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Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 |OT| Exploration is logical

Oct 25, 2017
1,822
It just occurred to me that both StarTrek: Discovery and Avengers: Infinity War have the same basic plot. Big Bad (Control\Thanos) intends to (kill\erase) a large portion of life in the (galaxy\universe), the heroes need to stop this using the (Time Stone\Time Crystal) to prevent it because every other outcome has been foreseen to end in failure by a time traveling doctor(Dr. strange\Dr. Burnham)
 
I don’t like Control. It seemed to come out of nowhere and suddenly be fucking with everything. I don’t understand its motivation and I don’t really care.

I like watching Discovery try to fight it, but they might as well be fighting a glittering cloud of prehistoric M&Ms made from dreams and pins, that seeks to end all life because it wants to paint the universe lilac and doesn’t want any creatures touching the wet paint. I’m ready for this arc to be finished.
 
May 21, 2018
117
I don’t like Control. It seemed to come out of nowhere and suddenly be fucking with everything. I don’t understand its motivation and I don’t really care.

I like watching Discovery try to fight it, but they might as well be fighting a glittering cloud of prehistoric M&Ms made from dreams and pins, that seeks to end all life because it wants to paint the universe lilac and doesn’t want any creatures touching the wet paint. I’m ready for this arc to be finished.
Agreed. It's just not compelling in it's motivation. I'm worried how this will be brushed under the rug such that we never hear of Control again.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,520
I'd be curious how much discontinuous TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT are if put under this same level of scrutiny
Aside a few things between TOS and TNG, of which many eventually got explanations, there hasn't been this level of continuity disconnect since TNG where they attempted to do a much better job than TOS ever did. Plenty of small things you can put down to errors sure, but STD is doing major things intentionally.

They totally were, and the reaction to each of them from the "real" (this is sarcasm) Trek fans was absolutely venomous. Even TNG went through a LOT of shit from people who thought it was the worst thing ever and was ruining their childhoods.
I see people say this a lot, but I wonder how many people are just repeating what they heard from someone else. Nearly all the shit TNG got was because Phase II with original cast and crew was expected and wanted and instead it was a whole new cast and crew. Basically "It not Kirk and Spock, this sucks". That is very different to the criticisms of STD.
 
Apr 13, 2018
304
Control seems pretty aware and even able to pass for human as it is. Why does it even need the sphere data to evolve to a full AI?
Not only is control fully aware but clearly so is the sphere data. Why does the sphere data need control? Why does the sphere data even need single storage? How does it know when it is being transferred as opposed to deleted? How is it able to track its parts? Does each byte of data contain both the entire intelligence of the sphere and part of its knowledge? What birthed the sphere and could there not be more? Why did it take so long for control to begin replication? The Borg theory makes sense... Wait no it does not since control is already far more sophisticated than the Borg.

The only solution, don't ask logical questions or Alice might wake up.
 
Oct 28, 2017
472
I don’t like Control. It seemed to come out of nowhere and suddenly be fucking with everything. I don’t understand its motivation and I don’t really care.

I like watching Discovery try to fight it, but they might as well be fighting a glittering cloud of prehistoric M&Ms made from dreams and pins, that seeks to end all life because it wants to paint the universe lilac and doesn’t want any creatures touching the wet paint. I’m ready for this arc to be finished.
Same here. I think Discovery, about 3-4 episodes into season two, took a massive downturn in terms of quality to the point where things are really starting to annoy me. They way Michael doesn't seem to be able to talk properly, instead doing a forced loud whisper, is getting to me. I never want to hear the words "control" or "sphere" again. They had a big fanfare for the death of someone they hadn't built up any way of me really caring about. It shows that Trek going purely "ongoing story" instead of having occasional standalone episodes becomes a problem if you really don't care about the ongoing story. And yes, as I think I mentioned before, having a lead character who by definition holds back her emotions is problematic, it has stopped me really caring about her. I just can't gel with Michael at all.

This Queen that suddenly appeared in the most recent episode and was super important ... I don't even remember who that was.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,329
And yes, as I think I mentioned before, having a lead character who by definition holds back her emotions is problematic, it has stopped me really caring about her.
The thing is that the writers seemingly realised this because she was apparently adopted by Sarek to help Spock with his emotions and she is having a breakdown in pretty much every episode. Part of that is the absolute dire stakes of every episode but I have to imagine it was also to give her something. Though at this point her stoic Vulcan upbringing is basically a nonfactor.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,708
The thing is that the writers seemingly realised this because she was apparently adopted by Sarek to help Spock with his emotions and she is having a breakdown in pretty much every episode. Part of that is the absolute dire stakes of every episode but I have to imagine it was also to give her something. Though at this point her stoic Vulcan upbringing is basically a nonfactor.
I was gonna say, she doesn't hold back her emotions at this point at all. That's what I meant by my previous comment on her characterization having taken a sharp turn since early season 1. She's maybe the most emotive and neurotic person on the ship at this point (okay maybe Lily takes that one).
 
