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Oct 25, 2017
3,119
  • Wish they didn't kill Cornwell off. Felt like they just wanted a semi important death
  • I hope next season they will stop putting Michael through the ringer every other episode. It's understandable she has been highly emotional from all the shit she was dealing with, but can we please let her be happy. I want more of the Michael from the Mudd episode.
  • I will never get tired of Georgio chewing scenery
  • I'm glad that Number One has an official name now
  • Pike show when?
I am so ready for the next season. The backend of this season wasn't that interesting to me. The Red Angel mystery was fine, but Control was just some big bad they had to get rid of. Looking forward to what they do in season 3 without all the TOS baggage and fan complaints that come with it.
 

funky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,527
The time jump thing still bothers me for two reasons.

- Control can still exist in the future and if anything this would give it 1000 years to get more advanced. They can lay low and just wait and see when Disco turns up in the future. its AI and a AI can wait.
- Or if control was truly defeated when Lealand died, why did they still jump into the future?
 

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,962
Man that was so good. It hit every emotional beat for me perfectly. 10/10 in my book.

I'm not one to nitpick but one thing bothered me. Was there no way for the Admiral Cornwall to lock the bay door from the inside and then teleport her out before the torpedo exploded?

Man with that set and that cast-how can they NOT give us a Pike and Spock show??
 

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,962
Um, that finale KILLED me [this is a good thing].

The moments between Spock and Burnham, Georgiou owning Leiland... the fucking moment when Burnham's visor came down on her helmet after her amazing moment with her brother, the wormhole travelling scene!!! - WTH THIS WAS AMAZING.

Full disclosure, I'm tapering off my SSRI meds, but I was full on ugly crying at multiple moments [this is also a good thing].

Say what you want, and say what you will, but as a lifelong Trekkie, this gave me all the feels and I fkn LOVED IT.

Man I'm so glad you said this. I was getting teary eyed when everyone was saying their goodbyes -and when Culber was tending to Stamets. Like I said-it hit every emotional beat for me. I love these characters.
 

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,695
Cornwell death was bad because it seems that they wanted to get rid of her because "canon", as there were no women in high ranks in TOS.
 

DrForester

Mod of the Year 2006
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,704
D4kBYQgWkAIdf0_.png


https://twitter.com/DavidAlanMack/status/1119428330674114561


Cornwell death was bad because it seems that they wanted to get rid of her because "canon", as there were no women in high ranks in TOS.

I doubt that was the reason. "Turnabout Intruder" was an awful episode with a disgusting premise and I can't imagine they'd ever legitimize it. I mean, just by having Georgiou a Captain they showed they were ignoring that.



I'm actually surprised there weren't more deaths. Seems like it would have made sense to kill L'Rell and/or Ash since they're effectively off the show now.
 

funky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,527
I'm doubting that's their motivation here.
That's a thing better left ignored than worked around.

I think everyone just ignores that aspect of TOS for obvious reasons and none of that shit counts which if fine by me.


although if some ballzy writer wants to take a stab at the canon reason starfleet might become extremely sexist for a decade in the 23rd century but is totally cool before and after that window of time I would want to see them take that swing. Because that would be a real mess.
 

deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,215
Tampa, Fl
The sad thing was that Turnabout Intruder was written by Gene. It has always made me worried that Number One was cast as 1st officer in the pilot for bad reasons.
 

Teiresias

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,223
The sad thing was that Turnabout Intruder was written by Gene. It has always made me worried that Number One was cast as 1st officer in the pilot for bad reasons.

Huh? I mean, Roddenberry's history is fairly notorious and hardly a secret at this point. He did end up marrying Majel anyway (not that he was monogomous or anything).
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
Man I'm so glad you said this. I was getting teary eyed when everyone was saying their goodbyes -and when Culber was tending to Stamets. Like I said-it hit every emotional beat for me. I love these characters.

