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Star Trek Franchise |OT| To Boldly Go.....

Oct 25, 2017
3,540
I almost got excited about this, because I could live that long. But then I remembered Trek takes place in a totally alternative universe where, for example, the Eugenics Wars were fought in the 1990s. Heck, they even kept that timeline (instead of bumping it up) for NuTrek.
Doesn't Voyager change the timeline though with Future's End. Janeway even says a line like "None of this technology should exist, the computer revolution wasn't meant to happen". That episode takes place right in the middle of what should have been the eugenics war.
 
Aug 22, 2018
1,970
Doesn't Voyager change the timeline though with Future's End. Janeway even says a line like "None of this technology should exist, the computer revolution wasn't meant to happen". That episode takes place right in the middle of what should have been the eugenics war.
Interesting. You might be right. But if so, then all that apparently somehow got erased because everything is back to ToS timeline with NuTrek.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,388
Watching TOS, Trouble with Tribbles, Spock says they'll send the guy to 20 years to a rehabilitation colony...but is it really rehabilitation if they are stuck there for 20 years? Shouldn't it depend on how long it takes for you to be 'rehabilitated'? Also I'd hate to think what rehabilitation consists of.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,403
Watching TOS, Trouble with Tribbles, Spock says they'll send the guy to 20 years to a rehabilitation colony...but is it really rehabilitation if they are stuck there for 20 years? Shouldn't it depend on how long it takes for you to be 'rehabilitated'? Also I'd hate to think what rehabilitation consists of.
Glancing at a script for the episode, Kirk brings up the subject of "the penalty" for transporting harmful animals, and Spock informs him that "the penalty" is 20 years in a rehabilitation colony. Both Kirk and Spock seem to be in agreement that it's a penalty, not medical/psychological help.

Which suggests that it's not so much a rehab colony as it is a penal colony. Or perhaps it's a rehab colony that has the ability to double as a penal colony. I suspect that it's a jail that has a strong focus on rehab, and if you get rehabilitated, then you're still in jail for the rest of your sentence but at least you're rehabilitated now and unlikely to return, and if you don't get rehabilitated, then at least they'll let you out when your time is served instead of keeping you until you break. Also, it's probably socially-helpful for an ex-con to say they just got out of rehab, rather than saying they just got out of jail. Regardless, it seems that they have a fixed-sentence punishment, which Kirk could choose or choose not to inflict on Cyrano Jones, if Kirk (somewhat arbitrarily) decides that the punishment should apply to him.

Spock calculates that the cleanup would take 17.9 years, which Jones is pressured to "choose voluntarily" instead, as both Kirk and Spock knew he would, because apparently cleaning up Tribbles for 18 years is more pleasant than the "rehabilitation colony" experience, either that or 2.1 years of freedom really means a lot to these people.

(Also, the "rehabilitation colony" is probably just jail, but Gene Roddenberry didn't like the idea of jail, so he quickly renamed it to something better, without deeply and fundamentally changing it. He probably didn't even have a clear idea as to how a rehab colony would work better in society than a penal colony, but he wishes it could, and it's his fiction, so in his world we can assume that it exists and it works.)
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,388
Glancing at a script for the episode, Kirk brings up the subject of "the penalty" for transporting harmful animals, and Spock informs him that "the penalty" is 20 years in a rehabilitation colony. Both Kirk and Spock seem to be in agreement that it's a penalty, not medical/psychological help.

Which suggests that it's not so much a rehab colony as it is a penal colony. Or perhaps it's a rehab colony that has the ability to double as a penal colony. I suspect that it's a jail that has a strong focus on rehab, and if you get rehabilitated, then you're still in jail for the rest of your sentence but at least you're rehabilitated now and unlikely to return, and if you don't get rehabilitated, then at least they'll let you out when your time is served instead of keeping you until you break. Also, it's probably socially-helpful for an ex-con to say they just got out of rehab, rather than saying they just got out of jail. Regardless, it seems that they have a fixed-sentence punishment, which Kirk could choose or choose not to inflict on Cyrano Jones, if Kirk (somewhat arbitrarily) decides that the punishment should apply to him.

Spock calculates that the cleanup would take 17.9 years, which Jones is pressured to "choose voluntarily" instead, as both Kirk and Spock knew he would, because apparently cleaning up Tribbles for 18 years is more pleasant than the "rehabilitation colony" experience, either that or 2.1 years of freedom really means a lot to these people.

(Also, the "rehabilitation colony" is probably just jail, but Gene Roddenberry didn't like the idea of jail, so he quickly renamed it to something better, without deeply and fundamentally changing it. He probably didn't even have a clear idea as to how a rehab colony would work better in society than a penal colony, but he wishes it could, and it's his fiction, so in his world we can assume that it exists and it works.)
Yeah that makes sense, also just as a side note I love your long detailed posts, even when you include your head canon lol I really appreciate them.
 

