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Star Trek Franchise |OT| To Boldly Go.....

Oct 25, 2017
3,529
Rewatched STD, honestly I think the only good episode is the timeloop episode.

Opening two are terrible, so many others just blur into eachother and fail to feel like episodes at all. Voq stuff is still hugely stupid. Klingon war is terrible and L'Rell would have been shot on the spot for trying hold the planet hostage. Lorca was best character by far, by faaaaaar, and he gone. Micheal is a terrible character.

No wonder they pulling in the Enterprise, Spock and such, I don't think the Discovery crew can hold a show on their own.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
3,452
Researched STD, honestly I think the only good episode is the timeloop episode.

Opening two are terrible, so many others just blur into eachother and fail to feel like episodes at all. Voq stuff is still hugely stupid. Klingon war is terrible and L'Rell would have been shot on the spot for trying hold the planet hostage. Lorca was best character by far, by faaaaaar, and he gone. Micheal is a terrible character.

No wonder they pulling in the Enterprise, Spock and such, I don't think the Discovery crew can hold a show on their own.
It seems like critically DSC did pretty well, I dunno how well it did critically. I do agree doubling down on familiar characters seems like a move you don't make if you're self-assured.

It still bums me out that they turn Lorca from a dark character suffering from his past into just a plain evil villain with an inappropriate thing going for Burnham. Talk about needlessly shafting a half-season of character development.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,356
My friend who is slowly getting into sci-fi and has watched some TNG/VOY but is by no means a big star trek fan absolutely loved Disco, she's signing up for CBS AA for the new season.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,356
So I got some more of those Eaglemoss models but the Romulan Warbird and NX-01 don't seem to secure very well to the little plastic holder. The slightest movement and they fall off, I kinda want to glue them on
 

Stouffers

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,924
I am very happy with Voyager as a show but it stings knowing how much better it could have been if it were more serialized. It didn't even need to be completely serialized - the episodic nature fit the theme of them discovering new cultures and trying to survive in a place where they have no other help. It didn't quite need to become Battlestar Galactica where humanity has been destroyed and every episode was a chaotic frenzy for survival lol. But it does tend to have a "wipe everything clean and forget" theme that happens in a lot of the more interesting episodes. The few recurring threads (like the mirroring relationship between Seven's desire to become more human and the Doctor's pursuit for equality and rights that had a slow and steady pace) were quite good.

Tuvix was fascinating and a true moral dilemma. That final sequence was horrifying to watch as the poor dude realized that no one on Voyager was on his side and that the crew would always put their crew first. I didn't like the character at all so I am happy Janeway and team chose the more psychopathic option even if it felt disturbing to watch them all lose their empathy and force death on him. Tuvok is my man. Neelix is still annoying but I like him in the latter seasons when Kes is gone.
I started liking Neelix after his bout with deep depression
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,242
So I got some more of those Eaglemoss models but the Romulan Warbird and NX-01 don't seem to secure very well to the little plastic holder. The slightest movement and they fall off, I kinda want to glue them on
I don’t have the Romulan one but do you have the NX-01 placed on properly? Quite a few of mine I placed on the stands wrong at first and they wobbled. The NX-01 should slide on at the back of the saucer section, have you done it there or on the bar connecting the nacelles?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,529
So I got some more of those Eaglemoss models but the Romulan Warbird and NX-01 don't seem to secure very well to the little plastic holder. The slightest movement and they fall off, I kinda want to glue them on
The warbird isn't the most secure, but the NX should be, as said check you're connecting it right and on the saucer section.

Though I'll also say, just in general with some of them, use those elastic bands the diameter of a finger you can get, transparent ones. Put around the base/model correctly will hold them tight and cannot really be seen. I did it for some, would post picture but had to box up all my ships for now.

To try describe with warbird, you loop the band from where the stand separates horizontally, up through the rear of the ship, then back over the horizontal stand on the other side of the separation. This pulls the warbird rear down into the stand, where it holds secure.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
3,356
I don’t have the Romulan one but do you have the NX-01 placed on properly? Quite a few of mine I placed on the stands wrong at first and they wobbled. The NX-01 should slide on at the back of the saucer section, have you done it there or on the bar connecting the nacelles?
Yeah I was confused on which part but I looked online and it's connected to the saucer section, it's still not very secure.

The warbird isn't the most secure, but the NX should be, as said check you're connecting it right and on the saucer section.

Though I'll also say, just in general with some of them, use those elastic bands the diameter of a finger you can get, transparent ones. Put around the base/model correctly will hold them tight and cannot really be seen. I did it for some, would post picture but had to box up all my ships for now.

