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Star Trek Franchise |OT| To Boldly Go.....

Oct 25, 2017
5,191
I've bought the complete DS9 boxset on "Cyber Monday" and plan to finally watch this series over the holidays.

When growing up, I watched a lot of Star Trek ("Raumschiff Enterprise" in Germany), mostly TNG and VOY. I more or less completely skipped over DS9. The few episodes I catched here and there seemed so utterly boring to me that I never tried to watch it seriously.

Then, after reading sooo much on the internet how it's many peoples' favorite and has this cool Dominion war arc AND having a friend who was always praising it for years... well, here I am, ready to repent and going in with an open mind.

I'm excited.
DS9 is both familiar and different enough that it'll be interesting to see what you think of it.
In some respects, it's the "Discovery" of the franchise before Discovery came out. Although the DS9 writers had the opportunity to establish this set of characters as diplomats and scientists before turning them into warriors Qapla'ing all over the place.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,090
Missouri
The Year of Hell was legitimately great. It is a shame that they never allowed for long arcs in Voyager because this would have fit it perfectly (I know they wanted to make this a whole season but it got shot down - shame). I think the whole concept of using time as a weapon had even more to offer than just those two episodes but I am glad we got it. Essentially Voyager the movie. I love it whenever Janeway has to become a badass action hero to save her crew. Mulgrew is so good with it.

And hey! Chakotay finally got a good role in the plot!
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,358
The Year of Hell was legitimately great. It is a shame that they never allowed for long arcs in Voyager because this would have fit it perfectly (I know they wanted to make this a whole season but it got shot down - shame). I think the whole concept of using time as a weapon had even more to offer than just those two episodes but I am glad we got it. Essentially Voyager the movie. I love it whenever Janeway has to become a badass action hero to save her crew. Mulgrew is so good with it.

And hey! Chakotay finally got a good role in the plot!
He got more to do in the series than I remembered, but he definitely fades into the background in the final season or two.

I find most of Voyager's two parters to be great. I think the only one I don't like is Workforce.
I like that one too! It's kind of hilarious that SG-1 basically did the same concept a a year earlier (and in some ways more successfully) but it's still an episode concept that needed the extra running time to work and did some interesting work with the Doctor and putting Chakotay, Neelix, and Kim in the rescuing roles rather than the rescued. I really like Janeway's arc in it with Jaffen, and the fact that there are Good Aliens who help out rather than having the Voyager crew single-handedly pull things off.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,333
I like that one too! It's kind of hilarious that SG-1 basically did the same concept a a year earlier (and in some ways more successfully) but it's still an episode concept that needed the extra running time to work and did some interesting work with the Doctor and putting Chakotay, Neelix, and Kim in the rescuing roles rather than the rescued. I really like Janeway's arc in it with Jaffen, and the fact that there are Good Aliens who help out rather than having the Voyager crew single-handedly pull things off.
I think my problem with it is it's the crew basically not being the crew, I don't care about Not-Tom and Not-B'Elanna having some story because it is not Tom and not B'Elanna and it's all meaningless.

The Killing Game does a similar thing with the crew not being themselves, but there is little focus on the fake characters having their own stories, more focus on the villains, plus they snap out of it sooner. I really like The Killing Game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,358
I think my problem with it is it's the crew basically not being the crew, I don't care about Not-Tom and Not-B'Elanna having some story because it is not Tom and not B'Elanna and it's all meaningless.

The Killing Game does a similar thing with the crew not being themselves, but there is little focus on the fake characters having their own stories, more focus on the villains, plus they snap out of it sooner.
Eh, I think it works better than "The Killing Game" (in a character perspective) because the characters still are the crew. Paris is back to his flirtatious ways but he still drops everything else to pursue B'lanna. Seven is focused on efficiency. Janeway still can't not burn replicated food (she gives Kirk a run for his money in being most destructive when using technology.) Ultimately they get out of it because all the memory altering can't change who they are. For Janeway, that's bittersweet in that giving her a 'settled-down' rewrite allowed her to find love, but that's incompatible with her wider goals.
 
Oct 28, 2017
743
I'm currently watching DS9 as planned for the first time. Still season 1.

Just a thought after watching 'Move along Home' (ep 9): Is it just me or is every first contact with a new life form in Trek going the same way where Starfleet bends over backwards to accommodate and not anger the other species, while the aliens usually trample all over them and have no cultural sensitivity whatsoever? It seems the alien species are never in fear of angering the hosts/Federation or breaking cultural rules.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,285
I'm currently watching DS9 as planned for the first time. Still season 1.

Just a thought after watching 'Move along Home' (ep 9): Is it just me or is every first contact with a new life form in Trek going the same way where Starfleet bends over backwards to accommodate and not anger the other species, while the aliens usually trample all over them and have no cultural sensitivity whatsoever? It seems the alien species are never in fear of angering the hosts/Federation or breaking cultural rules.
The Federation are basically trying show that they'll be tolerant of other cultures and traditions and how such hugely different cultures can still work together towards a common goal. It's also a good way for the alien species to determine for themselves just where the limits of what the Federation will stand for actually are, rather than the Federation seeming like condescending pricks by handing over a gigantic book of dos and don'ts.
 
