Jonathan Frakes has turned into a hell of a director. When a show doesn't squeeze him with formula the man can shine.
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I giggled a little when the monster that tried to kill Burnham in episode 8 was making Jurassic Park T-Rex noises.
I really do hate that I'm super worried about tomorrow's episode. There is no anticipation I'm feeling right now but instead dread for what could be happening. Something I really do not at all want to see happen and the possible reasons why it could be happening. Ugh. I've loved watching this show since the start and the fact I'm in this place is pretty damn depressing at the moment.
I'd honestly be much more interested in a captain pike spin off with Anson than I am in Discovery
You and most everyone else in this thread, particularly if Spock is also aboard.
I just started Discovery (got All Access for Twlight Zone), and I'm wondering when this gets good?
I'm three episodes in and thus far it's middling Trek. Better than DS9, but worse than Voyager. It certainly ain't TNG.
I'm three episodes in and thus far it's middling Trek. Better than DS9, but worse than Voyager. It certainly ain't TNG.
S1 ? If so, the first 4-5 episodes are bad but I loved it after that
"Remain klingon" zzzZzzZz
Thanks, I'll keep chugging along. Am I supposed to just believe that Klingons evolved to their TOS look from the pod people that are in Discovery? Is that explained?
EDIT: Oh FFS. Roommate Tilly just showed up. How good does this get in episode 6? It better be worth it.
I read a comic that explained this, something about klingons trying to use the genetically modified superhuman experiments of eugenic wars
Janeway is GOAT. Prove me wrong.
For me too many episodes of DS9 were entirely uninteresting. When Quark's B story is more compelling than whomever wants to go inside Sisko's hole this week there's something wrong. I know I'm in the minority, but Jake is wesley 2.0, Odo's journey to be not-weird felt like a Data ripoff, and whatever amount of money Dax 1 wanted should have been paid.
that was in the enterprise two parter Affliction & Divergence and to be honest trying to justify the 1966 lo fi Klingon was a mistake
I love Voyager but it had a very big number of bad episodes, it made me watch just the essential ones lol
Kess and Neelix was Jar Jar Binks levels of bad
Also:
Voyager is really popular, on BBC America it's basically TNG and Voyager with the occasional TOS sprinkled in, it's like ENT and DS9 don't exist.
And Voyager is the most popular star trek on netflix (or at least it was)
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/someo...ing-and-rewatching-a-lot-of-star-trek-voyager
And Voyager is the most popular star trek on netflix (or at least it was)
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/someo...ing-and-rewatching-a-lot-of-star-trek-voyager
Voyager is just such a crowd pleaser. I never knew it was unpopular with many fans until a couple of years ago, by looking at forums and social media.
And I agree with a lot of the criticism and it isn't my favorite Trek, but definitely it's one of most enjoyable and fun to rewatch. At least for me. I don't hate it, at all.
I've just caught up with Season 2 and whilst it's a definite improvement over Season 1 it still has issues.
The whole 'Time Suit' thing is utter BS for this era of Trek and is something that belongs in a post-Nemesis series, not something invented 30 years before TOS. Even 31st Century Starfleet didn't have anything like that.
Section 31 being so public and even to the point of having an entire fleet of their own ships is pretty canon breaking. DS9 and ENT both showed Section 31 operate in secret, and you'd think when looking into them in DS9 someone might have mentioned "Oh yeah that massive branch of Starfleet Intelligence that had a few dozen ships of their own and the black badges". That's not the kind of thing you can suddenly hush up. It would be like America trying to suddenly purge all public knowledge across the entire Earth of the CIA existing. Even if they say later in the series that Section 31 is officially disbanded but a few people carry on as we've seen them operate in DS9, the cat was already out of the bag.
Adding to the canon is fine, but it has to be done in a way that respects the existing canon. A few minor tweaks here and there is fine, but the DSC writers still seem hell bent on ignoring canon at best, or just purposefully going against it. Enterprise managed to get this right so it's clearly possible.
And some personal annoyances,
The Warp Speed effect is still needlessly changed. The old effect had persisted since TOS movies and was an iconic representation of travelling at Warp speed. There was no need to go for a Kelvin-verse effect. At least in the Kelvin-verse the new effect makes sense, here it absolutely doesn't.
