Star Trek Franchise |OT| To Boldly Go.....

Cheerilee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,490
Was Voyager a top of the line ship when it got lost? I think so right, Janeway was it's first captain right?
Brand new ship, in a relatively new design (Intrepid Class). Janeway was USS Voyager's first Captain. The mission to hunt down Chakotay was literally USS Voyager's first ever mission. It got lost in the Delta Quadrant, straight out of spacedock. It might have set a record for fastest disaster.

USS Voyager was not the first ship in that new design (that would logically be the USS Intrepid), but it was fairly close to it. It was probably at least in the very first batch of production-line models, after the prototype. It might have been the first production-line model.

It included a lot of bleeding-edge tech, like the EMH.
 

Lagamorph

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,755
Was Voyager a top of the line ship when it got lost? I think so right, Janeway was it's first captain right?
Yeah, Voyager, and the Intrepid Class in general, was a brand new line of ships, outfitted with the latest and greatest in computer tech (like bio neural gel packs) and warp drive.
I think the folding nacelles were supposed to be a test of a new system to eliminate the subspace damage of travelling faster than Warp 5, until a new solution was found that could be implemented without the need.
 

Lagamorph

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,755
Ok I figured, so makes some sense that Voyager could stand up to the borg, at least initially without more enhancements
By the time Voyager was going truly up against the Borg it had enhancements all over the place with mixtures of alien, future and Borg upgrades, along with whatever inspiration the crew could get from scans of those.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,555
By the time Voyager was going truly up against the Borg it had enhancements all over the place with mixtures of alien, future and Borg upgrades, along with whatever inspiration the crew could get from scans of those.
Yeah, I don't know why people have such a problem with Voyager fighting the borg then, Starfleet would obviously make newer ships able to withstand at least single attacks. It's not like the Enterprise didn't survive a few fights.
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,911
It always bothered me Voyager never used its aeroshuttle. They even did some CGI for it leaving Voyager in one episode, but apparently it was cut because Insurrection was the upcoming movie and they thought it would detract from the Captain's Yacht reveal.
 
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Happenstance

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,575
United Kingdom
It's a shame it never got used. As we know, Voyager only ever had a set amount of shuttles and that number never deviated so when they lost one it was lost for good.....
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,911
They built the Delta Flyer in like a week, and that was a brand new design with multiple experimental tech. The basic ass shuttles shouldn't be any problem to build.
 

Lagamorph

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,755
Regular shuttles (from TNG onwards at least) always struck me as somewhat 'flat pack'. So basically a ship could use its Industrial replicators to create all the parts from a standard blueprint and the Engineering team just need to bolt them together.

That would allow long range explorer ships to not only replace lost shuttles easily, but when a new/upgraded design of shuttle is developed then ships can update themselves rather than a production facility having to make hundreds of thousands of shuttles and every ship in the fleet having to come back to a Starbase just to get new shuttles.
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,899
Yeah, and easily replicatable shuttles makes sense on any ship. Except Voyager of course, with all their power and replicator issues.
 

butalala

Member
Nov 24, 2017
495
The idea of easily replicated shuttles from Ikea (Schøtl, Bin# 366-000-221 also available in Walnut) makes a lot of sense. It's too bad that the writers didn't have the idea.
 

chrominance

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
https://deadline.com/2019/03/santiago-cabrera-michelle-hurdcast-star-trek-jean-luc-picard-series-cbs-all-access-1202569185/

No details are being revealed about the characters Cabrera and Hurd are playing, but I hear Cabrera will play the pilot of Picard’s ship who also is a skillful thief. Hurd is playing a former intelligence officer who is a brilliant analyst with a terrific memory that has not been affected by her drug and alcohol abuse.

That sounds fucking awful.
Why does Star Trek suddenly have to be all dark and full of tragedy?
To be honest, it makes those characters sound like they're with the Maquis. I mean, they're almost certainly not, the politics have completely changed, but I could absolutely see how those two would've fit into a Maquis crew.

The most interesting tidbit from all of that, honestly, is that

Picard has a ship.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,156
How does everyone here feel about Enterprise? I know it wasn't very well-received in general but I'm halfway through season 3 and have mostly enjoyed it. Season 3 has been kind of a low point for me though, the whole Xindi thing is just not very interesting despite (or maybe because of?) how far they raise the stakes.
 

Lagamorph

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,755
Honestly, I really liked Enterprise. For all the crap it gets sometimes they did a pretty damn good job of managing to stick within established Star Trek canon while doing their own thing.