To try describe with warbird, you loop the band from where the stand separates horizontally, up through the rear of the ship, then back over the horizontal stand on the other side of the separation. This pulls the warbird rear down into the stand, where it holds secure.
Oh ok I'll look into that, thanks!
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,452
Just finished up S5 of Voyager. Overall I think it's more consistent than S4, but lacks some of the standout eps. Definitely a little disappointing that there are so many episodes that brush with going from average or good to great and just don't get there. Kind of funny it took them so long to start dealing with stuff like Kim stepping up to command.

Laugh out loud moment in "Juggernaut" when after an explosion Torres immediately strips to her undershirt. She realized this was a Alien riffing episode, and knew she had to prepare.

Just based on what I remember of my impressions of the coming eps S6 and 7 aren't as good, but I'll be interested in seeing how that goes (and if that's true, that's arguably true of all the other 90s Trek shows anyhow.)

EDIT: Also I feel bad for the Doctor. He goes to bat for all these artificial lifeforms and they pretty much all turn out to be murderous. We've got the soldier androids, the murderous isomorph, the Cardassian war criminal, the warhead, and I know we've got the renegade holograms coming up.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
3,356

Some more details about the new series, if you can call it that


Without revealing too much about it, people have so many questions about Picard and what happened to him, and the idea we get to take time to answer those questions in the wake of the many, many things he’s had to deal with in ‘Next Gen’ is really exciting.
‘More grounded’ is not the right way to put it, because Season 2 of ‘Discovery’ is also grounded. It will feel more… real-world? If that’s the right way to put it. It’s an extremely different rhythm than ‘Discovery.’
[If] ‘Discovery’ is a bullet, ‘Picard’ is a very contemplative show. It will find a balance between the speed of ‘Discovery’ and the nature of what ‘Next Gen’ was, but I believe it will have its own rhythm.
 

Quinton

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,194
The Research Triangle
Speaking of Kurtzman, I was looking up an explanation for why he and Roberto Orci "broke up" from writing screenplays together back in 2014, and I ran into this gem of a passage from A.V. Club:

Varietg reports that the team behind Transformers, The Amazing Spider-Man 2, and Star Trek is splitting up so that each can focus on their own big-screen careers, with Kurtzman looking to direct the Spider-Manspinoff Venom and assume control of Universal’s many developing monster movie reboots, while Orci is lobbying to take over Star Trek 3 as his directorial debut. Still, they’ve pledged to keep working together on the TV side, where they remain executive producers on Sleepy Hollow and have several more pilots in development.
1. Venom: Kurtzman didn't direct.
2. Monsterverse: Whoops.
3. Star Trek Beyond: Sorry, Orci; nope.
4. Sleepy Hollow: Cancelled.

What happened instead? Kurtzman struck a five-year deal with CBS to oversee a massive Star Trek push.

Never in a million years would have guessed that one.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,452
It was Orci. Looks like he hasn't been doing all that much—he's producing and writing Scorpion, and Hawaii Five-O, but no new movie projects since Beyond.
 
Oct 27, 2017
193
Going a few episodes into season 4 of DS9, and it's slowly starting to occur to me that it may end up overtaking TNG. Almost makes me feel guilty, like a betrayal of sorts. :)

The overall cast continues to be fantastic.

The Visitor was amazing.

If I had any gripes at all, it would be a lack of any real development it seems for Quark outside of a brief flash or two. And for Worf, I'm not sure I'm digging his arrival, but I know it's WAY too early for me to really judge that.
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,579
If I had any gripes at all, it would be a lack of any real development it seems for Quark outside of a brief flash or two. And for Worf, I'm not sure I'm digging his arrival, but I know it's WAY too early for me to really judge that.
Give it a little more time and you should be satisfied.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,452
The problem with Quark as a character is his defining trait is his conservatism. By the end of the series he's literally arguing against giving women equal rights in his society. It's hard to sympathize with him.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,529
Going a few episodes into season 4 of DS9, and it's slowly starting to occur to me that it may end up overtaking TNG. Almost makes me feel guilty, like a betrayal of sorts. :)

The overall cast continues to be fantastic.

The Visitor was amazing.

