Star Trek Franchise |OT| To Boldly Go.....

Happenstance

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,575
United Kingdom
I wonder how many questions we’ll get answered in the new Picard show. I don’t need a big info dump but I would like to hear about stuff like the fate of Data/B4, if anything ever happened with Picard and Crusher, what happened to the Enterprise E etc.
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,601
Some would say that Discovery IS weak content ....... (and I'd be one of them). Its (many) flaws have often been pointed out by others so I won't reiterate them here, but Discovery really is not good Star Trek, I'd even go so far as to say as it's not Star Trek at all. The last good TV Star Trek was DS9.
I get really frustrated reading these takes, but whatever.. people have a right to their opinions. I think too often people are just looking for something to shit on. Mostly I read these takes on Twitter and it drives me bonkers. People have an idealized version of what Star Trek, Star Wars, etc is in their head and nothing current can measure up to nostalgia.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,689
I get really frustrated reading these takes, but whatever.. people have a right to their opinions. I think too often people are just looking for something to shit on. Mostly I read these takes on Twitter and it drives me bonkers. People have an idealized version of what Star Trek, Star Wars, etc is in their head and nothing current can measure up to nostalgia.
For me it's interesting because at the time of BSG, everyone thought that was where Trek should have gone (particularly because of Moore and his take on why Voyager/Enterprise failed)... that was probably the best time to have an "anti-Trek" Star Trek show. But a decade later, I think the mood changed because the whole anti-hero prestige cable show became a trope/cliche and here we are.
But I think without a question Discovery season 2 is infinitely better than season 1, in part because they decided to try to go back to being about what "Star Trek" is about.

It also doesn't help that there's this other show on the side that is basically serving as a direct example of a reboot that is a modernization of the Star Trek concept.
(And also, on the other side, The Expanse did space politics stuff better than the Klingon/MU stuff from S1)
 

Rassilon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,706
UK
I wonder how many questions we’ll get answered in the new Picard show. I don’t need a big info dump but I would like to hear about stuff like the fate of Data/B4, if anything ever happened with Picard and Crusher, what happened to the Enterprise E etc.
Jean-Luc Junior, did I ever tell you about that time the Enterprise was infected by a space temple and I donned the mask of Korgano to save the ship?
How about that time I entered an extra-dimensional realm and recruited an elderly James T. Kirk to help me punch Soran?
Of course, Kirk died heroically, so naturally I buried him under a small pile of rocks so that the animals might eat his decaying flesh.

Oh hello Data, how goes the Enterprise E?



/

I hope for a healthy balance. It's nice to imply stuff for the audience to imagine freely. But yes, I too want to know what's been going on with everyone over the last few decades... who became captains? Did the events of All Good Things come to pass?
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,601
For me it's interesting because at the time of BSG, everyone thought that was where Trek should have gone (particularly because of Moore and his take on why Voyager/Enterprise failed)... that was probably the best time to have an "anti-Trek" Star Trek show. But a decade later, I think the mood changed because the whole anti-hero prestige cable show became a trope/cliche and here we are.
But I think without a question Discovery season 2 is infinitely better than season 1, in part because they decided to try to go back to being about what "Star Trek" is about.

It also doesn't help that there's this other show on the side that is basically serving as a direct example of a reboot that is a modernization of the Star Trek concept.
(And also, on the other side, The Expanse did space politics stuff better than the Klingon/MU stuff from S1)
I guess it's good that I'm a simpleton. I just enjoy most TV and don't overthink it.

I Googled "anti-hero TV" and honestly haven't seen most of the stuff listed. I watched Breaking Bad, Dexter, and Blacklist. Maybe that's why I'm not tired of it. Haven't watched The Expanse yet, aside from a couple episodes. We couldn't understand Shohreh Aghdashloo's dialogue without having CC on so we got annoyed and watched something else. I really need to get back to it.
 

butalala

Member
Nov 24, 2017
495
David Tennent has a charming podcast where he interviews people. One of the interviewees was Whoopi Goldberg, who says that she hasn't been asked about being part of the Picard show. Guinan is towards the top of the list of TNG characters that I'd like to see return. Her scenes with Stewart are always great. I hope they can find a way to fit her into the story they want to tell.
 

Cheerilee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,490
I get really frustrated reading these takes, but whatever.. people have a right to their opinions. I think too often people are just looking for something to shit on. Mostly I read these takes on Twitter and it drives me bonkers. People have an idealized version of what Star Trek, Star Wars, etc is in their head and nothing current can measure up to nostalgia.
This makes me think of the Transformers franchise.