Also the NX-01 is one of my favourite ship designs.
 

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,877
The Demons/Terra Prime two-parter is legitimately one of the best Trek stories and, frustratingly, now more relevant than ever.
 

Lagamorph

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,755
Enterprise is probably the best of every Season 1 opener of Star Trek too for me.

Encounter at Farpoint was.....yeah, it hasn't aged at all well.
Emissary was definitely an improvement over Encounter at Farpoint, but it still suffers from the "A lot of nothing interspersed with bits of something" that the early seasons of DS9 suffer with.
Caretaker was pretty good, quite a bit more focused than the previous opening episodes.
Enterprise though, for the first time, they seemed to actually have a plan of what they were going to be doing forward.
 

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,877
Enterprise is probably the best of every Season 1 opener of Star Trek too for me.

Encounter at Farpoint was.....yeah, it hasn't aged at all well.
Emissary was definitely an improvement over Encounter at Farpoint, but it still suffers from the "A lot of nothing interspersed with bits of something" that the early seasons of DS9 suffer with.
Caretaker was pretty good, quite a bit more focused than the previous opening episodes.
Enterprise though, for the first time, they seemed to actually have a plan of what they were going to be doing forward.
Kinda ironic when you consider they themselves had no idea who Future Guy was meant to be.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,156
I think the most surprising part of Enterprise is that I really love Trip. And Dr Phlox

It and Voyager showed me pretty clearly how much I love having Vulcans around. T'Pol isn't always used well but it feels right having a Vulcans on board.
 
Oct 26, 2017
856
Enterprise is probably the best of every Season 1 opener of Star Trek too for me.

Encounter at Farpoint was.....yeah, it hasn't aged at all well.
Emissary was definitely an improvement over Encounter at Farpoint, but it still suffers from the "A lot of nothing interspersed with bits of something" that the early seasons of DS9 suffer with.
Caretaker was pretty good, quite a bit more focused than the previous opening episodes.
Enterprise though, for the first time, they seemed to actually have a plan of what they were going to be doing forward.
Encounter at Farpoint kind of sucks.
Emissary is pretty good.
Caretaker probably could have been the best pilot with minor tweaks. Overall it was still pretty good, but they really should have wrote around the obvious 'well why not a time bomb?' question. And the show's premise would have been far more interesting had the Maquis not lost their ship and instantly integrated into the crew.
Broken Bow I barely remember... uhhh... crashed Klingons.... or something? It just felt old and tired to me. I'll have to rewatch Ent at some point to see if my feelings toward it change but I highly doubt it. I was looking forward to Scott Bakula too and he just didn't cut it as a Star Trek capn. Oh well.
 

Lagamorph

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,755
Encounter at Farpoint kind of sucks.
Emissary is pretty good.
Caretaker probably could have been the best pilot with minor tweaks. Overall it was still pretty good, but they really should have wrote around the obvious 'well why not a time bomb?' question. And the show's premise would have been far more interesting had the Maquis not lost their ship and instantly integrated into the crew.
Broken Bow I barely remember... uhhh... crashed Klingons.... or something? It just felt old and tired to me. I'll have to rewatch Ent at some point to see if my feelings toward it change but I highly doubt it. I was looking forward to Scott Bakula too and he just didn't cut it as a Star Trek capn. Oh well.
Why not a time bomb was because there was a serious risk of the Kazon disarming it.
Not to mention Tuvok needed several hours to activate the mechanism to send Voyager home, during which the Kazon had multiple more ships on the way meaning Voyager would have been overwhelmed long before they could send themselves home. It's why I always got annoyed at the maquis blaming Janeway for stranding them, she had no choice. It was either flee and let the Kazon have the array, or destroy the array and flee. Either way, Voyager wasn't getting home. If Voyager had tried to stay and use the array then the Kazon would absolutely have boarded and captured Voyager and either killed or enslaved both the Starfleet and Maquis crews.

As for Broken Bow it was the first pilot that actually captured that sense of awe and wonder that I love about Star Trek. The launching of the NX-01 was one of my favourite moments in any series.
 

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,877
Archer. It was going to be Archer. How they get targeted though, I dunno.


As I understand it, that's the idea they settled on later, where initially Future Guy was purely existent as a plot device. Looking it up on Memory Alpha, it seems like Braga in particular has gone back and forth on whether or not it was 'always' the idea.
 