I feel like the Michael-Spock moment was completely flat. Probably because at this point I'm so sick of her crying and over-acting these emotional moments.
 

rockinreelin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,156
Gotta love discovery's lazy ass writers. They can whip out a cadre of repair bots to fix a faster then light space vessel but they can't command one to pull a fucking lever so instead they make a character sacrifice their life for nothing.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,812
The Angel was Michael all along. And it wasn't initally from the future but 20 year old tech S31 had lying around. Then Michael's mother who invented it took it to the future to escape the Klingons but then found a sentient AI that runs S31 had taken over the galaxy and exterminated all civilisations.

They used the Armin Tamzarian solution. Anything relating to Discovery, her tech, her mission, her crew, up to and including saying Michael Burnham's name is punishable as treason. Which is strange because I don't remember the spore drive being the causal reason for any of the time travel shenanigans. In fact it was a handy advantage critical in allowing them to complete their mission and defeat the AI. If anything it would only strengthen the need for Federation-wide spore travel.

Thank you. Nothing about this makes me want to watch the season, I'll give it a go again in season 3 since it seems like it might take place in the future. It's really a shame that such a good looking show is bogged down by such average writing. Star Trek can be better than that. Worse too, I won't lie, but the spark is just missing from Discovery for me.
 

Kschreck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,075
Pennsylvania
Discovery this season really delivered for me. Was it perfect? Nope but man it was freakin fun as heck and a really exciting all the way through. Personally I love this show and I have very little in the way of complaints. One can nitpick and many do but this season made this long time Star Trek fan happy. Bring on season 3 and the Picard series. :)
 

Don_Tombery

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
97
The time jump thing still bothers me for two reasons.

- Control can still exist in the future and if anything this would give it 1000 years to get more advanced. They can lay low and just wait and see when Disco turns up in the future. its AI and a AI can wait.
- Or if control was truly defeated when Lealand died, why did they still jump into the future?

I would have liked something like doing a time jump but not to the future, but waaaaay to the past.
Let Discovery do it's job to 'discover'. Let it collect the data itself (or in this case more guard the data) and become the Sphere over millions of years. Done, time loop complete. And the data would be 100% out of reach of Control or a future Control (unless control discovers time travel).
Although that would have been more the story of a final season.
 
Last edited:

Lagamorph

Wrong About Chicken
Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,355
Another thing I don't get is why Control even needed the sphere data. It seems pretty damned conscious without it already and is able to completely take over Section 31 anyway.
Control clearly displays intent, independent thinking and even emotion without the data.
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,026
Another thing I don't get is why Control even needed the sphere data. It seems pretty damned conscious without it already and is able to completely take over Section 31 anyway.
Control clearly displays intent, independent thinking and even emotion without the data.

What's annoying with that is they had stable time loop logic available if they wanted it - that Control might have only ever wanted the Sphere data because Control of the future told it it needed the Sphere Data. However, it's shown that Control had gone rogue in the weeks before Airiam's takeover, so...???
 

Paganmoon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,586
What's annoying with that is they had stable time loop logic available if they wanted it - that Control might have only ever wanted the Sphere data because Control of the future told it it needed the Sphere Data. However, it's shown that Control had gone rogue in the weeks before Airiam's takeover, so...???

Control gets concious, spends the next millenia accumulating data and knowledge, then time travels back to when it got conciousness to give itself all that knowledge to be able to eradicate all life before it evolves beyond it's capabilities?
 

Bitmap Frogs

Banned
Sep 16, 2018
705
This doesn't make sense, Orville's done more 'SJW' stuff than STD has.

Personally, I think the problem is that STD feels preachy at times. You can be inclusive and diverse without being preachy.

It's like Brooklyn 99: the show from the beginning has had an openly gay character, has had episodes revolving around his struggles in a traditionally hostle environment like the police force and yet never felt preachy. However the episode where Diaz came out of the closet was preachy as fuck.

Preachy TV is bad TV.
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,026
Control gets concious, spends the next millenia accumulating data and knowledge, then time travels back to when it got conciousness to give itself all that knowledge to be able to eradicate all life before it evolves beyond it's capabilities?