The original cartoon (I'm skipping the toys and comics here) was tremendously popular, and became a pop-culture icon. Although some people nowadays say that it was never all that great, and that people are looking back it with idealized nostalgia and rose-tinted glasses (I disagree with that, I've checked, and it really was as great as I remember). Then it took a shotgun to kid's childhoods, to mixed response, and followed up with a lackluster season, before ending and fading away.

And then it came back with Beast Wars. Tons of people loved it and even today consider it one of the best pieces of the Transformers franchise, but some people couldn't handle the changes (fans of the series even developed a derisive meme to mock those who disliked the changes).

Beast Wars was followed by Beast Machines, and most people seem to agree that it was terrible and took a dump all over the great Beast Wars, but there are some people who seem to go to bat for it, and argue that it might be the only true art in a franchise full of mass-market mediocrity.

Then there were a number of shows which I never really got into. And Transformers Animated, which drove some people off with some of it's odd animation choices (which I thought were fine), and an annoying human character (which Transformers show doesn't have one?).

And then there was Transformers Prime. The art style turned me off before the first episode even aired, so I skipped it. Until people started saying it was the greatest thing ever. So I gave it a chance and... I can barely even remember what it was about the animation that turned me off. The show's fantastic. Although some people don't like it. I can't understand those people, but I accept that they exist.

Transformers Prime was sadly ended before it's time, and semi-relaunched, but the next thing was absolutely mediocre. Some desperate souls have found some meager bits to enjoy in it, but those people have more fortitude than me.

Jumping to the movies, I thought all of the Michael Bay movies were a crime against humanity, but there are a ton of people who say that the first one was good. How? I just can't see it. Although I do appreciate that we can agree on #2 onwards. Although... somehow the mass of humanity just kept on paying to see them, and apparently enjoyed them.

The latest movie, "Bumblebee", was just sublime though, if you ask me. It was everything I wanted a live action Transformers movie to be. And I'm sure some people might say that's just nostalgia talking, but if you remove all the 80's references and the fanservice intro, there's a solid (if simple) story being competently told in Bumblebee, and that's something that was desperately missing from the previous movies. There's some discussion around Bumblebee as to whether it was actually good or if it was just a breath of fresh air. And I don't know if I care. All I know is that I loved it.


I think something people need to accept about Star Trek and Star Wars is that at this point these franchises will never die. They will constantly be reborn, and maybe they haven't varied as wildly as something like Transformers, but they're fundamentally the same thing. Some changes will always be received positively and some changes will always be received negatively. Maybe that's on the fans, and maybe that's on the current product, but it's going to keep happening, for as long as the franchise is worth money. You might be among the next wave of haters to jump ship, and that's okay.


For the record, I watched the first episode of Discovery, and it didn't feel like it scratched that "Star Trek itch", while it also didn't feel like anything I particularly cared to be watching right now. So I dropped it. And nothing I've seen or heard since then has given me the motivation to overcome the not-insignificant hurdle of trying to watch the show, to give it another chance. Everything I've seen and heard has actually felt like it's confirmed all of my first impressions, and it would be a waste of time for me to try more. Discovery is just not for me.

The Orville is kind of mediocre, from what I've seen of it, but it does feel like it scratches the Star Trek itch, so it has that. And it's kind of amazing to me that parody-Trek could be better Trek than real Trek, but here we are.

I'm significantly excited about the Picard show, but I can't deny that there's a worry in the back of my head that if it's another Discovery, it might be another disappointment.
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,601
For the record, I watched the first episode of Discovery, and it didn't feel like it scratched that "Star Trek itch", while it also didn't feel like anything I particularly cared to be watching right now. So I dropped it. And nothing I've seen or heard since then has given me the motivation to overcome the not-insignificant hurdle of trying to watch the show, to give it another chance. Everything I've seen and heard has actually felt like it's confirmed all of my first impressions, and it would be a waste of time for me to try more. Discovery is just not for me.

The Orville is kind of mediocre, from what I've seen of it, but it does feel like it scratches the Star Trek itch, so it has that. And it's kind of amazing to me that parody-Trek could be better Trek than real Trek, but here we are.

I'm significantly excited about the Picard show, but I can't deny that there's a worry in the back of my head that if it's another Discovery, it might be another disappointment.
I'm old enough to know people that never watched TNG because "it's not Star Trek". I guess the best takeaway is that Star Trek is a different thing for different people. The phenomenon reminds me of music in a way, how some bands evolve over time and click for different people at different phases of their career.