If I had any gripes at all, it would be a lack of any real development it seems for Quark outside of a brief flash or two. And for Worf, I'm not sure I'm digging his arrival, but I know it's WAY too early for me to really judge that.
You'll never want another Klingon culture episode by end of DS9. Show ran it to the ground with overuse. Also ruined Jadzia with it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,452
I think the Ferengi and Klingon were definitely overused by the end of DS9. In particular, most attempts at DS9's "lighthearted" eps fell flat on their face.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,356
I hated Quark because of how backwards he was, but they were at least attempting to change him towards the end. I know enough about the klingons that I don't need them to appear again in another series (Thanks a lot Disco)
 

Quinton

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,194
The Research Triangle
Going a few episodes into season 4 of DS9, and it's slowly starting to occur to me that it may end up overtaking TNG. Almost makes me feel guilty, like a betrayal of sorts. :)

The overall cast continues to be fantastic.

The Visitor was amazing.

If I had any gripes at all, it would be a lack of any real development it seems for Quark outside of a brief flash or two. And for Worf, I'm not sure I'm digging his arrival, but I know it's WAY too early for me to really judge that.
Yeah, Worf is a bit awkwardly handled at first. I grew up watching this show, so I never really noticed, but a friend of mine was going through it a year or so ago and she really wasn't feeling the DS9 Klingon stuff in general when it was introduced.

By the end of season five, she conceded that Worf and general Klingon stuff were all fast becoming perfect for DS9. lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,508
Bountiful, Utah
Sorry to drop in here, but I had a question that's been on my mind lately and I wasn't sure where to ask it? It's not super serious.

In Star Trek: Generations, Picard is taken up into the Nexus and asks to be taken back to stop Malcolm McDowell on the planet and that's what happens, but as far as I understand, the Nexus doesn't give someone the power to travel in time. I know it was used that way in the movie so that we could see the consequence of McDowell's plan and then Picard can go back and stop it from happening, but nothing else in the movie suggests that it is possible to use it that way (at least no one else did). I know that all of this happens because Generations is a bad movie, but since that movie is technically "canon," is it possible that everything that happens after Picard talks to Guinan in the Nexus (mainly the events of the other TNG movies) is a hallucination of Picard within the Nexus? Is he still trapped there?
 
Nov 24, 2017
416
Well probably not. Not anymore likely than Riker dying at the end of season 2 of TNG and then the rest of the series is his dream as he slips into the great beyond.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,508
Bountiful, Utah
Well probably not. Not anymore likely than Riker dying at the end of season 2 of TNG and then the rest of the series is his dream as he slips into the great beyond.
It reminds me of Tapestry, except that Q has the power to take Picard through different versions of time and then take him back to the present, but the Nexus does not.

I know it's not all a hallucination within the Nexus, but that part of Generations has always bothered me (moreso than anything else in that movie).
 
Jan 29, 2018
1,301
Sorry to drop in here, but I had a question that's been on my mind lately and I wasn't sure where to ask it? It's not super serious.

In Star Trek: Generations, Picard is taken up into the Nexus and asks to be taken back to stop Malcolm McDowell on the planet and that's what happens, but as far as I understand, the Nexus doesn't give someone the power to travel in time. I know it was used that way in the movie so that we could see the consequence of McDowell's plan and then Picard can go back and stop it from happening, but nothing else in the movie suggests that it is possible to use it that way (at least no one else did). I know that all of this happens because Generations is a bad movie, but since that movie is technically "canon," is it possible that everything that happens after Picard talks to Guinan in the Nexus (mainly the events of the other TNG movies) is a hallucination of Picard within the Nexus? Is he still trapped there?
I always thought it totally allowed travel in time. I took Whoopi literally when she said "time has no meaning here" and that's why from their perspectives Kirk and Picard arrived in the Nexus at the same time.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,463
Yeah the Nexus is literally a time machine that lets you go to any time in your own timeline. It's just that because it gives people their own personal paradise they don't actually want to leave.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,391
Sorry to drop in here, but I had a question that's been on my mind lately and I wasn't sure where to ask it? It's not super serious.

In Star Trek: Generations, Picard is taken up into the Nexus and asks to be taken back to stop Malcolm McDowell on the planet and that's what happens, but as far as I understand, the Nexus doesn't give someone the power to travel in time. I know it was used that way in the movie so that we could see the consequence of McDowell's plan and then Picard can go back and stop it from happening, but nothing else in the movie suggests that it is possible to use it that way (at least no one else did). I know that all of this happens because Generations is a bad movie, but since that movie is technically "canon," is it possible that everything that happens after Picard talks to Guinan in the Nexus (mainly the events of the other TNG movies) is a hallucination of Picard within the Nexus? Is he still trapped there?
I think the idea is that time has no meaning inside the Nexus, therefore anyone who enters the Nexus (at any point in time/space where it exists) can exit the Nexus at any point in time/space where the Nexus exists. There are very few examples because very few people have gotten in there.