Basically. Control corrupts itself, which would have then lended weight to the significance of denying the Sphere Data - it's what would break the loop, if successful. Because a Control that doesn't have the Sphere Data cannot go back to tell itself to grab the Sphere Data. All you need is to handwave a few existing remnants of the defunct timeline - same as say, the alternate Tasha Yar who gave birth to Sela - and voila.
 

Plainswalker

Member
Apr 14, 2018
846
Canada
Personally, I think the problem is that STD feels preachy at times. You can be inclusive and diverse without being preachy.

It's like Brooklyn 99: the show from the beginning has had an openly gay character, has had episodes revolving around his struggles in a traditionally hostle environment like the police force and yet never felt preachy. However the episode where Diaz came out of the closet was preachy as fuck.

Preachy TV is bad TV.
And what, pray tell, is Discovery preachy about? I'm REALLY interested to hear the answer to this one.
 

Lagamorph

Wrong About Chicken
Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,355
Can't say I ever got the impression of Discovery being preachy at all. It's not like the show was being all "LOOK! LOOK AT OUR DIVERSE CAST AND HOW THEY AREN'T ALL STRAIGHT! LOOK AT THEM!!!!!", the characters simply were who they were. That was probably one element of the writing that they actually got right.
It rammed Michael being the saviour of the fucking universe down your throat sure but that wasn't preachy, it was just Shonen Protag tier writing.
 

Window

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,284
Yeah I agree I don't think Discovery has ever felt preachy to me about it's diverse cast and characters. They seem to fit in with the story in an organic manner. I've been very impressed with how good the show is about this. Discovery has very handed storytelling but that's with respect to character emotions (I won't say themes because it seems to lacks overarching themes - except maybe the first half of S1).
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,736
- Or if control was truly defeated when Lealand died, why did they still jump into the future?

Yeah, this bothered me. I think there might be something in the dialog at the very end that might get to this, and why Discovery still had to go - that maybe the threat wasn't as expunged as it seemed in the moment. But that they didn't even pause after it was known Leyland/Control was 'neutralised' was a big wtf moment for me, given that the undefeatability of Control was the whole crook on which the jump to the future hung.

I think we just have to write this off though.

I think something they will have to address, though, is the problem mentioned above in the thread about why Burnham was able to jump around multiple times, when the time crystal was supposed to be only good for one jump. Again this was a crucial point - the whole reason it was a one way ticket to the future.

If it's ambiguous, as it is now, about whether the suit can still jump around in time, they need to explain what happened there next season. It raises too many questions. There are many ways to do it, but they have to offer something - like maybe jumping actually recharges the crystal in a self-fuelling kind of way, and they didn't know this? Possibly it's how Georgiou gets back to the Pike era, if that's when the section 31 show is operating in.
 

Paganmoon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,586
I believe they said it would be good for that jump only (cause it was such a "long" jump?), so shorter jumps might not deplete it as much/fast.
But maybe they should've been more preachy about that aspect.
 

Deleted member 5028

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,724
Yeah, this bothered me. I think there might be something in the dialog at the very end that might get to this, and why Discovery still had to go - that maybe the threat wasn't as expunged as it seemed in the moment. But that they didn't even pause after it was known Leyland/Control was 'neutralised' was a big wtf moment for me, given that the undefeatability of Control was the whole crook on which the jump to the future hung.

I think we just have to write this off though.

I think something they will have to address, though, is the problem mentioned above in the thread about why Burnham was able to jump around multiple times, when the time crystal was supposed to be only good for one jump. Again this was a crucial point - the whole reason it was a one way ticket to the future.

If it's ambiguous, as it is now, about whether the suit can still jump around in time, they need to explain what happened there next season. It raises too many questions. There are many ways to do it, but they have to offer something - like maybe jumping actually recharges the crystal in a self-fuelling kind of way, and they didn't know this? Possibly it's how Georgiou gets back to the Pike era, if that's when the section 31 show is operating in.
I'm guessing that the work the Queen did I. It overpowered the crystal beyond its one jump?
 