I don't know if it's the writing or just the actor, but Tyler constantly putting an H at the end of Klingon words is really fucking annoying. It's "Kahless" and "Qo'nos", not "Kahlesh" and "Qo'nosh". It wouldn't be so bad if we'd only ever heard humans pronounce the words in English, but we hear Klingons pronounce them whilst speaking in Klingon MULTIPLE times in TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT, so there's no excuse for it.
The whole 'Time Suit' thing is utter BS for this era of Trek and is something that belongs in a post-Nemesis series, not something invented 30 years before TOS. Even 31st Century Starfleet didn't have anything like that.
Section 31 being so public and even to the point of having an entire fleet of their own ships is pretty canon breaking. DS9 and ENT both showed Section 31 operate in secret, and you'd think when looking into them in DS9 someone might have mentioned "Oh yeah that massive branch of Starfleet Intelligence that had a few dozen ships of their own and the black badges". That's not the kind of thing you can suddenly hush up. It would be like America trying to suddenly purge all public knowledge across the entire Earth of the CIA existing. Even if they say later in the series that Section 31 is officially disbanded but a few people carry on as we've seen them operate in DS9, the cat was already out of the bag.
Adding to the canon is fine, but it has to be done in a way that respects the existing canon. A few minor tweaks here and there is fine, but the DSC writers still seem hell bent on ignoring canon at best, or just purposefully going against it. Enterprise managed to get this right so it's clearly possible.
And some personal annoyances,
The Warp Speed effect is still needlessly changed. The old effect had persisted since TOS movies and was an iconic representation of travelling at Warp speed. There was no need to go for a Kelvin-verse effect. At least in the Kelvin-verse the new effect makes sense, here it absolutely doesn't.
I don't know if it's the writing or just the actor, but Tyler constantly putting an H at the end of Klingon words is really fucking annoying. It's "Kahless" and "Qo'nos", not "Kahlesh" and "Qo'nosh". It wouldn't be so bad if we'd only ever heard humans pronounce the words in English, but we hear Klingons pronounce them whilst speaking in Klingon MULTIPLE times in TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT, so there's no excuse for it.
Yeah, Voyager is the best for rewatches.
I don't think I'll ever re-watch an episode of Discovery though.
I don't think I'll ever re-watch an episode of Discovery though.
actually the klingon spoken in discovery is apparently more accurate compared to the berman era
while i agree that the ''time suit'' is meh, in TOS the only thing you needed to time travel was a Star and a warp drive which is a bit too easy...
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It's only Tyler who adds the H though. Other characters, human or Klingon, use the same pronunciation as the other shows.
True, but that method was considered extremely dangerous and even a slight miscalculation would result in either the destruction of the ship, or you arriving in the wrong time.
Only last night did I manage to watch the last ep. More good stuff. I'm not even going to look at how much whining there was about all the ships/shuttles/drones flying around. I know there must have been some "BUT WHARE DO THEY STORE THEM!!!1" going on in some parts.
Had better happen.
At least in this thread I dont actually remember that many complaints thankfully.
For me it became good a few episodes in when they toned down the klingons being subtitled scenes and they just spoke english, it became awesome with the midseason finale (episode 9). The arc that followed was so much fun.
And when you say it's no TNG please remember that TNG wasn't the show it eventually became at the start, its first three episodes where Encounter at Farpoint, The Naked Now and Code of Honor aka a drawn out, crappy premiere with a "mystery" the audience solved an hour before the characters, a TOS sequel/remake and a racist POS episode. While Discovery didn't start great middling trek is significantly better than TNG's shit trek beginning.
DS9 was good but its serialization means it has less rewatch value because a single episode in the middle of an arc doesn't offer much in its own. Voyager had many really great episodes (and many not so great ones) but no matter what episode is on it can be watched as its own thing.
As great as serialized storytelling is when it comes to repeats and rewatching stuff I usually go for procedural entertainment, so I get why Voyager is popular, easy to get into and a likable cast.