Poodlestrike

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,552
Glancing at a script for the episode, Kirk brings up the subject of "the penalty" for transporting harmful animals, and Spock informs him that "the penalty" is 20 years in a rehabilitation colony. Both Kirk and Spock seem to be in agreement that it's a penalty, not medical/psychological help.

Which suggests that it's not so much a rehab colony as it is a penal colony. Or perhaps it's a rehab colony that has the ability to double as a penal colony. I suspect that it's a jail that has a strong focus on rehab, and if you get rehabilitated, then you're still in jail for the rest of your sentence but at least you're rehabilitated now and unlikely to return, and if you don't get rehabilitated, then at least they'll let you out when your time is served instead of keeping you until you break. Also, it's probably socially-helpful for an ex-con to say they just got out of rehab, rather than saying they just got out of jail. Regardless, it seems that they have a fixed-sentence punishment, which Kirk could choose or choose not to inflict on Cyrano Jones, if Kirk (somewhat arbitrarily) decides that the punishment should apply to him.

Spock calculates that the cleanup would take 17.9 years, which Jones is pressured to "choose voluntarily" instead, as both Kirk and Spock knew he would, because apparently cleaning up Tribbles for 18 years is more pleasant than the "rehabilitation colony" experience, either that or 2.1 years of freedom really means a lot to these people.

(Also, the "rehabilitation colony" is probably just jail, but Gene Roddenberry didn't like the idea of jail, so he quickly renamed it to something better, without deeply and fundamentally changing it. He probably didn't even have a clear idea as to how a rehab colony would work better in society than a penal colony, but he wishes it could, and it's his fiction, so in his world we can assume that it exists and it works.)
This reminds me of a bit in the Vorkosigan books, but there it was done satirically. This civilization doesn't have jail, it has court-mandated therapy, but that doesn't stop aggrieved neighbors from screaming about how the protagonist is going to "end up in therapy for the rest of their life!"

You're probably right that it's just a cosmetic change without much behind it, but it does work well as a sort of blemish on the Federation that even though they're much higher-minded about it, their prisons are still prisons.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,540
Gene definitely doesn't care about calling a penal colony such a thing. 1x10 'Dagger of the Mind'. Right at start you see containers labeled for a penal colony and then Kirk calls it such 30 seconds later (though when he contacts them they identify as a rehab colony lol).

After the intro Kirk says they more like resort colonies, but McCoy says a cage is a cage.
 
Apr 5, 2018
387
Just a few moments ago I finished a 6-month long DS9 first time watch. There are many emotions I'm feeling and thoughts in my head. But mostly I just keep thinking about how in season 3 I never would have guessed that Gul Dukat
would get a race-change operation to Bajoran and become Kai Winn’s lover.

Also
Kira ends up fighting for Cardassia!? What a fucking character arc!

edit: dunno if i need to use spoiler tags in this thread sorry.
 
Oct 27, 2017
206
I just finished my DS9 watch as well.

Where they went with Dukat and Sisko, it feels like it could have been better. Disappointing for two otherwise great characters. That would probably be my only real gripe, and it's a minor one at that. And maybe the Rom thing felt a little forced. I came around on Ezri Dax even if it still felt "too soon". Ezri was fine, probably an upgrade, never cared for Jadzia anyway.

Everything else felt like a natural, satisfying arc. Kira's arc throughout the show was especially fantastic. Garak great, Odo fine, Worf pretty good, Bashir had his moments. Quark was Quark. Nog was a joy. Kai Wynn and Weyoun were fun villains. Dumar had a surprisingly good arc.

Special shout-out to the every-man's every-man... Miles Edward O'Brien, always taking one for the team and being the galaxies punching bag over and over. Screw teaching, that man deserves an early retirement.

Did I forget anyone? I think that covers most of the major players.

Still can't believe I waited that long on DS9. Some Trek fan I am. Shame. Truly an overall great show.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,566
The English Wilderness
I just finished my DS9 watch as well.

Where they went with Dukat and Sisko, it feels like it could have been better. Disappointing for two otherwise great characters. That would probably be my only real gripe, and it's a minor one at that. And maybe the Rom thing felt a little forced. I came around on Ezri Dax even if it still felt "too soon". Ezri was fine, probably an upgrade, never cared for Jadzia anyway.

Everything else felt like a natural, satisfying arc. Kira's arc throughout the show was especially fantastic. Garak great, Odo fine, Worf pretty good, Bashir had his moments. Quark was Quark. Nog was a joy. Kai Wynn and Weyoun were fun villains. Dumar had a surprisingly good arc.