Skyfireblaze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,257
Yeah, this bothered me. I think there might be something in the dialog at the very end that might get to this, and why Discovery still had to go - that maybe the threat wasn't as expunged as it seemed in the moment. But that they didn't even pause after it was known Leyland/Control was 'neutralised' was a big wtf moment for me, given that the undefeatability of Control was the whole crook on which the jump to the future hung.

I think we just have to write this off though.

I think something they will have to address, though, is the problem mentioned above in the thread about why Burnham was able to jump around multiple times, when the time crystal was supposed to be only good for one jump. Again this was a crucial point - the whole reason it was a one way ticket to the future.

If it's ambiguous, as it is now, about whether the suit can still jump around in time, they need to explain what happened there next season. It raises too many questions. There are many ways to do it, but they have to offer something - like maybe jumping actually recharges the crystal in a self-fuelling kind of way, and they didn't know this? Possibly it's how Georgiou gets back to the Pike era, if that's when the section 31 show is operating in.
I'm guessing that the work the Queen did I. It overpowered the crystal beyond its one jump?

About Control, I understood it tha Leyland was basically a centralized control-node as Control disabled subspace communications so while Leyland wasn't the actual core of Control it was the only controlling entity that was in the vicinity to control the ships.

As for the jump, I think it was mentioned that the suit was able to jump multiple times just fine but that opening a wormhole that is big enough to fit the Discovery inside is what would burn the crystal out. Which still doesn't explain why they couldn't just move the Sphere Data into the suit this time as this was apparently possible with the suit of Dr. Burnham but I digress. I could see that explained that that suit had memory-capabilities from future components they couldn't replicate.

That was the reason it could only do one jump, because the Queen did a weird overcharge in it.

Or that, I have to rewatch episodes 10 to 13 at one point :P
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Does this make the Discovery-verse it's own time line now?

Its Pike was a masterful rendition,
relieved to see he didn't have his canonical fate.

This Spock was phenomenal. He felt faithful to TOS without retreading old ground and breathing new life into the character.
Pity he ditched his black casual gear for Starfleet, he looked cool AF in that design.
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,629
Does this make the Discovery-verse it's own time line now?

Its Pike was a masterful rendition,
relieved to see he didn't have his canonical fate.

This Spock was phenomenal. He felt faithful to TOS without retreading old ground and breathing new life into the character.
Pity he ditched his black casual gear for Starfleet, he looked cool AF in that design.

Discovery is still in the same timeline, it's just past everything else now.
 

JDSN

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,129
Pretty great episode, they are really kicking it out the park in terms of the scale that the show deserves. This could easily work as a series finale.

Personally, I think the problem is that STD feels preachy at times. You can be inclusive and diverse without being preachy.

It's like Brooklyn 99: the show from the beginning has had an openly gay character, has had episodes revolving around his struggles in a traditionally hostle environment like the police force and yet never felt preachy. However the episode where Diaz came out of the closet was preachy as fuck.

Preachy TV is bad TV.
This fanbase aint subtle sometimes.
 

EvilRedEye

Member
Oct 29, 2017
747
Re: representation, it did feel like they were making a concerted attempt to get the LGBT representation right this year. In the context of a dreadful first 50 years for LGBT representation and a first season that stumbled into tragic gay tropes, I don't think it matters too much whether they got the subtlety spot on. I did appreciate them having Pike and Spock give an LGBT couple relationship advice and thus underlining that LGBT people have indeed existed in the Prime universe since the TOS days.
 

Deleted member 5028

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,724
Does this make the Discovery-verse it's own time line now?

Its Pike was a masterful rendition,
relieved to see he didn't have his canonical fate.

This Spock was phenomenal. He felt faithful to TOS without retreading old ground and breathing new life into the character.
Pity he ditched his black casual gear for Starfleet, he looked cool AF in that design.
Pike still meets that fate down the line. They literally showed and telegraphed that to him.