Oct 28, 2017
743
Have you seen the episode? I was more talking about the behavior of the Aliens in Trek, the Federation seems generally fine. It seems there is never an Alien species that does it similar to the Federation (i. e. being sensitive about other cultures)
 
Oct 28, 2017
743
I guess so, but they could do such an alien race for once (just the first contact bit) and maybe let it be just some backdrop for another issue.

Or it could even be similar like it is usually, but not have the aliens be complete dicks when making contact. The issues don't HAVE to come from cultural misunderstandings or aliens imposing their strange culture on the Federation people.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,757
I read an interesting article about the enduring appeal of Agatha Christie and how some of her contemporaries, who were occasionally more progressive and wove some of their personal politics into their novels, have since suffered because what was progressive and forward-looking in one era looks painfully dated and simple-minded in the next. Simply because Christie shied away from overt political and cultural commentary in her books, her books contain fewer potential anachronisms.

The is a phenomenon that obviously hits Star Trek as well: because it often went out of its way to be overtly progressive for its era, it often strikes an off note when viewed through the lens of modern-day sensibilities. They were necessary steps on the way to how we think now, but they also show why we were right not to stop there and declare the job of remaking society finished.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,358
I read an interesting article about the enduring appeal of Agatha Christie and how some of her contemporaries, who were occasionally more progressive and wove some of their personal politics into their novels, have since suffered because what was progressive and forward-looking in one era looks painfully dated and simple-minded in the next. Simply because Christie shied away from overt political and cultural commentary in her books, her books contain fewer potential anachronisms.

The is a phenomenon that obviously hits Star Trek as well: because it often went out of its way to be overtly progressive for its era, it often strikes an off note when viewed through the lens of modern-day sensibilities. They were necessary steps on the way to how we think now, but they also show why we were right not to stop there and declare the job of remaking society finished.
To add to the jewish example in the article, one of the Poirot books has 'he's okay... for a Greek"-type stuff that haven't aged well either. I suppose the more far-afield works also only look as good as they do because they basically ignore anything but the trappings of those exotic places. I do think it's fair to say that heavily didactic work has a limited shelf life compared to more open-ended stuff though. Of course, the problem is when you're writing it you have no clue exactly what's going to age.
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,016
So we just finished Voyager. I didn’t like it at first coming off the brilliant DS9, but man by the end I was enjoying the hell out of it. We even liked Neelix by the time his finale rolled around :) All the series have been great so far, but DS9>TNG>VOY>TOS.

On to Enterprise, the first episode made the best first impression on me out of all the series we watched so far. But that opening theme song . . . Wow.
 
I prefer DS9's. And, heck, The Undiscovered Country if we're counting it as TOS' finale, which we absolutely should because c'mon. >_>

I can see where and why the arguments are made that DS9's finale is more objectively flawed, but I care more about and feel more attached to the Niner team than the crew of any Enterprise and I feel like they mostly received wonderful, sentimental send-offs. Plus I was 11 when "What You Leave Behind" originally aired and that was pretty much the perfect age and to finish off a show with so much packed-in nostalgia that 31-year-old me will stick my fingers in my ears and wag my tongue at anyone who disses it. :P

Oh, unrelated, but a few Discovery season 2 reviews are popping up already. Well, season 2 premiere reviews, anyway. I posted links in the Discovery OT but I'm mobile and my phone is about to die so please seek them out there. lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,402
USA
Kurtzman has stated that he is working on a second animated series for CBS All Access after Lower Decks. The article from THR also stated that the Yeoh series and a Starfleet Academy series are still in the works.

So we could have six Trek shows + the Short Treks on CBS All Access

1. Discovery
2. Lower Decks
3. Picard series
4. Michelle Yeoh Discovery spinoff
5. Starfleet Academy series
6. 2nd animated series

Made a thread -
https://www.resetera.com/threads/th...e-short-treks-coming-to-cbs-all-access.92135/

Also, the fourth Kelvin movie may have been shelved as SJ Clarkson is now directing some of the GoT prequel tv series. According to the Deadline article -

"I hear Clarkson was recruited by HBO for GOT after she recently became available. Earlier this year, Clarkson was the first female director to be tapped to direct a Star Trek movie when she was hired to helm the fourth feature in the current series. That project has since been shelved."

https://deadline.com/2019/01/game-o...to-direct-naomi-ackie-7-more-cast-1202531071/
 
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Nov 24, 2017
365
Bummer about Star Trek 4, if that's true. I liked Beyond and the Kelvin cast. Helmsworth made a great impression in ST2009 too, so I was looking forward to more.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,333
They gonna oversaturate Trek until it has no identity at all. Trek is just a name to stick onto random shit now.