So what? Then he has a different accent. I'm german and pronounce Berlin Bear-leen, an american will say Burr-linn and that's just one example of a bazillion worldwide. Expecting everyone to pronounce ebery klingon wird or name identical doesn't make a lot of sense.
Honestly the thing with the time suit is that it falls into a case of the series' admittedly increasing habit of trying to hide plot twists behind outright false information, with then an attempt to rationalise afterwards - except in the case of the time suit they don't even do that much. The failure to properly identify the person inside the suit gets this done twice even: First by arguing that the mitochondrial DNA one receives from their mother was enough to create a false positive (even though Culber called it a 100% match, not a close match that would suggest margin of error), and then by arguing that Michael actually was the one in there, and they just unwittingly caught a different timesuit (Gabrielle) instead. But the actual suit itself has yet to receive such an explanation, despite an original claim it was centuries ahead of anything the Federation had ever encountered. Maybe the underlying implication is meant to be that Gabrielle Burnham is just that much of a genius - which certainly wouldn't be a first for Trek - but it could have just as easily been resolved by a mention that she augmented it with remnants of future tech from the ruins of civilisation that lay around her. Hell, that would have further added to why she couldn't leave the future for very long of her own accord - some of the materials she was now using were from the future and the suit had interpreted that to be its point of origin. Instead, right now, we have a contradiction - rather than merely a wrongful misinterpretion of available information - intended to obscure the twist. It's minor but it is annoying; then again, Star Trek has also done this before, owing to behind the scenes conflicts and changes.
If we want to talk massive inconsistencies in the history of Trek, just look at the in-story reason Odo looks like that in humanoid form
Or Captain Brexton's Time Police (tm) which never shows up despite grave temporal discrepancies like the one that caused the Kelvinverse to exist or Voyager not slipstream-crashing on the ice-planet or the whole Year of Hell thing...
'This is me trying to imitate the man that raised me'
later
'...Oh, I guess we all just look like that'
Remember when Khan recognizes Chekov as a member of the Enterprise crew when Chekov wasn't on the show yet in Space Seed?
I would be totally down for this thread just turning into calling out all of Star Trek's plot inconsistencies/holes.
Ignoring the jokey explanation Koenig usually gives for that I'm fine with the reasoning that while Koenig had yet to be cast, that doesn't mean Chekov wasn't on the Enterprise yet.
I remember a video somewhere (youtube, I think?) which was just a highlight reel of series contradicting themselves. It mainly sticks in my mind because of one sequence about the 'strongest' materials...
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Not sure if it's the exact one, but yeah
Apparently the way Tyler's speaking Klingon is the "correct" way, taught by dialect coaches. What the did in tng+ era was basically all wrong. Even though it's the way I remember/enjoy it, much of it was gobbledygook and we're hearing it spoken to the creator's wishes now.
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Year of hell was great indeed
The Doctor also was a high point of the series
I believe Voyager was cool because they had a goal, go back home, and you can watch what episodes helped to advance the characters and the story so they could achieve that
The Kelvinverse existing required how time travel works in-universe to be retconned (which destroys shitloads of episodes and movies problems) so is best ignored.
The other incidents fixed themselves so required no intervention.
Point taken, you're right with both things I guess. My personal headcanon is that the Temporal Prime Directive only requires them to fix issues that got caused by time-travel that has its point of origin after the directive was established anyway.
That or otherwise there's contravening evidence that suggests that they are not involved in the incident, therefore they must stay out of it
Torpedoes replenished when Voyager trades with races for supplies.
D7 was retired, some were refitted into D7 K'Tinga which is what seen in DS9 (though to be fair they didn't have a basic D7 to use for the Voyager episode so used a K'Tinga model and just called it D7).
That could also be but I bet they would have some leeway if things even just indirectly threaten the Federation and/or humanity.
How does it need to be retconned? I mean, I know the point is that other time travel excursions in universe just result in changed history and not parallel timelines (though that episode in TNG where multiple ENT-Ds are appearing from different universes shows there's more than just Prime and Terran universe), but I assumed the fact that the time travel was facilitated by dark matter could just be used to explain the difference in result.