Oct 28, 2017
472
I disagree and part of that is the way she speaks, which is pretty much the same way in every single scene. A slightly louder, raspy whisper. No matter what she is saying or what is happening, that is the way she sounds. The same way for every single instance.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,498
The problem with the Control thing is that the closest thing to an answer - that it's trying to ensure a stable time loop - doesn't even work when you remember that Control in the 23rd century had already gone rogue - hence trying to frame Spock. Like, the scarcely sentient Control of the past blindly obeying the directives of Control from the future would be demonstrative of the point. But no, the future AI didn't corrupt the past one, just got in contact with it, and the exact conclusion of why it 'needs' the Sphere Data isn't really touched on beyond that surface claim that doesn't seem to match - especially given its copying of sapient mannerisms with not much difficulty.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,698
So I forgot that Terralyceum - or however you call it - is actually in the Beta quadrant, decades from the federation at standard warp speeds.

I was wondering, if Disco is jumping forward in the same timeline, how they would handle interaction with future Starfleet, but I guess that’s the answer. I guess the spore drive will become broken in the process, so they can’t simply jump about at will, and will be stuck out there ... leaving it to be a new Star Trek, future beta quadrant edition, with no interactions with any known factions, let alone Starfleet.

I suppose meanwhile, Starfleet ‘in the past’ might classify all knowledge of Disco and it’s crew. That maybe might tie up why nobody ever talks about Michael thereafter. And since Disco was their only working spore drive prototype, I guess that’s how that tech disappears.

Perhaps not as clean an excise as a timeline change, but I guess it can work.

That just leaves what their mission will be out there, and what motivation there’ll be to ‘Star trek’ around, rather than to just settle on Terralyceum.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,708
Watching The Return of the Archons, where Kirk and Spock talk down an AI which is controlling human society into self destructing was...interesting. Spock should try that with Control.

The above post reminds me, why do they need the suit + time crystal to jump in time? Can't the spore drive already do that?
 
Watching The Return of the Archons, where Kirk and Spock talk down an AI which is controlling human society into self destructing was...interesting. Spock should try that with Control.

The above post reminds me, why do they need the suit + time crystal to jump in time? Can't the spore drive already do that?
That was unintended though. There was a lot of weirdness between jumping across universes. Though that might have ensured Control never got it. Terrans would tho.
 
Oct 28, 2017
845
So I forgot that Terralyceum - or however you call it - is actually in the Beta quadrant, decades from the federation at standard warp speeds.

I was wondering, if Disco is jumping forward in the same timeline, how they would handle interaction with future Starfleet, but I guess that’s the answer. I guess the spore drive will become broken in the process, so they can’t simply jump about at will, and will be stuck out there ... leaving it to be a new Star Trek, future beta quadrant edition, with no interactions with any known factions, let alone Starfleet.

I suppose meanwhile, Starfleet ‘in the past’ might classify all knowledge of Disco and it’s crew. That maybe might tie up why nobody ever talks about Michael thereafter. And since Disco was their only working spore drive prototype, I guess that’s how that tech disappears.

Perhaps not as clean an excise as a timeline change, but I guess it can work.

That just leaves what their mission will be out there, and what motivation there’ll be to ‘Star trek’ around, rather than to just settle on Terralyceum.
Seems like a natural way to end the series but I don’t think CBS have the balls; it’s bound to trigger a few fans.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,528
So, I just want to say, I am on S2, Episode 2. Like right at the beginning. Right now I just can't like Tilly. She seems to be stage front thus far, and I just can't get used to her. S1 was bearable, but she seems so over the top in this season it just makes me cringe.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,708
That was unintended though. There was a lot of weirdness between jumping across universes. Though that might have ensured Control never got it. Terrans would tho.
It was intended, Lorca orchestrated it. The 100+ (or whatever it was) jumps they did in the battle against Klingons was to perform some calculations to arrive his intended location in the MU. I guess the fact that it takes a lot out of Stamets is reason enough to not consider it as an option (but if that was due to the excessive jumps or due to MU Stamets siphoning energy from the mycelial network is not clear to me).
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,528
I will not allow any slander of ma kween. Tilly is amazing.
I'm really trying hard to get with the program of liking her. S1, she was a bit grating for me, but it fit with the whole new crew, awkward, nerdy, but smart cadet persona. I would've liked her to be a bit more grounded as a now official officer of the crew, but the over the top awkwardness is ramped up even more. I dunno. Literally the only character on the entire show I'm having issues with.
 
It was intended, Lorca orchestrated it. The 100+ (or whatever it was) jumps they did in the battle against Klingons was to perform some calculations to arrive his intended location in the MU. I guess the fact that it takes a lot out of Stamets is reason enough to not consider it as an option (but if that was due to the excessive jumps or due to MU Stamets siphoning energy from the mycelial network is not clear to me).
The jump to the MU was intended but the time jump wasn’t. It was merely a method to allow them to skip to the end of the war and resolve it in the season finale.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,708
I'm gonna be in the minority here but I definitely prefer everyone's characterisation from S1 than S2 (Pike excepting as he wasn't around in S1), though S2 has had some stand out character episodes.