They working on as many shows as it took Trek 50 years to provide.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,358
Yeah didn't anyone learn the lessons of 90s Trek? If these are limited series that run in between the main series that's one thing, but trying to justify AA by flooding it with content seems like a terrible idea.
 
Funnily enough, Game of Thrones is one of my core passions alongside Star Trek, so I side-eyed the news earlier today that SJ Clarkson is directing the prequel's pilot episode. I'm not surprised Deadline is hearing Trek 4 has been shelved.

I enjoyed the Kelvinverse, dammit. But... I'm not above admitting its ritual sacrifice is sort of worth it to me for so much TV content -- hell, any TV content -- to have emerged.

But still. D:
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,891
ATL
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/l...rts-picard-series-reveals-new-details-1174452

Little is known about the plot of series, which has been described as an exploration of the next chapter of Picard's life. Fans have speculated that it will find him serving as an ambassador, just as Leonard Nimoy's Spock did in the later years of his life.

Now, Trek captain Alex Kurtzman is pulling back the curtain on the series revealing that a cataclysmic event depicted in J.J. Abrams' 2009 Star Trek movie impacted Picard in a big way. In that film, written by Kurtzman and former producing partner Roberto Orci, it was revealed that Nimoy's Spock failed to save the Romulan homeworld Romulus from a supernova several years after the events of Nemesis.

Now, Kurtzman — as part of a Creative Space interview with The Hollywood Reporter (posting Wednesday) — is ready to reveal one massive clue about the premise of his CBS All Access Picard series, due in late 2019:"Picard's life was radically altered by the dissolution of the Romulan Empire," Kurtzman tells THR.
They're...they're going to make Picard into Old Luke? Yes, please?

The Picard series will be the first onscreen Trek story set in the aftermath of that event, which would have altered the balance of power in the galaxy. The destruction of Romulus would also have extra resonance for Picard, who has a long and complicated relationship with the Romulans, the alien race that split from Vulcan society thousands of years ago and founded a separate civilization .
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,516
Really glad that's not being ignored. Given Picard's interaction with the Romulans it makes complete sense for that event to impact him in a big way. Can't wait to hear more!

Sucks we're not getting that 4th film though. :(
 
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Oct 25, 2017
3,060
Huh that's pretty awesome, shame about the movies being shelved (who are we kidding, canceled)

Edit: Also new book is out


Already finished one and about to finish another, I still have the Saru one to go through before I get to this one though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,402
USA
Huh that's pretty awesome, shame about the movies being shelved (who are we kidding, canceled)

Edit: Also new book is out


Already finished one and about to finish another, I still have the Saru one to go through before I get to this one though.
I enjoyed the first novel but haven't been able to keep up with them with all of the other stuff I am reading.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,171
They're...they're going to make Picard into Old Luke? Yes, please
I knew it. I fucking knew it. These assholes have zero creativity and can't get rid of their 'deconstruction' boner. Oh, you're going to take an iconic character and turn him into a jaded cynical asshole? How original, how brave, how subversive!
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,757
I knew it. I fucking knew it. These assholes have zero creativity and can't get rid of their 'deconstruction' boner. Oh, you're going to take an iconic character and turn him into a jaded cynical asshole? How original, how brave, how subversive!
What? Nothing in the original article points to this. It might still happen, since the clue is pretty vague, but there are a lot of other options besides "Picard now hates everything because the Romulans are gone."
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,333
I knew it. I fucking knew it. These assholes have zero creativity and can't get rid of their 'deconstruction' boner. Oh, you're going to take an iconic character and turn him into a jaded cynical asshole? How original, how brave, how subversive!
At least this new show will cement that Kirk is the best Captain.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,358
I don’t blame
No need to get worked up this early in the game. Wait for trailers at least.
Yeah.

Not to mention if Stewart has a major role to play in the series than I think it's less likely they'll go a Punished Luke route.

(If they did though, that'd be terrible. We've seen Picard relive his lowest point and see his entire family line extinguished, and he came out on balance 'fine'. I don't see any way you spin a deconstruction of the character that would jive with what we've seen, and there's far less wiggle room for a character we followed for 15 years versus all of three movies.)
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,060
ugh all the 'it's not canon' people are out in full force after all these announcements, I just saw that Discovery can't legally be in the Prime universe for some reason.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,285
Discovery did play fast and loose with canon in a few places, but you certainly can't discount the entire series because of it.
Hopefully they take a little more care with it going forward.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,060
Well they weren't just talking about Disco but all the new shows in general, even though we know almost next to nothing, they somehow can already claim they aren't 'canon'
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,285
I can see an argument even now for why the animated series probably won't be canon, given that it will have a more comedic focus, and even the existing animated series is of dubious canonicity. But the Picard series? I see zero reasons why it wouldn't be canon.