DBT85

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,686
How does everyone here feel about Enterprise? I know it wasn't very well-received in general but I'm halfway through season 3 and have mostly enjoyed it. Season 3 has been kind of a low point for me though, the whole Xindi thing is just not very interesting despite (or maybe because of?) how far they raise the stakes.
Its great. Except the last episode.
 

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,877
So I just found out (rather later by a few weeks) that Star Trek Online, along with Neverwinter, will be shutting down the Foundry on April 11th. That's really kind of a shame to me; while I was an infrequent user in terms of actually making shit, it was still fun to have at least some means of creating your own Star Trek content (even if the tools were increasingly troublesome to work with; this actually plays a part). Plus, it meant that in the months between major content updates, there was stuff to do without necessarily just being repeats of existing content.

Unfortunately, it's a classic case of the devs who were originally responsible for it having moved on from the company, and it's just proven increasingly troublesome to try and keep the system up to date; unfortunately that meant it was taking a disproportionate amount of resources away from the rest of the game, and thus the decision was taken to focus on the core game, even if it meant shutting down the Foundry as a result.

Sad, but I can get that.
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,911
Was never a thing on console anyway. Also STO is trash outside of doing story missions, which are bad fanfiction quality stories at best.
 
Oct 26, 2017
856
Why not a time bomb was because there was a serious risk of the Kazon disarming it.
Not to mention Tuvok needed several hours to activate the mechanism to send Voyager home, during which the Kazon had multiple more ships on the way meaning Voyager would have been overwhelmed long before they could send themselves home. It's why I always got annoyed at the maquis blaming Janeway for stranding them, she had no choice. It was either flee and let the Kazon have the array, or destroy the array and flee. Either way, Voyager wasn't getting home. If Voyager had tried to stay and use the array then the Kazon would absolutely have boarded and captured Voyager and either killed or enslaved both the Starfleet and Maquis crews.
I had to give it a rewatch, on second thought I don't think I actually ever had rewatched it after its original air date. Anyway, your take doesn't add up. The threat of the Kazon Ooga Booga getting reinforcements doesn't come up until after Tuvok and Janeway decide not to use the array, and during that whole conversation they aren't keeping up with Voyager's tactical situation. And Tuvok clearly thinks that they can in fact use the array. There's absolutely nothing to indicate that they can't hold out that long. The only concern they had while debating the issue was that once they left, the Boogas would get the array.

And the Kazon obviously wouldn't have just captured and enslaved them, because they made zero attempt to do so after the array was destroyed, even though Voyager had water-making capabilities which were apparently the holy grail for them. Voyager didn't run away at the end of the episode. The ooga booga did.

It was really sloppy storytelling.

A couple of other things that jumped out me while watching it...

Wow did Paris go in hard with his "Hey you Indian can't you turn into a fucking bird or some shit?". Seemed way more racist than I'd expect from 1995 Star Trek.

Neelix rescuing Kes was crazy too. That gremlin pretty much bamboozled Janeway and turned a first contact into a complete shitshow. Along with basically telling the Kazon, "hey you want infinite water, capture their ship!" Not only does Janeway not say shit about it, she just says fuck it and completely goes along with his play. No "what are you doing Neelix?!?", she just proceeds to keep treating him like a crew member for the entirety of the episode. And for good measure he zaps the water containers as a final fuck you. What? Ok, I can see the vague intent of that bit was for the Kazon to have to scramble to save as much water as possible thus allowing for their escape but... they had their phasers and the Kazon had dropped their weapons so..... just beam out?

Last thought... this really should have been the Tom Riker show. A little exposition to get the casuals on board with exactly who Tom is, Tom(renamed of course) Paris and Janeway penal colony conversation is an easy and natural place, or maybe the show starts with his Cardassian jailbreak. They could have used a DS9 for the jailbreak part where Kira makes good on her promise and gets him out and Voyager just starts with Tom back up to his old Maquis tricks. Anyway it's not hard to fit him in there. And the regular acting work would've saved us from Fat Riker in Nemesis where he fights some Reman in a comically lethargic action scene. Incidentally I haven't seen Nemesis since premier day in the theater, and that was the part that stuck most in my memory in a movie that was pretty bad across the board. Frakes didn't put in the treadmill time.
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,911
The Kazon that retreat are the the ones left from the current battle in small ships, they had reinforcements on the way. Once the Array was destroyed there was no reason to stick around because Voyager was a superior force so it makes sense to regroup.

Tuvok says it will take hours just to activate the transporter system, given they also need time to understand how to use it, the Kazon reinforcements would arrive. Plus this is all before the Array is damaged, so they would also need time to learn and repair this alien station.