Guinan and Malcolm McDowell successfully entered the Nexus, but then they were pulled back out. = No time travel.

Captain Kirk successfully entered the Nexus, so (with Picard's encouragement) he exited the Nexus in the 24th century. = He time traveled forward.

Picard successfully entered the Nexus because he was next to Malcolm McDowell when McDowell worked his plan to re-enter the Nexus. On the advice of Guinan, Picard exited the Nexus (with Captain Kirk) five minutes in the past, because Guinan told Picard that time travel should be easy for anyone who willingly leaves the Nexus. = Picard did just a little bit of time travel backward.

The Guinan that Picard talked to in the Nexus was the Guinan who was inside there for a few moments. She couldn't exit the Nexus because she already did exit/was going to exit. But time is meaningless inside the Nexus, so Guinan's presence inside the Nexus is infinite. As is Kirk's, and Picard's, and Malcolm McDowell's. Malcolm McDowell will always be inside the Nexus, but he can't stand life outside of it, so going back in, or dying, whatever, it's all the same for him. His outside life must end, and his inside life was always infinite and never in question. His plan was pointless, and he should've just killed himself.

Picard exiting the Nexus in the past seems to have pulled Malcolm McDowell's body back out of the Nexus, unless it changed time and prevented him from getting in the second time. But that seems like an irrelevant detail because it doesn't change anything about Malcolm McDowell, except to suggest that maybe he has a second real body loaded into the Nexus, capable of exiting, but Malcolm McDowell would never use it as the Nexus is paradise and he doesn't want to ever leave the Nexus.

But Picard exiting the Nexus in the past seems to have overwritten the past Picard, otherwise there would be two Picards.

And yes, it is possible that the ending of Generations and everything after that movie was all a dream, because Nexus-Picard dreams of starring in bad action movies and "old Picard" TV shows produced by Alex Kurtzman, but nobody likes those "it was all a dream" fan theories.

I always thought it totally allowed travel in time. I took Whoopi literally when she said "time has no meaning here" and that's why from their perspectives Kirk and Picard arrived in the Nexus at the same time.
The Kirk and Picard who left the Nexus are the Kirk and Picard who didn't spend much time in the Nexus, that way they didn't have much of a chance to get addicted to the Nexus and were able to survive on the outside and didn't go all Malcolm McDowell.

But since time is meaningless inside the Nexus, Kirk and Picard are essentially still in there. As is Guinan. As is the cool Malcolm McDowell who first got in there, before he got pulled out and went into crazy withdrawal. And maybe the crazy one too, since he did or didn't get in there a second time. They're all hanging out and partying until infinity.
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,094
Going a few episodes into season 4 of DS9, and it's slowly starting to occur to me that it may end up overtaking TNG. Almost makes me feel guilty, like a betrayal of sorts. :)

The overall cast continues to be fantastic.

The Visitor was amazing.

If I had any gripes at all, it would be a lack of any real development it seems for Quark outside of a brief flash or two. And for Worf, I'm not sure I'm digging his arrival, but I know it's WAY too early for me to really judge that.
We just finished DS9 a few weeks ago, and it quickly moved into my top 5 favorite series of all time, let alone my favorite ST series.

You’re in for a treat the next two seasons. It just gets better and better.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,452
Pretty good Twitter thread:
Same account "fatness is not a choice" lol.

There's a huge amount of erroneous leaps involved in that entire chain of thinking. Yeah, Star Trek is progressive in some ways, but it's on a sliding scale and there's plenty in it that modern progressives would disagree with too (its heroes are members of a military organization). Likewise saying that Star Trek in the 60s advocated Popper's paradox or blindly asserting that Gene Roddenberry would be fighting alt-right people in this day and age seems like a big stretch. Bringing up Roddenberry's views on multiculturalism specifically when it's now lambasted as 'tokenism' kind of proves the point.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,463
Meanwhile Crusher dumps the person she loves because that person happens to be in the body of a female host. :p

Star Trek has a lot of stupid shit too, which is why it has as many conservative fans as liberal ones.
And yet Crusher will happily fuck her dead grandmothers ghost boyfriend.
 
Oct 27, 2017
193
Meanwhile Crusher dumps the person she loves because that person happens to be in the body of a female host. :p

Star Trek has a lot of stupid shit too, which is why it has as many conservative fans as liberal ones.
Funny, I just got to the episode of DS9 where they kinda/sorta flipped it around with Dax and her previous host's marriage. I get it with Crusher though, physical attraction is usually a big part of human relationships, but upon re-watching that episode a while back, it did play really weird. It was a perfect opportunity to play against that mindset, and show humans had evolved beyond that, but Crusher was just straight up "NOPE".