I can stomach the Orville but I only watch when my wife makes me watch. Again, it's fine that some people don't like Disco. It's just a shame that so many people have come to this conclusion by viewing 1 or 0 episodes. I do think they went out of their way to appeal to classic Trek fans in Disco S2, for what it's worth.

I'm glad that I enjoy things for what they are rather than what I want them to be.
 
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DBT85

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,686
For the record, I watched the first episode of Discovery, and it didn't feel like it scratched that "Star Trek itch", while it also didn't feel like anything I particularly cared to be watching right now. So I dropped it. And nothing I've seen or heard since then has given me the motivation to overcome the not-insignificant hurdle of trying to watch the show, to give it another chance. Everything I've seen and heard has actually felt like it's confirmed all of my first impressions, and it would be a waste of time for me to try more. Discovery is just not for me.

The Orville is kind of mediocre, from what I've seen of it, but it does feel like it scratches the Star Trek itch, so it has that. And it's kind of amazing to me that parody-Trek could be better Trek than real Trek, but here we are.
I can't stand Orville but I at least gave it 10 eps to convince me otherwise.

The idea that it is better Trek than Disco continues to puzzle me.
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,913
I can't stand Orville but I at least gave it 10 eps to convince me otherwise.

The idea that it is better Trek than Disco continues to puzzle me.
Because it follows the Trek format as laid out over 50 years and 5 different shows, and Discovery does not. It just uses names of things and is otherwise unrecognisable.
 

Shawndroid

Member
May 24, 2018
464
Canada
Because it follows the Trek format as laid out over 50 years and 5 different shows, and Discovery does not. It just uses names of things and is otherwise unrecognisable.
Sigh. No. DBT85 was talking about quality. It's not nearly as good as any Star Trek show on certain values. The fact that it uses a stale format is irrelevent. Also, look up on message: people complained about TNG not being Trek. Also, you seem to ignore DS9.
 

Cheebo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,924
Ann Arbor, MI
Because it follows the Trek format as laid out over 50 years and 5 different shows, and Discovery does not. It just uses names of things and is otherwise unrecognisable.
This is just completely false. Discovery fits just just fine in with past shows and its storylines fit perfectly in Trek, no better or worse than say TOS or Enterprise.

The show feels VERY Trek this year in style. Season two has been full of classic Trek style episode plot lines.

So far Discovery “feels” more like classic Trek than DS9 did at the time, without a doubt.
 

butalala

Member
Nov 24, 2017
495
Because it follows the Trek format as laid out over 50 years and 5 different shows, and Discovery does not. It just uses names of things and is otherwise unrecognisable.
What's the trek format? 2-3 episode stories like season 4 of enterprise? stand alone episodes like TOS and most of TNG? Season-long serialized storytelling like DS9 and season 3 of enterprise? Action movies like Star Trek 09 and First Contact? Comedy movies like The Voyage Home? Political thrillers like The Undiscovered Country? Star Trek is flexible, and it has to be or it wouldn't be around 50 years after "Where No Man Has Gone Before." Discovery is Star Trek whether you like it or not.
 

Cheebo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,924
Ann Arbor, MI
I really wish you would watch the show with an open mind StallionDan. It's really good, and in this season in particular been full of classic pure Star Trek storylines and character arcs embracing the hope and future of humankind. You've seemed to be very adamantly against everything about it and refuse to even consider it canon.

Star Trek is all about being optimistic about the future, I really wish you could approach the show with that same sort of worldview. Closing yourself off to what is allowed to count as "real" Star Trek seems overly negative for such a hopeful franchise.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
3,556
Watched Encounter at Farpoint this morning, funny that Troi starts off wearing a standard starfleet uniform, also I noticed that somewhere between TNG and Voyager they switched the blue uniform to green.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,556
Huh? It was never green, it sometimes shifted to look a bit more teal than blue but that was the fabrics not taking the dye as intended, the intention was always for the science uniforms to be blue.
I know the lighting doesn't help because even in Farpoint sometimes it looked teal but by Voyager it always looked teal

 

butalala

Member
Nov 24, 2017
495
Changes in Starfleet uniforms are well-documented on Ex Astris Scientia.

What's everyone's favorite? I'm partial to TOS, but the later DS9 uniforms are cool too. I could never tell if they were supposed to be one piece or two piece.
 

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,877
Changes in Starfleet uniforms are well-documented on Ex Astris Scientia.