Voyager absolutely did not have time to stick about.

Tom Riker didn't have his DS9 episode by this point. He wasn't a criminal yet.
 

butalala

Member
Nov 24, 2017
495
Paris was supposed to be an edgy, Han Solo type character. I guess racist comments about Chakotay was the best they could come up with. A few years later and he's the #1 authority in 1950's TV. So edgy!
 
Oct 26, 2017
856
The Kazon that retreat are the the ones left from the current battle in small ships, they had reinforcements on the way. Once the Array was destroyed there was no reason to stick around because Voyager was a superior force so it makes sense to regroup.
Voyager as you said was a superior force, so it would have made sense for them to retreat while the array was still somewhat intact, as they wouldn't be able to board. Because they don't have transporters. And Voyager can blow them up.
Tuvok says it will take hours just to activate the transporter system, given they also need time to understand how to use it, the Kazon reinforcements would arrive. Plus this is all before the Array is damaged, so they would also need time to learn and repair this alien station.
It's not presented like that at all. The array gets damaged, destroying the self-destruct mechanism. But Tuvok is like "shall I activate the program to get us back" which implies that the functionality is somehow still intact. Janeway is all nawww I really want to violate the prime directive on the Ocampas' behalf. Because I wuv them vewy much.. That's the scene, Tuvok knows how to get them home, and Janeway tries to do the "right" thing and doesn't take the easy way home.

The array being damaged in the fight and not being operable in any sort of decent timeframe makes sense. And that should have been what they went with. Tuvok should have said that it would take months to repair the damage or something. But that robs Janeway of her big moment of sacrifice to save the Ocampa, which circles back around to the whole thing not making sense and why not a time bomb.
Voyager absolutely did not have time to stick about.
Why not? The Kazon left were as you said no threat, and reinforcements weren't there yet. They could always blow the array as the reinforcements got there and worked the problem until the very last moment. Besides, they can run away at warp 9.975. If you can go warp 9.975 then you could hop over to another system rather quickly and get lots and lots of water, ergo the Kazon can't go anywhere near warp 9.975 and thus Voyager could easily get away at the last moment!
Tom Riker didn't have his DS9 episode by this point. He wasn't a criminal yet.
Tom Riker's DS9 episode aired about 2 months beforehand. As it happens I ended up rewatching Caretaker just one episode late in my DS9 rewatch. The timing would have been pretty good as far as core Trekkies having Tom Riker on the mind.

Oh one more thought, Janeway went really easy on the Caretaker especially granting it its last wish considering IT MURDERED HER CREWMEN INCLUDING THE FIRST OFFICER AND CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER WTF?!?!?
 

Cheerilee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,490
Wow did Paris go in hard with his "Hey you Indian can't you turn into a fucking bird or some shit?". Seemed way more racist than I'd expect from 1995 Star Trek.
Voyager employed a "Native American culture consultant" named "Jamake Highwater", who was actually a white guy named Jackie Marks who made a living by wearing redface, claiming to be Native American, and writing books about Native American culture, while he knew absolutely nothing about real-life Native Americans and just went all-in on the stereotypical Native American tropes.

He was exposed as a fraud a decade before Star Trek Voyager, but the Voyager producers didn't get the memo, so they hired him to teach them about Native Americans.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,555
Voyager employed a "Native American culture consultant" named "Jamake Highwater", who was actually a white guy named Jackie Marks who made a living by wearing redface, claiming to be Native American, and writing books about Native American culture, while he knew absolutely nothing about real-life Native Americans and just went all-in on the stereotypical Native American tropes.

He was exposed as a fraud a decade before Star Trek Voyager, but the Voyager producers didn't get the memo, so they hired him to teach them about Native Americans.
A for effort I guess....
 

Rodney McKay

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,228
I was on Engadget and they had an article about someone who had used an AI program to up the resolution of Deep Space Nine episodes.

Wouldn't be surprised if it's been posted here, but I hadn't seen it yet and was pretty impressed with it. Definite improvement.

 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,689
Maybe I'm blind but I don't really see a different like I do with the TNG remasters. Maybe it's just youtube compression.
 

Rodney McKay

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,228
Maybe I'm blind but I don't really see a different like I do with the TNG remasters. Maybe it's just youtube compression.
It's definitely nowhere near that good, those were full on studio remasters I belive.

This is just running the SD videos through a program that converts it to a higher resolution, I'm not sure if it's the exact same program, but there's the same thing that people are doing to old video game textures to make them look better at higher resolutions.