Oh, and that Crusher ghost episode is hilariously bad. I was dreading it coming up on my re-watch, but damn, if it didn't entertain me more knowing what it was going in to it. I was just able to laugh at its stupidity.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,452
I mean, if you're gay you're gay, and if you're straight you're straight. I don't see where Crusher's reticence is weird. The whole 'pursuing relationships regardless of my current form or what I'm going to look like in two days' thing up to that point is wackier to me. It mostly feels like just sci-fi weirdness rather than something with some underlying message it's trying to explore.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,297
I mean, if you're gay you're gay, and if you're straight you're straight. I don't see where Crusher's reticence is weird. The whole 'pursuing relationships regardless of my current form or what I'm going to look like in two days' thing up to that point is wackier to me. It mostly feels like just sci-fi weirdness rather than something with some underlying message it's trying to explore.
Yeah I get it, but it's also a thing where someone chose to write the character this way. It has a big whiff of "no homo".

The Dax story being the tragic gay "I can't quit you" story is also very strange too, because you can tell they thought they were doing something "messagey" but even at the time I found it very problematic.
(But then you get into dumb meta stuff like there's no way they can write a long term relationship for any character on Star Trek because they don't want to pay another actor to show up and all the other dumb TV stuff that gets in the way of storytelling).
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,452
Yeah I get it, but it's also a thing where someone chose to write the character this way. It has a big whiff of "no homo".

The Dax story being the tragic gay "I can't quit you" story is also very strange too, because you can tell they thought they were doing something "messagey" but even at the time I found it very problematic.
(But then you get into dumb meta stuff like there's no way they can write a long term relationship for any character on Star Trek because they don't want to pay another actor to show up and all the other dumb TV stuff that gets in the way of storytelling).
What I think separates the "good" message stories from the "bad" message stories in Star Trek is how specific they feel to the topic at hand. Where I think "Rejoined" works and will still work in the future is that's that it's not really about two gay people while of course being about that. The fact that Jadzia would consider reconnecting with a woman isn't treated as the issue, but the association of Trill is. In another couple of decades assuming current trends contemporary viewers might not really get the resonance to the LGBT struggle if they're not aware of history, but it still has something compelling beyond that in the realm of resuming past relationships and how much you're willing to do for love.

Whereas something like "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" is more didactic and explanatory rather than letting the conflict feel like it's developed naturally and explored. Racism is still an issue in our society, so in theory it should still remain a solid episode, but it feels rather dated compared to the best of Trek's moral episodes, even from The Original Series.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,297
What I think separates the "good" message stories from the "bad" message stories in Star Trek is how specific they feel to the topic at hand. Where I think "Rejoined" works and will still work in the future is that's that it's not really about two gay people while of course being about that. The fact that Jadzia would consider reconnecting with a woman isn't treated as the issue, but the association of Trill is. In another couple of decades assuming current trends contemporary viewers might not really get the resonance to the LGBT struggle if they're not aware of history, but it still has something compelling beyond that in the realm of resuming past relationships and how much you're willing to do for love.

Whereas something like "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" is more didactic and explanatory rather than letting the conflict feel like it's developed naturally and explored. Racism is still an issue in our society, so in theory it should still remain a solid episode, but it feels rather dated compared to the best of Trek's moral episodes, even from The Original Series.
It's funny because I think Rejoined is just as preachy as Let That Be Your Last Battlefield, but with the bonus of absolutely no lesson being learned.
I mean they could have had man play Dax's ex-partner and the story would have been the same, but they used a female character because of the very obvious allegory.

I know it's not fair to compare Orville in 2018 to Trek of the 90s/2000s, but as derivative as Orville can be, they were able to redo some of these Star Trek stories in a manner that is at least more thoughtful, if not more palatable.

Edit: I forgot I found my copy of the DS9 Companion and decided to look up the episode for reference.

 
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Oct 28, 2017
773
I've bought the complete DS9 boxset on "Cyber Monday" and plan to finally watch this series over the holidays.

When growing up, I watched a lot of Star Trek ("Raumschiff Enterprise" in Germany), mostly TNG and VOY. I more or less completely skipped over DS9. The few episodes I catched here and there seemed so utterly boring to me that I never tried to watch it seriously.

Then, after reading sooo much on the internet how it's many peoples' favorite and has this cool Dominion war arc AND having a friend who was always praising it for years... well, here I am, ready to repent and going in with an open mind.

I'm excited.