What's everyone's favorite? I'm partial to TOS, but the later DS9 uniforms are cool too. I could never tell if they were supposed to be one piece or two piece.
The burgundy glory of the first six films, and immediate pre-TNG era. It feels like... well, a uniform, while also having both a distinct colour and uncommon design vs many stock sci-fi uniforms. It's also, I have increasingly realised, probably the most generous uniform in terms of differing builds; a lot of them don't really work if you're not adequately skinny.
 

Lagamorph

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,755
I can't decide which uniform was worst, but it's a toss up between Star Trek TMP and Discovery for me.


What's weird though is just how long the Wrath of Khan uniforms lasted.
You're talking about them lasting from Wrath of Khan right up to when the Enterprise C was destroyed at the very least, that's 2285 at the latest until at least 2344, longer than any other Uniform.
 

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,877
I can't decide which uniform was worst, but it's a toss up between Star Trek TMP and Discovery for me.


What's weird though is just how long the Wrath of Khan uniforms lasted.
You're talking about them lasting from Wrath of Khan right up to when the Enterprise C was destroyed at the very least, that's 2285 at the latest until at least 2344, longer than any other Uniform.
Even if you were to be strict and say that oh, they changed around the Enterprise C era to drop the belts and go longer, they were still in use when Picard graduated from the academy in 2327. Meanwhile by the TNG era the Fashion Corps is having the run of the place.
 

Pluto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,032

Cheerilee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,490
Watched Encounter at Farpoint this morning, funny that Troi starts off wearing a standard starfleet uniform,
Marina Sirtis tells the costume story.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6wj738

(Basically, Sirtis got hired, but the producers told her she was too fat for Hollywood. They said her legs were fine, so they put her in a cheerleader outfit. Then Troi's IQ dropped like a rock, because sexy can't be smart. Then she had a series of dresses she hated, until Ron Moore put her into the regular uniform, and everyone loved it, and suddenly her IQ came back.)
 

DBT85

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,686
What's Picard going to have to be to qualify as "being trek" given that he's probably not off being a captain any more and possibly isn't even still in starfleet?
 

butalala

Member
Nov 24, 2017
495
I haven't seen s2 of disco yet, but that uniform is cool. My continuity nerd side wishes that the uniform was more similar to the uniform in "The Cage" but whatever. The new uniforms in ST Beyond are pretty cool too.

What's Picard going to have to be to qualify as "being trek" given that he's probably not off being a captain any more and possibly isn't even still in starfleet?
Let's not go down that road again, at least for now.

I don't get the love for these uniforms, they look stuffy, uncomfortable and way too formal for everyday use.

I like them because they look a bit more military.

But they're still on the blue side for me, I never saw them as green.
I see green sometimes. Not as blue as the TNG medical/science gear.
 

Lagamorph

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,755
I think the TOS (2-6) movie uniforms are quite militaristic, which makes sense given the period that Starfleet and the Federation were going through at the time due to increasing tensions with the Klingons and Romulans, and Starfleet gradually shifting towards being a more military organisation as a result. That period came to an end with the loss of the Enterprise C as tensions with the Klingons drastically reduced and the Federation/Klingon alliance formed and the Romulans withdrew inwards as a result.
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,913
Sigh. No. DBT85 was talking about quality. It's not nearly as good as any Star Trek show on certain values. The fact that it uses a stale format is irrelevent. Also, look up on message: people complained about TNG not being Trek. Also, you seem to ignore DS9.
I've not ignored DS9, the format I was talking about is how the typical stories play out. Take STDs last episode, it's actions upon actions upon actions with most dialogue devoted to character drama and not the actions themselves.

Trek format doesn't do that. What they did to the Kelpians...that would have been either most of the episode discussing if it right or wrong and the outcomes, then at the end it may or may not be done. Or...the episode starts out with the decision made and enacted, but the episode dealing with the outcome, mostly by talking.

How long do you think it took them to decide in STD? You've all seen the episode I assume so can you remember? From the moment it was suggested to discussing the outcome, right or wrongs, to actually "Yes, let's definitely do that"? 61 seconds, to something that breaks the prime directive no less.

STD is an action show, and Trek shows aren't that. Even the most heavy war and ship battle episodes are still mostly talking about actions in Trek. Favour the Bold/Sacrifice of Angels, across those two episodes is only 5 and a half minutes of action (ship and ground combined), the rest is talking, planning, pros and cons etc. Even on the enemy side. And yeah, character drama dialogue, but it doesn't replace the other stuff, there is so little actual action it gets more than 61 seconds for that stuff.

Why is it so hard to just say you like STD but it nothing like Trek? I do, it's an entertaining show even if poor Trek. Is it some weird Stanning thing where you need proclaim it is Trek to justify your like of it?
 

