts the harder it is to be creative while adhering to every single bit of established canon. See Doctor Who, which if you include audios and novels from different brands and the tele-movie set between Classic Who and Nu Who, has potentially several similar but different timelines. That's how I treat it. Some fans probably twist themselves into a ball of stress trying to tie it all together and forget to enjoy the show as it is now.
 

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BrokenFiction said:
Looks better with the beard.
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It won't look as bad in production. Remember those awful Quinto photoshopped to hell and back pics? Similar thing happened here if you look at Peck's face, there's a lot of unnatural makeup and colouring.

a4786121bee784921aa83ff74db94d51.jpg
 
Effect

Effect

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Oct 25, 2017
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Really nervous about this finale. Not sure what to expect but I do know what I don't want to see and that's anything approaching a reset button or undoing relationships to make some of the loud mouths happy. Seriously fuck them.
 

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Effect said:
Really nervous about this finale. Not sure what to expect but I do know what I don't want to see and that's anything approaching a reset button or undoing relationships to make some of the loud mouths happy. Seriously fuck them.
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I mean. If there's a reset, Prime Georgieu will be back, Ash Tyler/Voq won't exist, the Klingons still get their war, Pike gets his accident for nothing, Lorca still arrives in this universe (transporter in an ion storm).

It can't go that way without being a mess
 
Charlotte Lucas

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Oct 25, 2017
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Uhhhh, did I miss something? There is a recap at the beginning of today's episode with Tilly transporting some alien home and I don't remember this at all.
 

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They're really leaning hard on that TOS/TNG Enterprise leitmotif.

At the title sequence:

Nice call, those of you who predicted this usage of the time crystal.

If they can make another suit, why can't they make another hard drive to hold the sphere data (and either destroy it or send it to the future, per the original plan)? Also, they got the crew back from Enterprise pretty darn fast. Good thing the sphere data doesn't affect anything outside of [self-]destruction.
 
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Effect

Effect

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Oct 25, 2017
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I saw it as they started with the TOS Movie bridge and used that as a base. It looks great though!

Part 1 down and now for part 2. I'm feeling a bit better after how this episode turned out but we still have a whole lot of crazy to see next week! This was a very nice emotional episode and a good setup. Looking forward to watching it again next week and going right into the final episode of the season to see how it plays and if it feels any different without the break.

Also makes me wonder if they will just combine these two on the blu-ray.
 
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Himynameischris

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Oct 25, 2017
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Damn of course it ends there, another great episode and I really really hope it's not the last we'll see of Spock and Pike

So the idea that Disco
leaves to the future with it's skeleton crew and that's where Season 3 (and beyond?) takes place is kinda cool but since Spock is on board Discovery they'll either find their way back fairly quickly or Spock has to leave to Enterprise during the battle for some reason.
 
Captjohnboyd

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Okay as someone who's not well versed in Trek universe but watched TNG and all the movies as a kid; is this going to be a different universe? I know there was speculation during the first season but I just think it's odd that we would have never heard of spock having a sister. Or did we and I missed it?

Anyway loving the season. Got CBS specifically for it and it hasn't disappointed. A big step up from season one in my opinion
 
Himynameischris

Himynameischris

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Captjohnboyd said:
Okay as someone who's not well versed in Trek universe but watched TNG and all the movies as a kid; is this going to be a different universe? I know there was speculation during the first season but I just think it's odd that we would have never heard of spoke having a sister. Or did we and I missed it?

Anyway loving the season. Got CBS specifically for it and it hasn't disappointed. A big step up from season one in my opinion
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Eh Spock had a half brother he never spoke of again, They didn't really explore characters histories all that much in TOS/Movies so it's just one of those things that was never mentioned on screen. And Spock is the type to not bring something up unless asked or it's logically relevant to whatever is going on. So this takes place in the prime universe as all the other star treks.
 
Effect

Effect

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I really loved this exchange!

"I thought there were no bad ideas."
"That's a lie."
"That's a bad one."
 

QuigleyMcShine

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Jan 29, 2018
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Hey that was pretty good.

And that Enterprise looked amazing inside and out. Half expected them to shoehorn in a Scotty or Nurse Chapel cameo.

Weird that we've never seen the strategy of launching all the fucking shuttles as fighters before a battle in Star Trek before. Also weird that the Enterprise and Discovery have like a hundred shuttles between them. I remember reading that in TNG pre-production the new Enterprise was pitched as being like an aircraft carrier for a while, so it's cool to see that come up again.
 
Effect

Effect

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I think it was more then shuttles. They were also the survey pods from the first episode of this season along with some other things. Number One mentioned taking some experimental flyers onboard when the Enterprise was repaired. I guess that's what they were. Then who knows what else the Discovery had on board in storage.

It makes sense though. These ships are huge. They should have lots of support craft or support like crafts it could deploy in an emergency like this just to create more targets for enemies.
 
DangerMouse

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Elegant Weapon said:
When exactly do new episodes drop for this show? Do I have to wait until the afternoon/evening to watch the new episode?
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About 8:30PM EST Thursdays for me.

DrForester said:
Enterprise bridge set is gorgeous.
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This. Goddamn. I had to pause and just take it in for a moment during that first walkthrough and onto the bridge.
Very classic colors plus with some sharp white lighting like the new movies. And the modern screens and displays are mixed in so well.
Also the corridors are a great mix of classic and more modern. All the colors and lighting really pops.
They did an AMAZING job on the Enterprise.

emag said:
They're really leaning hard on that TOS/TNG Enterprise leitmotif.
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Love it.

Effect said:
I saw it as they started with the TOS Movie bridge and used that as a base. It looks great though!
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Yeah it looks incredible.
 
aceface

aceface

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Ok I figured it out. Discovery (minus Spock who has to stay behind for reasons) jumps to the future. Star fleet destroys all advanced computer tech because of the Control threat which is why TOS is so primitive. Crossover between Disco and the Picard show for season 3!
 
Miamiwesker

Miamiwesker

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Oct 25, 2017
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So good, what a setup for a season finale. That's one of the best setup episodes I've seen, all the good byes were well done.

I'm loving this, why is discovery non existent in the timeline, cause they left the timeline, awesome.
 
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