The jump to the MU was intended but the time jump wasn’t. It was merely a method to allow them to skip to the end of the war and resolve it in the season finale.
Sure but they could just do what Lorca did to arrive at exactly the intended location (both in time and space).
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,923
I'm gonna be in the minority here but I definitely prefer everyone's characterisation from S1 than S2 (Pike excepting as he wasn't around in S1), though S2 has had some stand out character episodes.


Sure but they could just do what Lorca did to arrive at exactly the intended location (both in time and space).
Well that still leaves the problem that Stammats might die in the process and that honestly, could you imagine what the Terrans would do if they ever get a working Spore Drive and the Sphere Data ontop?
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,732
If this is the origin story of the Borg, I am calling nanomachines merging with app and identifying her hyper intelligence makes a perfect melding if biological and synthetic life forms.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,708
Well that still leaves the problem that Stammats might die in the process and that honestly, could you imagine what the Terrans would do if they ever get a working Spore Drive and the Sphere Data ontop?
Yeah as I said the effect it has on Stamets is reason enough to not do it (but even then I'm not sure if that was because of excessive jumps or the mycelial network being corrupted by MU Stamets). However they don't have to jump to Terrans/MU. They can go anywhere else.
 
Time travel question:

The suggestion seems to be that by doing this, Discovery will be erased from the current timeline. That it will be as if it wasn't ever there.

(It being that way also, obviously, neatly ties up everything 'odd' about Disco and the existing Star Trek timeline...why Spock never mentioned Michael, why the Spore drive is never mentioned etc).

But is that how going travelling to the future works via this method? After all, the history of Michael's Mom didn't change just because she threw herself forward in time via this suit.

Or do we just accept it'll be this way in this case for the sake of the plot...
Because of the nature of Discovery, it’s technology, the sphere data it is very very likely that any mention of it would have been classified on penaltynof treason by the Federation and the Klingon empire. For reasons that a single data point would give Control or another source the potential to repeat the incident. The time travel neatly removes it from the equation.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,822
It just seems like they all think there's only one solution and the scaffolding is flimsy on why that is. They have for all practical purposes the ability to indefinably delay Control by jumping Discovery, but they don't think to use it to let everyone know that their AI is trying to take over the Galaxy .
And I guess that Control is doing nothing while it can't find Discovery? No, it is going to continue to amass power and take over Starfleet.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,923
Yeah as I said the effect it has on Stamets is reason enough to not do it (but even then I'm not sure if that was because of excessive jumps or the mycelial network being corrupted by MU Stamets). However they don't have to jump to Terrans/MU. They can go anywhere else.
Because of the nature of Discovery, it’s technology, the sphere data it is very very likely that any mention of it would have been classified on penaltynof treason by the Federation and the Klingon empire. For reasons that a single data point would give Control or another source the potential to repeat the incident. The time travel neatly removes it from the equation.
I'm with SlipperyFishes here, yeah I agree they could jump anywhere else to gain more time to come up with something but Michael's mum already observed many futures and she said trying to protect the data will always end up as a failure. And yeah as sooperkool says, at the moment Control is fixed on the Discovery and Michael, if the Discovery simply jumps to the Andromeda galaxy or whereever Control might do whatever it takes to get there. With Discovery out of time, I'm not sure it has enough conscious yet to figure out time-travel by itself.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,822
It’s easier to pretend you’re beaten and hide than amass power without the abilities you don’t have yet
Control is already controlling communications, directing an entire division of Starfleet and impersonating high ranking Federation members without anyones knowledge. it already has enough power to take over Starfleet. What we don't know is if it has enough power or a reason currently to eliminate life in the galaxy. there is absolutely nothing about Control's status right now to suggest that it is weak.

It's like some of you are cpletely disregardng obvious and blatent logic so the narrative of the show not making sense fits your worldview.
 
Control is already controlling communications, directing an entire division of Starfleet and impersonating high ranking Federation members without anyones knowledge. it already has enough power to take over Starfleet. What we don't know is if it has enough power or a reason currently to eliminate life in the galaxy. there is absolutely nothing about Control's status right now to suggest that it is weak.

It's like some of you are cpletely disregardng obvious and blatent logic so the narrative of the show not making sense fits your worldview.
Except everyone knows now. Those are Section 31 ships but it’s likely everyone is dead on board. And quit with the shade throwing man, no need to show your ass to other fans who are just here for fun
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,923
Having major character development and all about a new character hidden away in an short. I don't live in the US, I watch Discovery on Netflix. There has been nothing on Netflix about these shorts, I only just found out that they are in the trailer section in this thread a few hours ago.
I agree the shorts should be way more visible but that's the fault of Netflix, not of the show.