Cheebo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,924
Ann Arbor, MI
Why is it so hard to just say you like STD but it nothing like Trek? I do, it's an entertaining show even if poor Trek. Is it some weird Stanning thing where you need proclaim it is Trek to justify your like of it?
Dude, its a Star Trek Community thread. Can you please stop?

It's a Star Trek show. Stop insisting every single time the latest Star Trek show is being discussed in the Star Trek thread that it's "not Star Trek". You keep doing this over and over and over. This attitude that we must come to your side and admit its not Star Trek is just...insane.

This is a Star Trek Community thread for Trek fans, all you keep doing is trolling and halting any discussion of Discovery in its tracks. And you keep using the trollish "STD" despite multiple people asking you to stop as well.

It's not "stanning" to call it Star Trek! It is literally a Star Trek show.

I am pretty sure no one in this thread is enjoying the endless shitposting you keep doing every time Discovery is brought up so I am really not sure why you keep doing it. People like to talk about the newest Star Trek show in the Star Trek community thread, and every time someone tries to you either come in and say either its not canon or that it's not actually Star Trek.
 
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StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,913
Dude, its a Star Trek Community thread. Can you please stop?

It's a Star Trek show. Stop insisting every single time the latest Star Trek show is being discussed in the Star Trek thread that it's "not Star Trek". You keep doing this over and over and over. This attitude that we must come to your side and admit its not Star Trek is just...insane.

This is a Star Trek Community thread for Trek fans, all you keep doing is trolling and halting any discussion of Discovery in its tracks. And you keep using the trollish "STD" despite multiple people asking you to stop as well.

It's not "stanning" to call it Star Trek! It is literally a Star Trek show.

I am pretty sure no one in this thread is enjoying the endless shitposting you keep doing every time Discovery is brought up so I am really not sure why you keep doing it. People like to talk about the newest Star Trek show in the Star Trek community thread, and every time someone tries to you either come in and say either its not canon or that it's not actually Star Trek.
Wow, zero argument and all personal attack. Bravo.

I was replying to a post that someone else made, so don't go accusing me of bringing it up. Perhaps join the discussion or stay quiet? Everytime the discussion heads this way you reply with personal attacks, perhaps get some real arguments before posting next time. Oh and "It's literally a Star Trek show", yeah no shit, way to completely miss the point of discussion.

Also, receipts of me keep bring this up please, because it been discussed in the past but not for a long time.

I, like many others type how I talk, and it simply easier to say STD.
DSC, DISC, DIS, DISCO etc just sound weird saying them aloud and easily confusing in sentences, and Discovery more syllables than STD.
 
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Spectromixer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,979
USA
I've not ignored DS9, the format I was talking about is how the typical stories play out. Take STDs last episode, it's actions upon actions upon actions with most dialogue devoted to character drama and not the actions themselves.

Trek format doesn't do that. What they did to the Kelpians...that would have been either most of the episode discussing if it right or wrong and the outcomes, then at the end it may or may not be done. Or...the episode starts out with the decision made and enacted, but the episode dealing with the outcome, mostly by talking.

How long do you think it took them to decide in STD? You've all seen the episode I assume so can you remember? From the moment it was suggested to discussing the outcome, right or wrongs, to actually "Yes, let's definitely do that"? 61 seconds, to something that breaks the prime directive no less.

STD is an action show, and Trek shows aren't that. Even the most heavy war and ship battle episodes are still mostly talking about actions in Trek. Favour the Bold/Sacrifice of Angels, across those two episodes is only 5 and a half minutes of action (ship and ground combined), the rest is talking, planning, pros and cons etc. Even on the enemy side. And yeah, character drama dialogue, but it doesn't replace the other stuff, there is so little actual action it gets more than 61 seconds for that stuff.

Why is it so hard to just say you like STD but it nothing like Trek? I do, it's an entertaining show even if poor Trek. Is it some weird Stanning thing where you need proclaim it is Trek to justify your like of it?
Discovery is the new Trek. This is the beginning of a new era of Tre. We are comparing the old era of Star Trek to the new one, which is unfair. This new Trek is written by new people, many who grew up watching TNG as kids. They have been influenced by many other movies and tv series, maybe even the Kevlin films.

Old trek would have weighed the consequences on what was done to the Kelpians a lot longer, but it have slowed the drama down considerably. That is not what the new Trek is about anymore.

Discovery is Star Trek, it has Star Trek in the title, and so will the Section 31 show, the Picard show, and whatever else may be coming to CBS All Access.