Special shout-out to the every-man's every-man... Miles Edward O'Brien, always taking one for the team and being the galaxies punching bag over and over. Screw teaching, that man deserves an early retirement.

Did I forget anyone? I think that covers most of the major players.

Still can't believe I waited that long on DS9. Some Trek fan I am. Shame. Truly an overall great show.
DS9 would have benefitted from an extra season, I think. That, or having the Dominion War end half a season earlier, so they could deal with some of the fallout. That way, they could have covered Bajor joining the Federation, which would've been more natural endpoint for the series. The Dukat/Winn/wraith stuff would have fit much better with that, too - it always felt out of place in the Dominion arc.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,499
I wonder if there was at some point a plan, or at least an expectation, of DS9 getting one of the TNG era film slots and some things were supposed to be done there, but had to be moved back into the series proper when things didn't pan out.

Or at least I'd like to think that was how we ended up with Insurrection which seemed like it was just cobbled together in about 5 minutes from a writing standpoint.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,289
Does anyone know if that urban legend that you can see Spock's face in the comet in DS9's opening is true or not? It's one of the things I've heard multiple times over the years but I've never looked into.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,795
The set and production design is so good on Disco that I'm legit excited to see updates to starships in the post-Voyager era
and that don't look like hotel rooms
Half of the problem with TNG's production design nowadays is the Roddenberry/Berman-mandated flat lighting. Any time they had alternate-reality/timeline opportunities to change up the lighting the sets were always the better for it. I mean, the bridge of the Ent-D in Yesterday's Enterprise is amazing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,750
USA

A new, original CG-animated Star Trek series that follows a group of lawless teens who discover a derelict Starfleet ship and use it to search for adventure, meaning and salvation is in the works from Nickelodeon and CBS Television Studios. The show, to be developed by Emmy Award winners Kevin and Dan Hageman (Trollhunters, The LEGO Movie), and overseen by Ramsey Naito, EVP, Animation Production and Development, Nickelodeon, will debut exclusively on Nickelodeon. The show will be the second upcoming animated Star Trek series, joining Star Trek: Lower Decks, which will stream on CBS All Access.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,403
The Lego Movie was "written by" Lord and Miller (the movie's two directors) as well as these two guys (which usually sort of means that there two guys were in charge of the bulk of the writing work, but they worked really close with the directors), while pretty much every episode of Trollhunters was "story by" these two guys, with "teleplay by" from other people (which basically means, as I understand it, that these two guys basically wrote the entire show, while additional writers re-wrote and refined and improved it).

That's an impressive resume, and I'm totally onboard for a cartoon from them about teenagers playing around with an old starship that they found.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,546
DS9 would have benefitted from an extra season, I think. That, or having the Dominion War end half a season earlier, so they could deal with some of the fallout. That way, they could have covered Bajor joining the Federation, which would've been more natural endpoint for the series. The Dukat/Winn/wraith stuff would have fit much better with that, too - it always felt out of place in the Dominion arc.
Yeah, it really could have used another season and it could have ended with Sisko returning.
I think one of my only real issues with the final season as it is is that they didn't have a lot of time to develop Ezri so she ends up getting a lot of focus and a lot of that time could have been used elsewhere, so being able to spread out her development over two seasons would have been ideal.
 
Oct 25, 2017
907
Is that counting animated shows? haha
Nope, all live action:

Arrow
Flash
Legends of Tomorrow
Supergirl
IZombie
Black Lightning
Titans
Doom Patrol
Krypton
Gotham
Lucifer
Preacher

Ordered to series: Y, Pennyworth, Swamp Thing, Stargirl, Watchmen plus several pilots including Batwoma which will definitely go to series.

Animated shows:
Teen Titans Go
Young Justice
DC Super Hero Girls

So Star Trek has a lomg way to go before it becomes too much. ;)
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,499
Yeah, it really could have used another season and it could have ended with Sisko returning.
I think one of my only real issues with the final season as it is is that they didn't have a lot of time to develop Ezri so she ends up getting a lot of focus and a lot of that time could have been used elsewhere, so being able to spread out her development over two seasons would have been ideal.
DS9 would have been better not wasting almost 3 full seasons at the start more than having an extra one at the end.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,795
Yeah, it really could have used another season and it could have ended with Sisko returning.
I think one of my only real issues with the final season as it is is that they didn't have a lot of time to develop Ezri so she ends up getting a lot of focus and a lot of that time could have been used elsewhere, so being able to spread out her development over two seasons would have been ideal.
I mean, there was nothing forcing them to bring the Dax character back at all, so it's not like they didn't force themselves into that position.